When you know or prepare a spell, you're doing so using the feature which allows dor it. You cast those spells using the same feature. You don't get to use another feature to do it, because they're only accessible due to the feature being used.
Yes, for the most part this is all true about how the rules work. I just disagree that this has anything to do with what the term "Warlock spell" actually means, which is what the Original Post was asking.
If your interpretation were accepted true, then any species traits which grant spells can also be cast with an appropriate spellcasting focus so long as the spell is also found on a class spell list. And I thought we already established that isn't the case, since those features don't say so.
Correct -- that's currently my interpretation of how the Spellcasting Focus rules work. I'm less confident about this detail than about the rest of it though. The Spellcasting Ability rules explicitly must be used only with the feature that provides the spell, but there does not seem to be a similar restriction on the Spellcasting Focus rules anywhere that I can find.
In that case, as long as the spell is cast from your mind and as long as the spell is on the correct (class) spell list, then you can use that Spellcasting Focus, even if you aren't using the Spellcasting feature to cast the spell.
You are using the Cleric or Wizard Spellcasting feature to cast a spell as written in each of their respective Spellcasting feature:
Prepared Spells of Level 1+. You prepare the list of level 1+ spells that are available for you to cast with this feature.
Yes, I get what you are saying with this but right now I just don't think that the Spellcasting Focus rule is restricted in this way.
Let me try to come up with a better example:
Suppose I am a Cleric/Wizard. The spell in question is found on both the Cleric spell list and the Wizard spell list. Based on how the game defines the terms, this makes the spell both a Cleric spell and a Wizard spell.
Now, suppose that I use my Cleric's Spellcasting feature to prepare the spell such that it is added to my Cleric list of prepared level 1+ spells. As you've said, the feature states that: "You prepare the list of level 1+ spells that are available for you to cast with this feature." Keep in mind that this does NOT actually say that this prepared spell can NOT be cast with some other feature. But I don't really want to argue that point so let's not worry too much about that for now.
However, that's really the main reason why we actually need the multiclass rule to explicitly create that restriction:
"Each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell."
So, when I used the Cleric Spellcasting feature to prepare the spell, the spell becomes a prepared spell AND the spell is added to the Cleric list of prepared level 1+ spells AND the spell becomes associated with my Cleric class which means that when I cast this spell, I must use the Cleric's Spellcasting Ability (the Spellcasting Focus is not mentioned here). Pretty much the only way to accomplish this is to actually use the Cleric's Spellcasting feature to cast the spell, especially since we also have this general rule about the Spellcasting Ability:
Your spellcasting ability modifier for a spell is determined by whatever feature gives you the ability to cast the spell.
Ok, so it is now established that I prepared the spell with Cleric Spellcasting feature and then I cast the spell with the Cleric Spellcasting feature so that I can apply the correct Spellcasting Ability. That feature has this rule about the Spellcasting Focus: "You can use a Holy Symbol as a Spellcasting Focus for your Cleric spells." Remember, whenever we see the word "can", that means that doing whatever is described is optional.
Ok, now here is the part that I am hoping people will read with an open mind:
Let's pretend for a moment that my Wizard Spellcasting feature was mostly erased. The ONLY text remaining in the entirety of my Wizard Spellcasting feature is this:
"You can use an Arcane Focus or your spellbook as a Spellcasting Focus for your Wizard spells."
So, as soon as I achieve Level 1 as a Wizard, this above feature is "unlocked" for me.
So, when I used my Cleric Spellcasting feature to cast this spell which is both a Cleric spell and a Wizard spell from my mind (which makes it one of my Cleric Spells and one of my Wizard Spells) . . . where exactly is the rule which prevents me from using my Arcane Focus or my spellbook as a Spellcasting Focus when casting this spell in this way? I am using the Cleric Spellcasting Ability rule (as required by the multiclass rule) and my Wizard Spellcasting Focus rule -- both of these rules in and of themselves only require the spell to exist on a particular (class) spell list and to be "prepared in your mind" for casting. Using the "correct" Spellcasting Ability rule is forced, but I do not see a similar restriction about which Spellcasting Focus rule you have to use when you cast a spell.
I might be missing something here, but it wouldn't be something simple that others have suggested so far.
In that case, as long as the spell is cast from your mind and as long as the spell is on the correct (class) spell list, then you can use that Spellcasting Focus, even if you aren't using the Spellcasting feature to cast the spell.
You are using the Cleric or Wizard Spellcasting feature to cast a spell as written in each of their respective Spellcasting feature:
Prepared Spells of Level 1+. You prepare the list of level 1+ spells that are available for you to cast with this feature.
Can I just take a moment to express how grateful I am that, while every other player I have ever known, as well as the rules of the English language, are so ready to deceive us into believing that the spells in the actual Warlock spell list (and the patron spells) are what are Warlock spells, Up2ng is here to set us straight and let us know that any and every spell is a Warlock spell as long as the Warlock player wants it to be.
What in the world are you even talking about with this? I have never said such a thing. Warlock spells are exactly what the written rules say are Warlock spells. There are tons of spells in the game that are not Warlock spells. This even includes many spells that are cast via Warlock features such as the Eldritch Invocations. If you really are talking about "the actual Warlock spell list", which is the big list of spells that is published at the back of the Warlock class, then that is correct. But if you are actually using that terminology incorrectly and you are instead referring to the Warlock's list of Prepared Spells of Level 1+ then that is incorrect. One way in which that should be obvious is that this small list doesn't even include the Cantrips so it literally cannot be correct. But mostly it's just because of what the written rules actually say, which has been quoted several times now.
There is a difference between being a Warlock spell and your Warlock spells, and the only ones which can be yours are the ones you've prepared using the feature.
There is a difference between being a Warlock spell and your Warlock spells, and the only ones which can be yours are the ones you've prepared using the feature.
Sure, I agree that there is a pretty big distinction between the terms "Warlock spells" and "your Warlock spells".
The term "your Warlock spells" isn't very well defined. The intention seems to be that it's sort of a shorthand way of referring to the spells that you can cast with the Pact Magic feature and as far as I know this phrase is only ever used within the Pact Magic feature itself.
My own interpretation of this term is that "your Warlock spells" means "Warlock spells that are prepared in your mind" (regardless of how they got there). This would include the following:
-- Spells which appear on your Warlock list of Prepared Spells of Level 1+.
-- Known Warlock Cantrips, such as (but not necessarily limited to) the ones provided by the Pact Magic feature.
-- Other "known" or "learned" Warlock spells (perhaps learned from a Feat, for example).
-- Always Prepared Warlock spells, such as from a Feat, or such as the ones that are gained through the special Pact Magic rule which states that "If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you".
-- Any spell which "counts as a Warlock spell for you" that is also "prepared in your mind" for casting.
In my opinion, "your Warlock spells" would NOT include the following:
-- Warlock spells that are not prepared in the mind, such as the Invisibility spell when cast by using the rules from the One with Shadows Eldritch Invocation.
-- Warlock spells that are cast from a Magic Item (and are therefore not prepared in the mind).
-- Spells that are not Warlock spells (such as many of the spells that are cast by using the rules from the Eldritch Invocation feature).
**********
Now, having said all of that, keep in mind that the Original Post of this thread was asking about the term "Warlock spells" (not "your Warlock spells") as it appears in features such as "Psychic Spells" ("When you cast a Warlock spell . . . [something happens]").
There is a difference between being a Warlock spell and your Warlock spells, and the only ones which can be yours are the ones you've prepared using the feature.
Sure, I agree that there is a pretty big distinction between the terms "Warlock spells" and "your Warlock spells".
The term "your Warlock spells" isn't very well defined. The intention seems to be that it's sort of a shorthand way of referring to the spells that you can cast with the Pact Magic feature and as far as I know this phrase is only ever used within the Pact Magic feature itself.
My own interpretation of this term is that "your Warlock spells" means "Warlock spells that are prepared in your mind" (regardless of how they got there).
Yeah, no, and for a few reasons.
I'm finding it difficult to square the circle of there being both a sizable distinction and having the distinction ill-defined, because how can you define the distinction when you don't know what it is?
That's not how a class' spellcasting feature works.
When a class feature grants additional prepared spells, those spells don't count against the number of prepared spells and always count as class spells for the character. And it's those spells which are eligible to be used with a spellcasting focus. When it comes to the Warlock class, we all have the following options beyond Pact Magic for gaining new spells:
Eldritch Invocation: Pact of the Tome...to gain three cantrips and two 1st-level ritual spells from any spell list while holding the tome, which can also serve as a spellcasting focus
Eldritch Invocation: Lesson of the First Ones...to gain Magic Initiate as an Origin Feat
Subclass (Archfey, Celestial, Fiend, etc.) Spells...gained when you choose your patron and grows as select Warlock levels
Ability Score Improvement...to gain a feat (Fey-Touched, Ritual Caster, Shadow-Touched, etc.) for which you qualify
Contact Patron
Any spells gained from an Origin Feat or a Species Trait, including backgrounds and the human Versatile trait, are not in the above list. I strongly suspect it's because both your species and background are narratively acquired before your class. Or independently, in the shadow of Reincarnate. Point being, their knowledge and preparation is divorced from the class.
I have trouble thinking that features really a distinction between, say, "Sorcerer spells you cast" and "your sorcerer spells."
Is anyone in this thread really saying that the advantage and DC improvement from innate sorcery really work on two different lists? Ie.e an attack cantrip you prepare through the wizard class gets advantage while a save cantrip does not get a DC improvement? That's wild. And wrong.
I have trouble thinking that features really a distinction between, say, "Sorcerer spells you cast" and "your sorcerer spells."
Is anyone in this thread really saying that the advantage and DC improvement from innate sorcery really work on two different lists? Ie.e an attack cantrip you prepare through the wizard class gets advantage while a save cantrip does not get a DC improvement? That's wild. And wrong.
So if a Wizard 3/Sorcerer 1 uses Innate Sorcery and then cast Scorching Ray, you would allow them to roll with advantage even though they have no access to the spell as a Sorcerer except through scrolls? That's wild.
All of their spells prepared through wizard are neither their sorcerer spells or sorcerer spells they can cast. The example was to point out the absurdity the fact that one feature uses both terms that would require different interpretations if you read them to mean different spell lists.
I have trouble thinking that features really a distinction between, say, "Sorcerer spells you cast" and "your sorcerer spells."
Is anyone in this thread really saying that the advantage and DC improvement from innate sorcery really work on two different lists? Ie.e an attack cantrip you prepare through the wizard class gets advantage while a save cantrip does not get a DC improvement? That's wild. And wrong.
I'm not sure that I understand the question or the example here unfortunately.
If you are asking if there is a difference between "Sorcerer spells" and "your Sorcerer spells", the answer is yes there is a difference. Sorcerer spells are the spells which exist on the big Sorcerer Spell list that is published at the end of the class. Your Sorcerer spells is a subset of those -- these are the ones that are available for you to cast.
If you are asking if there is a difference between "the Sorcerer spells that are available for you to cast from your mind" and "your Sorcerer spells", the answer is no there is not -- those mean the same thing. At least under my interpretation . . . again, the term "your Sorcerer spells" is not actually explicitly defined anywhere in the game.
Ok, so I guess there is a question about the Sorcerer's Innate Sorcery feature? For reference, the relevant portion of that feature:
The spell save DC of your Sorcerer spells increases by 1.
You have Advantage on the attack rolls of Sorcerer spells you cast.
As a matter of fact, yes, these two bullet points apply to a different set of spells. If that is not the intent, then this wording should be fixed via errata.
For example, the second bullet point works even for Sorcerer spells that you cast via a Magic Item.
But under my interpretation, both of these bullet points would work for a Cantrip that you gained by following the rules of the Wizard Spellcasting feature as long as that Cantrip also appears on the Sorcerer spell list. Because to me, that counts as a spell that is a Sorcerer spell that is prepared in my mind for casting. Keep in mind that when such a spell is cast, I would be required by the multiclass rule to use the Wizard Spellcasting Ability.
I'm finding it difficult to square the circle of there being both a sizable distinction and having the distinction ill-defined, because how can you define the distinction when you don't know what it is?
This should be pretty straightforward. We know that there is a quite sizable distinction since the Class spell lists contain hundreds of spells. But "your (class) spells" is pretty clearly only referring to spells that are actually available for you to cast. No character has the ability to cast anywhere even close to all of the spells that are on the big Class spell list at any one moment in time. They typically prepare a very small list from among those many hundreds of possible spells. How exactly we define "your (class) spells" within that framework has some wiggle room since the game doesn't actually define exactly what the term means. But at the very least it is limited to spells that you can actually cast.
When a class feature grants additional prepared spells, those spells don't count against the number of prepared spells and always count as class spells for the character.
Yes, I agree with this, but ONLY because every published Spellcasting feature and Pact Magic feature contains a rule which explicitly says this. This is generally a way for class features to provide some spells that are NOT on that class's spell list. This rule converts those non-class spells into class spells "for you" because you got them from a class feature.
But why should we assume that any of this is necessary for a spell that is already on the Class spell list? We don't need any rule to tell us that such a spell now counts as a (class) spell for us, because it is already a (class) spell.
And why should we assume that the Spellcasting feature is the only way that such a (class) spell can be prepared? There is nothing in the game that says that. it only says that the Spellcasting feature DOES work to prepare that type of spell. But I might have other ways of preparing that type of spell. If so, why should we assume that the Spellcasting feature would be unable to cast that spell? Again, nothing says that. If that spell is prepared and it is the correct type of spell, then my Spellcasting feature for that type of spell can cast it.
And it's those spells which are eligible to be used with a spellcasting focus.
For the Spellcasting Focus rule, the only restriction (specific or general) that I see with respect to the application of a Spellcasting Focus rule is that you have to have one in order to use one and every specific rule simply states that you can use one "for your (class) spells". So, it will depend on where we land on the definition of "your (class) spells". Currently, I believe that it makes the most sense for "your Warlock spells" to be "Warlock spells that are prepared in your mind for casting".
Any spells gained from an Origin Feat or a Species Trait, including backgrounds and the human Versatile trait, are not in the above list. I strongly suspect it's because both your species and background are narratively acquired before your class. Or independently, in the shadow of Reincarnate. Point being, their knowledge and preparation is divorced from the class.
I disagree with this. Just because you "learn" a spell via an Origin Feat, background or Species trait does not mean that that spell does not exist on one or more (Class) spell lists. Now, if for some reason that feature, feat or trait does not provide its own method of casting that spell and you end up choosing a class whose Class list does not contain this spell, then you might not have any actual method of casting that spell, even though the spell might be "learned" or "known" or "prepared" or "always prepared". But that still doesn't mean that the spell is not listed on any of the Class lists.
Narratively, these spells exist on the Class lists long before the character is even born. It's just part of the nature of the D&D world. The spells are what they are. Some traits, feats and features will provide you with a method of preparing those spells and some of them will provide you with a method of casting those spells, and it won't necessarily be the same trait, feat or feature which does both of those things.
Your [Class] spell are the spells you have gained from your class, either by knowing them or preparing them. Even if a spell appears on a class' spell list, how you can actually use the spell still matters.
Ok, so this is your interpretation of the term "your [Class] spell" which the game never explicitly defines. Fair enough. Since there is no clear definition, we all have to come up with our own interpretation for this term. Is there anything that the rules actually do say that you can point to which supports your interpretation? How did you decide that that's what the term "your [Class] spell" means?
It sort of seems like you are parsing it as something like "( your [Class] ) ( spells )" instead of "( your ) ( [Class] spells )".
One reason why I see it more like the latter is because there is already a very well-defined term: "[Class] spells". So logically, we can easily extend that into something that is just a possessive concept: your . . . [Class] spells. Meaning, "[Class] spells that are yours". Aren't all of your known and prepared spells "your spells"? Why wouldn't they be? Out of all of "your spells", aren't some of those "your [Class] spells" just depending on which ones are [Class] spells? Why wouldn't they be?
But besides the grammatical reasons, we can just go back to the standard rule of thumb: Rules do what they say. There are general rules which apply by default. Then, there are species traits, Feats, Class features, spell descriptions and so on which have rules that become available when a character meets certain requirements. Those rules do what they say, sometimes superseding the general rules. But there aren't really very many rules which state that only this rule applies or only that rule applies or that sometimes a rule should be ignored.
So, if there is a rule in place that defines a spell as a Warlock spell, and that Warlock spell is prepared in your mind for casting, and we have access to a rule that allows us to cast one of "your Warlock spells", then why is there a common interpretation that this spell is only a Warlock spell if it was prepared in a certain way? There is just no rule anywhere that says that, and rules only do what they say.
I'm curious to hear the rules support for your interpretation for what "your Warlock spell" means as used in a few places within the Pact Magic feature.
I'll just quickly add that I noticed another bit of wording in the rules that seems to support my interpretation of "your Warlock spells".
In the Pact Magic feature, in the explanation for switching out Cantrips, they use this wording:
"Whenever you gain a Warlock level, you can replace one of your cantrips from this feature with another Warlock cantrip of your choice."
The use of the phrase "from this feature" explicitly restricts you from being able to swap out one of your Cantrips that you learned from another class and replace it with a Warlock cantrip. If they had used the phrase "you can replace one of your Warlock cantrips", it may have had a meaning that was not intended.
But in the places where the phrase "your Warlock spells" was used, the authors didn't choose to do this. To me, this is more evidence that "your Warlock spells" is intended to be a broader term which encompasses all of your Warlock spells -- not just the Warlock spells that were prepared "from this feature".
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Well, I'm a fast typist, so that's not the part that is exhausting for me, but I appreciate the concern.
Yes, for the most part this is all true about how the rules work. I just disagree that this has anything to do with what the term "Warlock spell" actually means, which is what the Original Post was asking.
Correct -- that's currently my interpretation of how the Spellcasting Focus rules work. I'm less confident about this detail than about the rest of it though. The Spellcasting Ability rules explicitly must be used only with the feature that provides the spell, but there does not seem to be a similar restriction on the Spellcasting Focus rules anywhere that I can find.
Yes, I get what you are saying with this but right now I just don't think that the Spellcasting Focus rule is restricted in this way.
Let me try to come up with a better example:
Suppose I am a Cleric/Wizard. The spell in question is found on both the Cleric spell list and the Wizard spell list. Based on how the game defines the terms, this makes the spell both a Cleric spell and a Wizard spell.
Now, suppose that I use my Cleric's Spellcasting feature to prepare the spell such that it is added to my Cleric list of prepared level 1+ spells. As you've said, the feature states that: "You prepare the list of level 1+ spells that are available for you to cast with this feature." Keep in mind that this does NOT actually say that this prepared spell can NOT be cast with some other feature. But I don't really want to argue that point so let's not worry too much about that for now.
However, that's really the main reason why we actually need the multiclass rule to explicitly create that restriction:
"Each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell."
So, when I used the Cleric Spellcasting feature to prepare the spell, the spell becomes a prepared spell AND the spell is added to the Cleric list of prepared level 1+ spells AND the spell becomes associated with my Cleric class which means that when I cast this spell, I must use the Cleric's Spellcasting Ability (the Spellcasting Focus is not mentioned here). Pretty much the only way to accomplish this is to actually use the Cleric's Spellcasting feature to cast the spell, especially since we also have this general rule about the Spellcasting Ability:
Ok, so it is now established that I prepared the spell with Cleric Spellcasting feature and then I cast the spell with the Cleric Spellcasting feature so that I can apply the correct Spellcasting Ability. That feature has this rule about the Spellcasting Focus: "You can use a Holy Symbol as a Spellcasting Focus for your Cleric spells." Remember, whenever we see the word "can", that means that doing whatever is described is optional.
Ok, now here is the part that I am hoping people will read with an open mind:
Let's pretend for a moment that my Wizard Spellcasting feature was mostly erased. The ONLY text remaining in the entirety of my Wizard Spellcasting feature is this:
"You can use an Arcane Focus or your spellbook as a Spellcasting Focus for your Wizard spells."
So, as soon as I achieve Level 1 as a Wizard, this above feature is "unlocked" for me.
So, when I used my Cleric Spellcasting feature to cast this spell which is both a Cleric spell and a Wizard spell from my mind (which makes it one of my Cleric Spells and one of my Wizard Spells) . . . where exactly is the rule which prevents me from using my Arcane Focus or my spellbook as a Spellcasting Focus when casting this spell in this way? I am using the Cleric Spellcasting Ability rule (as required by the multiclass rule) and my Wizard Spellcasting Focus rule -- both of these rules in and of themselves only require the spell to exist on a particular (class) spell list and to be "prepared in your mind" for casting. Using the "correct" Spellcasting Ability rule is forced, but I do not see a similar restriction about which Spellcasting Focus rule you have to use when you cast a spell.
I might be missing something here, but it wouldn't be something simple that others have suggested so far.
There is a difference between being a Warlock spell and your Warlock spells, and the only ones which can be yours are the ones you've prepared using the feature.
Sure, I agree that there is a pretty big distinction between the terms "Warlock spells" and "your Warlock spells".
The term "your Warlock spells" isn't very well defined. The intention seems to be that it's sort of a shorthand way of referring to the spells that you can cast with the Pact Magic feature and as far as I know this phrase is only ever used within the Pact Magic feature itself.
My own interpretation of this term is that "your Warlock spells" means "Warlock spells that are prepared in your mind" (regardless of how they got there). This would include the following:
-- Spells which appear on your Warlock list of Prepared Spells of Level 1+.
-- Known Warlock Cantrips, such as (but not necessarily limited to) the ones provided by the Pact Magic feature.
-- Other "known" or "learned" Warlock spells (perhaps learned from a Feat, for example).
-- Always Prepared Warlock spells, such as from a Feat, or such as the ones that are gained through the special Pact Magic rule which states that "If another Warlock feature gives you spells that you always have prepared, those spells don’t count against the number of spells you can prepare with this feature, but those spells otherwise count as Warlock spells for you".
-- Any spell which "counts as a Warlock spell for you" that is also "prepared in your mind" for casting.
In my opinion, "your Warlock spells" would NOT include the following:
-- Warlock spells that are not prepared in the mind, such as the Invisibility spell when cast by using the rules from the One with Shadows Eldritch Invocation.
-- Warlock spells that are cast from a Magic Item (and are therefore not prepared in the mind).
-- Spells that are not Warlock spells (such as many of the spells that are cast by using the rules from the Eldritch Invocation feature).
**********
Now, having said all of that, keep in mind that the Original Post of this thread was asking about the term "Warlock spells" (not "your Warlock spells") as it appears in features such as "Psychic Spells" ("When you cast a Warlock spell . . . [something happens]").
Yeah, no, and for a few reasons.
When a class feature grants additional prepared spells, those spells don't count against the number of prepared spells and always count as class spells for the character. And it's those spells which are eligible to be used with a spellcasting focus. When it comes to the Warlock class, we all have the following options beyond Pact Magic for gaining new spells:
Any spells gained from an Origin Feat or a Species Trait, including backgrounds and the human Versatile trait, are not in the above list. I strongly suspect it's because both your species and background are narratively acquired before your class. Or independently, in the shadow of Reincarnate. Point being, their knowledge and preparation is divorced from the class.
I have trouble thinking that features really a distinction between, say, "Sorcerer spells you cast" and "your sorcerer spells."
Is anyone in this thread really saying that the advantage and DC improvement from innate sorcery really work on two different lists? Ie.e an attack cantrip you prepare through the wizard class gets advantage while a save cantrip does not get a DC improvement? That's wild. And wrong.
So if a Wizard 3/Sorcerer 1 uses Innate Sorcery and then cast Scorching Ray, you would allow them to roll with advantage even though they have no access to the spell as a Sorcerer except through scrolls? That's wild.
Not at all.
All of their spells prepared through wizard are neither their sorcerer spells or sorcerer spells they can cast. The example was to point out the absurdity the fact that one feature uses both terms that would require different interpretations if you read them to mean different spell lists.
I'm not sure that I understand the question or the example here unfortunately.
If you are asking if there is a difference between "Sorcerer spells" and "your Sorcerer spells", the answer is yes there is a difference. Sorcerer spells are the spells which exist on the big Sorcerer Spell list that is published at the end of the class. Your Sorcerer spells is a subset of those -- these are the ones that are available for you to cast.
If you are asking if there is a difference between "the Sorcerer spells that are available for you to cast from your mind" and "your Sorcerer spells", the answer is no there is not -- those mean the same thing. At least under my interpretation . . . again, the term "your Sorcerer spells" is not actually explicitly defined anywhere in the game.
Ok, so I guess there is a question about the Sorcerer's Innate Sorcery feature? For reference, the relevant portion of that feature:
As a matter of fact, yes, these two bullet points apply to a different set of spells. If that is not the intent, then this wording should be fixed via errata.
For example, the second bullet point works even for Sorcerer spells that you cast via a Magic Item.
But under my interpretation, both of these bullet points would work for a Cantrip that you gained by following the rules of the Wizard Spellcasting feature as long as that Cantrip also appears on the Sorcerer spell list. Because to me, that counts as a spell that is a Sorcerer spell that is prepared in my mind for casting. Keep in mind that when such a spell is cast, I would be required by the multiclass rule to use the Wizard Spellcasting Ability.
This should be pretty straightforward. We know that there is a quite sizable distinction since the Class spell lists contain hundreds of spells. But "your (class) spells" is pretty clearly only referring to spells that are actually available for you to cast. No character has the ability to cast anywhere even close to all of the spells that are on the big Class spell list at any one moment in time. They typically prepare a very small list from among those many hundreds of possible spells. How exactly we define "your (class) spells" within that framework has some wiggle room since the game doesn't actually define exactly what the term means. But at the very least it is limited to spells that you can actually cast.
Yes, I agree with this, but ONLY because every published Spellcasting feature and Pact Magic feature contains a rule which explicitly says this. This is generally a way for class features to provide some spells that are NOT on that class's spell list. This rule converts those non-class spells into class spells "for you" because you got them from a class feature.
But why should we assume that any of this is necessary for a spell that is already on the Class spell list? We don't need any rule to tell us that such a spell now counts as a (class) spell for us, because it is already a (class) spell.
And why should we assume that the Spellcasting feature is the only way that such a (class) spell can be prepared? There is nothing in the game that says that. it only says that the Spellcasting feature DOES work to prepare that type of spell. But I might have other ways of preparing that type of spell. If so, why should we assume that the Spellcasting feature would be unable to cast that spell? Again, nothing says that. If that spell is prepared and it is the correct type of spell, then my Spellcasting feature for that type of spell can cast it.
For the Spellcasting Focus rule, the only restriction (specific or general) that I see with respect to the application of a Spellcasting Focus rule is that you have to have one in order to use one and every specific rule simply states that you can use one "for your (class) spells". So, it will depend on where we land on the definition of "your (class) spells". Currently, I believe that it makes the most sense for "your Warlock spells" to be "Warlock spells that are prepared in your mind for casting".
I disagree with this. Just because you "learn" a spell via an Origin Feat, background or Species trait does not mean that that spell does not exist on one or more (Class) spell lists. Now, if for some reason that feature, feat or trait does not provide its own method of casting that spell and you end up choosing a class whose Class list does not contain this spell, then you might not have any actual method of casting that spell, even though the spell might be "learned" or "known" or "prepared" or "always prepared". But that still doesn't mean that the spell is not listed on any of the Class lists.
Narratively, these spells exist on the Class lists long before the character is even born. It's just part of the nature of the D&D world. The spells are what they are. Some traits, feats and features will provide you with a method of preparing those spells and some of them will provide you with a method of casting those spells, and it won't necessarily be the same trait, feat or feature which does both of those things.
Ok, so this is your interpretation of the term "your [Class] spell" which the game never explicitly defines. Fair enough. Since there is no clear definition, we all have to come up with our own interpretation for this term. Is there anything that the rules actually do say that you can point to which supports your interpretation? How did you decide that that's what the term "your [Class] spell" means?
It sort of seems like you are parsing it as something like "( your [Class] ) ( spells )" instead of "( your ) ( [Class] spells )".
One reason why I see it more like the latter is because there is already a very well-defined term: "[Class] spells". So logically, we can easily extend that into something that is just a possessive concept: your . . . [Class] spells. Meaning, "[Class] spells that are yours". Aren't all of your known and prepared spells "your spells"? Why wouldn't they be? Out of all of "your spells", aren't some of those "your [Class] spells" just depending on which ones are [Class] spells? Why wouldn't they be?
But besides the grammatical reasons, we can just go back to the standard rule of thumb: Rules do what they say. There are general rules which apply by default. Then, there are species traits, Feats, Class features, spell descriptions and so on which have rules that become available when a character meets certain requirements. Those rules do what they say, sometimes superseding the general rules. But there aren't really very many rules which state that only this rule applies or only that rule applies or that sometimes a rule should be ignored.
So, if there is a rule in place that defines a spell as a Warlock spell, and that Warlock spell is prepared in your mind for casting, and we have access to a rule that allows us to cast one of "your Warlock spells", then why is there a common interpretation that this spell is only a Warlock spell if it was prepared in a certain way? There is just no rule anywhere that says that, and rules only do what they say.
I'm curious to hear the rules support for your interpretation for what "your Warlock spell" means as used in a few places within the Pact Magic feature.
I'll just quickly add that I noticed another bit of wording in the rules that seems to support my interpretation of "your Warlock spells".
In the Pact Magic feature, in the explanation for switching out Cantrips, they use this wording:
"Whenever you gain a Warlock level, you can replace one of your cantrips from this feature with another Warlock cantrip of your choice."
The use of the phrase "from this feature" explicitly restricts you from being able to swap out one of your Cantrips that you learned from another class and replace it with a Warlock cantrip. If they had used the phrase "you can replace one of your Warlock cantrips", it may have had a meaning that was not intended.
But in the places where the phrase "your Warlock spells" was used, the authors didn't choose to do this. To me, this is more evidence that "your Warlock spells" is intended to be a broader term which encompasses all of your Warlock spells -- not just the Warlock spells that were prepared "from this feature".