Is it just a Thieves Tools check to Pick a lock and disarm a trap? Not slight of hand?
What confuses me is that the Thief Subclass has the level 3 ability 'Fast Hands' that states you make a Dexterity (Slight of Hand) check to pick a lock or disarm a trap with Thieves Tool.
Also, how long does it take to pick a lock or disarm a trap? The 'Fast Hands' say you can do it as a bonus action, so seems to suggest you can do it on your turn i.e. in one round. Is this correct?
For characters without this ability, I presume it takes an action rather than a bonus action i.e. still only takes one round to do it.
I seem to recall in 2014 PHB that it said that picking a lock took roughly 1 minute (this from memory, as don;t have the book on me at the moment).
A Lock comes with a key. Without the key, a creature can use Thieves’ Tools to pick this Lock with a successful DC 15 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check.
So, if using Thieves Tools (Sleight of hand) how would that work? Would proficiency with theives tools give you an additional proficiency bonus on the roll to add on to any proficiency you have with Sleight of Hand? Or is it just a straight Slight of Hand roll, and need to be proficient with thieves tool's to attempt it?
You need to have Thieves' Tools to attempt to pick the lock at all, if you don't have any, you (probably) can't try and improvise (unless you really beg the DM and they agree).
If you have Thieves' Tools, you make the pick using your Sleight of Hand skill.
If you have proficiency in one of Thieves' Tools or Sleight of Hand, you make the Sleight of Hand check normally, adding your proficiency bonus.
If you are proficient in both Thieves' Tools and Sleight of Hand, you make the Sleight of Hand check with advantage, adding your proficiency bonus.
If you have Expertise in Sleight of Hand (you can no longer have Expertise in a tool), you add double your proficiency bonus (or rather, you use the already-doubled value beside Sleight of Hand).
You need to have Thieves' Tools to attempt to pick the lock at all, if you don't have any, you (probably) can't try and improvise (unless you really beg the DM and they agree).
If you have Thieves' Tools, you make the pick using your Sleight of Hand skill.
If you have proficiency in one of Thieves' Tools or Sleight of Hand, you make the Sleight of Hand check normally, adding your proficiency bonus.
If you are proficient in both Thieves' Tools and Sleight of Hand, you make the Sleight of Hand check with advantage, adding your proficiency bonus.
If you have Expertise in Sleight of Hand (you can no longer have Expertise in a tool), you add double your proficiency bonus (or rather, you use the already-doubled value beside Sleight of Hand).
Thank you for adding more detail!
I didn't mention the Equipment Proficiencies, but yes, that's how it works. The synergy rule about using tools and skills together was taken from XGtE, and now it's in the 2024 PHB:
A character gains proficiency with various weapons and tools from their class and background. There are two categories of equipment proficiency: [...] Tools. If you have proficiency with a tool, you can add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have Proficiency in the skill that’s also used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too. This means you can benefit from both skill proficiency and tool proficiency on the same ability check.
If you have proficiency with a tool, add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses the tool. If you have proficiency in a skill that’s used with that check, you have Advantage on the check too.
Your features might give you proficiency with a tool. A monster has proficiency with any tool in its stat block.
What about Disarming traps? Would that work on same system?
There are a couple of spots within the description of the Rogue class that suggests that it should work the same way, at least for certain types of traps. Traps are a bit more varied though, including perhaps also for setting the DC. But yes, it seems like the intent is to sometimes be able to use Thieves' Tools with a Sleight of Hand check to attempt to disarm the trap.
Re time it takes to pick a lock or disarm a trap - in PHB2024 does it just take a single action (bonus action for some) and then done then and there, or like the PHB2014 can take up to a minute to do?
Re time it takes to pick a lock or disarm a trap - in PHB2024 does it just take a single action (bonus action for some) and then done then and there, or like the PHB2014 can take up to a minute to do?
I was trying to find that info about the one-minute rule for lockpicking, but I couldn't find it in either the 2014 or 2024 rules.
I can't find it either. I must be misremembering it then, or read it online and presumed it came from PHB or DMG.
So, it takes 1 round to pick a lock or disarm a trap, presuming you are successful then. That would be correct?
This isn't strictly defined in the rules.
In my opinion, you could assume one round (Action or Bonus Action) is enough to pick a common lock, but it might take more depending on the DM's discretion or the specific lock or trap.
It does depend. If you roll a natural 20 for a 28+ on a standard DC 15 lock, it could happen faster than if you barely make the 15. And the DM might sometimes, on a not-quite-passed check still rule that you open the lock, but it takes much longer.
2024 Player's Handbook says Sleight of Hand example uses are "Pick a pocket, conceal a handheld object, or perform legerdemain." It doesn't say that the Skill is used to Pick Locks. Please prove me wrong, because I'd really like to use Sleight of Hand to help pick locks with Dex bonus and Advantage.
2024 Player's Handbook says Sleight of Hand example uses are "Pick a pocket, conceal a handheld object, or perform legerdemain." It doesn't say that the Skill is used to Pick Locks. Please prove me wrong, because I'd really like to use Sleight of Hand to help pick locks with Dex bonus and Advantage.
Because to pick a lock, you need to use your Thieves' Tools, and doing so requires a Sleight of Hand check.
A Lock comes with a key. Without the key, a creature can use Thieves’ Tools to pick this Lock with a successful DC 15 Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check.
Additionally, skill descriptions are not all-inclusive, so the absence of “pick a lock” in the quickie blurb about the skill does not constitute a positive rule that it cannot be used for the task.
OK, that clarifies. My character has a background of criminal, which gives him proficiency in Thieves Tools and also Slight of Hand, so under Tool Proficiency, PHB says, "If you have proficiency with a tool [Thieves Tools] add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses that tool. If you have proficiency in a skill [Sleight of Hand/Dexterity] that's used with that check, you have Advantage on the check, too." So, generally I would roll two die and add my proficiency [Dexterity+Tool Proficiency] bonus to the highest one die and compare to the DC of 15. Let me know if I'm understanding this correctly.
Is it just a Thieves Tools check to Pick a lock and disarm a trap? Not slight of hand?
What confuses me is that the Thief Subclass has the level 3 ability 'Fast Hands' that states you make a Dexterity (Slight of Hand) check to pick a lock or disarm a trap with Thieves Tool.
Also, how long does it take to pick a lock or disarm a trap? The 'Fast Hands' say you can do it as a bonus action, so seems to suggest you can do it on your turn i.e. in one round. Is this correct?
For characters without this ability, I presume it takes an action rather than a bonus action i.e. still only takes one round to do it.
I seem to recall in 2014 PHB that it said that picking a lock took roughly 1 minute (this from memory, as don;t have the book on me at the moment).
You Utilize your Thieves' Tools to pick a Lock but using a Sleight of Hand check. It's the way I read the rules.
So, if using Thieves Tools (Sleight of hand) how would that work? Would proficiency with theives tools give you an additional proficiency bonus on the roll to add on to any proficiency you have with Sleight of Hand? Or is it just a straight Slight of Hand roll, and need to be proficient with thieves tool's to attempt it?
Bit confused really.
I'm going to second tarodnet's view on that.
Thanks. That is great to know! Makes more sense now
What about Disarming traps? Would that work on same system?
Thank you for adding more detail!
I didn't mention the Equipment Proficiencies, but yes, that's how it works. The synergy rule about using tools and skills together was taken from XGtE, and now it's in the 2024 PHB:
I guess so, but traps aren't described in the 2024 PHB. If I'm not mistaken, they'll be included in the 2024 DMG.
There are a couple of spots within the description of the Rogue class that suggests that it should work the same way, at least for certain types of traps. Traps are a bit more varied though, including perhaps also for setting the DC. But yes, it seems like the intent is to sometimes be able to use Thieves' Tools with a Sleight of Hand check to attempt to disarm the trap.
Thanks for all the replies
Re time it takes to pick a lock or disarm a trap - in PHB2024 does it just take a single action (bonus action for some) and then done then and there, or like the PHB2014 can take up to a minute to do?
I was trying to find that info about the one-minute rule for lockpicking, but I couldn't find it in either the 2014 or 2024 rules.
I can't find it either. I must be misremembering it then, or read it online and presumed it came from PHB or DMG.
So, it takes 1 round to pick a lock or disarm a trap, presuming you are successful then. That would be correct?
This isn't strictly defined in the rules.
In my opinion, you could assume one round (Action or Bonus Action) is enough to pick a common lock, but it might take more depending on the DM's discretion or the specific lock or trap.
It does depend. If you roll a natural 20 for a 28+ on a standard DC 15 lock, it could happen faster than if you barely make the 15. And the DM might sometimes, on a not-quite-passed check still rule that you open the lock, but it takes much longer.
Ok, so no real official rules, but plenty of scope for house rules on it :)
2024 Player's Handbook says Sleight of Hand example uses are "Pick a pocket, conceal a handheld object, or perform legerdemain." It doesn't say that the Skill is used to Pick Locks. Please prove me wrong, because I'd really like to use Sleight of Hand to help pick locks with Dex bonus and Advantage.
Because to pick a lock, you need to use your Thieves' Tools, and doing so requires a Sleight of Hand check.
This earlier post from @Stabbey_TC covers the alternatives for proficiency or Expertise.
Additionally, skill descriptions are not all-inclusive, so the absence of “pick a lock” in the quickie blurb about the skill does not constitute a positive rule that it cannot be used for the task.
OK, that clarifies. My character has a background of criminal, which gives him proficiency in Thieves Tools and also Slight of Hand, so under Tool Proficiency, PHB says, "If you have proficiency with a tool [Thieves Tools] add your Proficiency Bonus to any ability check you make that uses that tool. If you have proficiency in a skill [Sleight of Hand/Dexterity] that's used with that check, you have Advantage on the check, too." So, generally I would roll two die and add my proficiency [Dexterity+Tool Proficiency] bonus to the highest one die and compare to the DC of 15. Let me know if I'm understanding this correctly.