Can anyone help me figure out why there is a vast cost discrepancy between mount costs?
A Riding Horse costs 75 gp. CR 1/4, 2 HD. No problem An Elephant costs 200 gp. CR 4, 8 HD. Bit exotic, but okay. Also, it's innate trampling charge ability seems to be miscalculated (it's marked at DC 12).
But a Warhorse? 400 gp, CR 1/2, 3 HD. A trampling charge that is based on it's STR modifier (DC 14). (Granted Legacy content)
Okay, why is the Warhorse so expensive, and yet has no notes that indicate battle-readiness? What is it listed for under equipment? Carry stuff and pulling wagons. ...okay. And if it has a STR-based trampling charge, why does the Elephant not have a similar feature (which would make it DC 16) (fixed in 2024 rules)
I can't for the life of me understand how a Warhorse is more expensive than an Elephant in any mechanical capacity. There is nothing I can find (unless I missed it) that suggests that barding or armor is/isn't applicable to either creature (costly, but understandable). And the scaling from a Riding Horse is... ridiculous for what appears to be so little in return for the cost from a mechanical point of view, since any additional features appear to be non-existant. Even the 2024 rules don't explain this, and I'm banging my head against a desk trying to comprehend this in any way that makes sense.
I guess a warhorse can carry more, which is pretty important if you’re trying to wear heavy armor and ride it in a fight.
But otherwise, in previous editions, you needed a warhorse to ride it in combat. A riding horse needed more checks, or you just plain couldn’t use it in a fight. But generally there used to be much more to mounted combat — lots of handle animal checks and such which have all gone away. Elephants, too, would have required special training to be war elephants.
So, it could be, they carried the different costs and different kinds of mounts forward from old editions into ‘14, but got rid of the old restrictions, and then brought it all forward again into ‘24, so we’re left with this distinction between kinds of horses now that’s kind of pointless.
Warhorse matches Riding horse on speed and Draft on carry capacity while being a Large creature. Elephant is far slower and despite being tanky it is also a Huge creature, meaning that it is simply harder to move around a battlefield and it's less able to handle smaller passages and paths.
Also just depends on what is locally available, an Elephant might cost less but if you're in the wrong region they just might not be available for sale in the first place.
I guess a warhorse can carry more, which is pretty important if you’re trying to wear heavy armor and ride it in a fight.
But otherwise, in previous editions, you needed a warhorse to ride it in combat. A riding horse needed more checks, or you just plain couldn’t use it in a fight. But generally there used to be much more to mounted combat — lots of handle animal checks and such which have all gone away. Elephants, too, would have required special training to be war elephants.
So, it could be, they carried the different costs and different kinds of mounts forward from old editions into ‘14, but got rid of the old restrictions, and then brought it all forward again into ‘24, so we’re left with this distinction between kinds of horses now that’s kind of pointless.
That... seems to be the case. Which is a really crappy way to demonstrate that the details weren't paid attention to when they were porting over for 5e. With features like 'Traits', and Action economy having more depth in 5e, you'd think a supposed war-trained animal would be more viable to account for the cost increase.
Warhorse matches Riding horse on speed and Draft on carry capacity while being a Large creature. Elephant is far slower and despite being tanky it is also a Huge creature, meaning that it is simply harder to move around a battlefield and it's less able to handle smaller passages and paths.
Also just depends on what is locally available, an Elephant might cost less but if you're in the wrong region they just might not be available for sale in the first place.
A Draft Horse is only 50 gp though. And most combat encounters take place is open areas, barring dungeons and cities where mounts generally aren't brought into in the first place, so the maneuverability and travel consideration is usually less of an issue unless the DM is very concise on those points. I'm just curious why the discrepancy is so large with very little to suggest it's worth the investment.
Warhorse matches Riding horse on speed and Draft on carry capacity while being a Large creature. Elephant is far slower and despite being tanky it is also a Huge creature, meaning that it is simply harder to move around a battlefield and it's less able to handle smaller passages and paths.
Also just depends on what is locally available, an Elephant might cost less but if you're in the wrong region they just might not be available for sale in the first place.
A Draft Horse is only 50 gp though. And most combat encounters take place is open areas, barring dungeons and cities where mounts generally aren't brought into in the first place, so the maneuverability and travel consideration is usually less of an issue unless the DM is very concise on those points. I'm just curious why the discrepancy is so large with very little to suggest it's worth the investment.
A Draft Horse is way slower than a Warhorse. Warhorse is bred for combat, Riding Horse and Draft Horse aren't, Riding Horse is fast but has carry capacity issues, by the time you've put good barding on a riding horse and an adventurer on top, it's nearing, if not exceeding, it's capacity while the Draft Horse is simply out run by the Warhorse.
I think they probably just gave up on Mounted combat to be honest, it hasn't really become much of a thing for most players, even Paladin that gets "Find Steed" generally only utilise it for travel.
The Warhorse has 60 ft of movement, the elephant only has 40. That's a lot of additional movement for kiting when you factor in that mounts can both move and Dash in addition to the actions their rider takes. On the narrative side of things, also consider that an elephant as a pack animal wouldn't require as much specific breeding and training as a dedicated warhorse.
Could they have stood to go a little more in depth about how mounts are intended to be used? Sure. Would it have mattered to 90%+ of the tables playing the game? No.
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Can anyone help me figure out why there is a vast cost discrepancy between mount costs?
A Riding Horse costs 75 gp. CR 1/4, 2 HD. No problem
An Elephant costs 200 gp. CR 4, 8 HD. Bit exotic, but okay. Also, it's innate trampling charge ability seems to be miscalculated (it's marked at DC 12).
But a Warhorse?
400 gp, CR 1/2, 3 HD. A trampling charge that is based on it's STR modifier (DC 14). (Granted Legacy content)
Okay, why is the Warhorse so expensive, and yet has no notes that indicate battle-readiness? What is it listed for under equipment? Carry stuff and pulling wagons.
...okay.
And if it has a STR-based trampling charge, why does the Elephant not have a similar feature (which would make it DC 16) (fixed in 2024 rules)
I can't for the life of me understand how a Warhorse is more expensive than an Elephant in any mechanical capacity. There is nothing I can find (unless I missed it) that suggests that barding or armor is/isn't applicable to either creature (costly, but understandable). And the scaling from a Riding Horse is... ridiculous for what appears to be so little in return for the cost from a mechanical point of view, since any additional features appear to be non-existant. Even the 2024 rules don't explain this, and I'm banging my head against a desk trying to comprehend this in any way that makes sense.
Any help is appreciated. Thank you in advance.
I guess a warhorse can carry more, which is pretty important if you’re trying to wear heavy armor and ride it in a fight.
But otherwise, in previous editions, you needed a warhorse to ride it in combat. A riding horse needed more checks, or you just plain couldn’t use it in a fight. But generally there used to be much more to mounted combat — lots of handle animal checks and such which have all gone away. Elephants, too, would have required special training to be war elephants.
So, it could be, they carried the different costs and different kinds of mounts forward from old editions into ‘14, but got rid of the old restrictions, and then brought it all forward again into ‘24, so we’re left with this distinction between kinds of horses now that’s kind of pointless.
Warhorse matches Riding horse on speed and Draft on carry capacity while being a Large creature. Elephant is far slower and despite being tanky it is also a Huge creature, meaning that it is simply harder to move around a battlefield and it's less able to handle smaller passages and paths.
Also just depends on what is locally available, an Elephant might cost less but if you're in the wrong region they just might not be available for sale in the first place.
That... seems to be the case. Which is a really crappy way to demonstrate that the details weren't paid attention to when they were porting over for 5e. With features like 'Traits', and Action economy having more depth in 5e, you'd think a supposed war-trained animal would be more viable to account for the cost increase.
A Draft Horse is only 50 gp though. And most combat encounters take place is open areas, barring dungeons and cities where mounts generally aren't brought into in the first place, so the maneuverability and travel consideration is usually less of an issue unless the DM is very concise on those points. I'm just curious why the discrepancy is so large with very little to suggest it's worth the investment.
A Draft Horse is way slower than a Warhorse. Warhorse is bred for combat, Riding Horse and Draft Horse aren't, Riding Horse is fast but has carry capacity issues, by the time you've put good barding on a riding horse and an adventurer on top, it's nearing, if not exceeding, it's capacity while the Draft Horse is simply out run by the Warhorse.
I think they probably just gave up on Mounted combat to be honest, it hasn't really become much of a thing for most players, even Paladin that gets "Find Steed" generally only utilise it for travel.
The Warhorse has 60 ft of movement, the elephant only has 40. That's a lot of additional movement for kiting when you factor in that mounts can both move and Dash in addition to the actions their rider takes. On the narrative side of things, also consider that an elephant as a pack animal wouldn't require as much specific breeding and training as a dedicated warhorse.
Could they have stood to go a little more in depth about how mounts are intended to be used? Sure. Would it have mattered to 90%+ of the tables playing the game? No.