The 2014 player's handbook includes the following text.
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.
I can find no such equivalent in the 2024 counterpart or Free Rules. Nothing which even addresses a possible conflict. Am I missing something, or are newcomers left out in the cold?
The 2014 player's handbook includes the following text.
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.
I can find no such equivalent in the 2024 counterpart or Free Rules. Nothing which even addresses a possible conflict. Am I missing something, or are newcomers left out in the cold?
I'm not sure it should ever come up except in rare instances.
The 2014 player's handbook includes the following text.
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.
I can find no such equivalent in the 2024 counterpart or Free Rules. Nothing which even addresses a possible conflict. Am I missing something, or are newcomers left out in the cold?
I'm not sure it should ever come up except in rare instances.
It actually can come up more easily with the new order of character creation. As you select your class first, it’s easy to select a proficiency then discover it’s also granted by your subsequent background choice. It can also occur when certain subclasses grant a bonus proficiency.
The character builder seems to spot duplicate proficiencies and makes you choose an alternative, so it suggests that the rule to allow swaps of duplicates is still in the 2024 PHB (unless it’s just a functionality that’s hung over in DDB).
Correct. There's no species/background conflict in the new book as a standalone entity, at the very least, with Elf being the only one that gets skills from a limited list. No background grants more than 1 of the listed skills in the Elf list, which means the 2 from background don't stop you from taking one of the other two in the Elf list. And no class has fewer than 5 skills to pick from (or 3+the number you select as part of that class).
The 2014 player's handbook includes the following text.
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.
I can find no such equivalent in the 2024 counterpart or Free Rules. Nothing which even addresses a possible conflict. Am I missing something, or are newcomers left out in the cold?
I'm not sure it should ever come up except in rare instances.
It actually can come up more easily with the new order of character creation. As you select your class first, it’s easy to select a proficiency then discover it’s also granted by your subsequent background choice. It can also occur when certain subclasses grant a bonus proficiency.
The character builder seems to spot duplicate proficiencies and makes you choose an alternative, so it suggests that the rule to allow swaps of duplicates is still in the 2024 PHB (unless it’s just a functionality that’s hung over in DDB).
Do people really just not go back and change their class selection? I feel like that would be the more fair way of doing it, instead of letting someone intentionally select a duplicate to get to choose any skill.
Correct. There's no species/background conflict in the new book as a standalone entity, at the very least, with Elf being the only one that gets skills from a limited list. No background grants more than 1 of the listed skills in the Elf list, which means the 2 from background don't stop you from taking one of the other two in the Elf list. And no class has fewer than 5 skills to pick from (or 3+the number you select as part of that class).
Just a random thought, and not very important 😅
But what if a Rogue chooses the Criminal background? It’s a common choice, but the "Tool Proficiency: Thieves’ Tools" would be duplicated with that combination.
Correct. There's no species/background conflict in the new book as a standalone entity, at the very least, with Elf being the only one that gets skills from a limited list. No background grants more than 1 of the listed skills in the Elf list, which means the 2 from background don't stop you from taking one of the other two in the Elf list. And no class has fewer than 5 skills to pick from (or 3+the number you select as part of that class).
Just a random thought, and not very important 😅
But what if a Rogue chooses the Criminal background? It’s a common choice, but the "Tool Proficiency: Thieves’ Tools" would be duplicated with that combination.
The wayfarer, as well, and the druid and hermit still overlap with the herbalism kit.
The issue isn't just with skill proficiencies, and there are more ways than choosing an elf to get them. The rules expansions include Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse. Combing through, we see bugbears, centaurs, changelings, more elves (eladrin, sea, shadar-kai), harengon, kobold, lizardfolk, satyr, shifter, tabaxi, and tortle. Some give you a choice, but others don't.
I'm aware of what the character builder here allows, but I also know the character builder allegedly makes mistakes. Officially, unarmored defense doesn't apply if one is wearing armor. But the builder treats it as an alternative formula for calculating AC, and a barbarian wearing armor can still have it apply to grant them a higher AC. More importantly, every PHB is going to be someone's first. This is an oversight that should have been spelled out somewhere. I'm hoping guidance exists somewhere, but I haven't seen it in any of the first four chapters or the index.
It’s not the only inconsistency that comes with the 1st level abilities of older Cleric subclasses moving to 3rd, but they’re an example of gaining limited sets of new skill proficiencies after 1st level that don’t easily reconcile and suffer from the lack of guidance in the 2024 rules. Also, you could theoretically have all nine fighter skills by the time you got Battlemaster’s Student of War, but you would’ve earned the corner you painted yourself into.
The only issue I see with this is that Expertise is specifically reserved for certain features and feats. To give the ability to anything to grant that would cheapen those features.
The 2014 player's handbook includes the following text.
If a character would gain the same proficiency from two different sources, he or she can choose a different proficiency of the same kind (skill or tool) instead.
I can find no such equivalent in the 2024 counterpart or Free Rules. Nothing which even addresses a possible conflict. Am I missing something, or are newcomers left out in the cold?
I'm not sure it should ever come up except in rare instances.
It actually can come up more easily with the new order of character creation. As you select your class first, it’s easy to select a proficiency then discover it’s also granted by your subsequent background choice. It can also occur when certain subclasses grant a bonus proficiency.
The character builder seems to spot duplicate proficiencies and makes you choose an alternative, so it suggests that the rule to allow swaps of duplicates is still in the 2024 PHB (unless it’s just a functionality that’s hung over in DDB).
Do people really just not go back and change their class selection? I feel like that would be the more fair way of doing it, instead of letting someone intentionally select a duplicate to get to choose any skill.
The problem isnt at level 1 but mostly when a sublcass, now all at lv3, grants a skill, then is when enters the conflict, like for example an Assasin Rogue gets "Disguise Kit and a Poisoner's Kit" and having one of those from your background at lv1, you cant go back to change it now Or if you are playing a Ranger Feywanderer that at lv 3 gets Deception, Performance, or Persuasion. If somehow you already have any of those, like being a multiclassed Bard that already have all o those 3 with an extra of getting the Charlatan background for Deception and Sleight of Hand
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The 2014 player's handbook includes the following text.
I can find no such equivalent in the 2024 counterpart or Free Rules. Nothing which even addresses a possible conflict. Am I missing something, or are newcomers left out in the cold?
I'm not sure it should ever come up except in rare instances.
It actually can come up more easily with the new order of character creation. As you select your class first, it’s easy to select a proficiency then discover it’s also granted by your subsequent background choice. It can also occur when certain subclasses grant a bonus proficiency.
The character builder seems to spot duplicate proficiencies and makes you choose an alternative, so it suggests that the rule to allow swaps of duplicates is still in the 2024 PHB (unless it’s just a functionality that’s hung over in DDB).
Correct. There's no species/background conflict in the new book as a standalone entity, at the very least, with Elf being the only one that gets skills from a limited list. No background grants more than 1 of the listed skills in the Elf list, which means the 2 from background don't stop you from taking one of the other two in the Elf list. And no class has fewer than 5 skills to pick from (or 3+the number you select as part of that class).
Do people really just not go back and change their class selection? I feel like that would be the more fair way of doing it, instead of letting someone intentionally select a duplicate to get to choose any skill.
Just a random thought, and not very important 😅
But what if a Rogue chooses the Criminal background? It’s a common choice, but the "Tool Proficiency: Thieves’ Tools" would be duplicated with that combination.
The wayfarer, as well, and the druid and hermit still overlap with the herbalism kit.
The issue isn't just with skill proficiencies, and there are more ways than choosing an elf to get them. The rules expansions include Mordenkainen Presents: Monsters of the Multiverse. Combing through, we see bugbears, centaurs, changelings, more elves (eladrin, sea, shadar-kai), harengon, kobold, lizardfolk, satyr, shifter, tabaxi, and tortle. Some give you a choice, but others don't.
I'm aware of what the character builder here allows, but I also know the character builder allegedly makes mistakes. Officially, unarmored defense doesn't apply if one is wearing armor. But the builder treats it as an alternative formula for calculating AC, and a barbarian wearing armor can still have it apply to grant them a higher AC. More importantly, every PHB is going to be someone's first. This is an oversight that should have been spelled out somewhere. I'm hoping guidance exists somewhere, but I haven't seen it in any of the first four chapters or the index.
It’s not the only inconsistency that comes with the 1st level abilities of older Cleric subclasses moving to 3rd, but they’re an example of gaining limited sets of new skill proficiencies after 1st level that don’t easily reconcile and suffer from the lack of guidance in the 2024 rules. Also, you could theoretically have all nine fighter skills by the time you got Battlemaster’s Student of War, but you would’ve earned the corner you painted yourself into.
In my opinion, the player should gain expertise.
The only issue I see with this is that Expertise is specifically reserved for certain features and feats. To give the ability to anything to grant that would cheapen those features.
The problem isnt at level 1 but mostly when a sublcass, now all at lv3, grants a skill, then is when enters the conflict, like for example an Assasin Rogue gets "Disguise Kit and a Poisoner's Kit" and having one of those from your background at lv1, you cant go back to change it now
Or if you are playing a Ranger Feywanderer that at lv 3 gets Deception, Performance, or Persuasion. If somehow you already have any of those, like being a multiclassed Bard that already have all o those 3 with an extra of getting the Charlatan background for Deception and Sleight of Hand