During an encounter I had a player attempt to cast wall of force as a 1 foot radius sphere centered on an enemy, with the intent of choosing "inside" the sphere as the direction the creature is pushed.
Threw me for a loop, and I'm curious as to how other DM's would handle this situation?
If for whatever reason there isn’t enough room for a creature to be pushed to one side of wall, I would just say it’s not a valid side of the wall to choose.
Yeah, especially if they're trying for an "instant kill" move, you are entirely free to and probably should nix it. There is nothing in the spell description that describes how one could play trash compactor with the spell, ergo by RAW one cannot use the spell in such a fashion.
I ended up having the player roll an ability check using their casting modifier against the foes dexterity save to see if they could avoid being sucked into the death sphere. I based it on the enemy having to be physically manipulated into a contorted form, rather than simply being displaced.
I would tend to rule that it doesn't work that way.
The 7th level Forcecage has the following wording:
"When you cast the spell, any creature that is completely inside the cage's area is trapped. Creatures only partially within the area, or those too large to fit inside the area, are pushed away from the center of the area until they are completely outside the area."
I don't see why the level 5 Wall of Force could be used as an instant death trap or even used to automatically trap huge and larger creatures while the level 7 forcecage has wording that specifically prevents such a use. I'd probably consider it an oversight in the spell description and use the Forcecage wording.
A similar idea is to cast wall of force through the area of a creature standing next to a stone wall. Can you place the wall of force 2" away from the stone wall and force the creature to be compressed into the 2" wide gap? Again, I'd rule no since I don't think that is within the range of what a wall of force spell should do.
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Doing a bit more research ... it would appear that the usage of having the wall of force pass through an actual creature would be prevented by the total cover rules.
"A spell’s description specifies its area of effect, which typically has one of five different shapes: cone, cube, cylinder, line, or sphere. Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell’s energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin. Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object.
A spell’s effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn’t included in the spell’s area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover, as explained in chapter 9."
The wall of force spell description specifies an area of effect of 10' panels or a dome/sphere of radius up to 10'. However, the effect of total cover on area of effect is to prevent the spell effect from extending into the total cover.
Basically, when the wall of force hits something solid that the caster can't see through, the spell effect stops. This would allow the caster to use wall of force to block off a corridor without requiring the wall of force to extend through whatever is beyond the walls of the corridor. Areas beyond the corridor have total cover and the spell effect stops at that point. Similarly, trying to place a wall of force that actually intersects a creature results in the regions that would be inside the creature having total cover so the wall of force would stop and the creature would be unaffected.
Note that wall of force states "If the wall cuts through a creature's space" ... it doesn't specify what happens if the wall passes through a creature itself because the spell would be prevented from doing that due to the interior of the body being behind total cover. The definition of "creature's space" from the PHB is "A creature’s space is the area in feet that it effectively controls in combat, not an expression of its physical dimensions." So this would not allow a caster to place a wall of force that passes through a creature.
Anyway, the use of spell area of effect and total cover rules is justified but not nearly as easy or clear for someone just reading the spell - it would have been better to include text like the Forcecage spell contains.
During an encounter I had a player attempt to cast wall of force as a 1 foot radius sphere centered on an enemy, with the intent of choosing "inside" the sphere as the direction the creature is pushed.
Threw me for a loop, and I'm curious as to how other DM's would handle this situation?
Thanks in advance!
You can create a Wall of Force shaped in an hemispherical dome or a sphere with a radius of up to 10 feet, trapping inside it a creature of up to Large size or smaller.
For Huge size or larger, since it's pushed to one side of the wall (your choice which side) if the wall cuts through a creature's space when it appears but that it can't fit completely inside it, i would rule it's pushed outside instead..
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Ok DM question here!
During an encounter I had a player attempt to cast wall of force as a 1 foot radius sphere centered on an enemy, with the intent of choosing "inside" the sphere as the direction the creature is pushed.
Threw me for a loop, and I'm curious as to how other DM's would handle this situation?
Thanks in advance!
If for whatever reason there isn’t enough room for a creature to be pushed to one side of wall, I would just say it’s not a valid side of the wall to choose.
Yeah, especially if they're trying for an "instant kill" move, you are entirely free to and probably should nix it. There is nothing in the spell description that describes how one could play trash compactor with the spell, ergo by RAW one cannot use the spell in such a fashion.
Thanks!
I ended up having the player roll an ability check using their casting modifier against the foes dexterity save to see if they could avoid being sucked into the death sphere. I based it on the enemy having to be physically manipulated into a contorted form, rather than simply being displaced.
My basic rule of thumb:
A spell that does not list damage does not do more damage than a spell of the same level that lists damage.
I would tend to rule that it doesn't work that way.
The 7th level Forcecage has the following wording:
"When you cast the spell, any creature that is completely inside the cage's area is trapped. Creatures only partially within the area, or those too large to fit inside the area, are pushed away from the center of the area until they are completely outside the area."
I don't see why the level 5 Wall of Force could be used as an instant death trap or even used to automatically trap huge and larger creatures while the level 7 forcecage has wording that specifically prevents such a use. I'd probably consider it an oversight in the spell description and use the Forcecage wording.
A similar idea is to cast wall of force through the area of a creature standing next to a stone wall. Can you place the wall of force 2" away from the stone wall and force the creature to be compressed into the 2" wide gap? Again, I'd rule no since I don't think that is within the range of what a wall of force spell should do.
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Doing a bit more research ... it would appear that the usage of having the wall of force pass through an actual creature would be prevented by the total cover rules.
"A spell’s description specifies its area of effect, which typically has one of five different shapes: cone, cube, cylinder, line, or sphere. Every area of effect has a point of origin, a location from which the spell’s energy erupts. The rules for each shape specify how you position its point of origin. Typically, a point of origin is a point in space, but some spells have an area whose origin is a creature or an object.
A spell’s effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn’t included in the spell’s area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover, as explained in chapter 9."
The wall of force spell description specifies an area of effect of 10' panels or a dome/sphere of radius up to 10'. However, the effect of total cover on area of effect is to prevent the spell effect from extending into the total cover.
Basically, when the wall of force hits something solid that the caster can't see through, the spell effect stops. This would allow the caster to use wall of force to block off a corridor without requiring the wall of force to extend through whatever is beyond the walls of the corridor. Areas beyond the corridor have total cover and the spell effect stops at that point. Similarly, trying to place a wall of force that actually intersects a creature results in the regions that would be inside the creature having total cover so the wall of force would stop and the creature would be unaffected.
Note that wall of force states "If the wall cuts through a creature's space" ... it doesn't specify what happens if the wall passes through a creature itself because the spell would be prevented from doing that due to the interior of the body being behind total cover. The definition of "creature's space" from the PHB is "A creature’s space is the area in feet that it effectively controls in combat, not an expression of its physical dimensions." So this would not allow a caster to place a wall of force that passes through a creature.
Anyway, the use of spell area of effect and total cover rules is justified but not nearly as easy or clear for someone just reading the spell - it would have been better to include text like the Forcecage spell contains.
You can create a Wall of Force shaped in an hemispherical dome or a sphere with a radius of up to 10 feet, trapping inside it a creature of up to Large size or smaller.
For Huge size or larger, since it's pushed to one side of the wall (your choice which side) if the wall cuts through a creature's space when it appears but that it can't fit completely inside it, i would rule it's pushed outside instead..