We need more social subclasses. The number of combat oriented classes and subclasses in the game is understandable but the social game adds tremendously to the game and having to draw straws to see who has to be the Bard if nobody is interested in its playstyle isn't fun. It is also difficult to reforge combat-oriented classes into something social using social skills alone.
I created a social warlock as follows:
1) Pact of Sublimity: upgrades you in two social skills: if you took Persuasion and Stealth as your Origin Skills and you took this pact, you could upgrade Persausion to expert and become proficient in another social skill, perhaps insight.
2) Congenial: (req's: Pact of Sublimity and 9th level): you gain advantage in one social skill for 1 minute for a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier (Recharge: a long rest)
3) Seneschal: (req's Pact of Sublimity and 15th level): you are advantaged in dealing with hostile creatures (meaning you use your social skills normally and are not disadvantaged as is the standard situation while interacting with hostile creatures)
I didn't create anymore than these three Eldritch Invocations as three was all my build could tolerate but you get the idea and how easy it really was to accomplish. I have no idea if these abilities are balanced or not as it would take a great deal of testing to figure that out and one person making a one-off subclass option isn''t worth all the testing and highlights the need for Wizards of the Coast to become more involved in making classes and subclasses that are socially adept by design.
I personally believe that DnD adventures can be broken down into three pillars of interaction: physical, magical and social. There are crossover and shadings of each of these pillars but it covers the bulk of what happens during adventures and I believe the Social Pillar needs more official support in the way of more social classes and subclasses.
There's more to social interactions than high rolls. A character who always succeeds on their Charisma checks is actually going to make the social pillar less fun. Characters can roleplay even if they don't have high Charisma.
Some players have the gift of gab, some do not. Your skills/rolls/etc. are not going to change that. I know my personality and I can never be a social PC. Therefore as I don't have that personality, I can never role play a social PC.
I can only roll high enough to get my PC to do things in a social setting, and that is not role playing.
I dont remember advocating for someone to always make their charisma checks and yes there should be MORE to social interactions and a social subclass would be just that solution.
Proficiencies and expertise focus on just one thing I said and not the post in its totality. I specifically posted items that are not releated specifically to proficiencies or expertise but for instance reduce the hostility penalty. A subsclass isnt just a collection of skill upgrades and you know that so your response is a bit shocking.
I know my personality and I can never be a social PC. Therefore as I don't have that personality, I can never role play a social PC.
Eh. I would have no idea how to swing a longsword in actual combat against a highly trained enemy.
Doesnt stop me from roleplaying a expert swordsman
Also, to clarify, everything in dnd is roleplay. You roleplay combat. You roleplay exploration you roleplay being a wizard and casting spells.
Nothing about "social interactions" in game should require the player be good at conversations, persuasion, deception, in order for them to roleplay a character who is a smooth talkier.
There are plenty of options in character selection that enable your character to excel in the social game. In fact everything in the OP can be replicated by a charcter (or very close to it.
Pact of Sublimity is also identical to the skill expert feat (without the ASI)
If your character is able to cast Enhance Abilty, Casting it and choosing Charisma gives you the same effect as Congenial for one hour
The Calm Emotions spell makes hostile creatures indifferent to you which is much the same as Seneschal though only works on humanoids, for non humanoids, suggestion is far more powerful, but only works on a single creature and mass suggestion works on multiple creatures.
There are also class features that can be used in any aspect of the game, including the social aspect, an artificers flash of inspiration or a bardic inspiration , a diviner's portent and a star druid's weal are some examples of features that can be used in the social game.
Other options include
The skilled origin feat gives you proficiency in 3 extra skills which you can use for persuasion, intimidation and deception.
Choosing a background which offer proficiency in social skills
Getting proficiency in social skills through your class
Reliable talent (on a character proficient in social skills)
Some players have the gift of gab, some do not. Your skills/rolls/etc. are not going to change that. I know my personality and I can never be a social PC. Therefore as I don't have that personality, I can never role play a social PC.
I can only roll high enough to get my PC to do things in a social setting, and that is not role playing.
I am vehemently opposed to forcing players to role play their social interactions in order for them to be successful. "I try to convince them to deal the ceremony" followed by a roll is sufficient. Players come in all varieties and inly allowing the charismatic ones to succeed in social challenges is terrible, in my opinion. At my table, all you need to know how to do is have an action for your character.
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We need more social subclasses. The number of combat oriented classes and subclasses in the game is understandable but the social game adds tremendously to the game and having to draw straws to see who has to be the Bard if nobody is interested in its playstyle isn't fun. It is also difficult to reforge combat-oriented classes into something social using social skills alone.
I created a social warlock as follows:
1) Pact of Sublimity: upgrades you in two social skills: if you took Persuasion and Stealth as your Origin Skills and you took this pact, you could upgrade Persausion to expert and become proficient in another social skill, perhaps insight.
2) Congenial: (req's: Pact of Sublimity and 9th level): you gain advantage in one social skill for 1 minute for a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier (Recharge: a long rest)
3) Seneschal: (req's Pact of Sublimity and 15th level): you are advantaged in dealing with hostile creatures (meaning you use your social skills normally and are not disadvantaged as is the standard situation while interacting with hostile creatures)
I didn't create anymore than these three Eldritch Invocations as three was all my build could tolerate but you get the idea and how easy it really was to accomplish. I have no idea if these abilities are balanced or not as it would take a great deal of testing to figure that out and one person making a one-off subclass option isn''t worth all the testing and highlights the need for Wizards of the Coast to become more involved in making classes and subclasses that are socially adept by design.
I personally believe that DnD adventures can be broken down into three pillars of interaction: physical, magical and social. There are crossover and shadings of each of these pillars but it covers the bulk of what happens during adventures and I believe the Social Pillar needs more official support in the way of more social classes and subclasses.
Cheers,
Shwhathadra
(shwah thauddra)
There's more to social interactions than high rolls. A character who always succeeds on their Charisma checks is actually going to make the social pillar less fun. Characters can roleplay even if they don't have high Charisma.
Some players have the gift of gab, some do not. Your skills/rolls/etc. are not going to change that. I know my personality and I can never be a social PC. Therefore as I don't have that personality, I can never role play a social PC.
I can only roll high enough to get my PC to do things in a social setting, and that is not role playing.
There are multiple feats available that can be used to add proficiencies or expertise, no need for a subclass.
I dont remember advocating for someone to always make their charisma checks and yes there should be MORE to social interactions and a social subclass would be just that solution.
I dont like the monk it doesnt mean the class should not exist. If social content isnt your thing then dont choose the subclass.
Proficiencies and expertise focus on just one thing I said and not the post in its totality. I specifically posted items that are not releated specifically to proficiencies or expertise but for instance reduce the hostility penalty. A subsclass isnt just a collection of skill upgrades and you know that so your response is a bit shocking.
Eh. I would have no idea how to swing a longsword in actual combat against a highly trained enemy.
Doesnt stop me from roleplaying a expert swordsman
Also, to clarify, everything in dnd is roleplay. You roleplay combat. You roleplay exploration you roleplay being a wizard and casting spells.
Nothing about "social interactions" in game should require the player be good at conversations, persuasion, deception, in order for them to roleplay a character who is a smooth talkier.
There are plenty of options in character selection that enable your character to excel in the social game. In fact everything in the OP can be replicated by a charcter (or very close to it.
There are also class features that can be used in any aspect of the game, including the social aspect, an artificers flash of inspiration or a bardic inspiration , a diviner's portent and a star druid's weal are some examples of features that can be used in the social game.
Other options include
No, though I see you said the Cleric shouldn't.
Anyway, this isn't a rules discussion, this entire thread should be in Homebrew discussion.
I am vehemently opposed to forcing players to role play their social interactions in order for them to be successful. "I try to convince them to deal the ceremony" followed by a roll is sufficient. Players come in all varieties and inly allowing the charismatic ones to succeed in social challenges is terrible, in my opinion. At my table, all you need to know how to do is have an action for your character.