My players are crazy paranoid. I mean, checking for traps every 5 ft, all dungeon delvers, sending in animals (from a bag of tricks) with every room. My question is this: can they detect a proximity trigger for a trap that's, say, 50 ft away? They complained that none of them have died yet, so now I have to kill them.
I mean if you want to kill your players...that can always be done....and with them thinking they should have planned better, not the DM is a jerk.
First of all, have the PCs make one check for traps when they first enter a room, and try to handle checking for traps by only letting the person in front check for traps as they are walking forward. I think you don't need to have high ACs, just clever traps. So, have traps that the players can't get around. This means there is a DC for noticing the trap and a DC for disarming the trap. Clever traps require more than just ending the trap. Like a failsafe. Meaning the PCs need something small, with significant weight to place inside the trap to keep a string down, or something more than, you make the check so you can do it. Don't be a complete jerk, come up with interesting ideas for why a PC might need something more.
Traps are really there to scare your players, not to kill them. So what level are your PCs?
Hah, well, that module was specifically designed to kill whole adventuring parties.
I haven't read the most recent version, but if it's anything like the old ones, they shouldn't have to worry too much about dying, it's more a matter of when.
This discussion reminds a bit of the discussion active perception roll vs. passive perception. To avoid the fact that the party makes a perception check every 5 ft (which is a great advantage for the party, all the traps will most likely be found), you can decide that in every room (or corridor, area....) the party is allowed to do only one perception check. This way some traps will escape the party's detection.
I'm a big fan of not letting players roll for traps, it adds more suspense when they don't know that they've rooled particularly high or low for looking for traps (and secret doors) what i do is have all of their passive perceptions written down so there is a chance that they might notice a trap by accident. If they want to look for traps then i roll behind the screen and tell them wether they have spotted anything. If players roll low to look for traps then i find they stay super suspicious anyway even though they find no evidence of traps. One of my payers does complain that he wants to be the one rolling but the rest of the group agrees that it makes it more fun.
I feel like in most groups I have played in this would result in sending a cat down the hall first kind of thing, or moving 5 ft. at a time with a stick to check for traps. Putting something heavy on the ground in front of the players every 5ft. and more things like that to get around the whole trap thing more than if you just ask them to roll a perception check. That way they can feel like you didn't make the trap intentionally too high so they wouldn't notice it.
They're level 11, and we're playing tomb of horrors so they expect to die.
If the tomb of horrors lives up to its name, then I shouldn't have to suggest how to kill them lol. How many players do you have? I really should have asked that as well, because that will influence my advice.
A behir is CR 11 (7,200 xp) and the ochre jelly is CR 2. At 11th level a CR 2 creature is basically a road bump that doesn't matter that much. At 11th level a hard encounter has 2,400 xp per player, so lets assume four players. That is 9,600 expected monster xp for a group of four. The Behir is 2,400 less than that (so probably more of a medium encounter) and an Ochre jelly is a road bump, meaning the PCs are expected to walk all over the Behir. Whats more is that the game assumes six to eight more of those encounters in one day! This means that a Behir is not going to be a challenge for a party especially if the only monster the PCs run into that day is a Behir. Basically the party would need to walk into six different rooms and fight a Behir in each room to reach the expected number of encounters in the day and make the final Behir encounter a real challenge.
Ok, first, read the section on "Group Checks" That is what you should be using.
Second, don't let it bother you. In my Elanon campaign, we have 5 adult players and my son. He is relatively new to D&D and I helped him with suggestions in creating his character, an Elf arcane rogue. He is usually in front with his passive perception of 19. So, there are few traps, secret doors, or ambushes they cannot detect.
Don't confuse "find traps" with disarm traps. Knowing it is there does not mean they have the time, ability, or successful rolls to disarm. see Alarm I have put the trap trigger behind a solid metal door that was virtually impossible to detect or disarm. It collapsed the entrance behind them, and then they had to search the entire dungeon for another way out. Party never complained about the trap, but it did teach them they are not perfect.
Some secret doors should not be opened. There is one door in one of my dungeons with enough water and a water elemental behind to flood the entire level to about 1.78 feet (yup, did the math; I am a geek...)
Ambush is not necessary, but when it is needed, Darkvision is only 60', bow range is farther, and it is not to hard to find something with darkvision 120'.
Third, don't forget that active searching takes time and focus. Easier to constantly ambush with "wandering" monsters from behind (perception at Disadvantage, Passive perception -5). In tomb of Horrors, you can simply add an evil adventuring party also be trying to get the loot and decide to sneak in behind...
Let the party play the way they want with the characters they want. Let them take pride in what they can do. Then design in ways that can still challenge them.
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DM -- Elanon -- Homebrew world
Gronn -- Tiefling Warlock -- Amarath
Slim -- Halfling Cleric -- CoS (future Lord of Waterdeep 😁)
Hi all, new DM here.
My players are crazy paranoid. I mean, checking for traps every 5 ft, all dungeon delvers, sending in animals (from a bag of tricks) with every room. My question is this: can they detect a proximity trigger for a trap that's, say, 50 ft away? They complained that none of them have died yet, so now I have to kill them.
Thanks in advance!
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D&D Beyond FoundersA trigger is part of the trap, so sure, it should be detectable. If it's well designed, the DC for detecting it might be really high though.
You don't often hear about players complaining about insufficient character deaths!
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
I mean if you want to kill your players...that can always be done....and with them thinking they should have planned better, not the DM is a jerk.
First of all, have the PCs make one check for traps when they first enter a room, and try to handle checking for traps by only letting the person in front check for traps as they are walking forward. I think you don't need to have high ACs, just clever traps. So, have traps that the players can't get around. This means there is a DC for noticing the trap and a DC for disarming the trap. Clever traps require more than just ending the trap. Like a failsafe. Meaning the PCs need something small, with significant weight to place inside the trap to keep a string down, or something more than, you make the check so you can do it. Don't be a complete jerk, come up with interesting ideas for why a PC might need something more.
Traps are really there to scare your players, not to kill them. So what level are your PCs?
They're level 11, and we're playing tomb of horrors so they expect to die.
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D&D Beyond FoundersHah, well, that module was specifically designed to kill whole adventuring parties.
I haven't read the most recent version, but if it's anything like the old ones, they shouldn't have to worry too much about dying, it's more a matter of when.
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Last week I threw a behir and an ochre jelly at them and they took it in stride, barely any damage between them.
This discussion reminds a bit of the discussion active perception roll vs. passive perception. To avoid the fact that the party makes a perception check every 5 ft (which is a great advantage for the party, all the traps will most likely be found), you can decide that in every room (or corridor, area....) the party is allowed to do only one perception check. This way some traps will escape the party's detection.
Ok, first, read the section on "Group Checks" That is what you should be using.
Second, don't let it bother you. In my Elanon campaign, we have 5 adult players and my son. He is relatively new to D&D and I helped him with suggestions in creating his character, an Elf arcane rogue. He is usually in front with his passive perception of 19. So, there are few traps, secret doors, or ambushes they cannot detect.
Don't confuse "find traps" with disarm traps. Knowing it is there does not mean they have the time, ability, or successful rolls to disarm. see Alarm I have put the trap trigger behind a solid metal door that was virtually impossible to detect or disarm. It collapsed the entrance behind them, and then they had to search the entire dungeon for another way out. Party never complained about the trap, but it did teach them they are not perfect.
Some secret doors should not be opened. There is one door in one of my dungeons with enough water and a water elemental behind to flood the entire level to about 1.78 feet (yup, did the math; I am a geek...)
Ambush is not necessary, but when it is needed, Darkvision is only 60', bow range is farther, and it is not to hard to find something with darkvision 120'.
Third, don't forget that active searching takes time and focus. Easier to constantly ambush with "wandering" monsters from behind (perception at Disadvantage, Passive perception -5). In tomb of Horrors, you can simply add an evil adventuring party also be trying to get the loot and decide to sneak in behind...
Let the party play the way they want with the characters they want. Let them take pride in what they can do. Then design in ways that can still challenge them.
--
DM -- Elanon -- Homebrew world
Gronn -- Tiefling Warlock -- Amarath
Slim -- Halfling Cleric -- CoS (future Lord of Waterdeep 😁)
Bran -- Human Wizard - RoT
Making D&D mistakes and having fun since 1977!
Thanks everyone!
Want to kill the party? Here. Enjoy.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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That's evil and gorgeous in its simplicity. Love it!
I ended up using phase spiders and a nest created by one of my fellow dms and knocked chips off some shoulders. It was very effective.
I appreciate the compliments.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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