Can this be used out of combat? It doesn't say it's combat only, but it let's you use a bonus action to get advantage for acrobatics or athletics for that same turn. Outside of combat, you don't use bonus actions or turns. However, I've used my monk Shadow Step out of combat and that says you use a bonus action to teleport.
If you did use it outside of combat, would it just give you advantage on your next check?
Basically, every ability, spell, class feature can be used outside combat. the "combat" it is just turn-based window for the story-telling, not a particular restriction on what you can or can't do.
Basically, every ability, spell, class feature can be used outside combat. the "combat" it is just turn-based window for the story-telling, not a particular restriction on what you can or can't do.
A caveat, I have seen Crawford state that the ready action specifically cannot be taken outside of combat. With the reasoning being that its listed under the "actions in combat" section. Which feels a bit unintuitive as that also includes casting a spell, and help action (for skills)
Basically, every ability, spell, class feature can be used outside combat. the "combat" it is just turn-based window for the story-telling, not a particular restriction on what you can or can't do.
A caveat, I have seen Crawford state that the ready action specifically cannot be taken outside of combat. With the reasoning being that its listed under the "actions in combat" section. Which feels a bit unintuitive as that also includes casting a spell, and help action (for skills)
Cannot find the sage advice about this. But I believe you cannot ready any action outside combat because you can only ready an action for a round (6 seconds). Outside combat, since the time is faster than a single round, you would lose that action.
Basically, every ability, spell, class feature can be used outside combat. the "combat" it is just turn-based window for the story-telling, not a particular restriction on what you can or can't do.
A caveat, I have seen Crawford state that the ready action specifically cannot be taken outside of combat. With the reasoning being that its listed under the "actions in combat" section. Which feels a bit unintuitive as that also includes casting a spell, and help action (for skills)
Cannot find the sage advice about this. But I believe you cannot ready any action outside combat because you can only ready an action for a round (6 seconds). Outside combat, since the time is faster than a single round, you would lose that action.
Right, but similarly the benefits of help and fancy footwork only last 6s.
Also you could say, you are continuously readying your action (as long as it wasn't a spell using resources), and as long as you weren't surprised by the combat and your trigger occurred, you would use your reaction. And while it makes sense that some of the actions are only available in combat, if the only guidance is "actions listed on p192-193" then you can't cast spells or interact with objects or search outside of combat. There's not anything that separates ready and dodge from cast a spell or use an object. (I am dodging from now on, forever, take that dex save traps!)
The thing that separates Dodge and Ready from the others actions that you can take in combat is the INITIATIVE rule and the fact that they say in the descrption "until your next turn".
You can technically always take the ready Attack action or the Dodge action, but the timing in which you are taking Ready or Dodge is dictated when the DM calls for the Initiative rolls.
The thing that separates Dodge and Ready from the others actions that you can take in combat is the INITIATIVE rule and the fact that they say in the descrption "until your next turn".
You can technically always take the ready Attack action or the Dodge action, but the timing in which you are taking Ready or Dodge is dictated when the DM calls for the Initiative rolls.
Elegant Maneuver, blade ward, true strike, Help all state "until your next turn" as well, if that is the cutoff point, those spells and abilities are unavailable outside of combat.
To make it simple: depends on the task you are going to do.
If the intent is to harm a foe, you roll initiative and follow the combat rules.
If, as an example, you want to break a door, you don't need initiative, and you can attack, dodge, cast spell because the restriction of those action to be turn-based does not matter anymore. It is like you are resolve a turn-based combat, but the door is always at initiative 0 and on its turn does nothing. So basically you can do whatever you want.
In case of traps or similar harmful events, you do not get to take an action (dodge, spells or other), because it is like the trap always comes first in the initiative roll.
To make it simple: depends on the task you are going to do.
If the intent is to harm a foe, you roll initiative and follow the combat rules.
If, as an example, you want to break a door, you don't need initiative, and you can attack, dodge, cast spell because the restriction of those action to be turn-based does not matter anymore. It is like you are resolve a turn-based combat, but the door is always at initiative 0 and on its turn does nothing. So basically you can do whatever you want.
In case of traps or similar harmful events, you do not get to take an action (dodge, spells or other), because it is like the trap always comes first in the initiative roll.
But, mechanically there's no reason to say that you can't be at a door with a crossbow and say: I am going to stare at the doorway and will shoot the first creature that comes through. Or to use a RL example: you are a trained sniper. You know that a target is going to come out of a building (assuming using a specific entrance). The second that target becomes available, you shoot.
Either example is ostensibly a readied action that is occurring outside of combat. Now, that's not to say combat won't be initiated once that shot is fired, but for the purpose of the firing, you aren't already in combat, which is important for a number of abilities/features (for example: you couldn't use the Extra Attack feature or use a bonus action)
The DM might make you make a concentration check after x amount of time to make sure you are maintaining concentration, but combat hasn't actually started yet in the same way that combat doesn't start just because you see a patrol and use an action to hide.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
sloporion what you said is true. Indeed taking the ready action before combat is quite useless.
If you want to take the first shot, you have to use the "surprise" (Stealth check...) rule. This way you have an entire round in which you can do all you want: attack, extra attack, spells....
If you are not surprising anybody (no Stealth check), the initiative determines who shoot first. (I know Han Solo shot first, but......)
I think the disconnect is, It is completely possible for a character to say, cast guidance on themselves every minute, so that if combat were to happen, they have a d4 bonus (if they wish). Similarly, they could cast blade ward every 6 seconds so that they have it available if they were to be attacked. (granted eventually casting a spell so often would probably be somewhat taxing). Why would a character beside them be unable to do try to dodge every 6s.
I understand entirely that allowing readied actions outside of combat basically short circuits initiative and from a gameplay and balance standpoint it makes sense to disallow it. However, from a RAW standpoint there's nothing different between casting a spell on yourself everytime it fades and readying an action every 30 feet. And the explanation that "Its listed under actions in combat" is insufficient as the other actions on the same page are obviously available outside of combat.
I still don't see how my above examples are any different mechanically from the readied action in combat.
How about this: the PCs are in a tavern relaxing when a man and his friend walk up to the bar the and the man begins yelling at the bartender. Their friends are gathered at a table in the corner laughing it up. The man and his friend have to walk by the PCs' table on his way back to his own. One of the PCs decides to trip the man as he's walking back.
Now, this isn't a combat scenario, yet (mind you, it likely will be after the trip attempt). Are you saying that rather than readying an action to trip, that player has to roll initiative and make the trip attack on his turn?
What happens if his friend has the Alert feat and rolls higher in initiative. Are you saying he can just walk over to the PCs' table, and start attacking before the trip even goes off? Because, if there's a surprise round, he isn't surprised. He'll know he's in a combat scenario, because now he can choose to ready an action if he'd like (he couldn't before this, so he'll know something is different). If he was a Protection Fighter/Paladin does he get impose disadvantage on your trip attack?
See, mechanically it doesn't make sense for you to already be in combat, before the combat is actually initiated. It simply makes more sense that the trip happens, gets resolved, and THEN everyone rolls initiative.
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Honestly, I would rule that situation like a surprise (if as DM, I know how the NPCs involved will react). Because, the way I see it, it is more appropriate to let a check decide if you really succeed at having the first attack. In the end, that is what you want to do if you are "readying an action" outside combat. You are trying to get the "surprise".
Now for a dungeon situation, the traditional Stealth check for the surprise is the way to go.
For a "tavern" situation, like the one you described, I am not sure. Probably I'd go for a Stealth check as well, or a Deception check. Depends on how the player describe what they are going to do.
Yeah, there's a similar initiative problem with assassins.
Assassin (sharpshooter) is hidden in the trees 500 feet away from a guard. Assassin says "I want to shoot the target". Both roll initiative, Guard is surprised, but rolls higher on initiative, guard turn happens and does nothing (as he was surprised and sees and knows of no danger). Now the assassin's target is no longer surprised (negating the auto crit bonus), so the assassin says "I don't attack."
How many rounds do you keep the two in combat. RAW the assassin doesn't have to re-roll stealth until an action breaks it. The guard likely isn't going to be actively searching to attempt rolls higher than his passive perception. Do you keep the two locked in initiative forever? Or do you do the same dance again in a few seconds.
I'm guessing everyone has tripped someone at one point in time. You stick your foot out at the last moment and if you succeed (and they don't catch themselves) they fall.
So, I mean in D&D terms, you ready your action for when they come by. You do a trip attack. Since that's not something that's listed in the PHB or DMG (besides for the Battle Master Fighter maneuver) I'd say that's the equivalent of an unarmed attack roll but with no damage. The target has to make a Dexterity saving throw using your attack roll as the DC. If they fail, they fall prone (in whatever direction they are moving).
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Yeah, there's a similar initiative problem with assassins.
Assassin (sharpshooter) is hidden in the trees 500 feet away from a guard. Assassin says "I want to shoot the target". Both roll initiative, Guard is surprised, but rolls higher on initiative, guard turn happens and does nothing (as he was surprised and sees and knows of no danger). Now the assassin's target is no longer surprised (negating the auto crit bonus), so the assassin says "I don't attack."
How many rounds do you keep the two in combat. RAW the assassin doesn't have to re-roll stealth until an action breaks it. The guard likely isn't going to be actively searching to attempt rolls higher than his passive perception. Do you keep the two locked in initiative forever? Or do you do the same dance again in a few seconds.
Yeah, if this game used 3e (or possibly 4e, I can't remember) rules for surprise (where there is a surprise round for everyone involved), this entire discussion would be different. But, like you said, if you roll lower initiative, all of a sudden you can't take an action that's as basic as pulling a trigger before they get to act? That's a broken system if that's what is intended (my guess is that it isn't)
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Can this be used out of combat? It doesn't say it's combat only, but it let's you use a bonus action to get advantage for acrobatics or athletics for that same turn. Outside of combat, you don't use bonus actions or turns. However, I've used my monk Shadow Step out of combat and that says you use a bonus action to teleport.
If you did use it outside of combat, would it just give you advantage on your next check?
Simple solution. Punch a party member (only going to deal like 2 hp+str)and then as a bonus action use it. Problem solved.
Basically, every ability, spell, class feature can be used outside combat. the "combat" it is just turn-based window for the story-telling, not a particular restriction on what you can or can't do.
A caveat, I have seen Crawford state that the ready action specifically cannot be taken outside of combat. With the reasoning being that its listed under the "actions in combat" section. Which feels a bit unintuitive as that also includes casting a spell, and help action (for skills)
I want to say you can do the samething outside of combat it just technically isn't the ready action but would amount to it. The start of initiative would effectively break the ready action so it would be pointless.
The thing that separates Dodge and Ready from the others actions that you can take in combat is the INITIATIVE rule and the fact that they say in the descrption "until your next turn".
You can technically always take the ready Attack action or the Dodge action, but the timing in which you are taking Ready or Dodge is dictated when the DM calls for the Initiative rolls.
Elegant Maneuver, blade ward, true strike, Help all state "until your next turn" as well, if that is the cutoff point, those spells and abilities are unavailable outside of combat.
They shouldn't be. If need be just flick your finger at a party member, enter combat and do it then leave combat. Would be silly to go through all that and not let you just do it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Can this be used out of combat? It doesn't say it's combat only, but it let's you use a bonus action to get advantage for acrobatics or athletics for that same turn. Outside of combat, you don't use bonus actions or turns. However, I've used my monk Shadow Step out of combat and that says you use a bonus action to teleport.
If you did use it outside of combat, would it just give you advantage on your next check?
I don't believe many DMs would disallow you from using it out of combat.
Yes I believe you can.
Basically, every ability, spell, class feature can be used outside combat. the "combat" it is just turn-based window for the story-telling, not a particular restriction on what you can or can't do.
The thing that separates Dodge and Ready from the others actions that you can take in combat is the INITIATIVE rule and the fact that they say in the descrption "until your next turn".
You can technically always take the ready Attack action or the Dodge action, but the timing in which you are taking Ready or Dodge is dictated when the DM calls for the Initiative rolls.
To make it simple: depends on the task you are going to do.
If the intent is to harm a foe, you roll initiative and follow the combat rules.
If, as an example, you want to break a door, you don't need initiative, and you can attack, dodge, cast spell because the restriction of those action to be turn-based does not matter anymore. It is like you are resolve a turn-based combat, but the door is always at initiative 0 and on its turn does nothing. So basically you can do whatever you want.
In case of traps or similar harmful events, you do not get to take an action (dodge, spells or other), because it is like the trap always comes first in the initiative roll.
But, mechanically there's no reason to say that you can't be at a door with a crossbow and say: I am going to stare at the doorway and will shoot the first creature that comes through. Or to use a RL example: you are a trained sniper. You know that a target is going to come out of a building (assuming using a specific entrance). The second that target becomes available, you shoot.
Either example is ostensibly a readied action that is occurring outside of combat. Now, that's not to say combat won't be initiated once that shot is fired, but for the purpose of the firing, you aren't already in combat, which is important for a number of abilities/features (for example: you couldn't use the Extra Attack feature or use a bonus action)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
sloporion what you said is true. Indeed taking the ready action before combat is quite useless.
If you want to take the first shot, you have to use the "surprise" (Stealth check...) rule. This way you have an entire round in which you can do all you want: attack, extra attack, spells....
If you are not surprising anybody (no Stealth check), the initiative determines who shoot first. (I know Han Solo shot first, but......)
I think the disconnect is, It is completely possible for a character to say, cast guidance on themselves every minute, so that if combat were to happen, they have a d4 bonus (if they wish). Similarly, they could cast blade ward every 6 seconds so that they have it available if they were to be attacked. (granted eventually casting a spell so often would probably be somewhat taxing). Why would a character beside them be unable to do try to dodge every 6s.
I understand entirely that allowing readied actions outside of combat basically short circuits initiative and from a gameplay and balance standpoint it makes sense to disallow it. However, from a RAW standpoint there's nothing different between casting a spell on yourself everytime it fades and readying an action every 30 feet. And the explanation that "Its listed under actions in combat" is insufficient as the other actions on the same page are obviously available outside of combat.
I still don't see how my above examples are any different mechanically from the readied action in combat.
How about this: the PCs are in a tavern relaxing when a man and his friend walk up to the bar the and the man begins yelling at the bartender. Their friends are gathered at a table in the corner laughing it up. The man and his friend have to walk by the PCs' table on his way back to his own. One of the PCs decides to trip the man as he's walking back.
Now, this isn't a combat scenario, yet (mind you, it likely will be after the trip attempt). Are you saying that rather than readying an action to trip, that player has to roll initiative and make the trip attack on his turn?
What happens if his friend has the Alert feat and rolls higher in initiative. Are you saying he can just walk over to the PCs' table, and start attacking before the trip even goes off? Because, if there's a surprise round, he isn't surprised. He'll know he's in a combat scenario, because now he can choose to ready an action if he'd like (he couldn't before this, so he'll know something is different). If he was a Protection Fighter/Paladin does he get impose disadvantage on your trip attack?
See, mechanically it doesn't make sense for you to already be in combat, before the combat is actually initiated. It simply makes more sense that the trip happens, gets resolved, and THEN everyone rolls initiative.
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Honestly, I would rule that situation like a surprise (if as DM, I know how the NPCs involved will react). Because, the way I see it, it is more appropriate to let a check decide if you really succeed at having the first attack. In the end, that is what you want to do if you are "readying an action" outside combat. You are trying to get the "surprise".
Now for a dungeon situation, the traditional Stealth check for the surprise is the way to go.
For a "tavern" situation, like the one you described, I am not sure. Probably I'd go for a Stealth check as well, or a Deception check. Depends on how the player describe what they are going to do.
Yeah, there's a similar initiative problem with assassins.
Assassin (sharpshooter) is hidden in the trees 500 feet away from a guard. Assassin says "I want to shoot the target". Both roll initiative, Guard is surprised, but rolls higher on initiative, guard turn happens and does nothing (as he was surprised and sees and knows of no danger). Now the assassin's target is no longer surprised (negating the auto crit bonus), so the assassin says "I don't attack."
How many rounds do you keep the two in combat. RAW the assassin doesn't have to re-roll stealth until an action breaks it. The guard likely isn't going to be actively searching to attempt rolls higher than his passive perception. Do you keep the two locked in initiative forever? Or do you do the same dance again in a few seconds.
I'm guessing everyone has tripped someone at one point in time. You stick your foot out at the last moment and if you succeed (and they don't catch themselves) they fall.
So, I mean in D&D terms, you ready your action for when they come by. You do a trip attack. Since that's not something that's listed in the PHB or DMG (besides for the Battle Master Fighter maneuver) I'd say that's the equivalent of an unarmed attack roll but with no damage. The target has to make a Dexterity saving throw using your attack roll as the DC. If they fail, they fall prone (in whatever direction they are moving).
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.
Yeah, if this game used 3e (or possibly 4e, I can't remember) rules for surprise (where there is a surprise round for everyone involved), this entire discussion would be different. But, like you said, if you roll lower initiative, all of a sudden you can't take an action that's as basic as pulling a trigger before they get to act? That's a broken system if that's what is intended (my guess is that it isn't)
Click Here to Download my Lancer Class w/ Dragoon and Legionnaire Archetypes via DM's Guild - Pay What You Want
Click Here to Download the Mind Flayer: Thoon Hulk converted from 4e via DM's Guild
“It is a better world. A place where we are responsible for our actions, where we can be kind to one another because we want to and because it is the right thing to do instead of being frightened into behaving by the threat of divine punishment.” ― Oramis, Eldest by Christopher Paolini.