The way I read the dual wielder feat, it is a completely separate attack to that of the attack granted by the light property.
Nick moves the attack of the light property from a BA to be part of the attack action that triggers it.
So with light weapons, with the nick property (and mastery) and the dual wielder feat. You would get 2 additional attacks (with one of those consuming the BA).
Where it gets less clear is adding two weapon fighting on top, the light extra attack does benefit from it but I am uncertain on the dual wielder attack, I would lean on the side that it does not as it is not an attack from the light property, it just has a light weapon requirement.
Overall +2 attacks is pretty strong but a requirement for dual wielding to stay competitive against the new Great Weapon Master feat. GWM + Polearm with Halberd and Glaive weapon switching is likely too offer more damage to Fighter, Barbarian and Paladin. So this option is mostly for melee Ranger and Rogue.
Dual wielder does notably also give a melee weapon restriction so it wouldn't be usable with a hand crossbow and no ranged weapon has nick anyways. Notably when going ranged, Ranger can do crossbow expert+GWM for heavy crossbow now, which is cool, you just miss out on the hew property.
Where it gets less clear is adding two weapon fighting on top, the light extra attack does benefit from it but I am uncertain on the dual wielder attack, I would lean on the side that it does not as it is not an attack from the light property, it just has a light weapon requirement.
It doesn't require the attack to be one from the light property, just that the attack be made as a result of using a weapon that has the light property.
When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.
Compare Nick, which does specify that the attack be the attack from the Light property:
Nick
When you make the extra attack of the Light property, you can make it as part of the Attack action instead of as a Bonus Action. You can make this extra attack only once per turn.
And, for completeness, the relevant part of DW:
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Lightproperty, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon,
This is all way too fussy and requiring of nitpicking attention to the wording. They should and could have done better to make it clear. It's also scattered across two feats and two weapon properties.
How many Attack i can do in a round? And what actions i must use?
With:
1) dual wield talent, 2 Nick weapons light
2) dual wield talent, 1 Nick weapon light and 1 longsword (or another weapon One hand)
3) without dual wield talent, 2 Nick weapons light.
4) without dual wield talent, 1 Nick weapon light and 1 other weapon (not light nor Nick)
Very very ty!!!
As I read Dual Wielder, it removes the restriction that the second weapon must also have the light property. So, assuming the character has the requisite Weapon Mastery and doesn't have Extra Attack...
Two attacks, both with Attack as the Action. Because of wording, you only benefit from the Nick property on the normally BA attack.
Two attacks, one Action and one Bonus Action. The weapon with the Light property must go first, so the longsword is relegated to the Bonus Action.
Same as #1. The feat doesn't do anything for two Light weapons with Nick. You're better off with a first weapon that has another property, like Vex.
One attack only as part of your Action. Pick whichever weapon is the most useful at the moment.
The Dual Wielder feat allow a distinct seperate extra attack as a Bonus Action that also happen to be enabled by taking the Attack action and attacking with a Light weapon in the way the Light Property or Nick Mastery allows it. But it's seperate and doesn't only allow non-Light weapon but an additional attack that can be made if you haven't taken a Bonus action on your turn, which is the case with Nick Mastery.
The Dual Wielder feat allow a distinct seperate extra attack as a Bonus Action that also happen to be enabled by taking the Attack action and attacking with a Light weapon in the way the Light Property or Nick Mastery allows it. But it's seperate and doesn't only allow non-Light weapon but an additional attack that can be made if you haven't taken a Bonus action on your turn, which is the case with Nick Mastery.
3 attacks total: 1 Attack (action), 1 Nick Mastery (as part of Attack action) and 1 Dual Wielder (Bonus Action)
Even if that's true, there's nothing new about how often you can draw and stow a weapon. Playtests used to have it be once per attack, but that language is absent. We're back to one free object interaction per turn, or the Utilize action, which is why Dual Wielder is worded the way it is. The only way what you describe works is by having two Light weapons, one of which has the Nick mastery, a third One-Handed weapon, and the ability to switch between all of them in a single turn. And that does not work unless your character can hold three weapons at once.
Or we just say they get two BA attacks, but can shift one to the Attack action with Nick. I don't buy it.
The Dual Wielder feat allow a distinct seperate extra attack as a Bonus Action that also happen to be enabled by taking the Attack action and attacking with a Light weapon in the way the Light Property or Nick Mastery allows it. But it's seperate and doesn't only allow non-Light weapon but an additional attack that can be made if you haven't taken a Bonus action on your turn, which is the case with Nick Mastery.
3 attacks total: 1 Attack (action), 1 Nick Mastery (as part of Attack action) and 1 Dual Wielder (Bonus Action)
Even if that's true, there's nothing new about how often you can draw and stow a weapon. Playtests used to have it be once per attack, but that language is absent. We're back to one free object interaction per turn, or the Utilize action, which is why Dual Wielder is worded the way it is. The only way what you describe works is by having two Light weapons, one of which has the Nick mastery, a third One-Handed weapon, and the ability to switch between all of them in a single turn. And that does not work unless your character can hold three weapons at once.
Or we just say they get two BA attacks, but can shift one to the Attack action with Nick. I don't buy it.
You absolutely do not need a third weapon. The normal extra attack from two-weapon fighting and the additional extra attack from the Dual Wielder feat have to be made with a different weapon from the one you make an attack with when you take the Attack action. Absolutely nothing says they have to be different from each other.
Even if that's true, there's nothing new about how often you can draw and stow a weapon. Playtests used to have it be once per attack, but that language is absent.
It's not absent, it's under the Attack action in the rules glossary;
Attack [Action]
When you take the Attack action, you can make one attack roll with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.
Moving between Attacks. If you move on your turn and have a feature, such as Extra Attack, that gives you more than one attack as part of the Attack action, you can use some or all of that movement to move between those attacks.
Goddangit, there is nothing about drawing, sheathing, equipping, or unequipping a weapon in the index. I know WotC doesn't like indexed, but...grrrrr.
I don't like what you're describing because it's clumsy as all get out. The wording is terrible, and this is ultimately going to come down to whether a specific DM sees the feat as something separate or a specific override for the general rule governing the Light weapon property.
I'm going to have to write my own Sage Advice, and I hate it.
To makes things even more complicated, they have also a rule for drawing weapons in the Thrown property:
Thrown
If a weapon has the Thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack, and you can draw that weapon as part of the attack. If the weapon is a Melee weapon, use the same ability modifier for the attack and damage rolls that you use for a melee attack with that weapon.
This video explains very well the interaction between the Light weapon property, Dual Wielder feat, Two-Weapon Fighting Style feat, and Nick weapon mastery.
Nick just moves the enhanced two weapon from a bonus action to part of the main action.. it doesn't add another attack sadly.. says you move from a bonus action to part of the main attack.. then the you can only use that once which means you can't make an attack with your bonus action.. it is to open utility
Nick just moves the enhanced two weapon from a bonus action to part of the main action.. it doesn't add another attack sadly.. says you move from a bonus action to part of the main attack.. then the you can only use that once which means you can't make an attack with your bonus action.. it is to open utility
Yes, that's right. It's the Dual Wielder feat that gives you a new bonus action attack.
Goddangit, there is nothing about drawing, sheathing, equipping, or unequipping a weapon in the index. I know WotC doesn't like indexed, but...grrrrr.
I don't like what you're describing because it's clumsy as all get out. The wording is terrible, and this is ultimately going to come down to whether a specific DM sees the feat as something separate or a specific override for the general rule governing the Light weapon property.
I'm going to have to write my own Sage Advice, and I hate it.
I agree the index could be improved. The glossary does talk about drawing/sheathing on page 361 under Attack [Action]. There is an easy-to-miss caveat in the example scenario on page 30 that suggests DROPPING a weapon (as opposed to sheathing) CAN be done before an draw-and-attack action.
Goddangit, there is nothing about drawing, sheathing, equipping, or unequipping a weapon in the index. I know WotC doesn't like indexed, but...grrrrr.
I don't like what you're describing because it's clumsy as all get out. The wording is terrible, and this is ultimately going to come down to whether a specific DM sees the feat as something separate or a specific override for the general rule governing the Light weapon property.
I'm going to have to write my own Sage Advice, and I hate it.
I agree the index could be improved. The glossary does talk about drawing/sheathing on page 361 under Attack [Action]. There is an easy-to-miss caveat in the example scenario on page 30 that suggests DROPPING a weapon (as opposed to sheathing) CAN be done before an draw-and-attack action.
Dropping a weapon is equivalent to sheathing, but everybody gets one free (unconnected to any action) object interaction on their turn.
The rules for Equiping & Unequiping Weapons can be in addition to the Time-Limited Object Interaction rule, one being part of the Attack action, the other during a creature’s movement or action.
I Need a clear and simple answer.
How many Attack i can do in a round? And what actions i must use?
With:
1) dual wield talent, 2 Nick weapons light
2) dual wield talent, 1 Nick weapon light and 1 longsword (or another weapon One hand)
3) without dual wield talent, 2 Nick weapons light.
4) without dual wield talent, 1 Nick weapon light and 1 other weapon (not light nor Nick)
Very very ty!!!
The way I read the dual wielder feat, it is a completely separate attack to that of the attack granted by the light property.
Nick moves the attack of the light property from a BA to be part of the attack action that triggers it.
So with light weapons, with the nick property (and mastery) and the dual wielder feat. You would get 2 additional attacks (with one of those consuming the BA).
Where it gets less clear is adding two weapon fighting on top, the light extra attack does benefit from it but I am uncertain on the dual wielder attack, I would lean on the side that it does not as it is not an attack from the light property, it just has a light weapon requirement.
Overall +2 attacks is pretty strong but a requirement for dual wielding to stay competitive against the new Great Weapon Master feat. GWM + Polearm with Halberd and Glaive weapon switching is likely too offer more damage to Fighter, Barbarian and Paladin. So this option is mostly for melee Ranger and Rogue.
Dual wielder does notably also give a melee weapon restriction so it wouldn't be usable with a hand crossbow and no ranged weapon has nick anyways. Notably when going ranged, Ranger can do crossbow expert+GWM for heavy crossbow now, which is cool, you just miss out on the hew property.
1) 3 attacks total; 1 Attack action, 1 Nick Mastery, 1 Dual Wielder feat
2) 2 attacks total; 1 Attack action, 1 Dual Wielder feat
3) 2 attacks total; 1 Attack action, 1 Nick Mastery
4) 1 attack total; 1 Attack action
It doesn't require the attack to be one from the light property, just that the attack be made as a result of using a weapon that has the light property.
Compare Nick, which does specify that the attack be the attack from the Light property:
And, for completeness, the relevant part of DW:
This is all way too fussy and requiring of nitpicking attention to the wording. They should and could have done better to make it clear. It's also scattered across two feats and two weapon properties.
I am disappoint.
As I read Dual Wielder, it removes the restriction that the second weapon must also have the light property. So, assuming the character has the requisite Weapon Mastery and doesn't have Extra Attack...
The Dual Wielder feat allow a distinct seperate extra attack as a Bonus Action that also happen to be enabled by taking the Attack action and attacking with a Light weapon in the way the Light Property or Nick Mastery allows it. But it's seperate and doesn't only allow non-Light weapon but an additional attack that can be made if you haven't taken a Bonus action on your turn, which is the case with Nick Mastery.
Without Nick Mastery, you can make;
2 attacks total: 1 Attack (action), 1 Light Property (Bonus Action) OR 1 Dual Wielder (Bonus Action)
With Nick Mastery, you can make;
3 attacks total: 1 Attack (action), 1 Nick Mastery (as part of Attack action) and 1 Dual Wielder (Bonus Action)
Even if that's true, there's nothing new about how often you can draw and stow a weapon. Playtests used to have it be once per attack, but that language is absent. We're back to one free object interaction per turn, or the Utilize action, which is why Dual Wielder is worded the way it is. The only way what you describe works is by having two Light weapons, one of which has the Nick mastery, a third One-Handed weapon, and the ability to switch between all of them in a single turn. And that does not work unless your character can hold three weapons at once.
Or we just say they get two BA attacks, but can shift one to the Attack action with Nick. I don't buy it.
You absolutely do not need a third weapon. The normal extra attack from two-weapon fighting and the additional extra attack from the Dual Wielder feat have to be made with a different weapon from the one you make an attack with when you take the Attack action. Absolutely nothing says they have to be different from each other.
It's not absent, it's under the Attack action in the rules glossary;
Goddangit, there is nothing about drawing, sheathing, equipping, or unequipping a weapon in the index. I know WotC doesn't like indexed, but...grrrrr.
I don't like what you're describing because it's clumsy as all get out. The wording is terrible, and this is ultimately going to come down to whether a specific DM sees the feat as something separate or a specific override for the general rule governing the Light weapon property.
I'm going to have to write my own Sage Advice, and I hate it.
To makes things even more complicated, they have also a rule for drawing weapons in the Thrown property:
@Jounichi1983 if you're interested, there are at least two recent posts about Equipping and Unequipping Weapons.
This video explains very well the interaction between the Light weapon property, Dual Wielder feat, Two-Weapon Fighting Style feat, and Nick weapon mastery.
Sounds like you need a Thri-keen that can wield a longsword and shield in its main hands and a shortsword and scimitar in its two secondary hands.
Nick just moves the enhanced two weapon from a bonus action to part of the main action.. it doesn't add another attack sadly.. says you move from a bonus action to part of the main attack.. then the you can only use that once which means you can't make an attack with your bonus action.. it is to open utility
Yes, that's right. It's the Dual Wielder feat that gives you a new bonus action attack.
I agree the index could be improved. The glossary does talk about drawing/sheathing on page 361 under Attack [Action]. There is an easy-to-miss caveat in the example scenario on page 30 that suggests DROPPING a weapon (as opposed to sheathing) CAN be done before an draw-and-attack action.
Dropping a weapon is equivalent to sheathing, but everybody gets one free (unconnected to any action) object interaction on their turn.
The rules for Equiping & Unequiping Weapons can be in addition to the Time-Limited Object Interaction rule, one being part of the Attack action, the other during a creature’s movement or action.
Yes, this does a great job of explaining things!