Can i ask for your help to understand how it is possible to dual wiel an use spell scrolls ? Here is the context : - i'm playing a rogue thief (lvl 3) and i want to use fast hands to use a spell scroll using a bonus action. I took the magic initiate feat as human extra feat, and i have booming blade as a cantrip. Even if i dont have a casting spell feature, my DM allow me to create spell scroll that appears in the builder under the spell section. That also why i'm planing to get fae touch feat at level 4, to get command and misty step spells.
Now comming back to the main topic : If i'm dual wielding (short sword + scimitar) i'm able to use the scimitar attack during the main attack, thanks to nick property, and i still have my bonus action. My DM considers that you have only one free action to interact with an object. So if i'm dual wielding, i can not take a free action to sheathe my scimitar, and an other free action to get my spell scroll in hand.
So question is : do i need the spell scroll in hand to cast it ? what if the spell scroll is attached to my belt in a specific container like a (ready for battle container).
I cant find any rules that state that you need to have a spellscroll in hand to be able to cast it.
Even if i dont have a casting spell feature, my DM allow me to create spell scroll that appears in the builder under the spell section.
Minor note: having Magic Initiate usually counts as being a spellcaster.
Now comming back to the main topic : If i'm dual wielding (short sword + scimitar) i'm able to use the scimitar attack during the main attack, thanks to nick property, and i still have my bonus action. My DM considers that you have only one free action to interact with an object. So if i'm dual wielding, i can not take a free action to sheathe my scimitar, and an other free action to get my spell scroll in hand.
Start with weapons in hand.
attack with shortsword, stow it with interaction that comes with an attack.
Nick attack with scimitar, stow it with interaction that comes with an attack.
free interaction: take out scroll.
bonus action to cast from scroll.
you won't quite be able to repeat the whome sequence next turn with another scroll, because you interactions would get used re-drawing your weapons.
There are other ways to juggle this, and it's easier (like, can repeat it each turn) if your DM decides you jut need one hand to open and read a scroll.
attack with shortsword, stow it with interaction that comes with an attack.
Nick attack with scimitar, stow it with interaction that comes with an attack.
This my DM doesnt allow : for him you have only one free action per round. And he considers that interacting with a weapon as part of the attack consumes your free action to interact with an item ! That's why i'm trying to find a solution where i dont need to interact with the scroll to cast it.
That said, if i'm not going to use dual wield, and i choose only one rapier and always have a free hand, he allow me to cast the spell from the spell scroll using my free hand to interact with the scroll.
But as a rogue, the value to dual wield is ... outstanding, so i'm trying to find a legal way for dual wield while being able to use fast hand + spell scrolls ;)
PS : all my apologies for my poor english ;) i'm french, and frenches are not really good at speaking an other language ;)
This my DM doesnt allow : for him you have only one free action per round. And he considers that interacting with a weapon as part of the attack consumes your free action to interact with an item ! That's why i'm trying to find a solution where i dont need to interact with the scroll to cast it.
If that's the case, you're in homebrew territory, so really only your DM can answer this.
Without the Dual Wielder feat to Quick Draw, or the abbility to draw as part of attack with Thrown weapons, in your situation i would consider using Dagger instead of Scimitar to be able to do this in 3 rounds.
Time-Limited Object Interactions When time is short, such as in combat, interactions with objects are limited: one free interaction per turn. That interaction must occur during a creature’s movement or action. Any additional interactions require the Utilize action, as explained in “Combat” later in this chapter.
and he thinks that this rule has an impact on
Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.
- one free action that occures during an action - attack action (which is an action) alows to equip or unequip as part of this action
So the logical of my DM is the first rule limit you to one free action, the second rule allow you to equipe as part of the action, so equiping as part of the action consumes the free action allowed by the first rule.
Could you tell me if this is how we should understand the item interaction ?
Could you tell me if this is how we should undersand the item interaction ?
"You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action." is meant to add to the otherwise one free interaction per turn.
You can show your DM this Combat & Damage Example of play in the Player's Handbook on page 30 to demonstrate that the Free Item Interaction may be in addition to how some action or weapon let you interact with them;
Russell: I swing at the next skeleton with 11 to hit.
Like others have said, stowing weapons is part of the attack action. So after you make your nick attack, you can stow away the weapon, hence freeing your hand. Then use your “free utilization” to use the scroll, since allowing the use of one hand during your bonus action. “Or dropping the weapon works too with, stowing “ But in the end of the day it’s your DMs or table vote (but this is RAW and RAI for weapons.
Why would the author bother to go out of his way to explicitly mention that you can draw a weapon when you make an attack during your Attack action if you can already do this at any time during your turn ("during a creature's movement or action") with your one free object interaction? If it was like your DM is saying, then there would be no reason to even write the Attack action rule at all.
Action- Attack and draw scimitar for attack and nick attack.
rest of turns, Cast Booming Blade, attack with short sword and BA disengage so Booming blade kicks in if they chase you.
At this level there is no point in casting booming blade unless you can force the target to move.
I'm not sure you can BA a spell scroll though since it takes the normal casting time of the spell to use one.
You can BA spell scroll with the thief subclass of the rogue. The DM of the OP is ignoring the equipping and unequipping weapons part of the attack action and that's the big problem OP has here.
This my DM doesnt allow : for him you have only one free action per round. And he considers that interacting with a weapon as part of the attack consumes your free action to interact with an item ! That's why i'm trying to find a solution where i dont need to interact with the scroll to cast it.
Then you cannot cast spells from scrolls while dual wielding. Scrolls must be held in your hand, unrolled and read from in order to cast the spell they contain. That is the trade off, for an abundant supply of spells despite limited spellslots that your DM wants to maintain from 2014 rules.
Hello dnd community.
Can i ask for your help to understand how it is possible to dual wiel an use spell scrolls ?
Here is the context :
- i'm playing a rogue thief (lvl 3) and i want to use fast hands to use a spell scroll using a bonus action. I took the magic initiate feat as human extra feat, and i have booming blade as a cantrip. Even if i dont have a casting spell feature, my DM allow me to create spell scroll that appears in the builder under the spell section. That also why i'm planing to get fae touch feat at level 4, to get command and misty step spells.
Now comming back to the main topic : If i'm dual wielding (short sword + scimitar) i'm able to use the scimitar attack during the main attack, thanks to nick property, and i still have my bonus action. My DM considers that you have only one free action to interact with an object.
So if i'm dual wielding, i can not take a free action to sheathe my scimitar, and an other free action to get my spell scroll in hand.
So question is : do i need the spell scroll in hand to cast it ? what if the spell scroll is attached to my belt in a specific container like a (ready for battle container).
I cant find any rules that state that you need to have a spellscroll in hand to be able to cast it.
Could you please help me ?
Minor note: having Magic Initiate usually counts as being a spellcaster.
There are other ways to juggle this, and it's easier (like, can repeat it each turn) if your DM decides you jut need one hand to open and read a scroll.
They have Booming Blade as a cantrip already, so I presume the scroll is for some other spell(?).
That said, I don't think this scenario can involve Booming Blade at all, since Nick won't be compatible with the Magic action.
Thank you for your reply :
This my DM doesnt allow : for him you have only one free action per round.
And he considers that interacting with a weapon as part of the attack consumes your free action to interact with an item !
That's why i'm trying to find a solution where i dont need to interact with the scroll to cast it.
That said, if i'm not going to use dual wield, and i choose only one rapier and always have a free hand, he allow me to cast the spell from the spell scroll using my free hand to interact with the scroll.
But as a rogue, the value to dual wield is ... outstanding, so i'm trying to find a legal way for dual wield while being able to use fast hand + spell scrolls ;)
PS : all my apologies for my poor english ;) i'm french, and frenches are not really good at speaking an other language ;)
If that's the case, you're in homebrew territory, so really only your DM can answer this.
You must be able to read a Spell Scroll to cast its spell. If your DM houserule out Equipping and Unequipping Weapons then you are severly impacted;
Without the Dual Wielder feat to Quick Draw, or the abbility to draw as part of attack with Thrown weapons, in your situation i would consider using Dagger instead of Scimitar to be able to do this in 3 rounds.
Thank you @Plaguescarred and @Kenclary
in fact my DM took this rule from the PHB : Interacting with item
Time-Limited Object Interactions When time is short, such as in combat, interactions with objects are limited: one free interaction per turn. That interaction must occur during a creature’s movement or action. Any additional interactions require the Utilize action, as explained in “Combat” later in this chapter.
and he thinks that this rule has an impact on
Equipping and Unequipping Weapons. You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action. You do so either before or after the attack. If you equip a weapon before an attack, you don’t need to use it for that attack. Equipping a weapon includes drawing it from a sheath or picking it up. Unequipping a weapon includes sheathing, stowing, or dropping it.
- one free action that occures during an action
- attack action (which is an action) alows to equip or unequip as part of this action
So the logical of my DM is the first rule limit you to one free action, the second rule allow you to equipe as part of the action, so equiping as part of the action consumes the free action allowed by the first rule.
Could you tell me if this is how we should understand the item interaction ?
"You can either equip or unequip one weapon when you make an attack as part of this action." is meant to add to the otherwise one free interaction per turn.
You can show your DM this Combat & Damage Example of play in the Player's Handbook on page 30 to demonstrate that the Free Item Interaction may be in addition to how some action or weapon let you interact with them;
From my understanding of the rules, here's how you can interact with objects:
Like others have said, stowing weapons is part of the attack action. So after you make your nick attack, you can stow away the weapon, hence freeing your hand. Then use your “free utilization” to use the scroll, since allowing the use of one hand during your bonus action. “Or dropping the weapon works too with, stowing “ But in the end of the day it’s your DMs or table vote (but this is RAW and RAI for weapons.
Think of it like this.
Why would the author bother to go out of his way to explicitly mention that you can draw a weapon when you make an attack during your Attack action if you can already do this at any time during your turn ("during a creature's movement or action") with your one free object interaction? If it was like your DM is saying, then there would be no reason to even write the Attack action rule at all.
start with scroll and sword in hand.
BA cast and attack as part of casting,
Action- Attack and draw scimitar for attack and nick attack.
rest of turns, Cast Booming Blade, attack with short sword and BA disengage so Booming blade kicks in if they chase you.
At this level there is no point in casting booming blade unless you can force the target to move.
I'm not sure you can BA a spell scroll though since it takes the normal casting time of the spell to use one.
You can BA spell scroll with the thief subclass of the rogue. The DM of the OP is ignoring the equipping and unequipping weapons part of the attack action and that's the big problem OP has here.
Then you cannot cast spells from scrolls while dual wielding. Scrolls must be held in your hand, unrolled and read from in order to cast the spell they contain. That is the trade off, for an abundant supply of spells despite limited spellslots that your DM wants to maintain from 2014 rules.