While the trigger of the feature and the spell are very similar (attack successful hit) the triggering event is distinct seperate event; thus nor simultaneous even though both interrupt the same attack roll. One is an attack roll vs Rune Knight's AC and the other is an attack vs other character AC. The proof that it's not simultaneous is that the caster effectively pass on the opportunity to use it in the first trigger event and choose to react on the second trigger event, this is because each triggering event are idstinct event, happening in succession that can be reacted to or not. The action happen in this chronology;
- Fighter Attack action 1d20 (20) vs Rune Knight AC = Critical Hit
- No reaction from Bard
- Rune Knight use Cloud Rune as reaction to redirect the attack against another character
- 1d20(20) vs other character AC = Critical Hit
- Bard use silvery barbs if the attack is successful against other character
The paxadox is usually when Reaction Timing explicitely happen before the trigger finishes, in that perspective, Cloud Rune alone is paradoxial since you must be hit to use it, and then choose another target making you not hit anymore thus invalidating the triggering event, just like shield does.
Reaction Timing: Certain game features let you take a special action, called a reaction, in response to an event. Making opportunity attacks and casting the shield spell are two typical uses of reactions. If you’re unsure when a reaction occurs in relation to its trigger, here’s the rule: the reaction happens after its trigger, unless the description of the reaction explicitly says otherwise. Once you take a reaction, you can’t take another one until the start of your next turn.
But there's no reason to think simultaneity applies, because the reactions aren't simultaneous. Barbs is only used because the cloud rune was used, so the cloud rune happened first. In the fiction, the attacker thought they were striking the enemy, there was a puff of mist, and it was revealed that their target was actually their friend, but the wizard reacted fast enough to cast a spell to make them miss. In the mechanics, an attack roll was made, cloud rune was used as a reaction to the attack roll, changing its target, then silvery barbs was used as a reaction to the same attack roll.
I'm still not 100 percent sure I would rule like this in my game, but it's a valid interpretation, and I'm having a hard time articulating why I don't like the ruling other than "it doesn't seem like silvery barbs should work like that"
The best I've been able to come up as an example of why it feels a bit like metagaming/retconning would be a similar situation where the party is fighting, say, a necromancer wizard. The necromancer hits with an arcane burst, the bard declines to silvery barbs it, but then the enemy wizard uses its Grim Harvest reaction to regain hit points and the bard then says, "Oh, in that case I'll barbs it"
It's not a perfect analogy by any means, but it just feels like if you don't barbs the attack roll right after it happens, you missed your chance. Once other reactions start getting added on to affect the outcome, it's too late
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Generally speaking, the only reaction that gets "triggered" in 5e is a Readied action. Spells can have a specific trigger, but it's still a conscious decision to cast them. They don't happen automatically
Most reaction are triggerred since ''a reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind'', so it may be triggered when the trigger occur, which is the event or circumstance where you can choose to take it or not. Even the Ready Action you don't have to take your reaction and can ignore the trigger. So are most spells and features. Very few exception exist, such as Dissonant Whispers which says you must take the reaction.
Ready Action: When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger.
Generally speaking, the only reaction that gets "triggered" in 5e is a Readied action. Spells can have a specific trigger, but it's still a conscious decision to cast them. They don't happen automatically
Most reaction are triggerred since ''a reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind'', so it may be triggered when the trigger occur, which is the event or circumstance where you can choose to take it or not. Even the Ready Action you don't have to take your reaction and can ignore the trigger. So are most spells and features. Very few exception exist, such as Dissonant Whispers which says you must take the reaction.
Ready Action: When the trigger occurs, you can either take your reaction right after the trigger finishes or ignore the trigger.
By "triggered" I meant happens automatically, without the player's input, which is the only time you might hit an instance of simultaneous effects that need to be sorted through. Shield doesn't automatically get cast whenever a wizard is hit; they need to choose to use it in that moment, whereas a Readied Action just goes off if the condition is met
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By "triggered" I meant happens automatically, without the player's input, which is the only time you might hit an instance of simultaneous effects that need to be sorted through. Shield doesn't automatically get cast whenever a wizard is hit; they need to choose to use it in that moment, whereas a Readied Action just goes off if the condition is met
Ready Action still need the player's input or the reaction won't be taken though so it's not automatic.
But there's no reason to think simultaneity applies, because the reactions aren't simultaneous. Barbs is only used because the cloud rune was used, so the cloud rune happened first. In the fiction, the attacker thought they were striking the enemy, there was a puff of mist, and it was revealed that their target was actually their friend, but the wizard reacted fast enough to cast a spell to make them miss. In the mechanics, an attack roll was made, cloud rune was used as a reaction to the attack roll, changing its target, then silvery barbs was used as a reaction to the same attack roll.
I'm still not 100 percent sure I would rule like this in my game, but it's a valid interpretation, and I'm having a hard time articulating why I don't like the ruling other than "it doesn't seem like silvery barbs should work like that"
The best I've been able to come up as an example of why it feels a bit like metagaming/retconning would be a similar situation where the party is fighting, say, a necromancer wizard. The necromancer hits with an arcane burst, the bard declines to silvery barbs it, but then the enemy wizard uses its Grim Harvest reaction to regain hit points and the bard then says, "Oh, in that case I'll barbs it"
That's a different situation, because once the necromancer kills something, the hit roll is clearly not still in play. (Really, once you're rolling damage or making saves, the hit roll is done with.)
It's not a perfect analogy by any means, but it just feels like if you don't barbs the attack roll right after it happens, you missed your chance. Once other reactions start getting added on to affect the outcome, it's too late
That implies that there can only be one reaction to s specific reaction trigger, which could lead to situations where the players can lock out the enemy's reaction. (No idea how off the top of my head, but there's no way it can't be done.)
Are any of the following reaction scenarios legit in your eyes?
1: Enemy X casts. Player A counterspells. Enemy Y counterspells the counterspell. Player B counterspells.
2: Enemy X casts. Player A counterspells, but it fails due to level mismatch. Player B counterspells.
3: Enemy X casts. Player A counterspells, but fails or is countered. Player B Silvery Barbs the attack roll.
4: Player A casts. Enemy X counterspells, but it fails or is countered. Enemy X saves. Player B Silvery Barbs the save.
5: Monk A is hit with a ranged attack. Interception fighter B reduces the damage, but not completely. Monk A uses deflect missiles on the same attack.
Edit: I suppose it could instead imply everyone gets one opportunity to react, without knowing what future reactors may do. That forces a formal sequencing system, which I'm also not a fan of.
By "triggered" I meant happens automatically, without the player's input, which is the only time you might hit an instance of simultaneous effects that need to be sorted through. Shield doesn't automatically get cast whenever a wizard is hit; they need to choose to use it in that moment, whereas a Readied Action just goes off if the condition is met
Ready Action still need the player's input or the reaction won't be taken though so it's not automatic.
It's an opt-out. Once you've Readied the Action, it happens when it gets triggered unless you specifically decide not to go through with it
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I disagree, because the Cloud Rune makes a new target of the attack. So there is a new contest to see if the attack hits. Maybe the new target has a higher AC and the attack misses? Or (more likely) lower or equal AC and the attack hits. That is still making a new attack with the same D20 roll. And Silvery Barbs is triggered off of a successful attack/check/save, NOT off of a successful D20 roll. So there is a new attack that can be successful or not, so there is another opportunity to use SB.
That's an interesting way of looking at it. If silvery barbs is reacting to the successful hit, then everything building up to that doesn't really matter anyway.
Let's see if I understand what you are saying. When the fighter hits the rune knight, it creates a trigger for the cloud rune and also a trigger for silvery barbs because the attack roll was a hit. There is no reason for the bard to react to their ally successfully hitting the enemy, so no silvery barbs would be cast. Then when the rune knight redirects the hit, if the hit is successful against the new target, it creates a new trigger for silvery barbs, which the bard would be inclined to react to.
Just one more opinion ... but no it doesn't work. Silvery barbs can not be forced to make a re-roll in this case.
Why? :)
From Silvery barbs: "which you take when a creature you can see within 60 feet of yourself succeeds on an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw"
Silvery barbs is triggered when the creature succeeds on an attack roll. This occurs when the attack hits its initial target.
Why doesn't it work on cloud rune? ... because there is NO attack roll.
Cloud rune: "In addition, when you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you is hit by an attack roll, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and choose a different creature within 30 feet of you, other than the attacker. The chosen creature becomes the target of the attack, using the same roll."
The redirection does not involve a new attack roll ... it uses the same one that has already been resolved. The original attacker succeeded on their attack roll already which could have triggered Silvery Barbs (being an ally doesn't matter). Cloud rune can not be triggered on a miss, so the attacker has already succeeded on their attack roll and silvery barbs can not be triggered on a creature targeted without making an attack roll. The redirection from Cloud Rune does not require a new attack roll and so isn't a valid target for Silvery Barbs.
Personally ... that is how I would read it ... and would rule that Silvery Barbs could not be used to force the original attacker to re-roll an attack that has already been resolved.
Just one more opinion ... but no it doesn't work. Silvery barbs can not be forced to make a re-roll in this case.
Why? :)
From Silvery barbs: "which you take when a creature you can see within 60 feet of yourself succeeds on an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw"
Silvery barbs is triggered when the creature succeeds on an attack roll. This occurs when the attack hits its initial target.
Why doesn't it work on cloud rune? ... because there is NO attack roll.
Cloud rune: "In addition, when you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you is hit by an attack roll, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and choose a different creature within 30 feet of you, other than the attacker. The chosen creature becomes the target of the attack, using the same roll."
The redirection does not involve a new attack roll ... it uses the same one that has already been resolved. The original attacker succeeded on their attack roll already which could have triggered Silvery Barbs (being an ally doesn't matter). Cloud rune can not be triggered on a miss, so the attacker has already succeeded on their attack roll and silvery barbs can not be triggered on a creature targeted without making an attack roll. The redirection from Cloud Rune does not require a new attack roll and so isn't a valid target for Silvery Barbs.
Personally ... that is how I would read it ... and would rule that Silvery Barbs could not be used to force the original attacker to re-roll an attack that has already been resolved.
Silvery Barbs doesn't specify new attack role. It specifies attack roll.
1. was an attack roll made? if yes move to 2.
2. did the attack roll succeed? If yes option to cast Silvery Barbs.
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I started playing D&D from the basic box set in 1979.
But there's no reason to think simultaneity applies, because the reactions aren't simultaneous. Barbs is only used because the cloud rune was used, so the cloud rune happened first. In the fiction, the attacker thought they were striking the enemy, there was a puff of mist, and it was revealed that their target was actually their friend, but the wizard reacted fast enough to cast a spell to make them miss. In the mechanics, an attack roll was made, cloud rune was used as a reaction to the attack roll, changing its target, then silvery barbs was used as a reaction to the same attack roll.
I'm still not 100 percent sure I would rule like this in my game, but it's a valid interpretation, and I'm having a hard time articulating why I don't like the ruling other than "it doesn't seem like silvery barbs should work like that"
The best I've been able to come up as an example of why it feels a bit like metagaming/retconning would be a similar situation where the party is fighting, say, a necromancer wizard. The necromancer hits with an arcane burst, the bard declines to silvery barbs it, but then the enemy wizard uses its Grim Harvest reaction to regain hit points and the bard then says, "Oh, in that case I'll barbs it"
That's a different situation, because once the necromancer kills something, the hit roll is clearly not still in play. (Really, once you're rolling damage or making saves, the hit roll is done with.)
It's different, yes, but I don't really see why rolling damage means "the hit is not still in play" but applying some other effect as a result of the hit -- the cloud rune, in this case -- means it is
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That's a different situation, because once the necromancer kills something, the hit roll is clearly not still in play. (Really, once you're rolling damage or making saves, the hit roll is done with.)
It's different, yes, but I don't really see why rolling damage means "the hit is not still in play" but applying some other effect as a result of the hit -- the cloud rune, in this case -- means it is
Because the hit has not been finally determined. If you cloud rune to a target with better AC, it can miss.
Edit: "Is hit by" sounds like it's finalized, but it isn't. See also shield, and likely numerous other effects. "Would be hit by" would be better, but among the unclear terms of art 5e uses that I'd change if I had that power, it's not even in the top ten. (It could also be argued that everything in the game has an unwritten "barring reactions" clause.)
That's a different situation, because once the necromancer kills something, the hit roll is clearly not still in play. (Really, once you're rolling damage or making saves, the hit roll is done with.)
It's different, yes, but I don't really see why rolling damage means "the hit is not still in play" but applying some other effect as a result of the hit -- the cloud rune, in this case -- means it is
Because the hit has not been finally determined.
The hit on the original target has been determined though. Otherwise, you couldn't use cloud rune
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That's a different situation, because once the necromancer kills something, the hit roll is clearly not still in play. (Really, once you're rolling damage or making saves, the hit roll is done with.)
It's different, yes, but I don't really see why rolling damage means "the hit is not still in play" but applying some other effect as a result of the hit -- the cloud rune, in this case -- means it is
Because the hit has not been finally determined.
The hit on the original target has been determined though. Otherwise, you couldn't use cloud rune
And what does cloud rune do? It makes the hit not a hit, so the hit hasn't been finalized; it can still be messed with by reactions, such as cloud rune, shield, and silvery barbs.
Unless you want to argue that there's a fundamental difference between "succeeds on an attack roll" and "is hit by an attack roll", they have the exact same timing. If you do want to argue that, go wild, but I can go full pedantic rules lawyer when I need to, and wouldn't dream of trying that one on.
According to Making An Attack struction and interactions with those reactions on the Fighter's attack, here's how i view it unfold:
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.
1. Choose a target. FIGHTER Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location.
2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll.
3. Resolve the attack. You make the attack roll. On a hit, REACTION: CLOUD RUNE
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.
1. Choose a target. RUNE KNIGHT Pick a target within 30 F..
2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll.
3. Resolve the attack. You USE SAME attack roll. On a hit, REACTION: SILVERY BARBS
If Hit: you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage.
That's a different situation, because once the necromancer kills something, the hit roll is clearly not still in play. (Really, once you're rolling damage or making saves, the hit roll is done with.)
It's different, yes, but I don't really see why rolling damage means "the hit is not still in play" but applying some other effect as a result of the hit -- the cloud rune, in this case -- means it is
Because the hit has not been finally determined.
The hit on the original target has been determined though. Otherwise, you couldn't use cloud rune
And what does cloud rune do? It makes the hit not a hit
No, that's not what it does. You are inserting language into the feature that does not exist
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I feel like a lot of this thread is people using the same word to mean different things
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According to Making An Attack struction and interactions with those reactions on the Fighter's attack, here's how i view it unfold:
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.
1. Choose a target. FIGHTER Pick a target within your attack's range: a creature, an object, or a location.
2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll.
3. Resolve the attack. You make the attack roll. On a hit, REACTION: CLOUD RUNE
Whether you're striking with a melee weapon, firing a weapon at range, or making an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has a simple structure.
1. Choose a target. RUNE KNIGHT Pick a target within 30 F..
2. Determine modifiers. The DM determines whether the target has cover and whether you have advantage or disadvantage against the target. In addition, spells, special abilities, and other effects can apply penalties or bonuses to your attack roll.
3. Resolve the attack. You USE SAME attack roll. On a hit, REACTION: SILVERY BARBS
If Hit: you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage.
If Miss: No damage.
You could just as easily argue that the cloud rune simply changes the original target choice though, and doesn't require going through all the steps again. In fact, that might be the more logical approach, since you don't determine advantage/disadvantage again on the new target -- no additional to-hit dice get rolled after using the rune. You simply remain on the 'Resolve the attack' step, just with a different AC input to determine resolution
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You could just as easily argue that the cloud rune simply changes the original target choice though, and doesn't require going through all the steps again. In fact, that might be the more logical approach, since you don't determine advantage/disadvantage again on the new target -- no additional to-hit dice get rolled after using the rune. You simply remain on the 'Resolve the attack' step, just with a different AC input to determine resolution
Yes but what that resolution determines is if the attack is successful or not. And that is exactly what Silvery Barbs triggers on.
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While the trigger of the feature and the spell are very similar (attack successful hit) the triggering event is distinct seperate event; thus nor simultaneous even though both interrupt the same attack roll. One is an attack roll vs Rune Knight's AC and the other is an attack vs other character AC. The proof that it's not simultaneous is that the caster effectively pass on the opportunity to use it in the first trigger event and choose to react on the second trigger event, this is because each triggering event are idstinct event, happening in succession that can be reacted to or not. The action happen in this chronology;
- Fighter Attack action 1d20 (20) vs Rune Knight AC = Critical Hit
- No reaction from Bard
- Rune Knight use Cloud Rune as reaction to redirect the attack against another character
- 1d20(20) vs other character AC = Critical Hit
- Bard use silvery barbs if the attack is successful against other character
The paxadox is usually when Reaction Timing explicitely happen before the trigger finishes, in that perspective, Cloud Rune alone is paradoxial since you must be hit to use it, and then choose another target making you not hit anymore thus invalidating the triggering event, just like shield does.
I'm still not 100 percent sure I would rule like this in my game, but it's a valid interpretation, and I'm having a hard time articulating why I don't like the ruling other than "it doesn't seem like silvery barbs should work like that"
The best I've been able to come up as an example of why it feels a bit like metagaming/retconning would be a similar situation where the party is fighting, say, a necromancer wizard. The necromancer hits with an arcane burst, the bard declines to silvery barbs it, but then the enemy wizard uses its Grim Harvest reaction to regain hit points and the bard then says, "Oh, in that case I'll barbs it"
It's not a perfect analogy by any means, but it just feels like if you don't barbs the attack roll right after it happens, you missed your chance. Once other reactions start getting added on to affect the outcome, it's too late
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Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Most reaction are triggerred since ''a reaction is an instant response to a trigger of some kind'', so it may be triggered when the trigger occur, which is the event or circumstance where you can choose to take it or not. Even the Ready Action you don't have to take your reaction and can ignore the trigger. So are most spells and features. Very few exception exist, such as Dissonant Whispers which says you must take the reaction.
By "triggered" I meant happens automatically, without the player's input, which is the only time you might hit an instance of simultaneous effects that need to be sorted through. Shield doesn't automatically get cast whenever a wizard is hit; they need to choose to use it in that moment, whereas a Readied Action just goes off if the condition is met
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Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
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Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ready Action still need the player's input or the reaction won't be taken though so it's not automatic.
That's a different situation, because once the necromancer kills something, the hit roll is clearly not still in play. (Really, once you're rolling damage or making saves, the hit roll is done with.)
That implies that there can only be one reaction to s specific reaction trigger, which could lead to situations where the players can lock out the enemy's reaction. (No idea how off the top of my head, but there's no way it can't be done.)
Are any of the following reaction scenarios legit in your eyes?
1: Enemy X casts. Player A counterspells. Enemy Y counterspells the counterspell. Player B counterspells.
2: Enemy X casts. Player A counterspells, but it fails due to level mismatch. Player B counterspells.
3: Enemy X casts. Player A counterspells, but fails or is countered. Player B Silvery Barbs the attack roll.
4: Player A casts. Enemy X counterspells, but it fails or is countered. Enemy X saves. Player B Silvery Barbs the save.
5: Monk A is hit with a ranged attack. Interception fighter B reduces the damage, but not completely. Monk A uses deflect missiles on the same attack.
Edit: I suppose it could instead imply everyone gets one opportunity to react, without knowing what future reactors may do. That forces a formal sequencing system, which I'm also not a fan of.
It's an opt-out. Once you've Readied the Action, it happens when it gets triggered unless you specifically decide not to go through with it
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That's an interesting way of looking at it. If silvery barbs is reacting to the successful hit, then everything building up to that doesn't really matter anyway.
Let's see if I understand what you are saying. When the fighter hits the rune knight, it creates a trigger for the cloud rune and also a trigger for silvery barbs because the attack roll was a hit. There is no reason for the bard to react to their ally successfully hitting the enemy, so no silvery barbs would be cast. Then when the rune knight redirects the hit, if the hit is successful against the new target, it creates a new trigger for silvery barbs, which the bard would be inclined to react to.
Am I reading that right?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Just one more opinion ... but no it doesn't work. Silvery barbs can not be forced to make a re-roll in this case.
Why? :)
From Silvery barbs: "which you take when a creature you can see within 60 feet of yourself succeeds on an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw"
Silvery barbs is triggered when the creature succeeds on an attack roll. This occurs when the attack hits its initial target.
Why doesn't it work on cloud rune? ... because there is NO attack roll.
Cloud rune: "In addition, when you or a creature you can see within 30 feet of you is hit by an attack roll, you can use your reaction to invoke the rune and choose a different creature within 30 feet of you, other than the attacker. The chosen creature becomes the target of the attack, using the same roll."
The redirection does not involve a new attack roll ... it uses the same one that has already been resolved. The original attacker succeeded on their attack roll already which could have triggered Silvery Barbs (being an ally doesn't matter). Cloud rune can not be triggered on a miss, so the attacker has already succeeded on their attack roll and silvery barbs can not be triggered on a creature targeted without making an attack roll. The redirection from Cloud Rune does not require a new attack roll and so isn't a valid target for Silvery Barbs.
Personally ... that is how I would read it ... and would rule that Silvery Barbs could not be used to force the original attacker to re-roll an attack that has already been resolved.
Silvery Barbs doesn't specify new attack role. It specifies attack roll.
1. was an attack roll made? if yes move to 2.
2. did the attack roll succeed? If yes option to cast Silvery Barbs.
I started playing D&D from the basic box set in 1979.
It's different, yes, but I don't really see why rolling damage means "the hit is not still in play" but applying some other effect as a result of the hit -- the cloud rune, in this case -- means it is
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Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Because the hit has not been finally determined. If you cloud rune to a target with better AC, it can miss.
Edit: "Is hit by" sounds like it's finalized, but it isn't. See also shield, and likely numerous other effects. "Would be hit by" would be better, but among the unclear terms of art 5e uses that I'd change if I had that power, it's not even in the top ten. (It could also be argued that everything in the game has an unwritten "barring reactions" clause.)
The hit on the original target has been determined though. Otherwise, you couldn't use cloud rune
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
And what does cloud rune do? It makes the hit not a hit, so the hit hasn't been finalized; it can still be messed with by reactions, such as cloud rune, shield, and silvery barbs.
Unless you want to argue that there's a fundamental difference between "succeeds on an attack roll" and "is hit by an attack roll", they have the exact same timing. If you do want to argue that, go wild, but I can go full pedantic rules lawyer when I need to, and wouldn't dream of trying that one on.
According to Making An Attack struction and interactions with those reactions on the Fighter's attack, here's how i view it unfold:
No, that's not what it does. You are inserting language into the feature that does not exist
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I feel like a lot of this thread is people using the same word to mean different things
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You could just as easily argue that the cloud rune simply changes the original target choice though, and doesn't require going through all the steps again. In fact, that might be the more logical approach, since you don't determine advantage/disadvantage again on the new target -- no additional to-hit dice get rolled after using the rune. You simply remain on the 'Resolve the attack' step, just with a different AC input to determine resolution
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yes but what that resolution determines is if the attack is successful or not. And that is exactly what Silvery Barbs triggers on.