Savage Attacker: You’ve trained to deal particularly damaging strikes. Once per turn when you hit a target with a weapon, you can roll the weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target.
True Strike: Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice). Cantrip Upgrade. Whether you deal Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type, the attack deals extra Radiant damage when you reach levels 5 (1d6), 11 (2d6), and 17 (3d6).
Does that mean that I can also reroll the bonus damage? (since this damage comes from the same attack roll)
How about the Cleric's Divine Strike?
Divine Strike. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with an attack roll using a weapon, you can cause the target to take an extra 1d8 Necrotic or Radiant damage (your choice).
Sage Advice (see here) says Savage Attacker only applies to the weapon's actual damage die, not to any additional damage effects that are tacked onto it.
Great Weapon Fighting just says a 1 or 2 die on the damage roll, it is not specific too the weapon's damage die unlike Savage Attacker which is. As per your own post
Savage Attacker: You’ve trained to deal particularly damaging strikes. Once per turn when you hit a target with a weapon, you can roll the weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target.
Whereas Great Weapon Fighting says:
When you roll damage for an attack you make with a Melee weapon that you are holding with two hands, you can treat any 1 or 2 on a damage die as a 3. The weapon must have the Two-Handed or Versatile property to gain this benefit.
Nothing here specifies that it is limited only to the weapon's damage die.
Nothing here specifies that it is limited only to the weapon's damage die.
WotC has ruled that it's indeed limited to the weapon's damage die here.
The Great Weapon Fighting feature—which is shared by fighters and paladins—is meant to benefit only the damage roll of the weapon used with the feature.
Nothing here specifies that it is limited only to the weapon's damage die.
WotC has ruled that it's indeed limited to the weapon's damage die here.
The Great Weapon Fighting feature—which is shared by fighters and paladins—is meant to benefit only the damage roll of the weapon used with the feature.
Mmmm interesting, the literal only thing that could save GWF is out the window then. It's literally a lame duck pick.
I disagree. Most damage rerolls, like Savage Attacker, work only once per turn. GWF works on every single damage roll. So it's really good for a Fighter with your extra attacks and action surge.
I disagree. Most damage rerolls, like Savage Attacker, work only once per turn. GWF works on every single damage roll. So it's really good for a Fighter with your extra attacks and action surge.
While GWF isn't limited like that, it's overall impact is still very low on a per attack basis, at least outside of 2d6 weapons, which means it really only works with greatsword or maul; And I still think blindfighting or defense would be better picks there. Perhaps for a Champion Fighter, since you can pick up Great Weapon Master and get a decent chance to critical hit every round and then get a higher rate of getting the additional bonus action attack too...
To me, both Savage Attacker and GWF are both vastly underwhelming, Savage Attacker is basically a "do not take this" and GWF works with only a very very limited number of builds, it's far too limited in viability. If Barbarian had fighting styles, then I could see where GWF would be good but as Barbarian does not have access to it, it works only really on very specific fighter builds and remains the not optimum choice.
This is strange. In other related posts, people generally agree you should be able to reroll the extra damage from True Strike, Divine Favor or Smites for Great Weapon Fighting:
When make one attack with the weapon via True Strike and hit, Savage Attacker should let you roll the weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target.
When make one attack with the weapon via True Strike and hit, Savage Attacker should let you roll the weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target.
You have trained to deal particularly damaging strikes. When you take the Attack Action and hit a target with a Weapon as part of that Action, you can roll the Weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
Unless you have a feature such as war magic, then you aren't making the attack as part of the attack action.
When make one attack with the weapon via True Strike and hit, Savage Attacker should let you roll the weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target.
You have trained to deal particularly damaging strikes. When you take the Attack Action and hit a target with a Weapon as part of that Action, you can roll the Weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target. You can use this benefit only once per turn.
Unless you have a feature such as war magic, then you aren't making the attack as part of the attack action.
Where did that come from? The description of Savage Attacker in both the 2014 and 2024 Player's Handbook doesn't have that bit about the Attack action in there, as far as I can see.
This is strange. In other related posts, people generally agree you should be able to reroll the extra damage from True Strike, Divine Favor or Smites for Great Weapon Fighting:
Pure RAW, the way GWF is worded means all damage dice that result from "an attack you make with a Melee weapon that you are holding with two hands" would be affected
By contrast, Savage Attacker specifies the weapon's damage dice, not the attack's
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
This is strange. In other related posts, people generally agree you should be able to reroll the extra damage from True Strike, Divine Favor or Smites for Great Weapon Fighting:
Pure RAW, the way GWF is worded means all damage dice that result from "an attack you make with a Melee weapon that you are holding with two hands" would be affected
By contrast, Savage Attacker specifies the weapon's damage dice, not the attack's
Yeah, it's how I see it too. The strange thing here is the SAC entry :-?
I disagree. Most damage rerolls, like Savage Attacker, work only once per turn. GWF works on every single damage roll. So it's really good for a Fighter with your extra attacks and action surge.
Savage Attacker is also pretty terrible, so saying it's better than savage attacker isn't saying much. GWF is, best case, half as good as dueling style (dueling style is +2 damage per hit, GWF with a greatsword or maul is +1).
This is strange. In other related posts, people generally agree you should be able to reroll the extra damage from True Strike, Divine Favor or Smites for Great Weapon Fighting:
Pure RAW, the way GWF is worded means all damage dice that result from "an attack you make with a Melee weapon that you are holding with two hands" would be affected
By contrast, Savage Attacker specifies the weapon's damage dice, not the attack's
Yeah, it's how I see it too. The strange thing here is the SAC entry :-?
Hmm. What's stranger still is that they have the 2014 wording, decided that it was confusing and needed a SAC clarification, and then effectively left the wording unchanged in 2024. Arguably, the 2024 wording is loser in a way that favors affecting all dice.
However, let's break it down in a way that might make logical sense, but will probably get contradicted by a SAC update, if they release one. Let's use the dividing line of any damage dice directly from the attack are affected.
The Weapon's Damage Dice. Obviously included in GWF and Savage Attacker.
Flaming Weapon Property. Included in GWF. Would Savage Attacker reroll this since it is a property of the weapon?
True Strike's extra damage included in GWF as True Strike would trigger the attack. Savage Attacker would not.
Divine Smite. This is a Bonus Action spell cast after hitting the target of the weapon attack, so it is resolved separately and GWF and Savage Attacker do not apply.
Hex. This an ongoing curse on the target that causes them to take damage when hit. Again, the hit resolves and triggers this separate effect. GWF and Savage Attacker do not apply.
My main question is: if you double Divine Smite or Hex dice for a critical hit in cases 4 and 5, why not include them in Great Weapon Fighting?
I mean, we have the wording "damage for an attack" in Great Weapon Fighting: "When you roll damage for an attack you make with a Melee weapon [...] "
And a similar wording in Critical Hits: "A Critical Hit lets you roll extra dice for the attack’s damage against the target [...]"
GWF should then include the weapon's damage and extra damage from Hunter's Mark, Hex, Sneak Attack, Smite spells or True Strike (at higher levels).
Unless "when you roll damage for an attack you make with a Melee weapon that you are holding..." should be interpreted as "when you roll damage from the Melee weapon that you are holding..." as the SAC is trying to explain.
True Strike: Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).
Cantrip Upgrade. Whether you deal Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type, the attack deals extra Radiant damage when you reach levels 5 (1d6), 11 (2d6), and 17 (3d6).
Does that mean that I can also reroll the bonus damage? (since this damage comes from the same attack roll)
How about the Cleric's Divine Strike?
Divine Strike. Once on each of your turns when you hit a creature with an attack roll using a weapon, you can cause the target to take an extra 1d8 Necrotic or Radiant damage (your choice).
Thanks in advance :)
Also I guess my question also applies to the Great Weapon Fighting style, since it also involves altering weapon damage...
Sage Advice (see here) says Savage Attacker only applies to the weapon's actual damage die, not to any additional damage effects that are tacked onto it.
pronouns: he/she/they
Oh I'm gonna keep that link handy, thanks :)
Great Weapon Fighting just says a 1 or 2 die on the damage roll, it is not specific too the weapon's damage die unlike Savage Attacker which is. As per your own post
Whereas Great Weapon Fighting says:
Nothing here specifies that it is limited only to the weapon's damage die.
WotC has ruled that it's indeed limited to the weapon's damage die here.
Mmmm interesting, the literal only thing that could save GWF is out the window then. It's literally a lame duck pick.
I disagree. Most damage rerolls, like Savage Attacker, work only once per turn.
GWF works on every single damage roll. So it's really good for a Fighter with your extra attacks and action surge.
While GWF isn't limited like that, it's overall impact is still very low on a per attack basis, at least outside of 2d6 weapons, which means it really only works with greatsword or maul; And I still think blindfighting or defense would be better picks there. Perhaps for a Champion Fighter, since you can pick up Great Weapon Master and get a decent chance to critical hit every round and then get a higher rate of getting the additional bonus action attack too...
To me, both Savage Attacker and GWF are both vastly underwhelming, Savage Attacker is basically a "do not take this" and GWF works with only a very very limited number of builds, it's far too limited in viability. If Barbarian had fighting styles, then I could see where GWF would be good but as Barbarian does not have access to it, it works only really on very specific fighter builds and remains the not optimum choice.
This is strange. In other related posts, people generally agree you should be able to reroll the extra damage from True Strike, Divine Favor or Smites for Great Weapon Fighting:
When make one attack with the weapon via True Strike and hit, Savage Attacker should let you roll the weapon’s damage dice twice and use either roll against the target.
Unless you have a feature such as war magic, then you aren't making the attack as part of the attack action.
Where did that come from? The description of Savage Attacker in both the 2014 and 2024 Player's Handbook doesn't have that bit about the Attack action in there, as far as I can see.
See here (2014) and here (2024).
pronouns: he/she/they
I think it's from Player’s Handbook Playtest 1: Character Origins: Character Origins - Unearthed Arcana
Sorry, I found it online because I didn't have my copy of the player's handbook with me. My bad.
Pure RAW, the way GWF is worded means all damage dice that result from "an attack you make with a Melee weapon that you are holding with two hands" would be affected
By contrast, Savage Attacker specifies the weapon's damage dice, not the attack's
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah, it's how I see it too. The strange thing here is the SAC entry :-?
Savage Attacker is also pretty terrible, so saying it's better than savage attacker isn't saying much. GWF is, best case, half as good as dueling style (dueling style is +2 damage per hit, GWF with a greatsword or maul is +1).
Hmm. What's stranger still is that they have the 2014 wording, decided that it was confusing and needed a SAC clarification, and then effectively left the wording unchanged in 2024. Arguably, the 2024 wording is loser in a way that favors affecting all dice.
However, let's break it down in a way that might make logical sense, but will probably get contradicted by a SAC update, if they release one. Let's use the dividing line of any damage dice directly from the attack are affected.
Does this look right?
How to add Tooltips.
Good analysis :)
My main question is: if you double Divine Smite or Hex dice for a critical hit in cases 4 and 5, why not include them in Great Weapon Fighting?
I mean, we have the wording "damage for an attack" in Great Weapon Fighting: "When you roll damage for an attack you make with a Melee weapon [...] "
And a similar wording in Critical Hits: "A Critical Hit lets you roll extra dice for the attack’s damage against the target [...]"
GWF should then include the weapon's damage and extra damage from Hunter's Mark, Hex, Sneak Attack, Smite spells or True Strike (at higher levels).
Unless "when you roll damage for an attack you make with a Melee weapon that you are holding..." should be interpreted as "when you roll damage from the Melee weapon that you are holding..." as the SAC is trying to explain.