I'm thinking of adding one level of Wizard to my second-level Paladin (for a Familiar's combat advantage + delivering touch spells, its other uses/flavor, plus the extra spells in general).
I've found a list of things you have to pay attention to. Can anyone tell me if there are other things I'll have to consider?
Ability Score Improvements (ASI) or Feats: These are achieved through class level progression and not character level. You should weigh the option of reaching level 4 first vs taking the dip now. So depending on your MC break down you might miss gaining an ASI.
Also, while we are talking about Feats, can you gain access to the desire spells by taking a feat over a MC.
You need to gauge how you will invest in your Ability Scores overall. Even if you stick with the a 1 level Wizard dip so you can max out ASI, remember that your character is now dependent on three (3) Ability Scores for effectiveness. You will have two spellcasting modifiers (and DCs) to track. INT for the Wizard, CHA for the Paladin; and that doesn't consider the Paladin will most certainly be investing in STR for melee combat. Look at your current build and map out where you plan to invest ASI and target your Ability Score values. This can impact effectiveness of your spells and features. Now if you take spells that don't require saves or roll to hit; then this might not be that big of a deal; but you should consider how your character will build out and the level of effectiveness of your class abilities.
Finally, remember that spell casting foci are based on the class of the spell caster. In other words, will need a Holy Symbol for your Paladin and an Arcane Focus for your Wizard if you do not have a components pouch that holds all your materials. This can be problematic in the game since you need a free hand to grasp the component/focus for spells that require it; so you may have to juggle between weapon, shield, and component/focus.
"you might miss gaining an ASI." - When I finished my third character level as a Wizard, I'd select to advance to 4th as a Paladin. Wouldn't that be possible and still give me access to the Paladin ASI or Feat?
"you gain access to the desire spells by taking a feat over a MC" - I don't want to take the Magic Initiate Feat to get the familiar, I'd like Polearm Master for my Paladin instead... and don't want to wait till 4th level to get the familiar because I feel they are at their most useful in lower level situations.
"your Ability Scores Overall" - My Paladin has great Charisma and Strength. And my DM has said I can buy a headband of intellect to raise my Intelligence to19 for multiclassing purposes.
"you may have to juggle between weapon, shield, and component/focus" - I did not think of that! Is this something the DM can be discretionary about? It was he who suggested I multi-class and cited the extra Wizard spells as useful as well as the familiar...
Edit:
I just found out about this: All creatures have access to one action, one bonus action, and one reaction that they can make before the beginning of their next turn. However, in addition to these fundamental types of actions, all creatures are also allotted a Free Object Interaction on each of their turns. Few rules are tied up in a Dungeon Master's discretion as much as Free Object Interaction. - Could this be used to take one hand off my weapon and grab either my holy symbol or arcane focus?
The biggest issue is that you'll be delaying Extra Attack. Level 5 for a class is a big jump in power, so if you delay that, you'll find you're suddenly half as effective as everyone else. If you insist on the multiclass, I'd recommend picking the Booming Blade cantrip as a a stopgap.
The biggest issue is that you'll be delaying Extra Attack. Level 5 for a class is a big jump in power, so if you delay that, you'll find you're suddenly half as effective as everyone else. If you insist on the multiclass, I'd recommend picking the Booming Blade cantrip as a a stopgap.
Yeah, that is true. I'd be doing more to have fun in game than get the best build... thanks for the cantrip suggestion!
"you might miss gaining an ASI." - When I finished my third character level as a Wizard, I'd select to advance to 4th as a Paladin. Wouldn't that be possible and still give me access to the Paladin ASI or Feat?
You need to be a 4th level Paladin to get an ASI. So if you do 1 lvl in Wizard early on you'd be a 5th lvl character before getting the ASI and 6th lvl to get your Extra Attack feature.
"you gain access to the desire spells by taking a feat over a MC" - I don't want to take the Magic Initiate Feat to get the familiar, I'd like Polearm Master for my Paladin instead... and don't want to wait till 4th level to get the familiar because I feel they are at their most useful in lower level situations.
If you only (well mainly at least) want to MC to be able to have a familiar for your low levels then I'd suggest not to bother tbh. You will likely have a lot bigger drawbacks from being behind in your main class than what you can possibly gain from the lvl in Wizard. Adding a spellcasting class later on to get more spell slots for your smite might be an idea but a familiar will not make up for what you lose at lower levels.
"your Ability Scores Overall" - My Paladin has great Charisma and Strength. And my DM has said I can buy a headband of intellect to raise my Intelligence to19 for multiclassing purposes.
If your DM allows it the sure but I'm pretty sure that a headband (or similar item) won't qualify you to MC. Also that will forever limit your attuned items which is likely a poor choice long term.
Don't get me wrong, you should do what you think makes your game fun but I'm not sure this will actually do so.
"you might miss gaining an ASI." - When I finished my third character level as a Wizard, I'd select to advance to 4th as a Paladin. Wouldn't that be possible and still give me access to the Paladin ASI or Feat?
Your Level 3 character would be: Paladin L2/Wizard L1. When your character is promoted to Level 4 they we would be: Paladin L3/Wizard L1. At this point you will be eligible for Sacred Oath and Divine Health features. The character will have to get to Level 5 and take a level in Paladin (L4) to qualify for an ASI or Feat.
"you may have to juggle between weapon, shield, and component/focus" - I did not think of that! Is this something the DM can be discretionary about? It was he who suggested I multi-class and cited the extra Wizard spells as useful as well as the familiar...
Edit:
I just found out about this: All creatures have access to one action, one bonus action, and one reaction that they can make before the beginning of their next turn. However, in addition to these fundamental types of actions, all creatures are also allotted a Free Object Interaction on each of their turns. Few rules are tied up in a Dungeon Master's discretion as much as Free Object Interaction. - Could this be used to take one hand off my weapon and grab either my holy symbol or arcane focus?
Generally, I would say that most DM's will allow that to happen if the character is wielding a two handed weapon. They still need to have the Holy Symbol and Arcane Focus on their person to use. Where it might be problematic is if the character used their Holy Symbol to cast a spell on their last turn and they have a weapon in their other hand; will the DM allow the character to swap and use an Arcane Focus on the character's next turn since both of their hands are occupied. Just want to talk to your DM on how characters need to be prepared to equip weapons and use spell casting materials. I am not saying it is impossible, but something to consider. If your character was donning a shield then it would have potential to be more of an issue.
Well you all seem to think that delaying my Oath and Extra Attack is not worth my getting a familar for low-level play. (some have suggested two feats to get it instead...maybe I'm too new..but sacrificing the polearm feat seems worse than delaying my paladin level progression by one level imo). I wanted the familiar not just for attack advantage and delivery of touch spells, but also its other uses. They (an owl) can scout, 'Help' with some Ability/Skill rolls, re-appear from your pocket dimension on the other side of doors so you can see there, offer Passive Perception, watch over you while sleeping, and (not so nice) test for traps/poisons. But mainly I would find it so fun to play one!
However, I'm taking all your advice into account and may not do it. It also presents an in-game problem of paying for the headband so... Something else that occurs to me is that if you all think it makes my paladin so much less effective, my party members might not like me doing it.
I wanted advice on things you have to attend to when multiclassing in general. Since no one mentioned anything I hadn't included on my first post list, I guess I've got that covered.
Thank you very much for all your input!! Very much food for thought.
IMO if you want to do all those things, you should just be playing a wizard (or ranger tbh). Find Familiar often gets lots of fanfare, but it’s really only amazing if your DM ignores the familiar and doesn’t enforce spell material costs.
That aside, I think it’s also contentious that a temporary buff could allow you to meet prerequisite to multiclassing. I certainly wouldn’t rule it that way.
Well you all seem to think that delaying my Oath and Extra Attack is not worth my getting a familar for low-level play. (some have suggested two feats to get it instead...maybe I'm too new..but sacrificing the polearm feat seems worse than delaying my paladin level progression by one level imo). I wanted the familiar not just for attack advantage and delivery of touch spells, but also its other uses. They (an owl) can scout, 'Help' with some Ability/Skill rolls, re-appear from your pocket dimension on the other side of doors so you can see there, offer Passive Perception, watch over you while sleeping, and (not so nice) test for traps/poisons. But mainly I would find it so fun to play one!
However, I'm taking all your advice into account and may not do it. It also presents an in-game problem of paying for the headband so... Something else that occurs to me is that if you all think it makes my paladin so much less effective, my party members might not like me doing it.
I wanted advice on things you have to attend to when multiclassing in general. Since no one mentioned anything I hadn't included on my first post list, I guess I've got that covered.
Thank you very much for all your input!! Very much food for thought.
Unless you are playing at an optimized table (the other players have optimized their characters for maximum effectiveness, especially damage) then I think you will be fine with the 1 level Wizard dip. The point is to have fun, not mapping out all the possible pros and cons of multiclassing (unless you find that fun as well). Delaying subclass or Extra Attack 1 level will not break your character. You will be slightly behind the power curve, but that next level you will be back on course for the most part. Your Aura will be delayed 1 level, but that won't break the character either.
You may want to consider spells that don't rely on INT for attack rolls or Save DC's and use your slots/preparations for utility. At least until you can get that headband, if you can. And the wizard slots you have (two 1st level Ignore that, see the multiclassing table for slots) can be used for smites if needed. And maybe focus on trying to get other ritual spells (See here) that you can use without spell slots.
Well you all seem to think that delaying my Oath and Extra Attack is not worth my getting a familar for low-level play. (some have suggested two feats to get it instead...maybe I'm too new..but sacrificing the polearm feat seems worse than delaying my paladin level progression by one level imo). I wanted the familiar not just for attack advantage and delivery of touch spells, but also its other uses. They (an owl) can scout, 'Help' with some Ability/Skill rolls, re-appear from your pocket dimension on the other side of doors so you can see there, offer Passive Perception, watch over you while sleeping, and (not so nice) test for traps/poisons. But mainly I would find it so fun to play one!
However, I'm taking all your advice into account and may not do it. It also presents an in-game problem of paying for the headband so... Something else that occurs to me is that if you all think it makes my paladin so much less effective, my party members might not like me doing it.
I wanted advice on things you have to attend to when multiclassing in general. Since no one mentioned anything I hadn't included on my first post list, I guess I've got that covered.
Thank you very much for all your input!! Very much food for thought.
Unless you are playing at an optimized table (the other players have optimized their characters for maximum effectiveness, especially damage) then I think you will be fine with the 1 level Wizard dip. The point is to have fun, not mapping out all the possible pros and cons of multiclassing (unless you find that fun as well). Delaying subclass or Extra Attack 1 level will not break your character. You will be slightly behind the power curve, but that next level you will be back on course for the most part. Your Aura will be delayed 1 level, but that won't break the character either.
You may want to consider spells that don't rely on INT for attack rolls or Save DC's and use your slots/preparations for utility. At least until you can get that headband, if you can. And the wizard slots you have (two 1st level) can be used for smites if needed. And maybe focus on trying to get other ritual spells (See here) that you can use without spell slots.
My big point was that Familiars are very, very fragile, and quite expensive. I didn't want OP investing in the level dip of Wizard (and buying a HoI to boot!) only to realize that it's not worth it or is cost prohibitive.
And your DM can reasonably ask how your Familiar is taking the Help action to determine if they even can be of any help. Having an owl "help" you break down a door is not really going to be any help (and if it is all out of combat, another party member is just as capable of taking the Help action). So just keep this in mind
I think your point is valid and I'm glad you brought it up. But many characters use Familiars all the time. Not just for helping in combat but scouting etc. Or even just an RP thing. My point was if you think it will be fun just go ahead and do it (with the caveat about the optimized table). And the gained utility of those two 1st level spell slots can make up for the 1 level delay once the familiar is no longer needed, wanted, or effective to have. Two castings of the Shield spell can make up for the 1 level delay the entire life of the character. As well as any Ritual Spells that can be added to their spellbook like Detect Magic or Comprehend Languages or Floating Disk
To the OP, if you think you will have fun with it, then just do it.
Thanks for the response! Nice to hear " Delaying subclass or Extra Attack 1 level will not break your character." I don't think my party is' optimized'. I'm sure it would have come up if that was the case.
I've described the situation to my co-players and am waiting to hear back how they feel about a M/C into Wizard for 1. I mentioned the delay in Oath spells and Extra Attack. Two have responded that they would be fine with it. I don't want to do it if someone feels strongly against it. (Which never occurred to me as possibility until after reading this thread.) It does affect their characters after all. We will see how that goes...
Shield is a great spell with +5AC. Absorb Elements is good as well. Some useful ritual spells there too, like Detect Magic and Alarm.
To be honest, people tend to overstate the combat effectiveness of familiars. That’s since most DMs don’t apply the rules correctly because they are reticent to merc a pet, even a pet that can just keep respawning as long as you keep pumping quarters into the machine.
Well you all seem to think that delaying my Oath and Extra Attack is not worth my getting a familar for low-level play. (some have suggested two feats to get it instead...maybe I'm too new..but sacrificing the polearm feat seems worse than delaying my paladin level progression by one level imo). I wanted the familiar not just for attack advantage and delivery of touch spells, but also its other uses. They (an owl) can scout, 'Help' with some Ability/Skill rolls, re-appear from your pocket dimension on the other side of doors so you can see there, offer Passive Perception, watch over you while sleeping, and (not so nice) test for traps/poisons. But mainly I would find it so fun to play one!
However, I'm taking all your advice into account and may not do it. It also presents an in-game problem of paying for the headband so... Something else that occurs to me is that if you all think it makes my paladin so much less effective, my party members might not like me doing it.
I wanted advice on things you have to attend to when multiclassing in general. Since no one mentioned anything I hadn't included on my first post list, I guess I've got that covered.
Thank you very much for all your input!! Very much food for thought.
One, I want to make sure you are clear on the ASI or Feat being awarded on the Class Level and not Character Level. The Fighter and Rogue classes have additional ASI levels than the standard 4/8/12/16/19 breakout. It doesn't apply in your case but it is something to be aware when multiclassing. This is also important if you start taking a 3rd class or you breakout your build so they each class doesn't stop on an ASI level because you potentially leave important elements on the table. As you level up your primary Ability Scores need to be trending to 18-20 levels to remain effect (for the most part). So you have to aware if you are going to miss an ASI how that can impact the character.
One other question is, what is your character's role in the party? It is great you want to do as many things as possible, and while it might sound fun, you take the risk in being less effective in other areas that your character should be having more of an impact in. Making the decision to delay your ASI or Feat, and 5th level where you get multi-attack (and other levels for that matter) might not be a big deal and your character could be just fine. As long as you feel what you are getting in return will have a long term benefit then it is worth trade. But you should consider how this move will benefit you now, over the next 3-5 levels, and when the party enters the 3rd tier adventures. If your strategies are still effective at that level then it is worth the investment. If it wears out after 2-3 levels then you are not using your resources efficiently.
"ASI or Feat being awarded on the Class Level and not Character Level" - So if I completed a 3rd level Paladin, did my 4th character level as a 1st level Wizard, then did my 5th character level as a 4th level Paladin, I would get the Paladin 'upgrades' for 4th level and could take my ASI or feat as 4th level Paladin/5thlevel character?
I'm the only up-front damage dealer in the party. I suppose that makes me a 'tank'? I've explained what I'd like to do to the other players and asked how they would feel about it, mentioning the possible delayed Oath spells and for certain delayed 2ndAttack feature (depends on if I switch going into 3rd character level or 4th if I delay my Oath or not). I will make my decision when I know what they think as it affects us as a whole.
Yes, when you get to Paladin level 4 you will get what it says on the Paladin table for a 4th level Paladin "Ability Score Improvement" just like it says on every class table. So, at Character level 5 (Paladin 4/Wizard 1) you would get the ASI from Paladin. At character level 6 (Paladin 5/Wizard 1) you will get Extra Attack, as shown on the Paladin table. At character level 7 (Paladin 6/Wizard 1) you will get your Aura of Protection, as per the Paladin table. And so on. Consult the class table to see what you get at a given class level.
Also, for spell slots, you will check the Multiclassing section to see what spell slots you have. At character level 5 (Paladin 4/Wizard 1) you would have spell slots as a 3rd level caster (Four 1st level slots and two 2nd level slots) but you can only cast spell of a level that each class allows. So in this case you would have no 2nd level spells known/prepared so you can use those 2nd level slots to upcast a 1st level spell or for smites.
Well you all seem to think that delaying my Oath and Extra Attack is not worth my getting a familar for low-level play. (some have suggested two feats to get it instead...maybe I'm too new..but sacrificing the polearm feat seems worse than delaying my paladin level progression by one level imo). I wanted the familiar not just for attack advantage and delivery of touch spells, but also its other uses. They (an owl) can scout, 'Help' with some Ability/Skill rolls, re-appear from your pocket dimension on the other side of doors so you can see there, offer Passive Perception, watch over you while sleeping, and (not so nice) test for traps/poisons. But mainly I would find it so fun to play one!
However, I'm taking all your advice into account and may not do it. It also presents an in-game problem of paying for the headband so... Something else that occurs to me is that if you all think it makes my paladin so much less effective, my party members might not like me doing it.
I wanted advice on things you have to attend to when multiclassing in general. Since no one mentioned anything I hadn't included on my first post list, I guess I've got that covered.
Thank you very much for all your input!! Very much food for thought.
Unless you are playing at an optimized table (the other players have optimized their characters for maximum effectiveness, especially damage) then I think you will be fine with the 1 level Wizard dip. The point is to have fun, not mapping out all the possible pros and cons of multiclassing (unless you find that fun as well). Delaying subclass or Extra Attack 1 level will not break your character. You will be slightly behind the power curve, but that next level you will be back on course for the most part. Your Aura will be delayed 1 level, but that won't break the character either.
You may want to consider spells that don't rely on INT for attack rolls or Save DC's and use your slots/preparations for utility. At least until you can get that headband, if you can. And the wizard slots you have (two 1st level) can be used for smites if needed. And maybe focus on trying to get other ritual spells (See here) that you can use without spell slots.
My big point was that Familiars are very, very fragile, and quite expensive. I didn't want OP investing in the level dip of Wizard (and buying a HoI to boot!) only to realize that it's not worth it or is cost prohibitive.
And your DM can reasonably ask how your Familiar is taking the Help action to determine if they even can be of any help. Having an owl "help" you break down a door is not really going to be any help (and if it is all out of combat, another party member is just as capable of taking the Help action). So just keep this in mind
I think your point is valid and I'm glad you brought it up. But many characters use Familiars all the time. Not just for helping in combat but scouting etc. Or even just an RP thing. My point was if you think it will be fun just go ahead and do it (with the caveat about the optimized table). And the gained utility of those two 1st level spell slots can make up for the 1 level delay once the familiar is no longer needed, wanted, or effective to have. Two castings of the Shield spell can make up for the 1 level delay the entire life of the character. As well as any Ritual Spells that can be added to their spellbook like Detect Magic or Comprehend Languages or Floating Disk
To the OP, if you think you will have fun with it, then just do it.
Shield is honestly not great for a Paladin, imo, particularly at low level play. That 1 attack you actually stop cold with it is almost certainly going to be for less damage than you could get from the Smite, Lay on Hands will be good for fixing the damage after combat has ended, and spending a very limited resource in this manner mostly just makes the current encounter last slightly longer and deprives you of the resource down the line. It's not something I'd jump down a player's throat for at a table, but it's really not a tactic I'd recommend for effective or engaging play here.
Frankly, this sounds quite a bit like a character that's trying to go too wide on utility, particularly for tier 1 play. I had the bright idea to do a Rogue/Cleric split in Pathfinder many many moons ago when I didn't have much experience with the game, and my 2/2 split tended to just be underwhelming at most things rather than synergizing features. And I'm not sure where the "two extra spell slots" are coming from. a 2/1 Paladin/Wizard split multiclass creates an effective level of 2 on the table for 3 1st level slots, and even once they take another level in Paladin it still doesn't move them on the multiclass slot table. Once they're level 5 in total at 4/1, then they're at 3 for the same slot distribution they'd get from being straight 5th level in Paladin, but without any 2nd level spells, possibly even including the Oath ones depending how the DM interprets the rules on that point.
At the end of the day there's no right way to play, but I strongly advise against trying to go wide on features via multiclass until you're at least into 5th level and have a solid foundation of your core stuff. My experience has been that trying to go wide early tends to just spread you too thin.
You are correct and I was wrong about the two spell slots. I will go back and correct that post. And I did mention the MC table and spell slots later. Sorry if that caused any confusion for the OP or others. I do find Shield to be effective throughout a character’s career. It may not be as effective in Tier 1 compared to a smite but later Tiers when creatures hit much harder I think it can be worth it.
I’m of a different opinion of when to MC. Sometimes, if you are going for a specific idea for a character dipping in early can bring the idea online faster. Especially if it’s a 1 level dip I’m personally not that worried about spreading myself too thin. Now if you are taking 3+ levels in a MC for subclass or higher level features it may very well be best to get those first 5 levels in your base class (Paladin).
To add to where the conversation is at the moment: assuming you're wielding a shield, your Paladin/Wizard is unlikely to have a free hand to cast the Shield or Absorb Elements reaction spell, unless your DM is allowing you to drop your weapon (and not picking it up themselves...). You need to use your wizard spellcasting focus/pouch and not your holy symbol.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hi All,
I'm thinking of adding one level of Wizard to my second-level Paladin (for a Familiar's combat advantage + delivering touch spells, its other uses/flavor, plus the extra spells in general).
I've found a list of things you have to pay attention to. Can anyone tell me if there are other things I'll have to consider?
(My campaign is in Roll20, so using the Charactermancer, some things may be automatically calculated/ added, but some things might not...)
Any help is appreciated!
Ability Score Improvements (ASI) or Feats: These are achieved through class level progression and not character level. You should weigh the option of reaching level 4 first vs taking the dip now. So depending on your MC break down you might miss gaining an ASI.
Also, while we are talking about Feats, can you gain access to the desire spells by taking a feat over a MC.
You need to gauge how you will invest in your Ability Scores overall. Even if you stick with the a 1 level Wizard dip so you can max out ASI, remember that your character is now dependent on three (3) Ability Scores for effectiveness. You will have two spellcasting modifiers (and DCs) to track. INT for the Wizard, CHA for the Paladin; and that doesn't consider the Paladin will most certainly be investing in STR for melee combat. Look at your current build and map out where you plan to invest ASI and target your Ability Score values. This can impact effectiveness of your spells and features. Now if you take spells that don't require saves or roll to hit; then this might not be that big of a deal; but you should consider how your character will build out and the level of effectiveness of your class abilities.
Finally, remember that spell casting foci are based on the class of the spell caster. In other words, will need a Holy Symbol for your Paladin and an Arcane Focus for your Wizard if you do not have a components pouch that holds all your materials. This can be problematic in the game since you need a free hand to grasp the component/focus for spells that require it; so you may have to juggle between weapon, shield, and component/focus.
Hi, thanks for the reply!
"you might miss gaining an ASI." - When I finished my third character level as a Wizard, I'd select to advance to 4th as a Paladin. Wouldn't that be possible and still give me access to the Paladin ASI or Feat?
"you gain access to the desire spells by taking a feat over a MC" - I don't want to take the Magic Initiate Feat to get the familiar, I'd like Polearm Master for my Paladin instead... and don't want to wait till 4th level to get the familiar because I feel they are at their most useful in lower level situations.
"your Ability Scores Overall" - My Paladin has great Charisma and Strength. And my DM has said I can buy a headband of intellect to raise my Intelligence to19 for multiclassing purposes.
"you may have to juggle between weapon, shield, and component/focus" - I did not think of that! Is this something the DM can be discretionary about? It was he who suggested I multi-class and cited the extra Wizard spells as useful as well as the familiar...
Edit:
I just found out about this: All creatures have access to one action, one bonus action, and one reaction that they can make before the beginning of their next turn. However, in addition to these fundamental types of actions, all creatures are also allotted a Free Object Interaction on each of their turns. Few rules are tied up in a Dungeon Master's discretion as much as Free Object Interaction. - Could this be used to take one hand off my weapon and grab either my holy symbol or arcane focus?
The biggest issue is that you'll be delaying Extra Attack. Level 5 for a class is a big jump in power, so if you delay that, you'll find you're suddenly half as effective as everyone else. If you insist on the multiclass, I'd recommend picking the Booming Blade cantrip as a a stopgap.
Yeah, that is true. I'd be doing more to have fun in game than get the best build... thanks for the cantrip suggestion!
You need to be a 4th level Paladin to get an ASI. So if you do 1 lvl in Wizard early on you'd be a 5th lvl character before getting the ASI and 6th lvl to get your Extra Attack feature.
If you only (well mainly at least) want to MC to be able to have a familiar for your low levels then I'd suggest not to bother tbh. You will likely have a lot bigger drawbacks from being behind in your main class than what you can possibly gain from the lvl in Wizard. Adding a spellcasting class later on to get more spell slots for your smite might be an idea but a familiar will not make up for what you lose at lower levels.
If your DM allows it the sure but I'm pretty sure that a headband (or similar item) won't qualify you to MC. Also that will forever limit your attuned items which is likely a poor choice long term.
Don't get me wrong, you should do what you think makes your game fun but I'm not sure this will actually do so.
Your Level 3 character would be: Paladin L2/Wizard L1. When your character is promoted to Level 4 they we would be: Paladin L3/Wizard L1. At this point you will be eligible for Sacred Oath and Divine Health features. The character will have to get to Level 5 and take a level in Paladin (L4) to qualify for an ASI or Feat.
Generally, I would say that most DM's will allow that to happen if the character is wielding a two handed weapon. They still need to have the Holy Symbol and Arcane Focus on their person to use. Where it might be problematic is if the character used their Holy Symbol to cast a spell on their last turn and they have a weapon in their other hand; will the DM allow the character to swap and use an Arcane Focus on the character's next turn since both of their hands are occupied. Just want to talk to your DM on how characters need to be prepared to equip weapons and use spell casting materials. I am not saying it is impossible, but something to consider. If your character was donning a shield then it would have potential to be more of an issue.
Well you all seem to think that delaying my Oath and Extra Attack is not worth my getting a familar for low-level play. (some have suggested two feats to get it instead...maybe I'm too new..but sacrificing the polearm feat seems worse than delaying my paladin level progression by one level imo). I wanted the familiar not just for attack advantage and delivery of touch spells, but also its other uses. They (an owl) can scout, 'Help' with some Ability/Skill rolls, re-appear from your pocket dimension on the other side of doors so you can see there, offer Passive Perception, watch over you while sleeping, and (not so nice) test for traps/poisons. But mainly I would find it so fun to play one!
However, I'm taking all your advice into account and may not do it. It also presents an in-game problem of paying for the headband so... Something else that occurs to me is that if you all think it makes my paladin so much less effective, my party members might not like me doing it.
I wanted advice on things you have to attend to when multiclassing in general. Since no one mentioned anything I hadn't included on my first post list, I guess I've got that covered.
Thank you very much for all your input!! Very much food for thought.
IMO if you want to do all those things, you should just be playing a wizard (or ranger tbh). Find Familiar often gets lots of fanfare, but it’s really only amazing if your DM ignores the familiar and doesn’t enforce spell material costs.
That aside, I think it’s also contentious that a temporary buff could allow you to meet prerequisite to multiclassing. I certainly wouldn’t rule it that way.
Unless you are playing at an optimized table (the other players have optimized their characters for maximum effectiveness, especially damage) then I think you will be fine with the 1 level Wizard dip. The point is to have fun, not mapping out all the possible pros and cons of multiclassing (unless you find that fun as well). Delaying subclass or Extra Attack 1 level will not break your character. You will be slightly behind the power curve, but that next level you will be back on course for the most part. Your Aura will be delayed 1 level, but that won't break the character either.
You may want to consider spells that don't rely on INT for attack rolls or Save DC's and use your slots/preparations for utility. At least until you can get that headband, if you can. And the wizard slots you have (
two 1st levelIgnore that, see the multiclassing table for slots) can be used for smites if needed. And maybe focus on trying to get other ritual spells (See here) that you can use without spell slots.EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I think your point is valid and I'm glad you brought it up. But many characters use Familiars all the time. Not just for helping in combat but scouting etc. Or even just an RP thing. My point was if you think it will be fun just go ahead and do it (with the caveat about the optimized table). And the gained utility of those two 1st level spell slots can make up for the 1 level delay once the familiar is no longer needed, wanted, or effective to have. Two castings of the Shield spell can make up for the 1 level delay the entire life of the character. As well as any Ritual Spells that can be added to their spellbook like Detect Magic or Comprehend Languages or Floating Disk
To the OP, if you think you will have fun with it, then just do it.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Thanks for the response! Nice to hear " Delaying subclass or Extra Attack 1 level will not break your character." I don't think my party is' optimized'. I'm sure it would have come up if that was the case.
I've described the situation to my co-players and am waiting to hear back how they feel about a M/C into Wizard for 1. I mentioned the delay in Oath spells and Extra Attack. Two have responded that they would be fine with it. I don't want to do it if someone feels strongly against it. (Which never occurred to me as possibility until after reading this thread.) It does affect their characters after all. We will see how that goes...
Shield is a great spell with +5AC. Absorb Elements is good as well. Some useful ritual spells there too, like Detect Magic and Alarm.
To be honest, people tend to overstate the combat effectiveness of familiars. That’s since most DMs don’t apply the rules correctly because they are reticent to merc a pet, even a pet that can just keep respawning as long as you keep pumping quarters into the machine.
One, I want to make sure you are clear on the ASI or Feat being awarded on the Class Level and not Character Level. The Fighter and Rogue classes have additional ASI levels than the standard 4/8/12/16/19 breakout. It doesn't apply in your case but it is something to be aware when multiclassing. This is also important if you start taking a 3rd class or you breakout your build so they each class doesn't stop on an ASI level because you potentially leave important elements on the table. As you level up your primary Ability Scores need to be trending to 18-20 levels to remain effect (for the most part). So you have to aware if you are going to miss an ASI how that can impact the character.
One other question is, what is your character's role in the party? It is great you want to do as many things as possible, and while it might sound fun, you take the risk in being less effective in other areas that your character should be having more of an impact in. Making the decision to delay your ASI or Feat, and 5th level where you get multi-attack (and other levels for that matter) might not be a big deal and your character could be just fine. As long as you feel what you are getting in return will have a long term benefit then it is worth trade. But you should consider how this move will benefit you now, over the next 3-5 levels, and when the party enters the 3rd tier adventures. If your strategies are still effective at that level then it is worth the investment. If it wears out after 2-3 levels then you are not using your resources efficiently.
"ASI or Feat being awarded on the Class Level and not Character Level" - So if I completed a 3rd level Paladin, did my 4th character level as a 1st level Wizard, then did my 5th character level as a 4th level Paladin, I would get the Paladin 'upgrades' for 4th level and could take my ASI or feat as 4th level Paladin/5thlevel character?
I'm the only up-front damage dealer in the party. I suppose that makes me a 'tank'? I've explained what I'd like to do to the other players and asked how they would feel about it, mentioning the possible delayed Oath spells and for certain delayed 2ndAttack feature (depends on if I switch going into 3rd character level or 4th if I delay my Oath or not). I will make my decision when I know what they think as it affects us as a whole.
Thanks!
Yes, when you get to Paladin level 4 you will get what it says on the Paladin table for a 4th level Paladin "Ability Score Improvement" just like it says on every class table. So, at Character level 5 (Paladin 4/Wizard 1) you would get the ASI from Paladin. At character level 6 (Paladin 5/Wizard 1) you will get Extra Attack, as shown on the Paladin table. At character level 7 (Paladin 6/Wizard 1) you will get your Aura of Protection, as per the Paladin table. And so on. Consult the class table to see what you get at a given class level.
Also, for spell slots, you will check the Multiclassing section to see what spell slots you have. At character level 5 (Paladin 4/Wizard 1) you would have spell slots as a 3rd level caster (Four 1st level slots and two 2nd level slots) but you can only cast spell of a level that each class allows. So in this case you would have no 2nd level spells known/prepared so you can use those 2nd level slots to upcast a 1st level spell or for smites.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Thank you for the generalized info on how to handle multi-classing! That's really what I was looking for, very helpful :)
Shield is honestly not great for a Paladin, imo, particularly at low level play. That 1 attack you actually stop cold with it is almost certainly going to be for less damage than you could get from the Smite, Lay on Hands will be good for fixing the damage after combat has ended, and spending a very limited resource in this manner mostly just makes the current encounter last slightly longer and deprives you of the resource down the line. It's not something I'd jump down a player's throat for at a table, but it's really not a tactic I'd recommend for effective or engaging play here.
Frankly, this sounds quite a bit like a character that's trying to go too wide on utility, particularly for tier 1 play. I had the bright idea to do a Rogue/Cleric split in Pathfinder many many moons ago when I didn't have much experience with the game, and my 2/2 split tended to just be underwhelming at most things rather than synergizing features. And I'm not sure where the "two extra spell slots" are coming from. a 2/1 Paladin/Wizard split multiclass creates an effective level of 2 on the table for 3 1st level slots, and even once they take another level in Paladin it still doesn't move them on the multiclass slot table. Once they're level 5 in total at 4/1, then they're at 3 for the same slot distribution they'd get from being straight 5th level in Paladin, but without any 2nd level spells, possibly even including the Oath ones depending how the DM interprets the rules on that point.
At the end of the day there's no right way to play, but I strongly advise against trying to go wide on features via multiclass until you're at least into 5th level and have a solid foundation of your core stuff. My experience has been that trying to go wide early tends to just spread you too thin.
You are correct and I was wrong about the two spell slots. I will go back and correct that post. And I did mention the MC table and spell slots later. Sorry if that caused any confusion for the OP or others. I do find Shield to be effective throughout a character’s career. It may not be as effective in Tier 1 compared to a smite but later Tiers when creatures hit much harder I think it can be worth it.
I’m of a different opinion of when to MC. Sometimes, if you are going for a specific idea for a character dipping in early can bring the idea online faster. Especially if it’s a 1 level dip I’m personally not that worried about spreading myself too thin. Now if you are taking 3+ levels in a MC for subclass or higher level features it may very well be best to get those first 5 levels in your base class (Paladin).
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
To add to where the conversation is at the moment: assuming you're wielding a shield, your Paladin/Wizard is unlikely to have a free hand to cast the Shield or Absorb Elements reaction spell, unless your DM is allowing you to drop your weapon (and not picking it up themselves...). You need to use your wizard spellcasting focus/pouch and not your holy symbol.