Maybe I'm dense, but I don't find the rules clear about when the nick property kicks in. For example:
Player dual-wields a short sword (vex) and dagger (nick). Player attacks with the short sword first. Can the player then exercise the dagger's nick property to make the second attack as part of the attack action, or would nick only apply if the dagger was used for the first attack? In other words, does the nick weapon always have to "lead" for the player to utilize that mastery?
You follow the Light weapon property and the attack you would get as a bonus action happens as part of the attack action. So you would make the attack with a light weapon and then the Nick weapon. If you have Extra Attack it doesn’t matter which weapon you use for one of those two attacks (shortsword S or dagger D, in your example) but after that the Nick weapon goes. So you could do S, S, D or D, S, D.
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
So, at the moment that you are about to use your Bonus Action to make an extra attack with a second Light weapon (as allowed by the rule for the Light property):
-- IF you have a Feature such as Weapon Mastery AND you are about to attack with a weapon that has the Nick mastery property (such as a Dagger) AND that weapon type is currently selected as one of your mastered weapon types . . .
-- THEN you can make the above extra attack with that weapon without using your Bonus Action.
Maybe I'm dense, but I don't find the rules clear about when the nick property kicks in. For example:
Player dual-wields a short sword (vex) and dagger (nick). Player attacks with the short sword first. Can the player then exercise the dagger's nick property to make the second attack as part of the attack action, or would nick only apply if the dagger was used for the first attack? In other words, does the nick weapon always have to "lead" for the player to utilize that mastery?
The Nick Mastery doesn't have to lead but Light property. How it works when you have Weapon Mastery feature is;
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a shortsword, you can make one extra attack as part of the Attack action with the dagger you're welding with Nick. You don't have to but if you do, it's not made as a Bonus Action later on the same turn but as part of the Attack action currently taken.
Light: When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Nick: When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Maybe I'm dense, but I don't find the rules clear about when the nick property kicks in. For example:
Player dual-wields a short sword (vex) and dagger (nick). Player attacks with the short sword first. Can the player then exercise the dagger's nick property to make the second attack as part of the attack action, or would nick only apply if the dagger was used for the first attack? In other words, does the nick weapon always have to "lead" for the player to utilize that mastery?
The Nick Mastery doesn't have to lead but Light property. How it works when you have Weapon Mastery feature is;
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a shortsword, you can make one extra attack as part of the Attack action with the dagger you're welding with Nick. You don't have to but if you do, it's not made as a Bonus Action later on the same turn but as part of the Attack action currently taken.
Light: When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Nick: When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
Not to be too difficult, but any reason why Nick is the only weapon mastery that doesn't indicate that it happens when you attack with "this weapon"? I'm trying to find the RAW that says you have to attack with the Nick weapon at all to gain the benefit of the Weapon Mastery. That's ridiculous, but I just can't figure out why every other mastery clarifies the weapon making the attack and Nick doesn't. As written, could you also attack with a dagger (Nick) first and then get the extra attack as part of the Action with a non-nick weapon?
It's because you explicitly cannot use "this weapon" when making an attack that uses the Nick property, because that property uses the mechanic of the Light property:
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon
So, the "extra attack of the Light property" refers to the second attack of that sequence, and the weapon that is used for that particular attack must have the Nick Mastery Property in order to benefit from the rule that is specified for the Nick Mastery Property.
It's because you explicitly cannot use "this weapon" when making an attack that uses the Nick property, because that property uses the mechanic of the Light property:
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon
So, the "extra attack of the Light property" refers to the second attack of that sequence, and the weapon that is used for that particular attack must have the Nick Mastery Property in order to benefit from the rule that is specified for the Nick Mastery Property.
I still don't think it is clear. My initial reading Assumed you had to attack with both a light weapon and a weapon with nick, in order for the bonus action attack to go to the attack action, which you could then attack with a weapon with Vex. It came across as weird that you had to attack with a dagger first. But that would work the same way that all the other mastery properties work.
It wasn't until someone mentioned the opposite order that I was like, that sounds like probably how it should go, but it is still odd it is the only weapon master that doesn't follow the same pattern as the others.
After rereading it, I think I see what you guys are getting at. I change my mind on what I said earlier. It should probably say something like "When you make the extra attack of the Light property with this weapon . . .". Without that phrase, there actually might technically be an issue with how its written.
First, we start with:
The Weapons table in this section shows the game’s main weapons. The table lists the cost and weight of each weapon, as well as the following details:
then
Mastery. Each weapon has a mastery property, which is defined in the “Mastery Properties” section later in this chapter. To use that property, you must have a feature that lets you use it.
and also
Each weapon has a mastery property, which is usable only by a character who has a feature, such as Weapon Mastery, that unlocks the property for the character. The properties are defined below.
Example Feature -- Fighter's Weapon Mastery:
Your training with weapons allows you to use the mastery properties of three kinds of Simple or Martial weapons of your choice . . .
So, the weapon itself has a property that is categorized as a mastery property. If you have a certain feature, such as Weapon Mastery (and that particular weapon type is chosen), it unlocks the property for the character (not for the weapon, but for the character), allowing the character to use the property. Without such a feature, this weapon property is unusable.
So, how does a character use one of these properties? Presumably, by attacking with a weapon that has that property -- BUT -- the above general rules do not actually say that! Instead, the details are left to each of the specific rules for each individual type of mastery property to define the prerequisites for that property's use.
There is a rule for each type of mastery property which defines exactly how it can be used by the character. In most of these rules, the particular weapon that has that property must be used in a certain way, because the rule for that property says so. Typically, you must hit a creature with "this weapon" (the weapon that has this mastery property that's being defined). In one case, you must only attack a creature with "this weapon" (hit or miss).
But as written, that doesn't appear to be the case for the Nick property. It's not explicit that the weapon that has the Nick property needs to be used in any particular way in order for the character to use that property. All that is needed is for the character to have this property "unlocked" in order to use it -- and then the property can be used in the manner described in the rule for the Nick Mastery Property. To "unlock" the property, you simply must have a feature that lets you unlock it, and then that particular mastery type must be chosen / selected.
In fact, as written, technically you do not even need to be in possession of a weapon that has this mastery property. You are only required to "unlock" the ability to use the property, and that does not require possession of any particular weapon.
Once "unlocked", as per the rule for the Nick property, all that you need to do to use the Nick property is to be making an Extra attack of the Light property (the particular weapons involved are not specified).
I'm quite sure that none of the above interpretation was actually the design intent.
The weapon has a mastery property that your training allow you to use, so you can't do so without it.
I don't think the extra attack with a different Light weapon can be made as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action without Nick Mastery.
Mastery. Each weapon has a mastery property, which is defined in the “Mastery Properties” section later in this chapter. To use that property, you must have a feature that lets you use it.
The weapon has a mastery property that your training allow you to use, so you can't do so without it.
I don't think the extra attack with a different Light weapon can be made as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action without Nick Mastery.
Mastery. Each weapon has a mastery property, which is defined in the “Mastery Properties” section later in this chapter. To use that property, you must have a feature that lets you use it.
Although what you've said here is very likely the intent, that's not what is actually written. I've quoted all of the relevant rules above. All of the general rules only require you to have a feature that unlocks your ability to use the mastery property. Actually wielding or using the weapon in any particular way is not required to be able to use any mastery property according to the general rules. Instead, each and every specific rule that is associated with a particular mastery property specifies which weapon needs to be used and how it must be used in order to use the property. However, the Nick mastery property lacks this wording.
It's just a simple oversight by the author and is easily corrected by just saying ""When you make the extra attack of the Light property with this weapon . . ."
The weapon has a mastery property that your training allow you to use, so you can't do so without it.
I don't think the extra attack with a different Light weapon can be made as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action without Nick Mastery.
Mastery. Each weapon has a mastery property, which is defined in the “Mastery Properties” section later in this chapter. To use that property, you must have a feature that lets you use it.
Although what you've said here is very likely the intent, that's not what is actually written. I've quoted all of the relevant rules above. All of the general rules only require you to have a feature that unlocks your ability to use the mastery property. Actually wielding or using the weapon in any particular way is not required to be able to use any mastery property according to the general rules. Instead, each and every specific rule that is associated with a particular mastery property specifies which weapon needs to be used and how it must be used in order to use the property. However, the Nick mastery property lacks this wording.
It's just a simple oversight by the author and is easily corrected by just saying ""When you make the extra attack of the Light property with this weapon . . ."
Unless that wasn't the intent and Nick follows the pattern of all the other weapon masteries. I.e. You must use the weapon to attack, then Nick moves the bonus action attack that you take later to the attack action (which would need to be made with a light weapon per the light property.)
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
Unless that wasn't the intent and Nick follows the pattern of all the other weapon masteries. I.e. You must use the weapon to attack, then Nick moves the bonus action attack that you take later to the attack action (which would need to be made with a light weapon per the light property.)
In order to follow the same pattern, it must actually say that it does. The Nick mastery property lacks the wording that all of the other mastery property descriptions use.
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
Yep, even without them saying so, this is pretty obviously the intent.
However, what is written in the rules is that these properties are unlocked simply by having the feature that unlocks them. For the Fighter's version of the feature, for example, the "training" which creates your "mastery with the weapon" actually occurs either when you first gain the feature or during a long rest.
When it's time to actually use the weapon mastery property that has been mastered by the character, the property itself will specify how the weapon must be used in order to gain the benefit of that mastery property. The Nick property just doesn't specify this in the way that all of the other properties do.
It's just a simple oversight and a very easy fix (just add 3 words to the description) if they ever bother to fix it. Meanwhile, we will all just house rule it in the common sense way.
Unless that wasn't the intent and Nick follows the pattern of all the other weapon masteries. I.e. You must use the weapon to attack, then Nick moves the bonus action attack that you take later to the attack action (which would need to be made with a light weapon per the light property.)
In order to follow the same pattern, it must actually say that it does. The Nick mastery property lacks the wording that all of the other mastery property descriptions use.
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
Yep, even without them saying so, this is pretty obviously the intent.
However, what is written in the rules is that these properties are unlocked simply by having the feature that unlocks them. For the Fighter's version of the feature, for example, the "training" which creates your "mastery with the weapon" actually occurs either when you first gain the feature or during a long rest.
When it's time to actually use the weapon mastery property that has been mastered by the character, the property itself will specify how the weapon must be used in order to gain the benefit of that mastery property. The Nick property just doesn't specify this in the way that all of the other properties do.
It's just a simple oversight and a very easy fix (just add 3 words to the description) if they ever bother to fix it. Meanwhile, we will all just house rule it in the common sense way.
I would argue that given this thread and my initial reading of the Nick property, it isn't that obvious.
Unless that wasn't the intent and Nick follows the pattern of all the other weapon masteries. I.e. You must use the weapon to attack, then Nick moves the bonus action attack that you take later to the attack action (which would need to be made with a light weapon per the light property.)
In order to follow the same pattern, it must actually say that it does. The Nick mastery property lacks the wording that all of the other mastery property descriptions use.
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
Yep, even without them saying so, this is pretty obviously the intent.
However, what is written in the rules is that these properties are unlocked simply by having the feature that unlocks them. For the Fighter's version of the feature, for example, the "training" which creates your "mastery with the weapon" actually occurs either when you first gain the feature or during a long rest.
When it's time to actually use the weapon mastery property that has been mastered by the character, the property itself will specify how the weapon must be used in order to gain the benefit of that mastery property. The Nick property just doesn't specify this in the way that all of the other properties do.
It's just a simple oversight and a very easy fix (just add 3 words to the description) if they ever bother to fix it. Meanwhile, we will all just house rule it in the common sense way.
I would argue that given this thread and my initial reading of the Nick property, it isn't that obvious.
I completely agree.
From a house rule perspective, sure just use whatever you feel like. But people look at the official rules for guidance and the intended way of things should be crystal clear.
Attack with a dagger to activate the Nick property, so that the second attack with a different light weapon can then be made as part of the same attack action.
Make the second attack with a Nick weapon in order to make that attack as part of the same attack action.
Both interpretations make sense to me and I find nothing in the rules (or this thread) that convinces me that either one should be used over the other. Which one you choose to go with can have pretty huge implication e.g. for a rogue dual-wielding a dagger and shortsword.
Unless that wasn't the intent and Nick follows the pattern of all the other weapon masteries. I.e. You must use the weapon to attack, then Nick moves the bonus action attack that you take later to the attack action (which would need to be made with a light weapon per the light property.)
In order to follow the same pattern, it must actually say that it does. The Nick mastery property lacks the wording that all of the other mastery property descriptions use.
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
Yep, even without them saying so, this is pretty obviously the intent.
However, what is written in the rules is that these properties are unlocked simply by having the feature that unlocks them. For the Fighter's version of the feature, for example, the "training" which creates your "mastery with the weapon" actually occurs either when you first gain the feature or during a long rest.
When it's time to actually use the weapon mastery property that has been mastered by the character, the property itself will specify how the weapon must be used in order to gain the benefit of that mastery property. The Nick property just doesn't specify this in the way that all of the other properties do.
It's just a simple oversight and a very easy fix (just add 3 words to the description) if they ever bother to fix it. Meanwhile, we will all just house rule it in the common sense way.
I would argue that given this thread and my initial reading of the Nick property, it isn't that obvious.
I completely agree.
From a house rule perspective, sure just use whatever you feel like. But people look at the official rules for guidance and the intended way of things should be crystal clear.
Attack with a dagger to activate the Nick property, so that the second attack with a different light weapon can then be made as part of the same attack action.
Make the second attack with a Nick weapon in order to make that attack as part of the same attack action.
Both interpretations make sense to me and I find nothing in the rules (or this thread) that convinces me that either one should be used over the other. Which one you choose to go with can have pretty huge implication e.g. for a rogue dual-wielding a dagger and shortsword.
While I initially thought number one was the correct way to go since all other Weapon Masteries require you to use the weapon first to trigger the weapon mastery, it is so weird having to tell players they need to attack with their dagger first to trigger the ability regardless of whether or not they hit. I think from a pure ease of play, option 2 just makes it a lot easier because then you take all your main attacks, then the extra attacks.
It almost doesn't matter with the rogue. It really just determines whether or not they could have advantage in round 1 with the dagger. After that, they will still get advantage with the dagger attack.
If you’re wielding a weapon and have learned its mastery property, you’ll be able to use that mastery property every turn when you make an attack with the weapon.
Unless that wasn't the intent and Nick follows the pattern of all the other weapon masteries. I.e. You must use the weapon to attack, then Nick moves the bonus action attack that you take later to the attack action (which would need to be made with a light weapon per the light property.)
In order to follow the same pattern, it must actually say that it does. The Nick mastery property lacks the wording that all of the other mastery property descriptions use.
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
Yep, even without them saying so, this is pretty obviously the intent.
However, what is written in the rules is that these properties are unlocked simply by having the feature that unlocks them. For the Fighter's version of the feature, for example, the "training" which creates your "mastery with the weapon" actually occurs either when you first gain the feature or during a long rest.
When it's time to actually use the weapon mastery property that has been mastered by the character, the property itself will specify how the weapon must be used in order to gain the benefit of that mastery property. The Nick property just doesn't specify this in the way that all of the other properties do.
It's just a simple oversight and a very easy fix (just add 3 words to the description) if they ever bother to fix it. Meanwhile, we will all just house rule it in the common sense way.
I would argue that given this thread and my initial reading of the Nick property, it isn't that obvious.
I completely agree.
From a house rule perspective, sure just use whatever you feel like. But people look at the official rules for guidance and the intended way of things should be crystal clear.
Attack with a dagger to activate the Nick property, so that the second attack with a different light weapon can then be made as part of the same attack action.
Make the second attack with a Nick weapon in order to make that attack as part of the same attack action.
Both interpretations make sense to me and I find nothing in the rules (or this thread) that convinces me that either one should be used over the other. Which one you choose to go with can have pretty huge implication e.g. for a rogue dual-wielding a dagger and shortsword.
While I initially thought number one was the correct way to go since all other Weapon Masteries require you to use the weapon first to trigger the weapon mastery, it is so weird having to tell players they need to attack with their dagger first to trigger the ability regardless of whether or not they hit. I think from a pure ease of play, option 2 just makes it a lot easier because then you take all your main attacks, then the extra attacks.
It almost doesn't matter with the rogue. It really just determines whether or not they could have advantage in round 1 with the dagger. After that, they will still get advantage with the dagger attack.
Well if they fight a bunch of low HP/AC mobs it can make the difference of having sneak attack every round or not.
If you’re wielding a weapon and have learned its mastery property, you’ll be able to use that mastery property every turn when you make an attack with the weapon.
Yeah you're probably right. It's so weird though that they decided to not have with this weapon as part of the description.
Maybe I'm dense, but I don't find the rules clear about when the nick property kicks in. For example:
Player dual-wields a short sword (vex) and dagger (nick). Player attacks with the short sword first. Can the player then exercise the dagger's nick property to make the second attack as part of the attack action, or would nick only apply if the dagger was used for the first attack? In other words, does the nick weapon always have to "lead" for the player to utilize that mastery?
You follow the Light weapon property and the attack you would get as a bonus action happens as part of the attack action. So you would make the attack with a light weapon and then the Nick weapon. If you have Extra Attack it doesn’t matter which weapon you use for one of those two attacks (shortsword S or dagger D, in your example) but after that the Nick weapon goes. So you could do S, S, D or D, S, D.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
So, at the moment that you are about to use your Bonus Action to make an extra attack with a second Light weapon (as allowed by the rule for the Light property):
-- IF you have a Feature such as Weapon Mastery AND you are about to attack with a weapon that has the Nick mastery property (such as a Dagger) AND that weapon type is currently selected as one of your mastered weapon types . . .
-- THEN you can make the above extra attack with that weapon without using your Bonus Action.
The Nick Mastery doesn't have to lead but Light property. How it works when you have Weapon Mastery feature is;
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a shortsword, you can make one extra attack as part of the Attack action with the dagger you're welding with Nick. You don't have to but if you do, it's not made as a Bonus Action later on the same turn but as part of the Attack action currently taken.
Not to be too difficult, but any reason why Nick is the only weapon mastery that doesn't indicate that it happens when you attack with "this weapon"? I'm trying to find the RAW that says you have to attack with the Nick weapon at all to gain the benefit of the Weapon Mastery. That's ridiculous, but I just can't figure out why every other mastery clarifies the weapon making the attack and Nick doesn't. As written, could you also attack with a dagger (Nick) first and then get the extra attack as part of the Action with a non-nick weapon?
It's because you explicitly cannot use "this weapon" when making an attack that uses the Nick property, because that property uses the mechanic of the Light property:
So, the "extra attack of the Light property" refers to the second attack of that sequence, and the weapon that is used for that particular attack must have the Nick Mastery Property in order to benefit from the rule that is specified for the Nick Mastery Property.
I still don't think it is clear. My initial reading Assumed you had to attack with both a light weapon and a weapon with nick, in order for the bonus action attack to go to the attack action, which you could then attack with a weapon with Vex. It came across as weird that you had to attack with a dagger first. But that would work the same way that all the other mastery properties work.
It wasn't until someone mentioned the opposite order that I was like, that sounds like probably how it should go, but it is still odd it is the only weapon master that doesn't follow the same pattern as the others.
After rereading it, I think I see what you guys are getting at. I change my mind on what I said earlier. It should probably say something like "When you make the extra attack of the Light property with this weapon . . .". Without that phrase, there actually might technically be an issue with how its written.
First, we start with:
then
and also
Example Feature -- Fighter's Weapon Mastery:
So, the weapon itself has a property that is categorized as a mastery property. If you have a certain feature, such as Weapon Mastery (and that particular weapon type is chosen), it unlocks the property for the character (not for the weapon, but for the character), allowing the character to use the property. Without such a feature, this weapon property is unusable.
So, how does a character use one of these properties? Presumably, by attacking with a weapon that has that property -- BUT -- the above general rules do not actually say that! Instead, the details are left to each of the specific rules for each individual type of mastery property to define the prerequisites for that property's use.
There is a rule for each type of mastery property which defines exactly how it can be used by the character. In most of these rules, the particular weapon that has that property must be used in a certain way, because the rule for that property says so. Typically, you must hit a creature with "this weapon" (the weapon that has this mastery property that's being defined). In one case, you must only attack a creature with "this weapon" (hit or miss).
But as written, that doesn't appear to be the case for the Nick property. It's not explicit that the weapon that has the Nick property needs to be used in any particular way in order for the character to use that property. All that is needed is for the character to have this property "unlocked" in order to use it -- and then the property can be used in the manner described in the rule for the Nick Mastery Property. To "unlock" the property, you simply must have a feature that lets you unlock it, and then that particular mastery type must be chosen / selected.
In fact, as written, technically you do not even need to be in possession of a weapon that has this mastery property. You are only required to "unlock" the ability to use the property, and that does not require possession of any particular weapon.
Once "unlocked", as per the rule for the Nick property, all that you need to do to use the Nick property is to be making an Extra attack of the Light property (the particular weapons involved are not specified).
I'm quite sure that none of the above interpretation was actually the design intent.
The weapon has a mastery property that your training allow you to use, so you can't do so without it.
I don't think the extra attack with a different Light weapon can be made as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action without Nick Mastery.
Although what you've said here is very likely the intent, that's not what is actually written. I've quoted all of the relevant rules above. All of the general rules only require you to have a feature that unlocks your ability to use the mastery property. Actually wielding or using the weapon in any particular way is not required to be able to use any mastery property according to the general rules. Instead, each and every specific rule that is associated with a particular mastery property specifies which weapon needs to be used and how it must be used in order to use the property. However, the Nick mastery property lacks this wording.
It's just a simple oversight by the author and is easily corrected by just saying ""When you make the extra attack of the Light property with this weapon . . ."
Unless that wasn't the intent and Nick follows the pattern of all the other weapon masteries. I.e. You must use the weapon to attack, then Nick moves the bonus action attack that you take later to the attack action (which would need to be made with a light weapon per the light property.)
We know from this video with Devs that Weapon Mastery is intended to be used with their weapon respectively.
'If you're a character,, wether a fighter, a barbarian, a rogue a paladin, a ranger or someone who has otherwised unlocked the ability to use Weapon Mastery, suddenly when you use the dagger, because of your mastery with the weapon, you will be able to unlock its mastery property''
New Weapon Mastery | 2024 Player's Handbook | D&D (youtube.com) (01:00)
In order to follow the same pattern, it must actually say that it does. The Nick mastery property lacks the wording that all of the other mastery property descriptions use.
Yep, even without them saying so, this is pretty obviously the intent.
However, what is written in the rules is that these properties are unlocked simply by having the feature that unlocks them. For the Fighter's version of the feature, for example, the "training" which creates your "mastery with the weapon" actually occurs either when you first gain the feature or during a long rest.
When it's time to actually use the weapon mastery property that has been mastered by the character, the property itself will specify how the weapon must be used in order to gain the benefit of that mastery property. The Nick property just doesn't specify this in the way that all of the other properties do.
It's just a simple oversight and a very easy fix (just add 3 words to the description) if they ever bother to fix it. Meanwhile, we will all just house rule it in the common sense way.
I would argue that given this thread and my initial reading of the Nick property, it isn't that obvious.
I completely agree.
From a house rule perspective, sure just use whatever you feel like. But people look at the official rules for guidance and the intended way of things should be crystal clear.
Both interpretations make sense to me and I find nothing in the rules (or this thread) that convinces me that either one should be used over the other. Which one you choose to go with can have pretty huge implication e.g. for a rogue dual-wielding a dagger and shortsword.
While I initially thought number one was the correct way to go since all other Weapon Masteries require you to use the weapon first to trigger the weapon mastery, it is so weird having to tell players they need to attack with their dagger first to trigger the ability regardless of whether or not they hit. I think from a pure ease of play, option 2 just makes it a lot easier because then you take all your main attacks, then the extra attacks.
It almost doesn't matter with the rogue. It really just determines whether or not they could have advantage in round 1 with the dagger. After that, they will still get advantage with the dagger attack.
According to the article release on Your Guide to Weapon Mastery in the 2024 Player's Handbook., #02 seems like the intended interpretation.
Well if they fight a bunch of low HP/AC mobs it can make the difference of having sneak attack every round or not.
Yeah you're probably right. It's so weird though that they decided to not have with this weapon as part of the description.
I agree itt's weird, taken that all other Weapon Mastery propertdies do.