The rules are unfortunately a bit inconsistent with the terminology involved in the various forms of spellcasting. There is still the concept of known or learned spells, particularly when it comes to casting Cantrips. There are also the concepts of prepared spells and always prepared spells. There is also the term [class] spell (such as "Warlock spell") and there are also some features which state that a spell is added to the class list.
If it's true that a "known" or "learned" spell should be considered to be automatically and/or always prepared then there really should be a rule somewhere that explicitly says so, but so far, I am not seeing one. On the other hand, that Chapter 7 general rule which states that "Before you can cast a spell, you must have the spell prepared in your mind" seems inconsistent without this assumption, since you wouldn't be able to cast Cantrips at all.
There is also the possibility that the same word is being used in two different contexts. The Chapter 7 general rule might be saying that you must have the spell prepared in your mind, which might include known and learned and "officially prepared" spells. Meaning, some spells are already fixed in your mind and those spells are "prepared" to be cast (or, another way to think of it is that they don't need to go through any sort of actual "preparation process" to become fixed in your mind -- it's already there. But then, most of the time a Level 1+ spell is not permanently fixed in your mind and in order to actually put that spell into your mind such that it is ready to be cast, you must follow the procedure for "preparing" that spell so that it enters your mind. If it works like this, I think it would have been better for that general rule to use the phrase that the spell must be "fixed in your mind" instead of "prepared in your mind" so that we don't potentially have two different connotations of the word "prepared". Alternatively, put an explicit statement into the general rules somewhere that a known or learned spell counts as being always prepared.
Under this interpretation, a known spell might be prepared to be cast, but it's not a spell that is "always prepared" in the same way that other features explicitly say that the spell is "always prepared" (as if you actually followed the procedure for preparing a spell).
As for the spellcasting ability issue, we have this rule from the Creating a Character chapter:
Your spellcasting ability modifier for a spell is determined by whatever feature gives you the ability to cast the spell.
So technically, if you are using an Eldritch Invocation to cast a spell you wouldn't be able to use the spellcasting ability that is provided in the Pact Magic feature since that's a separate feature with separate rules. That would be true regardless of whether the spell being cast was considered to be a Warlock spell or not. This would mean that for those couple of spells which refer to the spell save DC in the spell description, I suppose you would use a spellcasting ability modifier of +0, although that's not well defined.
A lot of this doesn't even necessarily apply to the Invocations anyway since they are not even explicitly "known" or "learned" spells, nor are they explicitly "always prepared" spells. Instead, you basically just "invoke" the ability to cast these spells. Unless -- and this might be a bit of a stretch -- we consider the general description of an Eldritch Invocation which is that these are "pieces of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability or other lessons." If such abilities come from pieces of knowledge, perhaps that means that we "know" the spell? From a Rules perspective, relying on this . . . is not great.
The end result is that we really should not consider the spells from the Eldritch Invocations (except for Invisibility) to be "Warlock spells" for the purposes of qualifying as a spell of this category when mentioned by features that are worded like the "Psychic Spells" feature (When you cast a Warlock spell . . . [something happens]). They are not on the Warlock spell list. The Invocations do not explicitly say that the spell counts as a Warlock spell for you. The Invocations do not explicitly say that the spell is always prepared (which, at least for the purposes of the Pact Magic feature, would cause them to then count as Warlock spells for you as per the wording of that portion of the Pact Magic feature). They do not even explicitly say that the spell is "known" or "learned" for any sort of implicit "always prepared" purposes. As written, there is just no mechanism that makes the Eldritch Invocation spells become Warlock spells. This might not be the intent, but that's what the rules currently say.
Aside from Find Familiar , i'm questioning wether Eldritch Invocations spells cast without expending a spell slot effectively count as Warlock Spells taken that none of them are prepared or learned.
Does it matter?
Only Levitate requires a save, but it's restricted to yourself when cast through Ascendant Step. Since it's not prepared, you can't use Gift of the Depths to cast Water Breathing with your spell slots.
What would these being Warlock Spells actually give you?
The original post in this thread was specifically about which spells the Psychic Spells feature of the '24 GOO warlock might apply to
Level 3: Psychic Spells
When you cast a Warlock spell that deals damage, you can change its damage type to Psychic. In addition, when you cast a Warlock spell that is an Enchantment or Illusion, you can do so without Verbal or Somatic components.
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The invocations themselves do not give you a spellcasting stat for any of the invocation spells. To be fair, many invocation spells do not need a casting stat. But as I pointed out earlier, almost EVERY other instance of spell granting goes as far as needed out of its way to make sure you know what stat a spell is cast with, even if it isn't required by the spell at all ever for any reason.
For the 2024 invocation, it seems knowing the casting stat would tell you the DC for disguise self from Mask of Many Faces; the attack bonus for the natural attack of Alter Self from Master of Myriad Forms, and the Study DC for Silent Image given by Misty Visions,
Additionally, it would let you use your pact slots (or any other slots you have from multiclassing) to upcast them. False Life is probably better upcast than maximized as a first level spell.
Ah, okay. I only looked at the D&D Beyond headers as I looked through the Invocations that granted spells. I also don't know if there are any non-core invocations that could expand the list. I think the Jeremy Crawford comment about invocations being Warlock spells should continue to be considered RAI. However, they are still not prepared.
The invocations themselves do not give you a spellcasting stat for any of the invocation spells. To be fair, many invocation spells do not need a casting stat. But as I pointed out earlier, almost EVERY other instance of spell granting goes as far as needed out of its way to make sure you know what stat a spell is cast with, even if it isn't required by the spell at all ever for any reason.
For the 2024 invocation, it seems knowing the casting stat would tell you the DC for disguise self from Mask of Many Faces; the attack bonus for the natural attack of Alter Self from Master of Myriad Forms, and the Study DC for Silent Image given by Misty Visions,
Additionally, it would let you use your pact slots (or any other slots you have from multiclassing) to upcast them. False Life is probably better upcast than maximized as a first level spell.
Ah, okay. I only looked at the D&D Beyond headers as I looked through the Invocations that granted spells. I also don't know if there are any non-core invocations that could expand the list. I think the Jeremy Crawford comment about invocations being Warlock spells should continue to be considered RAI. However, they are still not prepared.
The original post in this thread was specifically about which spells the Psychic Spells feature of the '24 GOO warlock might apply to
Plaguescarred's comment was specifically about Invocations. Not about the Psychic Spells feature.
And if invocations give you Warlock spells, then the Psychic Spells feature can be applied to them
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The invocations themselves do not give you a spellcasting stat for any of the invocation spells. To be fair, many invocation spells do not need a casting stat. But as I pointed out earlier, almost EVERY other instance of spell granting goes as far as needed out of its way to make sure you know what stat a spell is cast with, even if it isn't required by the spell at all ever for any reason.
For the 2024 invocation, it seems knowing the casting stat would tell you the DC for disguise self from Mask of Many Faces; the attack bonus for the natural attack of Alter Self from Master of Myriad Forms, and the Study DC for Silent Image given by Misty Visions,
Additionally, it would let you use your pact slots (or any other slots you have from multiclassing) to upcast them. False Life is probably better upcast than maximized as a first level spell.
Ah, okay. I only looked at the D&D Beyond headers as I looked through the Invocations that granted spells. I also don't know if there are any non-core invocations that could expand the list. I think the Jeremy Crawford comment about invocations being Warlock spells should continue to be considered RAI. However, they are still not prepared.
The original post in this thread was specifically about which spells the Psychic Spells feature of the '24 GOO warlock might apply to
Plaguescarred's comment was specifically about Invocations. Not about the Psychic Spells feature.
And if invocations give you Warlock spells, then the Psychic Spells feature can be applied to them
And I still wasn't disputing whether Psychic Spells applied, at least not directly; I was responding to Plaguescarred's question about invocations.
Now, if you had proposed that Psychic Spells is a reason that invocations being Warlock spells matters because it removed the verbal and somatic components of Mage Armor, that would have been helpful. If your intent was to bring that forward as an example, I didn't recognize it as such and, honestly, redirecting the thread back to the original topic just confused the matter.
Aside from Find Familiar , i'm questioning wether Eldritch Invocations spells cast without expending a spell slot effectively count as Warlock Spells taken that none of them are prepared or learned.
Does it matter?
Only Levitate requires a save, but it's restricted to yourself when cast through Ascendant Step. Since it's not prepared, you can't use Gift of the Depths to cast Water Breathing with your spell slots.
What would these being Warlock Spells actually give you?
If Eldritch Invocations spells count as Warlock spell always prepared then you can also normally cast/upcast them using a spell slot and potentially apply Psychic Spell to them.
If Eldritch Invocations spells don't count as Warlock spell always prepared then you can't cast/upcast them using a spell slot or apply Psychic Spell to them.
A lot of this doesn't even necessarily apply to the Invocations anyway since they are not even explicitly "known" or "learned" spells, nor are they explicitly "always prepared" spells.
The Pact of the Chain makes you learn the Find Familiar spell and can cast it as a Magic action without expending a spell slot.
And Pact of the Tome grant you spells that while the book is on your person, have chosen spells prepared that function as Warlock spells for you.
The rest of Eldritch Invocations simply let you cast the spell without expending a spell slot.
Also, Eldritch Invocations are Warlock Features. Additionally Ch 7 has a rule about gaining spells: "you must have the spell prepared in your mind or have access to the spell from a magic item". If you are to actually take that rule on its face value, then every spell that you cast must be prepared in your mind in some way. Most features tell you how, but Invocations do not tell you how. But that rule still tells you that it must be prepared. That makes the most consistent ruling is that invocation spells are prepared through a warlock feature.
And as a reminder, there are a handful of invocation spells that become at least in part non-functional without a spellcasting stat.
And again, I think it is the most likely intent that they count as warlock spells. Interestingly, since none of them require a save for effect or attack roll upon casting, DDB doesn't indicate the spellcasting modifier used with them -- the saves and attack come later.
There's only two invocations - Misty VisionsSilent Image and Mask of Many FacesDisguise Self - that may interact with your spell save DC and they're not saving throws, but ability check where a creature takes a Study action to examine or inspect and make an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC, which is a score written on your sheet.
There's only two invocations - Misty VisionsSilent Image and Mask of Many FacesDisguise Self - that may interact with your spell save DC and they're not saving throws, but ability check where a creature takes a Study action to examine or inspect and make an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC, which is a score written on your sheet.
It's definitely problematic because your spellcasting ability modifier for a spell is determined by whatever feature gives you the ability to cast the spell, but
The feature Pact Magic doesn't say spells you can cast with Eldritch Invocation count as Warlock spell for you.
The feature Eldritch Invocations doesn't say spells you can cast with them count as Warlock spells always prepared for you or that it use your Warlock spell DC, only one Invocation, Investment of the Chain Master specifically say it use Your Save DC.
It might in part be intended but RAW is missing something it seems like.
Spellcasting: Your spellcasting ability modifier for a spell is determined by whatever feature gives you the ability to cast the spell.
Also, Eldritch Invocations are Warlock Features. Additionally Ch 7 has a rule about gaining spells: "you must have the spell prepared in your mind or have access to the spell from a magic item". If you are to actually take that rule on its face value, then every spell that you cast must be prepared in your mind in some way. Most features tell you how, but Invocations do not tell you how. But that rule still tells you that it must be prepared. That makes the most consistent ruling is that invocation spells are prepared through a warlock feature.
The other possibility of course is that the Eldritch Invocations such as Armor of Shadows are just creating a specific exception to this general rule. The Invocation does not say that the spell is prepared or that it is learned or that it is known. The closest that we have to those concepts is that Invocations are generally defined as "pieces of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability or other lessons". Maybe that means that this forbidden knowledge has prepared that spell into your mind, but that's a pretty big stretch.
Also keep in mind that we need to keep our features straight. We follow the rules for whichever feature we are using. So, we should keep in mind that this rule:
"If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you."
. . . is a Pact Magic rule. So, this is basically a method for allowing certain spells to be cast with the Pact Magic feature that otherwise might not qualify for that. But this probably does not allow you to cast the spell by using the Invocation rules (without using a spell slot, for example) and still have this count as a Warlock spell for the purposes of triggering a separate passive feature such as those with similar wording to the Psychic Spells feature ("When you cast a Warlock spell . . . [something happens]").
The purpose of that Pact Magic rule is to open the door to the possibility of other features explicitly stating that you have a spell "always prepared" so that you can then go back and cast that spell with the Pact Magic feature, not with some other feature.
One clear example of this is in the mechanic that is created by the Pact of the Tome. The Pact of the Tome invocation doesn't actually provide any method of casting the spells that it introduces. Instead, it explicitly prepares those spells so that you can then use the Pact Magic feature to cast them.
The other interesting example is the Level 9: Contact Patron class feature. That feature actually indirectly provides two different methods of casting the spell in question and there is some carefully chosen unique wording used to indicate this. First, the spell is explicitly always prepared. This gives you the ability to cast this spell, as a Warlock spell, by using the Pact Magic feature to do so. But secondly, "with this feature" you can cast this spell without expending a spell slot in specifically defined situations. Using "this feature" (instead of the Pact Magic feature) to do this is limited to once per long rest. So, this spell can be cast either with the Pact Magic feature or with the Eldritch Invocation feature, each following its own rules to do so. This spell probably only counts as a Warlock spell if the Pact Magic feature was used to cast it.
The feature Pact Magic doesn't say spells you can cast with Eldritch Invocation count as Warlock spell for you.
It almost does, though
Prepared Spells of Level 1+. You prepare the list of level 1+ spells that are available for you to cast with this feature. To start, choose two level 1 Warlock spells. Charm Person and Hex are recommended.
The number of spells on your list increases as you gain Warlock levels, as shown in the Prepared Spells column of the Warlock Features table. Whenever that number increases, choose additional Warlock spells until the number of spells on your list matches the number in the table. The chosen spells must be of a level no higher than what’s shown in the table’s Slot Level column for your level. When you reach level 6, for example, you learn a new Warlock spell, which can be of levels 1–3.
If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you.
What's missing is an explicit "Spells gained via invocations are always prepared", but as Ace said back on page 1, that's really nitpicky
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If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you.
IN NOT THE SAME AS
If another Warlock feature gives you spells, those spells are always prepared and don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you.
The feature Pact Magic doesn't say spells you can cast with Eldritch Invocation count as Warlock spell for you.
It almost does, though
Prepared Spells of Level 1+. You prepare the list of level 1+ spells that are available for you to cast with this feature. To start, choose two level 1 Warlock spells. Charm Person and Hex are recommended.
The number of spells on your list increases as you gain Warlock levels, as shown in the Prepared Spells column of the Warlock Features table. Whenever that number increases, choose additional Warlock spells until the number of spells on your list matches the number in the table. The chosen spells must be of a level no higher than what’s shown in the table’s Slot Level column for your level. When you reach level 6, for example, you learn a new Warlock spell, which can be of levels 1–3.
If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you.
What's missing is an explicit "Spells gained via invocations are always prepared", but as Ace said back on page 1, that's really nitpicky
I disagree. There actually are Warlock features that are written with this specific explicit wording about providing spells which are "always prepared" (such as the Pact of the Tome Invocation and the Contact Patron class feature. In the case of Contact Patron, it allows its own method of casting, and it also explicitly causes the spell to be always prepared, so we shouldn't automatically assume that features that allow spellcasting automatically cause the spell to be "always prepared", otherwise there wouldn't have been any reason to write this Contact Patron feature in this way. So, it appears that this differentiation is intentional to the design.
If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you.
IN NOT THE SAME AS
If another Warlock feature gives you spells, those spells are always prepared and don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you.
I mean, they're spells you can cast at will. I'm sure you can flavor a warlock in a way that they aren't prepared by you in some fashion, but mechanically, treating them as prepared is the only way that really works
In fact, that Gaining Spells section Wolf cited earlier doesn't even have a section for "at-will" spells, just "always-prepared" ones
Gaining Spells
Before you can cast a spell, you must have the spell prepared in your mind or have access to the spell from a magic item, such as a Spell Scroll. Your features specify which spells you have access to, if any; whether you always have certain spells prepared; and whether you can change the list of spells you have prepared.
Always-Prepared Spells
Certain features might give you a spell that you always have prepared. If you also have a list of prepared spells that you can change, a spell that you always have prepared doesn’t count against the number of spells on that list.
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Basically, if you choose to rule that, say, Mask of Many Faces doesn't give you disguise self as an always-prepared Warlock spell, there's no alternative mechanical option for determining what it is, exactly
If the choice is 'existing rule that also makes intuitive sense' and 'no rule at all', I don't buy 'no rule' as the correct RAW interpretation
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Popular Eldritch Invocations for Warlocks like Agonizing Blast and Repelling Blast are still here but with a couple of big changes.
First, they are no longer limited to Eldritch Blast. Instead, you choose one of your known Warlock cantrips that deals damage, and now you can add your Charisma modifier to that damage roll. So now you can boost damage for Toll the Dead or Thunderclap with Agonizing Blast if that suits your Warlock build better than Eldritch Blast. Note, however, that Repelling Blast is restricted to cantrips that deal damage via an attack roll.
Next, you can select these invocations multiple times when adding new Eldritch Invocations. So if you’re trying to build a cantrip powerhouse, you could add Agonizing Blast or Repelling Blast to multiple cantrips. But of course, you still can use it for Eldritch Blast because, let’s face it, if you’re a Warlock, you’re probably going to want to.
Spell Slots? Who Needs ‘em?
With the exception of Eldritch Smite, which deals a significant amount of damage and gives an enemy the Prone condition, none of the 2024 Player’s Handbook Eldritch Invocations carry the "using a Warlock spell slot" description. You still have spell slots for your Pact Magic, but they largely no longer fuel the invocations you get from your patron. Instead, your Eldritch Invocations feel like a wholly separate power branch unique to the Warlock class.
The customization allowed via these changes to invocations makes the 2024 Warlock feel more like someone who has pored over contracts with their patron and selected the powers best suited to them.
The Eldritch Invocation spells you can cast without expending a spell slot falls into Casting without Slots. 5E2024 has let go of "at-will" references in Invocations, cantrips etc.
Another Warlock feature Contact Patron, give you a spell always prepared, meaning you can cast it with spell slot via Pact Magic and without a spell slot via Contact Patron.
I think they should clarify if the Warlock feature Eldritch Invocations letting you cast spells without expending a spell slot can also let you cast them with a spell slot. So far only spells you can cast with Pact of the Tomes are prepared and cast normally.
Contact Patron: In the past, you usually contacted your patron through intermediaries. Now you can communicate directly; you always have the Contact Other Plane spell prepared. With this feature, you can cast the spell without expending a spell slot to contact your patron, and you automatically succeed on the spell’s saving throw.
The Archey Patron has two different level 3 features, one making Misty Step always prepared, and another letting cast it without expending a spell slot some times but it would be unnecessary if features letting you cast spells without expending a spell slot counted as always prepared isn't it?
Archey Spells: The magic of your patron ensures you always have certain spells ready; when you reach a Warlock level specified in the Archfey Spells table, you thereafter always have the listed spells prepared. Level 3: Calm Emotions, Faerie Fire, Misty Step, Phantasmal Force, Sleep
Step of the Fey: Your patron grants you the ability to move between the boundaries of the planes. You can cast Misty Step without expending a spell slot a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest. In addition, whenever you cast that spell, you can choose one of the following additional effects.
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The rules are unfortunately a bit inconsistent with the terminology involved in the various forms of spellcasting. There is still the concept of known or learned spells, particularly when it comes to casting Cantrips. There are also the concepts of prepared spells and always prepared spells. There is also the term [class] spell (such as "Warlock spell") and there are also some features which state that a spell is added to the class list.
If it's true that a "known" or "learned" spell should be considered to be automatically and/or always prepared then there really should be a rule somewhere that explicitly says so, but so far, I am not seeing one. On the other hand, that Chapter 7 general rule which states that "Before you can cast a spell, you must have the spell prepared in your mind" seems inconsistent without this assumption, since you wouldn't be able to cast Cantrips at all.
There is also the possibility that the same word is being used in two different contexts. The Chapter 7 general rule might be saying that you must have the spell prepared in your mind, which might include known and learned and "officially prepared" spells. Meaning, some spells are already fixed in your mind and those spells are "prepared" to be cast (or, another way to think of it is that they don't need to go through any sort of actual "preparation process" to become fixed in your mind -- it's already there. But then, most of the time a Level 1+ spell is not permanently fixed in your mind and in order to actually put that spell into your mind such that it is ready to be cast, you must follow the procedure for "preparing" that spell so that it enters your mind. If it works like this, I think it would have been better for that general rule to use the phrase that the spell must be "fixed in your mind" instead of "prepared in your mind" so that we don't potentially have two different connotations of the word "prepared". Alternatively, put an explicit statement into the general rules somewhere that a known or learned spell counts as being always prepared.
Under this interpretation, a known spell might be prepared to be cast, but it's not a spell that is "always prepared" in the same way that other features explicitly say that the spell is "always prepared" (as if you actually followed the procedure for preparing a spell).
As for the spellcasting ability issue, we have this rule from the Creating a Character chapter:
So technically, if you are using an Eldritch Invocation to cast a spell you wouldn't be able to use the spellcasting ability that is provided in the Pact Magic feature since that's a separate feature with separate rules. That would be true regardless of whether the spell being cast was considered to be a Warlock spell or not. This would mean that for those couple of spells which refer to the spell save DC in the spell description, I suppose you would use a spellcasting ability modifier of +0, although that's not well defined.
A lot of this doesn't even necessarily apply to the Invocations anyway since they are not even explicitly "known" or "learned" spells, nor are they explicitly "always prepared" spells. Instead, you basically just "invoke" the ability to cast these spells. Unless -- and this might be a bit of a stretch -- we consider the general description of an Eldritch Invocation which is that these are "pieces of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability or other lessons." If such abilities come from pieces of knowledge, perhaps that means that we "know" the spell? From a Rules perspective, relying on this . . . is not great.
The end result is that we really should not consider the spells from the Eldritch Invocations (except for Invisibility) to be "Warlock spells" for the purposes of qualifying as a spell of this category when mentioned by features that are worded like the "Psychic Spells" feature (When you cast a Warlock spell . . . [something happens]). They are not on the Warlock spell list. The Invocations do not explicitly say that the spell counts as a Warlock spell for you. The Invocations do not explicitly say that the spell is always prepared (which, at least for the purposes of the Pact Magic feature, would cause them to then count as Warlock spells for you as per the wording of that portion of the Pact Magic feature). They do not even explicitly say that the spell is "known" or "learned" for any sort of implicit "always prepared" purposes. As written, there is just no mechanism that makes the Eldritch Invocation spells become Warlock spells. This might not be the intent, but that's what the rules currently say.
The original post in this thread was specifically about which spells the Psychic Spells feature of the '24 GOO warlock might apply to
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Ah, okay. I only looked at the D&D Beyond headers as I looked through the Invocations that granted spells. I also don't know if there are any non-core invocations that could expand the list. I think the Jeremy Crawford comment about invocations being Warlock spells should continue to be considered RAI. However, they are still not prepared.
Plaguescarred's comment was specifically about Invocations. Not about the Psychic Spells feature.
And if invocations give you Warlock spells, then the Psychic Spells feature can be applied to them
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Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
And I still wasn't disputing whether Psychic Spells applied, at least not directly; I was responding to Plaguescarred's question about invocations.
Now, if you had proposed that Psychic Spells is a reason that invocations being Warlock spells matters because it removed the verbal and somatic components of Mage Armor, that would have been helpful. If your intent was to bring that forward as an example, I didn't recognize it as such and, honestly, redirecting the thread back to the original topic just confused the matter.
If Eldritch Invocations spells count as Warlock spell always prepared then you can also normally cast/upcast them using a spell slot and potentially apply Psychic Spell to them.
If Eldritch Invocations spells don't count as Warlock spell always prepared then you can't cast/upcast them using a spell slot or apply Psychic Spell to them.
The Pact of the Chain makes you learn the Find Familiar spell and can cast it as a Magic action without expending a spell slot.
And Pact of the Tome grant you spells that while the book is on your person, have chosen spells prepared that function as Warlock spells for you.
The rest of Eldritch Invocations simply let you cast the spell without expending a spell slot.
Also, Eldritch Invocations are Warlock Features. Additionally Ch 7 has a rule about gaining spells: "you must have the spell prepared in your mind or have access to the spell from a magic item". If you are to actually take that rule on its face value, then every spell that you cast must be prepared in your mind in some way. Most features tell you how, but Invocations do not tell you how. But that rule still tells you that it must be prepared. That makes the most consistent ruling is that invocation spells are prepared through a warlock feature.
And as a reminder, there are a handful of invocation spells that become at least in part non-functional without a spellcasting stat.
And again, I think it is the most likely intent that they count as warlock spells. Interestingly, since none of them require a save for effect or attack roll upon casting, DDB doesn't indicate the spellcasting modifier used with them -- the saves and attack come later.
There's only two invocations - Misty Visions Silent Image and Mask of Many Faces Disguise Self - that may interact with your spell save DC and they're not saving throws, but ability check where a creature takes a Study action to examine or inspect and make an Intelligence (Investigation) check against your spell save DC, which is a score written on your sheet.
Which one do you use if you have more than one?
It's definitely problematic because your spellcasting ability modifier for a spell is determined by whatever feature gives you the ability to cast the spell, but
The feature Pact Magic doesn't say spells you can cast with Eldritch Invocation count as Warlock spell for you.
The feature Eldritch Invocations doesn't say spells you can cast with them count as Warlock spells always prepared for you or that it use your Warlock spell DC, only one Invocation, Investment of the Chain Master specifically say it use Your Save DC.
It might in part be intended but RAW is missing something it seems like.
The other possibility of course is that the Eldritch Invocations such as Armor of Shadows are just creating a specific exception to this general rule. The Invocation does not say that the spell is prepared or that it is learned or that it is known. The closest that we have to those concepts is that Invocations are generally defined as "pieces of forbidden knowledge that imbue you with an abiding magical ability or other lessons". Maybe that means that this forbidden knowledge has prepared that spell into your mind, but that's a pretty big stretch.
Also keep in mind that we need to keep our features straight. We follow the rules for whichever feature we are using. So, we should keep in mind that this rule:
"If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you."
. . . is a Pact Magic rule. So, this is basically a method for allowing certain spells to be cast with the Pact Magic feature that otherwise might not qualify for that. But this probably does not allow you to cast the spell by using the Invocation rules (without using a spell slot, for example) and still have this count as a Warlock spell for the purposes of triggering a separate passive feature such as those with similar wording to the Psychic Spells feature ("When you cast a Warlock spell . . . [something happens]").
The purpose of that Pact Magic rule is to open the door to the possibility of other features explicitly stating that you have a spell "always prepared" so that you can then go back and cast that spell with the Pact Magic feature, not with some other feature.
One clear example of this is in the mechanic that is created by the Pact of the Tome. The Pact of the Tome invocation doesn't actually provide any method of casting the spells that it introduces. Instead, it explicitly prepares those spells so that you can then use the Pact Magic feature to cast them.
The other interesting example is the Level 9: Contact Patron class feature. That feature actually indirectly provides two different methods of casting the spell in question and there is some carefully chosen unique wording used to indicate this. First, the spell is explicitly always prepared. This gives you the ability to cast this spell, as a Warlock spell, by using the Pact Magic feature to do so. But secondly, "with this feature" you can cast this spell without expending a spell slot in specifically defined situations. Using "this feature" (instead of the Pact Magic feature) to do this is limited to once per long rest. So, this spell can be cast either with the Pact Magic feature or with the Eldritch Invocation feature, each following its own rules to do so. This spell probably only counts as a Warlock spell if the Pact Magic feature was used to cast it.
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you.
IN NOT THE SAME AS
If another Warlock feature gives you spells, those spells are always prepared and don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you.
I disagree. There actually are Warlock features that are written with this specific explicit wording about providing spells which are "always prepared" (such as the Pact of the Tome Invocation and the Contact Patron class feature. In the case of Contact Patron, it allows its own method of casting, and it also explicitly causes the spell to be always prepared, so we shouldn't automatically assume that features that allow spellcasting automatically cause the spell to be "always prepared", otherwise there wouldn't have been any reason to write this Contact Patron feature in this way. So, it appears that this differentiation is intentional to the design.
I mean, they're spells you can cast at will. I'm sure you can flavor a warlock in a way that they aren't prepared by you in some fashion, but mechanically, treating them as prepared is the only way that really works
In fact, that Gaining Spells section Wolf cited earlier doesn't even have a section for "at-will" spells, just "always-prepared" ones
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Basically, if you choose to rule that, say, Mask of Many Faces doesn't give you disguise self as an always-prepared Warlock spell, there's no alternative mechanical option for determining what it is, exactly
If the choice is 'existing rule that also makes intuitive sense' and 'no rule at all', I don't buy 'no rule' as the correct RAW interpretation
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
This text from the pre-release article 2024 Warlock vs. 2014 Warlock might help with the debate:
The Eldritch Invocation spells you can cast without expending a spell slot falls into Casting without Slots. 5E2024 has let go of "at-will" references in Invocations, cantrips etc.
Another Warlock feature Contact Patron, give you a spell always prepared, meaning you can cast it with spell slot via Pact Magic and without a spell slot via Contact Patron.
I think they should clarify if the Warlock feature Eldritch Invocations letting you cast spells without expending a spell slot can also let you cast them with a spell slot. So far only spells you can cast with Pact of the Tomes are prepared and cast normally.
The Archey Patron has two different level 3 features, one making Misty Step always prepared, and another letting cast it without expending a spell slot some times but it would be unnecessary if features letting you cast spells without expending a spell slot counted as always prepared isn't it?