I was hoping the new version would nerf this spell a bit. I've always found it to be an option used pretty much every fight. Passive damage, reduced speed. Selective (doesn't hurt your allies). But the new version is, on my reading more powerful. It allows the caster to move and as new creatures enter the emanation's area of effect, they need to save and take the damage. This means a caster can run through a swath of enemies and do damage to dozens or more. Combined with longstrider, haste or other movement powers/abilities, this becomes a real divine bull dozer. Not a lot of spells allow for that, most require the targets be there at the end of their turns or at least the beginning. This can all happen in the caster's turn. Am I reading this correctly?
And, it still causes damage on the turns of other creatures. So you can really double dip over a combat round.
I read this spell as functioning exactly the same as it did in 2014. In 2014 when an AoE spell had a Range of "self" and targeted the spellcaster, that AoE would move along with the spellcaster since the spellcaster's body was the point of origin for the AoE.
The phrase "when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there" has been changed to "whenever the Emanation enters a creature’s space and whenever a creature enters the Emanation or ends its turn there". This is just a clarification. Mechanically, these mean the same thing, but it's just written a bit more clearly in 2024.
And yeah, this seems WAY overpowered for a 3rd level spell. Even at just a default speed of 30 you can affect an area that's larger than a Fireball spell in a single turn while causing about 50% of Fireball's damage, you can cause quite a bit more damage when it's not your turn, and you can repeat this every round for 10 minutes all on the same spell slot. I suppose if you are trying to avoid opportunity attacks while you run around then your effective AoE size becomes quite a bit smaller, and theoretically you could lose concentration on the spell at some point, but still . . .
no, it doesn't mean the same thing. Before, it was when the creature entered the area of the spell; ie the creature had to move or be moved. Now, the emanation can touch an unmoving enemy and it taps. The CASTER can move it into range and it causes a tap, and he can move around to touch multiple creatures. And since it's per turn, your friendly barbarian can grapple the caster, then run around when the caster voluntarily fails their save, and re-tap them all because it's a new turn.
As a DM, I'd probably ban the 2024 version and allow the 2014 version.
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I disagree. This rewording is just a clarification of functionality that already existed. "when the creature enters the area" includes the times when the creature is standing still, and the area moves to interact with that creature. It's just a matter of frame of reference. The creature has still entered the area. He wasn't in the area before, and now he is.
Being dragged around by your teammates is a sick combo here for sure.
Previously: "when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there" ~= "whenever a creature enters the Emanation or starts its turn there [...] A creature makes this save only once per turn."
Now: "whenever the Emanation enters a creature’s space and whenever a creature enters the Emanation or ends its turn there".
This cannot be the same. To be more clear, the opposite is also true now in 2024: if you move the area into the creature's space, the creature must make a Wisdom saving throw.
In fact, something similar happens with Cloudkill.
But, in any case, if this will be a point of friction and endless debate, the rules should clarify this.
To be honest, I don't like this change to the spell, but it is what it is.
There's one change to keep in mind. In 2014, the creatures would make the saving throw at the beginning of their turn. Now it happens at the end of their turn. So it's not that easy to double dip. If you move the emanation to their area they immediately make the saving throw, but once it's their turn, they'll only make it again if they decide to remain inside. It's still an extremely powerful spell, just saying that this change is very relevant to prevent double damage from happening so easily.
There are many spells with similar wording and then similar behaviour, e.g. Conjure Animals:
Whenever the pack moves within 10 feet of a creature you can see and whenever a creature you can see enters a space within 10 feet of the pack or ends its turn there, you can force that creature to make a Dexterity saving throw.
There's one change to keep in mind. In 2014, the creatures would make the saving throw at the beginning of their turn. Now it happens at the end of their turn. So it's not that easy to double dip. If you move the emanation to their area they immediately make the saving throw, but once it's their turn, they'll only make it again if they decide to remain inside. It's still an extremely powerful spell, just saying that this change is very relevant to prevent double damage from happening so easily.
This is a good catch. I missed this change. It appears that this design change has been made to many spells including Moonbeam (from the Sage Advice example). Given this detail, I think that this is a good design change actually. It makes more sense for an AoE's spell effect to immediately affect a creature that interacts with the AoE and the new wording also accounts for AoE effects that can be moved.
So now, when you drop a Moonbeam onto a creature, you don't have to wait for that creature's turn to roll around before applying the damage (and this could easily be forgotten in the chaos of gameplay). Perhaps that's why I assumed that Moonbeam's damage just worked immediately since that makes a lot more sense.
As a sidenote, in Baldur's Gate 3 when you drop a Moonbeam onto a creature it gets damaged immediately and then it gets damaged again when it begins its turn. Maybe that's more powerful than intended though. Moving the saving throw to the end of the creature's turn solves that.
Yeah, I think the new behavior is a lot more intuitive. I've always found the delayed effect of the 2014 version strange, and I'm not the only one in my group that's been caught off guard by it.
This would be too OP if they hadn't also changed the tick timing. But, movung it from the start to end of turn gives the potential target an easy way to dip out of the effect by fleeing. This is some degree of counterplay, and that is always a great thing.
I completely disagree. The old way was awkward, but ok. This...is not ok. Now, as the DM you can spread your 4 monsters around, and the cleric can just run around and touch all 4 of them and hit them for damage. Before, the cleric had to stop so that the largest number of monsters was inside the emenation to take damage when their turn started. The difference between the cleric hitting 1 or 2 monsters, and all 4 monsters is significant.
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I completely disagree. The old way was awkward, but ok. This...is not ok. Now, as the DM you can spread your 4 monsters around, and the cleric can just run around and touch all 4 of them and hit them for damage. Before, the cleric had to stop so that the largest number of monsters was inside the emenation to take damage when their turn started. The difference between the cleric hitting 1 or 2 monsters, and all 4 monsters is significant.
I think opportunity attacks are going to put a stop to it in most actual-play situations.
Yes, you can contrive scenarios where the cleric can run past a line of critters yet still be out of reach, but it's not going to happen. Especially after the cleric manages to pull it off once.
And yes, there are setups where you can arrange for the cleric to not be provoking opportunity attacks. Great. Good for them. They worked up a combo and used it. The need to retreat to avoid being beaten on by a whole bunch of critters who don't wanna eat another round of spirit guardians is an inherent limiting factor. It rewards clever tactical play.
I don't think opportunity attacks will be much of a limiting factor at all, given that a 15' emanation allows you to stay well out of melee range (for most creatures) while still lawnmowering around the battlefield.
I don't thing opportunity attacks will be much of a limiting factor at all, given that a 15' emanation, you can stay well out of melee range (for most creatures) while still lawnmowering around the battlefield.
If the monsters are sparse enough to make this work, the cleric's going to run out of move, unless they're Dashing. At which point, they burned their action, which could've been used for something else more effective.
It can happen, but requires particular circumstances and questionable monster placement.
So, if I move into a creature's space or it moves into the emanation, SG triggers.
BUT, if I spend my whole turn in a creature's space it DOESN'T trigger on my turn.
And then, if the creature chooses to move out of range on it's turn, SG does nothing that round.
That part doesn't make sense to me.
Incentivizes moving back and forth to try to retrigger it since standing still doesn't trigger it unless the creature chooses to stay still on their turn.
Seems like it would make more sense to trigger once per round at one specific point in time - like the END of the player's turn - and just affect targets in the aura at that point.
That way it deals damage just once per round, the player can choose where to apply the emanation that round, and there's no incentive to have the player and everyone else moving the player around all over the place to keep proccing it way more times than if everyone just stood still inside the emanation the whole time.
This approach still gives enemies the ability to try to escape a second hit by moving out of the emanation on their turn unless the player is able to and chooses to pursue and end in range of the enemy on the player's subsequent turn.
Alternatively, if the intent is to give it the potential to deal damage twice per round (which seems like it might be excessive), then it could proc at the end of player's turn and the end of enemy's turn if the enemy is in the emanation at that point. It shouldn't matter whether the emanation moved into the enemy's space during that turn. It's counterintuitive that this should matter since it actually means the enemy spent LESS time in the emanation than if it had spent the whole turn in the emanation.
So, if I move into a creature's space or it moves into the emanation, SG triggers.
BUT, if I spend my whole turn in a creature's space it DOESN'T trigger on my turn.
And then, if the creature chooses to move out of range on it's turn, SG does nothing that round.
That part doesn't make sense to me.
They already got tagged earlier in the round.
Incentivizes moving back and forth to try to retrigger it since standing still doesn't trigger it unless the creature chooses to stay still on their turn.
The enemy is either going to get out to avoid taking more damage, or try to pummel you until you drop concentration. If they do the former, you don't have to back off to re-trigger it. If they do the latter, you'll either have to waste your action withdrawing or eat an opportunity attack.
Seems like it would make more sense to trigger once per round at one specific point in time - like the END of the player's turn - and just affect targets in the aura at that point.
Then enemies could just run in and attack you until one breaks your concentration, and none of them will have suffered any damage.
I'll also point out the 2014 version wasn't just unintuitive for players, it had the potential for absolutely zero payoff if you cast the spell and an enemy outside of the effect broke your concentration before it became one of the targets' turns.
I agree with @InquisitiveCoder, especially the last part about how this kind of spell was understood in 2014. In my opinion, the wording is better now.
Also, just to add many spells still use the "classical" wording "for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there":
The first part of my post was referring to the caster's subsequent round after SG is cast - where the emanation starts in place and the enemy is still in the emanation. Let's say the enemy stayed in range and tried but failed to break the caster's concentration.
Round 2, since the target is already in the emanation, SG doesn't hurt the target during the caster's turn unless the enemy goes out and back into the emanation again. So, for example, if the caster knocks the target back with a push and then retreats a few feet to get the enemy outside of the emanation's range and then moves forward again so the enemy is within the emanation again, the caster can avoid an opportunity attack and can cause SG to trigger on the caster's own turn whereas a caster who just stands next to the target for all of round 2 does not trigger SG on its own turn that round.
Doesn't make sense to me that the caster has to get the target out and back into the emanation to trigger it during the caster's turn. The target being in the emanation during the caster's turn should either be sufficient or not to trigger damage.
Conjure animals uses the same type of language as SG and the spell doesn't seem to be susceptible to taking damage from opportunity attacks making it that much easier with conjure animals to just move them back and forth to damage a bunch of targets on the caster's turn while still forcing enemies to move out or also take damage on their own turn. Meanwhile, conjure animals that just stayed in place focused on a target from last round would do nothing to that target during the caster's turn.
Just seems like the current wording of these spells creates opportunity for manipulation and abuse that could be avoided if these spells just did damage once per round at a specified time (e.g., at the end of the caster's own turn) based on whether the target is within the emanation either at a specific point in the round (e.g., end of caster's turn) or at any point during a round (e.g., damage taken the first time target is within the emanation during a round), rather than triggering every time the target goes in and out of the emanation during a different participant's turn w/in a round (which could theoretically be as many times as there are participants in a fight).
Then enemies could just run in and attack you until one breaks your concentration, and none of them will have suffered any damage.
My suggestion that the damage go at the end of the caster's own turn would not allow for an enemy to avoid damage by running in and out. Wherever the caster is when the caster ends its own turn, that is when and where the emanation would trigger. So, if the caster finishes their movement within range of a target, the target would take SG damage. This would be at the end of the caster's turn so enemy movement would either happen before or after the trigger - on the enemy's own turn.
My basic issue with the 2024 version of the spell is that they took an already very good spell and made it better (the new behavior is probably more intuitive, but there's no way SG needed a buff). If they'd combined the change in function with, say, changing the die to a d6, or changing the damage progress when upcast to 1d per two levels, it would be fine.
Round 2, since the target is already in the emanation, SG doesn't hurt the target during the caster's turn unless the enemy goes out and back into the emanation again. So, for example, if the caster knocks the target back with a push and then retreats a few feet to get the enemy outside of the emanation's range and then moves forward again so the enemy is within the emanation again, the caster can avoid an opportunity attack and can cause SG to trigger on the caster's own turn whereas a caster who just stands next to the target for all of round 2 does not trigger SG on its own turn that round.
Like I said, the cleric is either giving up their action or eating an opportunity attack to re-trigger it. If they go for a shove (which could fail) or Withdraw, they're losing their 2d8 Sacred Flame or 2d12 Toll the Dead for that turn. Add to that the fact that by 5th level you're definitely facing monsters with Multiattack, and you'd have to win multiple coin flips in a row avoiding hits or passing concentration saves on hit just to squeeze a modest amount of extra damage out.
Doesn't make sense to me that the caster has to get the target out and back into the emanation to trigger it during the caster's turn. The target being in the emanation during the caster's turn should either be sufficient or not to trigger damage.
If enemies still take damage when they enter the spell, then you'd be double dipping. I already covered the issues if they don't take damage on the way in.
Just seems like the current wording of these spells creates opportunity for manipulation and abuse that could be avoided if these spells just did damage once per round at a specified time (e.g., at the end of the caster's own turn) based on whether the target is within the emanation either at a specific point in the round (e.g., end of caster's turn) or at any point during a round (e.g., damage taken the first time target is within the emanation during a round), rather than triggering every time the target goes in and out of the emanation during a different participant's turn w/in a round (which could theoretically be as many times as there are participants in a fight).
Both suggestions can be gamed.
My suggestion that the damage go at the end of the caster's own turn would not allow for an enemy to avoid damage by running in and out.
Yes it does. The enemy will move next to the cleric, hit them, and won't suffer consequences until the cleric's turn. The cleric might lose the spell from getting hIt. It's a bad solution.
My basic issue with the 2024 version of the spell is that they took an already very good spell and made it better (the new behavior is probably more intuitive, but there's no way SG needed a buff). If they'd combined the change in function with, say, changing the die to a d6, or changing the damage progress when upcast to 1d per two levels, it would be fine.
I'd hardly call changing the timing of things a buff, but if you think the spell is too strong (which is a point of view I can sympathize with, this spell is one of those one-size-fits-all options that you pretty much always want) the solution is to lower its damage, not giving it stupid mechanics that act contrary to player expectations.
I'll also point out clerics got a major nerf in that Spiritual Weapon is now a concentration spell.
I was hoping the new version would nerf this spell a bit. I've always found it to be an option used pretty much every fight. Passive damage, reduced speed. Selective (doesn't hurt your allies). But the new version is, on my reading more powerful. It allows the caster to move and as new creatures enter the emanation's area of effect, they need to save and take the damage. This means a caster can run through a swath of enemies and do damage to dozens or more. Combined with longstrider, haste or other movement powers/abilities, this becomes a real divine bull dozer. Not a lot of spells allow for that, most require the targets be there at the end of their turns or at least the beginning. This can all happen in the caster's turn. Am I reading this correctly?
And, it still causes damage on the turns of other creatures. So you can really double dip over a combat round.
I read this spell as functioning exactly the same as it did in 2014. In 2014 when an AoE spell had a Range of "self" and targeted the spellcaster, that AoE would move along with the spellcaster since the spellcaster's body was the point of origin for the AoE.
The phrase "when the creature enters the area for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there" has been changed to "whenever the Emanation enters a creature’s space and whenever a creature enters the Emanation or ends its turn there". This is just a clarification. Mechanically, these mean the same thing, but it's just written a bit more clearly in 2024.
And yeah, this seems WAY overpowered for a 3rd level spell. Even at just a default speed of 30 you can affect an area that's larger than a Fireball spell in a single turn while causing about 50% of Fireball's damage, you can cause quite a bit more damage when it's not your turn, and you can repeat this every round for 10 minutes all on the same spell slot. I suppose if you are trying to avoid opportunity attacks while you run around then your effective AoE size becomes quite a bit smaller, and theoretically you could lose concentration on the spell at some point, but still . . .
no, it doesn't mean the same thing. Before, it was when the creature entered the area of the spell; ie the creature had to move or be moved. Now, the emanation can touch an unmoving enemy and it taps. The CASTER can move it into range and it causes a tap, and he can move around to touch multiple creatures. And since it's per turn, your friendly barbarian can grapple the caster, then run around when the caster voluntarily fails their save, and re-tap them all because it's a new turn.
As a DM, I'd probably ban the 2024 version and allow the 2014 version.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I disagree. This rewording is just a clarification of functionality that already existed. "when the creature enters the area" includes the times when the creature is standing still, and the area moves to interact with that creature. It's just a matter of frame of reference. The creature has still entered the area. He wasn't in the area before, and now he is.
Being dragged around by your teammates is a sick combo here for sure.
Clearly, it's not the same.
If in the 2014 PHB this only meant what was clarified in the Sage Advice Compendium ("Does moonbeam deal damage when you cast it? What about when its effect moves onto a creature?"), then...
This cannot be the same. To be more clear, the opposite is also true now in 2024: if you move the area into the creature's space, the creature must make a Wisdom saving throw.
In fact, something similar happens with Cloudkill.
But, in any case, if this will be a point of friction and endless debate, the rules should clarify this.
To be honest, I don't like this change to the spell, but it is what it is.
There's one change to keep in mind. In 2014, the creatures would make the saving throw at the beginning of their turn. Now it happens at the end of their turn. So it's not that easy to double dip. If you move the emanation to their area they immediately make the saving throw, but once it's their turn, they'll only make it again if they decide to remain inside. It's still an extremely powerful spell, just saying that this change is very relevant to prevent double damage from happening so easily.
Very true.
There are many spells with similar wording and then similar behaviour, e.g. Conjure Animals:
Fair enough. I change my mind. The Sage Advice interpretation and explanation was very reasonable in this case.
This is a good catch. I missed this change. It appears that this design change has been made to many spells including Moonbeam (from the Sage Advice example). Given this detail, I think that this is a good design change actually. It makes more sense for an AoE's spell effect to immediately affect a creature that interacts with the AoE and the new wording also accounts for AoE effects that can be moved.
So now, when you drop a Moonbeam onto a creature, you don't have to wait for that creature's turn to roll around before applying the damage (and this could easily be forgotten in the chaos of gameplay). Perhaps that's why I assumed that Moonbeam's damage just worked immediately since that makes a lot more sense.
As a sidenote, in Baldur's Gate 3 when you drop a Moonbeam onto a creature it gets damaged immediately and then it gets damaged again when it begins its turn. Maybe that's more powerful than intended though. Moving the saving throw to the end of the creature's turn solves that.
Yeah, I think the new behavior is a lot more intuitive. I've always found the delayed effect of the 2014 version strange, and I'm not the only one in my group that's been caught off guard by it.
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This would be too OP if they hadn't also changed the tick timing. But, movung it from the start to end of turn gives the potential target an easy way to dip out of the effect by fleeing. This is some degree of counterplay, and that is always a great thing.
I got quotes!
I completely disagree. The old way was awkward, but ok. This...is not ok. Now, as the DM you can spread your 4 monsters around, and the cleric can just run around and touch all 4 of them and hit them for damage. Before, the cleric had to stop so that the largest number of monsters was inside the emenation to take damage when their turn started. The difference between the cleric hitting 1 or 2 monsters, and all 4 monsters is significant.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I think opportunity attacks are going to put a stop to it in most actual-play situations.
Yes, you can contrive scenarios where the cleric can run past a line of critters yet still be out of reach, but it's not going to happen. Especially after the cleric manages to pull it off once.
And yes, there are setups where you can arrange for the cleric to not be provoking opportunity attacks. Great. Good for them. They worked up a combo and used it. The need to retreat to avoid being beaten on by a whole bunch of critters who don't wanna eat another round of spirit guardians is an inherent limiting factor. It rewards clever tactical play.
I don't think opportunity attacks will be much of a limiting factor at all, given that a 15' emanation allows you to stay well out of melee range (for most creatures) while still lawnmowering around the battlefield.
If the monsters are sparse enough to make this work, the cleric's going to run out of move, unless they're Dashing. At which point, they burned their action, which could've been used for something else more effective.
It can happen, but requires particular circumstances and questionable monster placement.
So, if I move into a creature's space or it moves into the emanation, SG triggers.
BUT, if I spend my whole turn in a creature's space it DOESN'T trigger on my turn.
And then, if the creature chooses to move out of range on it's turn, SG does nothing that round.
That part doesn't make sense to me.
Incentivizes moving back and forth to try to retrigger it since standing still doesn't trigger it unless the creature chooses to stay still on their turn.
Seems like it would make more sense to trigger once per round at one specific point in time - like the END of the player's turn - and just affect targets in the aura at that point.
That way it deals damage just once per round, the player can choose where to apply the emanation that round, and there's no incentive to have the player and everyone else moving the player around all over the place to keep proccing it way more times than if everyone just stood still inside the emanation the whole time.
This approach still gives enemies the ability to try to escape a second hit by moving out of the emanation on their turn unless the player is able to and chooses to pursue and end in range of the enemy on the player's subsequent turn.
Alternatively, if the intent is to give it the potential to deal damage twice per round (which seems like it might be excessive), then it could proc at the end of player's turn and the end of enemy's turn if the enemy is in the emanation at that point. It shouldn't matter whether the emanation moved into the enemy's space during that turn. It's counterintuitive that this should matter since it actually means the enemy spent LESS time in the emanation than if it had spent the whole turn in the emanation.
They already got tagged earlier in the round.
The enemy is either going to get out to avoid taking more damage, or try to pummel you until you drop concentration. If they do the former, you don't have to back off to re-trigger it. If they do the latter, you'll either have to waste your action withdrawing or eat an opportunity attack.
Then enemies could just run in and attack you until one breaks your concentration, and none of them will have suffered any damage.
I'll also point out the 2014 version wasn't just unintuitive for players, it had the potential for absolutely zero payoff if you cast the spell and an enemy outside of the effect broke your concentration before it became one of the targets' turns.
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I agree with @InquisitiveCoder, especially the last part about how this kind of spell was understood in 2014. In my opinion, the wording is better now.
Also, just to add many spells still use the "classical" wording "for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there":
So, depending on the specific spell, your strategies are different, and this is fun ;)
They already got tagged earlier in the round.
The first part of my post was referring to the caster's subsequent round after SG is cast - where the emanation starts in place and the enemy is still in the emanation. Let's say the enemy stayed in range and tried but failed to break the caster's concentration.
Round 2, since the target is already in the emanation, SG doesn't hurt the target during the caster's turn unless the enemy goes out and back into the emanation again. So, for example, if the caster knocks the target back with a push and then retreats a few feet to get the enemy outside of the emanation's range and then moves forward again so the enemy is within the emanation again, the caster can avoid an opportunity attack and can cause SG to trigger on the caster's own turn whereas a caster who just stands next to the target for all of round 2 does not trigger SG on its own turn that round.
Doesn't make sense to me that the caster has to get the target out and back into the emanation to trigger it during the caster's turn. The target being in the emanation during the caster's turn should either be sufficient or not to trigger damage.
Conjure animals uses the same type of language as SG and the spell doesn't seem to be susceptible to taking damage from opportunity attacks making it that much easier with conjure animals to just move them back and forth to damage a bunch of targets on the caster's turn while still forcing enemies to move out or also take damage on their own turn. Meanwhile, conjure animals that just stayed in place focused on a target from last round would do nothing to that target during the caster's turn.
Just seems like the current wording of these spells creates opportunity for manipulation and abuse that could be avoided if these spells just did damage once per round at a specified time (e.g., at the end of the caster's own turn) based on whether the target is within the emanation either at a specific point in the round (e.g., end of caster's turn) or at any point during a round (e.g., damage taken the first time target is within the emanation during a round), rather than triggering every time the target goes in and out of the emanation during a different participant's turn w/in a round (which could theoretically be as many times as there are participants in a fight).
Then enemies could just run in and attack you until one breaks your concentration, and none of them will have suffered any damage.
My suggestion that the damage go at the end of the caster's own turn would not allow for an enemy to avoid damage by running in and out. Wherever the caster is when the caster ends its own turn, that is when and where the emanation would trigger. So, if the caster finishes their movement within range of a target, the target would take SG damage. This would be at the end of the caster's turn so enemy movement would either happen before or after the trigger - on the enemy's own turn.
My basic issue with the 2024 version of the spell is that they took an already very good spell and made it better (the new behavior is probably more intuitive, but there's no way SG needed a buff). If they'd combined the change in function with, say, changing the die to a d6, or changing the damage progress when upcast to 1d per two levels, it would be fine.
Like I said, the cleric is either giving up their action or eating an opportunity attack to re-trigger it. If they go for a shove (which could fail) or Withdraw, they're losing their 2d8 Sacred Flame or 2d12 Toll the Dead for that turn. Add to that the fact that by 5th level you're definitely facing monsters with Multiattack, and you'd have to win multiple coin flips in a row avoiding hits or passing concentration saves on hit just to squeeze a modest amount of extra damage out.
If enemies still take damage when they enter the spell, then you'd be double dipping. I already covered the issues if they don't take damage on the way in.
Both suggestions can be gamed.
Yes it does. The enemy will move next to the cleric, hit them, and won't suffer consequences until the cleric's turn. The cleric might lose the spell from getting hIt. It's a bad solution.
I'd hardly call changing the timing of things a buff, but if you think the spell is too strong (which is a point of view I can sympathize with, this spell is one of those one-size-fits-all options that you pretty much always want) the solution is to lower its damage, not giving it stupid mechanics that act contrary to player expectations.
I'll also point out clerics got a major nerf in that Spiritual Weapon is now a concentration spell.
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