The most obvious point I would start with is that not all Stealth checks are Hide actions. Hide is specifically how to attempt Stealth mid combat. For some out of combat group attempt at Stealth, it’s all down to DM adjudication. Even if it’s not spelled out in the current DMG, there’s no reason you can’t set a DC and call for a group roll.
Group checks are a tool you can use when the party is trying to accomplish something together and the most skilled characters can cover for characters who are less adept at the task. To make a group ability check, everyone in the group makes the ability check. If at least half the group succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise, the group fails.
Group checks aren’t appropriate when one character’s failure would spell disaster for the whole party, such as if the characters are creeping across a castle courtyard while trying not to alert the guards. In that case, one noisy character will draw the guards’ attention, and there’s not much that stealthier characters can do about it, so relying on individual checks makes more sense. Similarly, don’t use a group check when a single successful check is sufficient, as is the case when finding a hidden compartment with a Wisdom (Perception) check.
Consider using group checks in situations such as the following: [...]
Not entirely sure I agree with their assertion that it shouldn't be used for group stealth. Typical party composition is going to have at least one character in heavy armor, and thus typically rolling with disadvantage with only a low DEX mod, which makes it fairly close to certain the guards will be alerted without something like Pass Without Trace and a modest amount of luck. Creating a single point of failure on what's typically 4+ rolls is a very good way to strongly favor the failure, RNG being what it is. Seems better to at least give a reasonable chance rather than practically guarantee it won't work.
I agree with you, really. Indeed, the kind of group check you described is fairly common in our games.
I imagine it's more of a warning to players than a recommendation not to do it, meaning that for large groups, it's probably not the best option to go with.
Not entirely sure I agree with their assertion that it shouldn't be used for group stealth. Typical party composition is going to have at least one character in heavy armor, and thus typically rolling with disadvantage with only a low DEX mod, which makes it fairly close to certain the guards will be alerted without something like Pass Without Trace and a modest amount of luck. Creating a single point of failure on what's typically 4+ rolls is a very good way to strongly favor the failure, RNG being what it is. Seems better to at least give a reasonable chance rather than practically guarantee it won't work.
From a realism standpoint I'd have to agree with them, one person in plate armour is likely to draw attention to them regardless of how well other people hide/stealth.
But being strict in that regard does make pretty much any attempt of a covert approach forever impossible for most parties/characters and considering how the game works and have worked for a long time that is quite a big change (and one that almost never would benefit the adventurers).
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So a Stealth Group Check. How does it work in 2024?
First of all, are Group Checks even a thing in 2024? They were not reprinted in the PHB nor DMG that I found.
If so, how does it work with the new DC 15 Hide requirement?
For example, say a party of 4 rolls with results 20, 6, 18, 6.
Seems reasonable that since half passed DC 15 to Hide, the group succeeds. But then what are the 6 and 6 player's perception DCs?
The most obvious point I would start with is that not all Stealth checks are Hide actions. Hide is specifically how to attempt Stealth mid combat. For some out of combat group attempt at Stealth, it’s all down to DM adjudication. Even if it’s not spelled out in the current DMG, there’s no reason you can’t set a DC and call for a group roll.
The 2024 DMG has this info about it:
Not entirely sure I agree with their assertion that it shouldn't be used for group stealth. Typical party composition is going to have at least one character in heavy armor, and thus typically rolling with disadvantage with only a low DEX mod, which makes it fairly close to certain the guards will be alerted without something like Pass Without Trace and a modest amount of luck. Creating a single point of failure on what's typically 4+ rolls is a very good way to strongly favor the failure, RNG being what it is. Seems better to at least give a reasonable chance rather than practically guarantee it won't work.
I agree with you, really. Indeed, the kind of group check you described is fairly common in our games.
I imagine it's more of a warning to players than a recommendation not to do it, meaning that for large groups, it's probably not the best option to go with.
From a realism standpoint I'd have to agree with them, one person in plate armour is likely to draw attention to them regardless of how well other people hide/stealth.
But being strict in that regard does make pretty much any attempt of a covert approach forever impossible for most parties/characters and considering how the game works and have worked for a long time that is quite a big change (and one that almost never would benefit the adventurers).