If a Giant Constrictor Snake provided by the Staff of the Python is affected by some conditions (i.e. poisoned), should that Giant Constrictor Snake keep the condition when it reverts to its staff form?
If I'm not wrong, for Druids, conditions suffered while in Wild Shape remain when they come back to their normal shape (if that normal shape is not immune), so I guess this is the same case, but maybe not.
How would you rule this situation?
The Staff is silent about losing the conditions:
You can use an action to speak this staff's command word and throw the staff on the ground within 10 feet of you. The staff becomes a giant constrictor snake under your control and acts on its own initiative count.
By using a bonus action to speak the command word again, you return the staff to its normal form in a space formerly occupied by the snake.
[...]
If the snake is reduced to 0 hit points, it dies and reverts to its staff form. The staff then shatters and is destroyed. If the snake reverts to staff form before losing all its hit points, it regains all of them.
The difference in those situations is that a druid is changing from one creature to another. A staff isn't a creature, and can't be affected by conditions
Reverting to staff form also restores all its hit points. I'd rule any conditions get wiped away too
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
My inclination would be to rule that the staff and the python are the same thing, and conditions remain, although they are generally irrelevant while it's an object. I'd also rule that durations continue to tick down while it's a staff, but that's another arbitrary decision.
The closest comparison I can think of is True Polymorph, but that's also silent on the issue, and I don't feel like digging for sage advice rulings.
The petrified condition might also be considered precedent, and that explicitly suspends some conditions.
My inclination would be to rule that the staff and the python are the same thing, and conditions remain, although they are generally irrelevant while it's an object. I'd also rule that durations continue to tick down while it's a staff, but that's another arbitrary decision.
The closest comparison I can think of is True Polymorph, but that's also silent on the issue, and I don't feel like digging for sage advice rulings.
The petrified condition might also be considered precedent, and that explicitly suspends some conditions.
Oh, by Mystra, new doubts then! 😅
AntonSirius' answer makes a lot of sense (thanks!), but my reasoning was the staff and the snake are the same entity/thing, just in different shapes. Similar opinion as jl8e.
About the Polymorph spell, following the same train of thoughts, exhaustion levels or conditions should remain in the new form (object or creature).
EDIT: removed a sentence to avoid wrong assessments.
The Staff of the Python doesn't say conditions affecting the Giant Constrictor Snake are removed when reverting to staff form so they should last until countered or their duration run out.
Conditions: A condition lasts either until it is countered (the prone condition is countered by standing up, for example) or for a duration specified by the effect that imposed the condition.
The Staff of the Python doesn't say conditions affecting the Giant Constrictor Snake are removed when reverting to staff form so they should last until countered or their duration run out.
Conditions: A condition lasts either until it is countered (the prone condition is countered by standing up, for example) or for a duration specified by the effect that imposed the condition.
TBH unless there's excessive/abusive use i'd just use a fresh snake everytime you speak the staff's command word and throw it on the ground because most conditions should be gone by the time you use it again. Considering there's no usage limitation other than action economy, i would expect fair play here as the staff could theorically become snake and revert back multiple times in a combat and it would otherwise be an easy way to remove all conditions, especially the more delibilitating one.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
TBH unless there's excessive/abusive use i'd just use a fresh snake everytime you speak the staff's command word and throw it on the ground because most conditions should be gone by the time you use it again. Considering there's no usage limitation other than action economy, i would expect fair play here as the staff could theorically become snake and revert back multiple times in a combat and it would otherwise be an easy way to remove all conditions, especially the more delibilitating one.
Fair enough. I also trust the players not to power game.
In the original post, I didn't mention it was a real situation where some characters and the snake were infected by Gas Spores (details below), so it's a tricky situation for the Staff depending on how you rule it 😅
Death Burst. The gas spore explodes when it drops to 0 hit points. Each creature within 20 feet of it must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or take 10 (3d6) poison damage and become infected with a disease on a failed save. Creatures immune to the poisoned condition are immune to this disease.
Spores invade an infected creature's system, killing the creature in a number of hours equal to 1d12 + the creature's Constitution score, unless the disease is removed. In half that time, the creature becomes poisoned for the rest of the duration. After the creature dies, it sprouts 2d4 Tiny gas spores that grow to full size in 7 days.
A disease is not a condition, it's a different game element entirely. How a disease works aren’t bound by a common set of rules and depends of the story you want to tell, being plot device.
Unless the disease is removed with lesser restoration or similar effect before then, the infected Giant Constrictor Snake may dies after 1d12+12 hours and reverts to its staff form before it shatters and is destroyed. This could take considerable time, especially if the infection is suspended while in staff form.
Or you handwave this all and just have the snake come back unscatted, either being unaffected by this disease or cleaned out by the staff's magic.
In the end how do you want it to go is up to you. Its never fun for a PC to loose a magic item, but sometimes there are circumstances that make it so.
Diseases: A disease that does more than infect a few party members is primarily a plot device. The rules help describe the effects of the disease and how it can be cured, but the specifics of how a disease works aren’t bound by a common set of rules. Diseases can affect any creature, and a given illness might or might not pass from one race or kind of creature to another. A plague might affect only constructs or undead, or sweep through a halfling neighborhood but leave other races untouched. What matters is the story you want to tell.
That info from the DMG was one of the reasons why I preferred to ask about the condition caused by the disease rather than by the disease itself, due to the "lack" of directly associated rules.
That being said, I'm considering ruling this disease is also carried over. It's not I want to punish the player at all, but it seems logical to me rather than the opposite.
This encounter with the Gas Spores caught me off guard. We're playing an official module, and I hadn't planned on including diseases in our adventures (at least, not yet).
Luckily, the party has an amazing cleric ready to help, so I'm confident the Staff will survive.
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If a Giant Constrictor Snake provided by the Staff of the Python is affected by some conditions (i.e. poisoned), should that Giant Constrictor Snake keep the condition when it reverts to its staff form?
If I'm not wrong, for Druids, conditions suffered while in Wild Shape remain when they come back to their normal shape (if that normal shape is not immune), so I guess this is the same case, but maybe not.
How would you rule this situation?
The Staff is silent about losing the conditions:
The difference in those situations is that a druid is changing from one creature to another. A staff isn't a creature, and can't be affected by conditions
Reverting to staff form also restores all its hit points. I'd rule any conditions get wiped away too
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's unclear, and can be ruled either way.
My inclination would be to rule that the staff and the python are the same thing, and conditions remain, although they are generally irrelevant while it's an object. I'd also rule that durations continue to tick down while it's a staff, but that's another arbitrary decision.
The closest comparison I can think of is True Polymorph, but that's also silent on the issue, and I don't feel like digging for sage advice rulings.
The petrified condition might also be considered precedent, and that explicitly suspends some conditions.
Oh, by Mystra, new doubts then! 😅
AntonSirius' answer makes a lot of sense (thanks!), but my reasoning was the staff and the snake are the same entity/thing, just in different shapes. Similar opinion as jl8e.
About the Polymorph spell, following the same train of thoughts, exhaustion levels or conditions should remain in the new form (object or creature).
EDIT: removed a sentence to avoid wrong assessments.
The Staff of the Python doesn't say conditions affecting the Giant Constrictor Snake are removed when reverting to staff form so they should last until countered or their duration run out.
Wow... nailed it! 😶
TBH unless there's excessive/abusive use i'd just use a fresh snake everytime you speak the staff's command word and throw it on the ground because most conditions should be gone by the time you use it again. Considering there's no usage limitation other than action economy, i would expect fair play here as the staff could theorically become snake and revert back multiple times in a combat and it would otherwise be an easy way to remove all conditions, especially the more delibilitating one.
FWIW, Crawford suggests considering a condition as suspended if its target becomes invalid by changing form
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Fair enough. I also trust the players not to power game.
In the original post, I didn't mention it was a real situation where some characters and the snake were infected by Gas Spores (details below), so it's a tricky situation for the Staff depending on how you rule it 😅
A disease is not a condition, it's a different game element entirely. How a disease works aren’t bound by a common set of rules and depends of the story you want to tell, being plot device.
Unless the disease is removed with lesser restoration or similar effect before then, the infected Giant Constrictor Snake may dies after 1d12+12 hours and reverts to its staff form before it shatters and is destroyed. This could take considerable time, especially if the infection is suspended while in staff form.
Or you handwave this all and just have the snake come back unscatted, either being unaffected by this disease or cleaned out by the staff's magic.
In the end how do you want it to go is up to you. Its never fun for a PC to loose a magic item, but sometimes there are circumstances that make it so.
Thanks Plaguescarred, you always speak wisely.
That info from the DMG was one of the reasons why I preferred to ask about the condition caused by the disease rather than by the disease itself, due to the "lack" of directly associated rules.
That being said, I'm considering ruling this disease is also carried over. It's not I want to punish the player at all, but it seems logical to me rather than the opposite.
This encounter with the Gas Spores caught me off guard. We're playing an official module, and I hadn't planned on including diseases in our adventures (at least, not yet).
Luckily, the party has an amazing cleric ready to help, so I'm confident the Staff will survive.