When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
You generally keep the item and wait till you are of high enough level to prepare it, then write it in.
No, there's no function for casting the spells from the item in the way you would with a staff or wand, they only are already scribed in the spellbook and so you'd still need a spell slot of the appropriate level to cast them. I suppose you could arguably prepare them still, but that would literally just be wasting a preparation slot if you don't have a spell slot to cast it with.
When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
You generally keep the item and wait till you are of high enough level to prepare it, then write it in.
While this may be generally true of sort generic spellbook loot items that only have the use of being a repository for new spells for a wizard, these magic items like the fulminating treatise can be used by a wizard as a spellbook directly. There is still a relevant rule about preparing spells:
You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
And still a rule about casting spells for which you have slots. I don't see any wizard features (on a quick glance) that allow you to cast out of your spellbook without preparing the spell.
There is some question in my mind whether a caster with 6th level spell slots could use the feature of the fulminating treatise to prepare a spell of higher level than they'd usually be able to prepare as just a wizard. For example, could a wizard 3/ cleric 8 use the spell book's feature to prepare contingency?
That might be up to the DM, but since the spellbook doesn't say anything about the level of prepared spells, I feel like the default assumption should be that the regular rules for preparations still apply: a wizard 3 would only be able to trade for the 1st and 2nd level spells in the book.
There is some question in my mind whether a caster with 6th level spell slots could use the feature of the fulminating treatise to prepare a spell of higher level than they'd usually be able to prepare as just a wizard. For example, could a wizard 3/ cleric 8 use the spell book's feature to prepare contingency?
That might be up to the DM, but since the spellbook doesn't say anything about the level of prepared spells, I feel like the default assumption should be that the regular rules for preparations still apply: a wizard 3 would only be able to trade for the 1st and 2nd level spells in the book.
Yeah, it’s not explicit in any wording, but I’d call RAI that the rule about preparation in multiclass still applies.
Given the FT is attuneable by wizards it would seem that only the wizards class abilities limit the prepared spell list, and charges can be used to “hot swap” only evoc school spells you can normally prepare.
Given the FT is attuneable by wizards it would seem that only the wizards class abilities limit the prepared spell list, and charges can be used to “hot swap” only evoc school spells you can normally prepare.
That's not how any of the rules work.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
There is some question in my mind whether a caster with 6th level spell slots could use the feature of the fulminating treatise to prepare a spell of higher level than they'd usually be able to prepare as just a wizard. For example, could a wizard 3/ cleric 8 use the spell book's feature to prepare contingency?
That might be up to the DM, but since the spellbook doesn't say anything about the level of prepared spells, I feel like the default assumption should be that the regular rules for preparations still apply: a wizard 3 would only be able to trade for the 1st and 2nd level spells in the book.
Yeah, it’s not explicit in any wording, but I’d call RAI that the rule about preparation in multiclass still applies.
The treatise allows you to swap out a prepared spell for one of the spells within it, and this function is not gated by any spellcasting features you might want to misattribute here.
If they had intended it to be gated by those rules they'd have made some reference to wizard level, or known spells level, or anything whatsoever to suggest they wanted it to be restricted in this way. They didn't. It isn't.
It is a magic item. The effective value of letting a 5th+ character hotswap out a fireball is the same whether that is a full wizard or a wizard/x multiclass who still happens to have 3rd level slots. That's the intention. To do exactly what the item says it can do.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
There is some question in my mind whether a caster with 6th level spell slots could use the feature of the fulminating treatise to prepare a spell of higher level than they'd usually be able to prepare as just a wizard. For example, could a wizard 3/ cleric 8 use the spell book's feature to prepare contingency?
That might be up to the DM, but since the spellbook doesn't say anything about the level of prepared spells, I feel like the default assumption should be that the regular rules for preparations still apply: a wizard 3 would only be able to trade for the 1st and 2nd level spells in the book.
Yeah, it’s not explicit in any wording, but I’d call RAI that the rule about preparation in multiclass still applies.
The treatise allows you to swap out a prepared spell for one of the spells within it, and this function is not gated by any spellcasting features you might want to misattribute here.
If they had intended it to be gated by those rules they'd have made some reference to wizard level, or known spells level, or anything whatsoever to suggest they wanted it to be restricted in this way. They didn't. It isn't.
It is a magic item. The effective value of letting a 5th+ character hotswap out a fireball is the same whether that is a full wizard or a wizard/x multiclass who still happens to have 3rd level slots. That's the intention. To do exactly what the item says it can do.
Right, because they couldn’t possibly have overlooked a niche interaction between a magic item and the nuances of multiclassing.
There is some question in my mind whether a caster with 6th level spell slots could use the feature of the fulminating treatise to prepare a spell of higher level than they'd usually be able to prepare as just a wizard. For example, could a wizard 3/ cleric 8 use the spell book's feature to prepare contingency?
That might be up to the DM, but since the spellbook doesn't say anything about the level of prepared spells, I feel like the default assumption should be that the regular rules for preparations still apply: a wizard 3 would only be able to trade for the 1st and 2nd level spells in the book.
Yeah, it’s not explicit in any wording, but I’d call RAI that the rule about preparation in multiclass still applies.
The treatise allows you to swap out a prepared spell for one of the spells within it, and this function is not gated by any spellcasting features you might want to misattribute here.
If they had intended it to be gated by those rules they'd have made some reference to wizard level, or known spells level, or anything whatsoever to suggest they wanted it to be restricted in this way. They didn't. It isn't.
It is a magic item. The effective value of letting a 5th+ character hotswap out a fireball is the same whether that is a full wizard or a wizard/x multiclass who still happens to have 3rd level slots. That's the intention. To do exactly what the item says it can do.
Right, because they couldn’t possibly have overlooked a niche interaction between a magic item and the nuances of multiclassing.
It has never been erratad. If they had overlooked it that's what they do. Until then you sorta have to just use the published rules text. Or go homebrew your own.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
There is some question in my mind whether a caster with 6th level spell slots could use the feature of the fulminating treatise to prepare a spell of higher level than they'd usually be able to prepare as just a wizard. For example, could a wizard 3/ cleric 8 use the spell book's feature to prepare contingency?
That might be up to the DM, but since the spellbook doesn't say anything about the level of prepared spells, I feel like the default assumption should be that the regular rules for preparations still apply: a wizard 3 would only be able to trade for the 1st and 2nd level spells in the book.
Yeah, it’s not explicit in any wording, but I’d call RAI that the rule about preparation in multiclass still applies.
The treatise allows you to swap out a prepared spell for one of the spells within it, and this function is not gated by any spellcasting features you might want to misattribute here.
If they had intended it to be gated by those rules they'd have made some reference to wizard level, or known spells level, or anything whatsoever to suggest they wanted it to be restricted in this way. They didn't. It isn't.
It is a magic item. The effective value of letting a 5th+ character hotswap out a fireball is the same whether that is a full wizard or a wizard/x multiclass who still happens to have 3rd level slots. That's the intention. To do exactly what the item says it can do.
Right, because they couldn’t possibly have overlooked a niche interaction between a magic item and the nuances of multiclassing.
It has never been erratad. If they had overlooked it that's what they do. Until then you sorta have to just use the published rules text. Or go homebrew your own.
Let’s see:
FULMINATING TREATISE Wondrous item, rare (requires attunement by a wizard) This thick, scorched spellbook reeks of smoke and ozone, and sparks of energy crackles along the edges of its pages. When found, the book contains the following spells: contingency, fireball, gust of wind, Leomund's tiny hut, magic missile, thun derwave, and wall offorce. It functions as a spell book for you. While you are holding the book, you can use it as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells. The book has 3 charges, and it regains 1d3 expended charges daily at dawn. You can use the charges in the following ways while holding it: • If you spend 1 minute studying the book, you can expend 1 charge to replace one ofyour prepared wizard spells with a different spell in the book. The new spell must be of the evocation school. • When one creature you can see takes damage from an evocation spell you cast, you can use your reaction and expend 1 charge to deal an extra 2d6 force damage to the creature and knock the crea ture prone if it is Large or smaller.
Fairly certain the part in parentheses qualifies as a prerequisite for full use of item, and considers the multiclassing rules as part of the “hot swap” feature granted to ONLY the wizard partition of any multiclassed character.
I can see letting them cast it too. A staff of fire would let a level 3 wizard cast a 4th level spell. At least with this item, you still need to have the slot to cast it and use the item charge to swap it.
I can see letting them cast it too. A staff of fire would let a level 3 wizard cast a 4th level spell. At least with this item, you still need to have the slot to cast it and use the item charge to swap it.
Ask yourself this question, does the book allow a charge to be used to cast the spell directly from the book?
items like staff of fire are essentially rechargeable spell scrolls, the use of charge in exchange to cast a spell you might not normally have the ability to use.
I asked myself that question. Then I asked myself what the question had to do with what I said. I had no answer to the second question.
Each item does what it says, right? One allows you to use charges to cast spells. One allows you to use charges to exchange prepared spells. Both require a charge to do the thing.
I asked myself that question. Then I asked myself what the question had to do with what I said. I had no answer to the second question.
Each item does what it says, right? One allows you to use charges to cast spells. One allows you to use charges to exchange prepared spells. Both require a charge to do the thing.
Ok so, can a 3rd level wizard prepare a 4th level spell?
if the ability to prepare spells is limited to wizards by way of level, how can one “hot swap” and use a spell they can’t even prepare?
I asked myself that question. Then I asked myself what the question had to do with what I said. I had no answer to the second question.
Each item does what it says, right? One allows you to use charges to cast spells. One allows you to use charges to exchange prepared spells. Both require a charge to do the thing.
Ok so, can a 3rd level wizard prepare a 4th level spell?
if the ability to prepare spells is limited to wizards by way of level, how can one “hot swap” and use a spell they can’t even prepare?
Read what the item does again.
It doesn't tell you to "follow your class spellcasting rules to prepare on of the spells within it."
Does it? No.
It says: "replace one of your prepared wizard spells with a different spell in the book. The new spell must be of the evocation school."
You REPLACE one of your already prepared spells with a spell from the item. That's it. Is it one of the spells in the item? Yes? You replace it.
It does have one listed requirement. That the spell be evocation. Not "of a level of which you can prepare". No no. Just that the school needs to be evocation.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
That is the question. A third level wizard with a staff of fire can cast wall of fire. A third level wizard with 8 levels in cleric can upcast a magic missile to 6th level.
When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
You generally keep the item and wait till you are of high enough level to prepare it, then write it in.
While this may be generally true of sort generic spellbook loot items that only have the use of being a repository for new spells for a wizard, these magic items like the fulminating treatise can be used by a wizard as a spellbook directly. There is still a relevant rule about preparing spells:
You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
And still a rule about casting spells for which you have slots. I don't see any wizard features (on a quick glance) that allow you to cast out of your spellbook without preparing the spell.
There is one Wizard feature that allows this. Ritual Casting. It makes no mention of spell level or spell slot prerequisites however it only applies to spells with the ritual tag.
Ritual Casting You can cast a wizard spell as a ritual if that spell has the ritual tag and you have the spell in your spellbook. You don’t need to have the spell prepared.
In the specific case of the fulminating treatise this would be limited to Leomund's Tiny Hut as that's the only ritual spell mentioned in the item's description.
I asked myself that question. Then I asked myself what the question had to do with what I said. I had no answer to the second question.
Each item does what it says, right? One allows you to use charges to cast spells. One allows you to use charges to exchange prepared spells. Both require a charge to do the thing.
Ok so, can a 3rd level wizard prepare a 4th level spell?
if the ability to prepare spells is limited to wizards by way of level, how can one “hot swap” and use a spell they can’t even prepare?
Read what the item does again.
It doesn't tell you to "follow your class spellcasting rules to prepare on of the spells within it."
Does it? No.
It says: "replace one of your prepared wizard spells with a different spell in the book. The new spell must be of the evocation school."
You REPLACE one of your already prepared spells with a spell from the item. That's it. Is it one of the spells in the item? Yes? You replace it.
It does have one listed requirement. That the spell be evocation. Not "of a level of which you can prepare". No no. Just that the school needs to be evocation.
FULMINATING TREATISE Wondrous item, rare (requires attunement by a wizard), It functions as a spell book for you. While you are holding the book, you can use it as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells.
that alone imparts the restraining use of “hot swapping” to only prepared spells, ( the book literally becomes your favorite spell book, and can hold more than what is already available, by way of personal additions, so balance is maintained by limiting your ability to cast a spell you can’t yet prepare )
That is the question. A third level wizard with a staff of fire can cast wall of fire. A third level wizard with 8 levels in cleric can upcast a magic missile to 6th level.
and spend a charge to add 2d6 force damage per dart of MM, and knock prone. fair trade for a wizard that can only “hot swap” spells they can only prepare.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
If a player finds an item like a Fulminating treatise as a wizard at level 3, how would they, if at all able, be able to cast the higher level spells?
No. You must be high enough level.
You generally keep the item and wait till you are of high enough level to prepare it, then write it in.
No, there's no function for casting the spells from the item in the way you would with a staff or wand, they only are already scribed in the spellbook and so you'd still need a spell slot of the appropriate level to cast them. I suppose you could arguably prepare them still, but that would literally just be wasting a preparation slot if you don't have a spell slot to cast it with.
While this may be generally true of sort generic spellbook loot items that only have the use of being a repository for new spells for a wizard, these magic items like the fulminating treatise can be used by a wizard as a spellbook directly. There is still a relevant rule about preparing spells:
And still a rule about casting spells for which you have slots. I don't see any wizard features (on a quick glance) that allow you to cast out of your spellbook without preparing the spell.
There is some question in my mind whether a caster with 6th level spell slots could use the feature of the fulminating treatise to prepare a spell of higher level than they'd usually be able to prepare as just a wizard. For example, could a wizard 3/ cleric 8 use the spell book's feature to prepare contingency?
That might be up to the DM, but since the spellbook doesn't say anything about the level of prepared spells, I feel like the default assumption should be that the regular rules for preparations still apply: a wizard 3 would only be able to trade for the 1st and 2nd level spells in the book.
Yeah, it’s not explicit in any wording, but I’d call RAI that the rule about preparation in multiclass still applies.
Given the FT is attuneable by wizards it would seem that only the wizards class abilities limit the prepared spell list, and charges can be used to “hot swap” only evoc school spells you can normally prepare.
That's not how any of the rules work.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The treatise allows you to swap out a prepared spell for one of the spells within it, and this function is not gated by any spellcasting features you might want to misattribute here.
If they had intended it to be gated by those rules they'd have made some reference to wizard level, or known spells level, or anything whatsoever to suggest they wanted it to be restricted in this way. They didn't. It isn't.
It is a magic item. The effective value of letting a 5th+ character hotswap out a fireball is the same whether that is a full wizard or a wizard/x multiclass who still happens to have 3rd level slots. That's the intention. To do exactly what the item says it can do.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Right, because they couldn’t possibly have overlooked a niche interaction between a magic item and the nuances of multiclassing.
It has never been erratad. If they had overlooked it that's what they do. Until then you sorta have to just use the published rules text. Or go homebrew your own.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Let’s see:
FULMINATING TREATISE
Wondrous item, rare (requires attunement by a wizard)
This thick, scorched spellbook reeks of smoke and ozone, and sparks of energy crackles along the edges of its pages. When found, the book contains the following spells: contingency, fireball, gust of wind, Leomund's tiny hut, magic missile, thun derwave, and wall offorce. It functions as a spell book for you.
While you are holding the book, you can use it as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells.
The book has 3 charges, and it regains 1d3 expended charges daily at dawn. You can use the charges in the following ways while holding it:
• If you spend 1 minute studying the book, you can expend 1 charge to replace one ofyour prepared wizard spells with a different spell in the book. The new spell must be of the evocation school.
• When one creature you can see takes damage from an evocation spell you cast, you can use your reaction and expend 1 charge to deal an extra 2d6 force damage to the creature and knock the crea ture prone if it is Large or smaller.
Fairly certain the part in parentheses qualifies as a prerequisite for full use of item, and considers the multiclassing rules as part of the “hot swap” feature granted to ONLY the wizard partition of any multiclassed character.
I can see letting them cast it too. A staff of fire would let a level 3 wizard cast a 4th level spell. At least with this item, you still need to have the slot to cast it and use the item charge to swap it.
Ask yourself this question, does the book allow a charge to be used to cast the spell directly from the book?
items like staff of fire are essentially rechargeable spell scrolls, the use of charge in exchange to cast a spell you might not normally have the ability to use.
I asked myself that question. Then I asked myself what the question had to do with what I said. I had no answer to the second question.
Each item does what it says, right? One allows you to use charges to cast spells. One allows you to use charges to exchange prepared spells. Both require a charge to do the thing.
Ok so, can a 3rd level wizard prepare a 4th level spell?
if the ability to prepare spells is limited to wizards by way of level, how can one “hot swap” and use a spell they can’t even prepare?
Read what the item does again.
It doesn't tell you to "follow your class spellcasting rules to prepare on of the spells within it."
Does it? No.
It says: "replace one of your prepared wizard spells with a different spell in the book. The new spell must be of the evocation school."
You REPLACE one of your already prepared spells with a spell from the item. That's it. Is it one of the spells in the item? Yes? You replace it.
It does have one listed requirement. That the spell be evocation. Not "of a level of which you can prepare". No no. Just that the school needs to be evocation.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
That is the question. A third level wizard with a staff of fire can cast wall of fire. A third level wizard with 8 levels in cleric can upcast a magic missile to 6th level.
There is one Wizard feature that allows this. Ritual Casting. It makes no mention of spell level or spell slot prerequisites however it only applies to spells with the ritual tag.
In the specific case of the fulminating treatise this would be limited to Leomund's Tiny Hut as that's the only ritual spell mentioned in the item's description.
FULMINATING TREATISE
Wondrous item, rare (requires attunement by a wizard), It functions as a spell book for you.
While you are holding the book, you can use it as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells.
that alone imparts the restraining use of “hot swapping” to only prepared spells, ( the book literally becomes your favorite spell book, and can hold more than what is already available, by way of personal additions, so balance is maintained by limiting your ability to cast a spell you can’t yet prepare )
and spend a charge to add 2d6 force damage per dart of MM, and knock prone. fair trade for a wizard that can only “hot swap” spells they can only prepare.