Hi there, I was wondering on the generally accepted ruling about what Wind Wall protects from? The spell text reads:
Arrows, bolts, and other ordinary projectiles launched at targets behind the wall are deflected upward and automatically miss. (Boulders hurled by giants or siege engines, and similar projectiles, are unaffected.)
That said, does this protect from magical effects as well? Enchanted arrows/ammunition? Ranged spell attacks? etc? The way I took the text of the spell, so long as it isn't a siege level projectile the wall would deflect it. But I'd like some insight to get a better understanding of what was intended.
The preceding text mentions objects of small size or less being blocked. So if you launched something bigger than a halfling at someone then the wall wouldn't work. Enchanted objects would not make a difference (so don't bother enchanting halflings)
Gaseous form (and gas we can assume) wouldn't pass. Spell effects aren't mentioned as problematic so lightning fireballs magic missiles (auto hit and force both care not for wind) should be good. There may be a quibble about poison and acid if its an aerosol or liquid but that's a DM call. It would be cool to stop a green dragons breath or a black dragons with a wind wall but because of the disparity in spell level to the damage negated, may not be approved, on the other hand it would encourage an under utilised spell to be picked up by a few more casters! Whichever way your table decides to go, enjoy yourself, but remember , moon druids never sleep.
For me, the spell description of Wind Wall is pretty clear as to what can and can't pass through it. The key word for me is ordinary projectiles. I'd argue that enchanted arrows would be deflected, because they're still arrows. But a spell - such as a Melf's Acid Arrow, Magic Missile, or Fireball - wouldn't.
That said, I'd say that if a Fireball detonated on one side of the wall, characters on the opposite side would be protected from the blast.
I'm considering how it effects fire bolt right now. I'll probably rule that it passes through the wind wall, but the fluff text for that spell really makes it sound like a tiny mote of combustible gas is moving toward the target. In my mind's eye, when that hits a wind wall, it flies straight up.
Yeah I've been wondering if it stops fire bolt too. I was also wonder if it would block explosions like say blocking the radius of a fire ball from extending past it like it does cloud kill. In terms of spell mechanics it probably doesn't because it doesn't mention aoes but it terms of what a wall of wind this powerful would actually do and game balance I think it should.
Clearly stops
Clouds like call lightning
Gases like gold dragon weakening breath or cloud kill
fog like fog cloud
projectiles like magic stone or throwing the beads created by spells like freezing sphere or delayed blast fire ball ( it would not prevent summoning them on the opposite side)
thrown items when small or smaller (e.g less than 10 pounds)
gaseous creatures like air elementals ( It depends if you think the air elemental is made of specific air or can move through it like a wave)
these fall under gasses and projectiles which immediately miss or are kept at bay
Maybe stops/ makes sense to stop but does not explicitly say it does
Liquid aoes like the breath of a black dragon or tashas caustic brew
Fire AOEs like fire ball or red dragon breath (may be too powerful as wall of water only gives resistance )
physical magic projectiles with attack rolls like acid arrow or fire bolt
Catapult spell (when less than 10 pounds)
spells made of air like the dust devil spell or gust of wind
small or smaller creatures and objects effected by levitate ( are they flying? they don't get a fly speed)
These probably fall under small objects and light materials that would fly up in the wall but don't explicitly say they miss or are blocked. Its up to the dm but I tend towards making it more powerful and blocking these because it makes the spell more reliable.
It blocks "ordinary projectiles" - firebolt ain't an ordinary projectile, it will pass through just dandy, by RAW.
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Wind Wall appears to be weight based. it has a strength save and automatically keeps out fogs. Arrows etc are stopped, boulders are not.
For me, the weight seems to be the key. Small things are blown away, but the winds are not strong enough to physically stop larger boulders. Moreover, Magic Missile should not be stopped, and it is an example of magic that has no weight. As such, I would rule that to be stopped by wind wall, the object must have some kind of known weight.
Fireball says 'bright streak', it is no longer a pea. Same for delayed. No way a bright streak can be stopped by wind. To my mind, any 'instant' spell should not bother creating something physical for the fraction of a second it exists before causing damage. As such, I would rule they can not be stopped by Gust of Wind unless some mention of weight is made.
Tasha's Brew specifically says acid emenates, and has a duration. I would let spells like it be stopped, along with anything that enchants or throws a physical object.
So with delayed blast fireball you can choose to hold it as a bead and throw it later. It would block the throw but not the bright streak summon. Same with darkness and freezing sphere, they are instant at a point or summoning an object that's thrown the caster chooses.
It's super unclear to me what an ordinary projectile means. Ordinary could mean non magical but it's not the normal language for non magical. Typically they would say non magical or ranged weapon attack if they meant it to not include fire bolt. Allot of other abilities that mention projectiles do include the language " ranged weapon attack" which excludes fire bolt so wind wall could be the exception that proves the rule or a mistake that doesn't use the same language.
What about a Chromatic Orb? It's magical and certainly not an ordinary object. It is however, propelled by the magic-user. Personally, I would say that a COrb would not be able to pass through a Wind Wall.
Are any of the magical effects in question “Objects”?
the wall stops ordinary objects. A firebolt is not an object, as far as I know, or an ordinary projectile, so they pass right through. The blast from a fireball is not an object or a gas so would pass through, I would think.
went back and looked at spell and here is the relevant part:
The strong wind keeps fog, smoke, and other gases at bay. Small or smaller flying creatures or objects can't pass through the wall. Loose, lightweight materials brought into the wall fly upward. Arrows, bolts, and other ordinary projectiles launched at targets behind the wall are deflected upward and automatically miss. (Boulders hurled by giants or siege engines, and similar projectiles, are unaffected.) Creatures in gaseous form can't pass through it.
Is an amorphous substance an object? I'd say it is if it's a mote. If it's fire, it's probably gas, but even if it's something like a piece of combusting magnesium transitioning from solid to plasma, that would still be an object, gas, or plasma and either would be effected by the wind described in wind wall
Two years later and I'm back to this. I'm very surprised to see myself in these comments. This time, I'm wondering about the interaction between wind wall and mage hand.
The hand not a gas, it's not a projectile. It's not a creature, not an object. It's a persistent effect created by a spell. So, it should be able to pass through the wind wall, I would think. Could it then also carry an object with it, abd how would that work? If a small creature can't force its way through the winds, the force on the object would be greater than ten pounds.
I am definitely overthinking it, but am I right that RAW, mage hand can carry an object less than 10lbs through a wind wall, or am I missing something?
Yes, Mage Hand is purely magical and not propelled by "ordinary" forces, so it should def work.
Chromatic Orb, I would say "No" to, since the caster using using basic muscular strength to throw the orb.
Magic Stone, "no", for same reason as Chromatic Orb.
I think the big grey areas are spells like Acid Splash and Firebolt because "you hurl" is in both spell descriptions. That makes it sound like it is actually the spellcaster using their muscle to throw something instead of the magic itself.
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Hi there, I was wondering on the generally accepted ruling about what Wind Wall protects from? The spell text reads:
Arrows, bolts, and other ordinary projectiles launched at targets behind the wall are deflected upward and automatically miss. (Boulders hurled by giants or siege engines, and similar projectiles, are unaffected.)
That said, does this protect from magical effects as well? Enchanted arrows/ammunition? Ranged spell attacks? etc? The way I took the text of the spell, so long as it isn't a siege level projectile the wall would deflect it. But I'd like some insight to get a better understanding of what was intended.
The preceding text mentions objects of small size or less being blocked. So if you launched something bigger than a halfling at someone then the wall wouldn't work. Enchanted objects would not make a difference (so don't bother enchanting halflings)
Gaseous form (and gas we can assume) wouldn't pass. Spell effects aren't mentioned as problematic so lightning fireballs magic missiles (auto hit and force both care not for wind) should be good. There may be a quibble about poison and acid if its an aerosol or liquid but that's a DM call. It would be cool to stop a green dragons breath or a black dragons with a wind wall but because of the disparity in spell level to the damage negated, may not be approved, on the other hand it would encourage an under utilised spell to be picked up by a few more casters! Whichever way your table decides to go, enjoy yourself, but remember , moon druids never sleep.
For me, the spell description of Wind Wall is pretty clear as to what can and can't pass through it. The key word for me is ordinary projectiles. I'd argue that enchanted arrows would be deflected, because they're still arrows. But a spell - such as a Melf's Acid Arrow, Magic Missile, or Fireball - wouldn't.
That said, I'd say that if a Fireball detonated on one side of the wall, characters on the opposite side would be protected from the blast.
What about things like Firebolt or Eldritch Blast?
What do you think? =)
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I'm considering how it effects fire bolt right now. I'll probably rule that it passes through the wind wall, but the fluff text for that spell really makes it sound like a tiny mote of combustible gas is moving toward the target. In my mind's eye, when that hits a wind wall, it flies straight up.
Yeah I've been wondering if it stops fire bolt too. I was also wonder if it would block explosions like say blocking the radius of a fire ball from extending past it like it does cloud kill. In terms of spell mechanics it probably doesn't because it doesn't mention aoes but it terms of what a wall of wind this powerful would actually do and game balance I think it should.
Clearly stops
these fall under gasses and projectiles which immediately miss or are kept at bay
Maybe stops/ makes sense to stop but does not explicitly say it does
These probably fall under small objects and light materials that would fly up in the wall but don't explicitly say they miss or are blocked. Its up to the dm but I tend towards making it more powerful and blocking these because it makes the spell more reliable.
Y'all be way overthinkin' this.
It blocks "ordinary projectiles" - firebolt ain't an ordinary projectile, it will pass through just dandy, by RAW.
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Wind Wall appears to be weight based. it has a strength save and automatically keeps out fogs. Arrows etc are stopped, boulders are not.
For me, the weight seems to be the key. Small things are blown away, but the winds are not strong enough to physically stop larger boulders. Moreover, Magic Missile should not be stopped, and it is an example of magic that has no weight. As such, I would rule that to be stopped by wind wall, the object must have some kind of known weight.
Fireball says 'bright streak', it is no longer a pea. Same for delayed. No way a bright streak can be stopped by wind. To my mind, any 'instant' spell should not bother creating something physical for the fraction of a second it exists before causing damage. As such, I would rule they can not be stopped by Gust of Wind unless some mention of weight is made.
Tasha's Brew specifically says acid emenates, and has a duration. I would let spells like it be stopped, along with anything that enchants or throws a physical object.
It seems odd that the damage is caused only when it is cast and not the followup rounds.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
So with delayed blast fireball you can choose to hold it as a bead and throw it later. It would block the throw but not the bright streak summon. Same with darkness and freezing sphere, they are instant at a point or summoning an object that's thrown the caster chooses.
It's super unclear to me what an ordinary projectile means. Ordinary could mean non magical but it's not the normal language for non magical. Typically they would say non magical or ranged weapon attack if they meant it to not include fire bolt. Allot of other abilities that mention projectiles do include the language " ranged weapon attack" which excludes fire bolt so wind wall could be the exception that proves the rule or a mistake that doesn't use the same language.
What about a Chromatic Orb? It's magical and certainly not an ordinary object. It is however, propelled by the magic-user. Personally, I would say that a COrb would not be able to pass through a Wind Wall.
Are any of the magical effects in question “Objects”?
the wall stops ordinary objects. A firebolt is not an object, as far as I know, or an ordinary projectile, so they pass right through. The blast from a fireball is not an object or a gas so would pass through, I would think.
went back and looked at spell and here is the relevant part:
The strong wind keeps fog, smoke, and other gases at bay. Small or smaller flying creatures or objects can't pass through the wall. Loose, lightweight materials brought into the wall fly upward. Arrows, bolts, and other ordinary projectiles launched at targets behind the wall are deflected upward and automatically miss. (Boulders hurled by giants or siege engines, and similar projectiles, are unaffected.) Creatures in gaseous form can't pass through it.
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The description of fire bolt very much does state that you throw an object (or material, as a powder) as part of its casting.
Fire Bolt:
"You hurl a mote of fire at a creature or object within range."
mote (n) a tiny piece of a substance
https://languages.oup.com/google-dictionary-en/
(Emphasis, mine)
Is an amorphous substance an object? I'd say it is if it's a mote. If it's fire, it's probably gas, but even if it's something like a piece of combusting magnesium transitioning from solid to plasma, that would still be an object, gas, or plasma and either would be effected by the wind described in wind wall
My question would be: what propels the "mote" described in Fire Bolt? Is it the caster's muscular strength or is it the power of the magic itself?
Power of the magic itself.
Nah, it's microwaves... in the weave?
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Two years later and I'm back to this. I'm very surprised to see myself in these comments. This time, I'm wondering about the interaction between wind wall and mage hand.
The hand not a gas, it's not a projectile. It's not a creature, not an object. It's a persistent effect created by a spell. So, it should be able to pass through the wind wall, I would think. Could it then also carry an object with it, abd how would that work? If a small creature can't force its way through the winds, the force on the object would be greater than ten pounds.
I am definitely overthinking it, but am I right that RAW, mage hand can carry an object less than 10lbs through a wind wall, or am I missing something?
Yes, Mage Hand is purely magical and not propelled by "ordinary" forces, so it should def work.
Chromatic Orb, I would say "No" to, since the caster using using basic muscular strength to throw the orb.
Magic Stone, "no", for same reason as Chromatic Orb.
I think the big grey areas are spells like Acid Splash and Firebolt because "you hurl" is in both spell descriptions. That makes it sound like it is actually the spellcaster using their muscle to throw something instead of the magic itself.