The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
From Bonus action casting rule:
You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
You could debate if you can use war caster’s OA if you cast a BA spell. But I think it’s pretty clear, and as some have pointed out BA casting doesn’t say you have to cast as an action. Both WC and BA just say the cantrip has to have a casting time of 1 action.
I agree with you. Both say that the spell/cantrip has to have a casting time of 1 action.
The only aspect open to DM interpretation is that a spell cast using Warcaster is being cast as a Reaction, not as an Action.
One of the specific beats general properties of Warcaster is that it allows a spell that usually requires 1 action to cast, to instead be cast using a Reaction. Whether casting a spell/cantrip as a Reaction is valid after using a Bonus Action spell is up to the DM in this case since normally a character could not cast a spell as a reaction after using a bonus action spell on their turn - that would include a cantrip that could be cast as a reaction if there were any.
I would disagree that it is up to DM interpretation (outside of the DM's normal ability to make any ruling, even against RAW). Any spell you cast with WC must have a casting time of 1 action. Using the logic that the spell now has a casting time of 1 reaction, then you would never be able to cast any spell using WC. WC doesn't change the casting time of the spell, it just lets you cast it as a reaction.
You stated exactly the point I was making :). A spell cast using warcaster must have a NORMAL casting time of 1 action. However, the warcaster feat allows you to cast that spell, which has a NORMAL casting time of 1 action, as a reaction. In this case, the spell IS being cast using a reaction, it is NOT being cast using an action. It is a case of the specific rules of warcaster over-riding the general rules of spellcasting. However, this is also why it is a DM call as to which way they want to interpret the rules.
The bonus action casting rule just says that any other spells cast on the same turn as a bonus action spell "Must be cantrips with a casting time of 1 action". It does NOT state "normal" in that description. Does a spell that is cast with a reaction have a casting time of 1 action? How can it? It is being cast as a reaction. (Both shield and counterspell are prevented both because they aren't cantrips but also because their casting time is not 1 action). The cantrip may have a "normal" casting time of 1 action but that isn't what the Bonus Action casting rule states (unless the DM decides to interpret it that way).
Anyway, this is a discussion of RAW, I think RAI is likely that Warcaster should continue to work even on a turn when a Bonus Action spell is cast (though still limited to cantrips) and that is likely how I would run it ... but I could see a DM ruling otherwise and still being consistent with RAW which is why we are having this discussion :).
A concrete example would be a sorcerer with the Warcaster feat casting quickened Dissonant Whispers on an adjacent enemy. The enemy fails the save and runs away. Can the sorcerer use Warcaster to hit them with a cantrip as a reaction? And then use their action to cast another cantrip at the fleeing target? (There is clearly no issue casting a cantrip with their action, the only question is whether the casting of a cantrip with warcaster as a Reaction is allowed - which comes down to whether RAW is referring to the "Normal" casting time for the spell or the actual casting time being used at the moment the spell is cast (eg Reaction in this case) - which would be a DM call on how they want to run it though I think RAW probably leans towards preventing the reaction spell being cast since it IS being cast as a REACTION and not an action.
Just because you are casting the cantrip as a reaction doesn't mean that the cantrip has a casting time of a reaction. The casting time is hard coded into every spell.
Now the spellcasting rules state that if you cast a leveled spell as a bonus action, then you cannot cast another leveled spell this turn. So a quickened Fireball would mean that the only spell you can cast for the rest of your turn are cantrips. Because this doesn't say anything about the casting time of the spell, but what you use to cast it.
If they wanted to exclude War Caster (part of PHB) reaction cantrips, they could have said that you can only cast cantrips as an action. Because they said that it is limited to cantrips that have a casting time of one action, then War Caster reaction cantrips are perfectly RAW.
I think we are arguing over semantics at this point. I'm just trying to point out that an alternate reading is possible.
Please answer the following question. What is the casting time of ANY spell or cantrip cast using the Warcaster feat? What is your answer to that question?
My answer would be that any spell cast using the warcaster feat has a casting time of 1 reaction. The spell description may list a different time BUT when cast using the warcaster feat the spell is being cast using a reaction, not an action and not a bonus action. A spell cast using the warcaster feat has a casting time of 1 reaction.
What level is a 1st level magic missile spell cast using a 3rd level spell slot? Is it a 1st level spell or is it a 3rd level spell because that was the spell slot used to cast it? The spell stat block states that it is a 1st level spell. The specific rules regarding the spell slot used to cast the spell change it to a 3rd level spell for that casting only.
Similarly, when a spell is cast using the warcaster feat, the casting time of the spell is 1 reaction for that casting only, no matter what information is listed in the spell stat block.
If a DM decides that a spell cast using warcaster is being cast as a reaction for this casting only then they might say that it is NOT a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action, for this specific casting and disallow it.
Thus, my contention that it is a DM call as to whether to allow it or not.
Please answer the following question. What is the casting time of ANY spell or cantrip cast using the Warcaster feat? What is your answer to that question?
I agree that it all depends on how you, or the DM more specifically, answers that question. That answer will determine if it would be ruled how I read it or how you read it.
So we agree on that part, just not the answer. Which is perfectly fine.
I think we are arguing over semantics at this point. I'm just trying to point out that an alternate reading is possible.
Please answer the following question. What is the casting time of ANY spell or cantrip cast using the Warcaster feat? What is your answer to that question?
My answer would be that any spell cast using the warcaster feat has a casting time of 1 reaction. The spell description may list a different time BUT when cast using the warcaster feat the spell is being cast using a reaction, not an action and not a bonus action. A spell cast using the warcaster feat has a casting time of 1 reaction.
That's my understanding as well. Using that feature changes the casting time of the spell. It has a requirement that the spell have an casting time of 1 Action, the changes the casting time to 1 Reaction.
Quickened spell is the same. The feature has a requirement of "1 Action" and then changes the casting time to "1 Bonus Action".
Can you use a melee spell attack to make an opportunity attack?
You can’t if the spell attack is created by casting a spell. When a creature triggers an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against it. The opportunity attack doesn’t suddenly give you the ability to cast a spell, such as shocking grasp.
Each spell has a casting time. A game feature, such as an opportunity attack, doesn’t let you bypass that casting time, unless the feature says otherwise. The War Caster feat is an example of a feature that does let you bypass a 1-action casting time to cast a spell in place of making an opportunity attack.
Question: "Warcaster doesn't state that it changes casting time of the spell when you replace an OA with it like Quicken spell does. Could you use WC to reaction cast an action cantrip on the same turn you cast a bonus action spell?"
Answer: Yes.
He's confirming here both things, but one of them is: "Warcaster doesn't state that it changes casting time of the spell when you replace an OA"
Please answer the following question. What is the casting time of ANY spell or cantrip cast using the Warcaster feat? What is your answer to that question?
I agree that it all depends on how you, or the DM more specifically, answers that question. That answer will determine if it would be ruled how I read it or how you read it.
So we agree on that part, just not the answer. Which is perfectly fine.
They would have a casting time of an action. But it would spend your reaction to cast the spell.
When looking at a spell there is a lil section on top which states the casting time. That IS the casting time, it never changes, the casting time just says this is the action required to cast it. That doesn’t mean any time you cast a spell you would have to use that casting time, as long as a rule says so. (I.e Warcaster, Quickened Spell, That one sorcerer capstone)
There is no rules about normal casting time, there is just casting time, it doesn’t change.
I would actually agree with David here in the most basic form when considering how up-casting spells works. When using spell slots to up-cast a spell it changes the level of the spell being cast. It would make sense that a spell being cast through the War Caster feat is to be considered a spell with a casting time of a reaction - for the purpose of determining if something triggers off it or there's some benefits or penalties associated with interacting or being hit by such a spell.
I'm actually getting a bit fuzzy on the rules of how War Caster would work outside your own turn. Take this example: A War Caster takes their turn and cast a Bonus Action spell and a Cantrip during their turn. They end their turn and during another creature's turn they trigger an OA of the War Caster. Which types of spells can the War Caster cast? Leveled or only cantrip?
I imagine most would say they can cast any spell with a casting time of 1 action, leveled or cantrip.
In these instances the entire round of combat takes 6 seconds and your turn in the turn order doesn't actually change anything, it's a representation of what you are doing during that 6 seconds time frame. It's a game mechanic to make combat flow. Thus it logically doesn't make sense that casting a BA spell during your own turn and then having an opponent trigger an OA during your turn, which you substitute through War Caster for a spell cast, should be limited because it's still your turn, compared to if you had it trigger an OA after your turn ends which then removes all restraints from casting a BA spell.
Similar consideration could be had for casting a BA spell and then wanting to cast Counterspell to an opponent's Counterspell. Again it seems really unintuitive that a BA spell puts so many restrictions on your spell casting. It feels... clunky. Part of the description of a BA spell is that it is very quick, so in comparison a regular action spell is slower - but there's no problem in casting a spell requiring an action and then a Counterspell during your own turn. This doesn't make sense.
If we consider the intent, the purpose as it stands is just to make sure you cannot cast a bonus action spell and a leveled spell as part of your normal turn - without considering reactions that functions like a butt-in action and should be considered its own separate action away from your turn's actions. There's only two cantrips with a casting time of a bonus action, but using them means you can only cast cantrips during that turn. Isn't the actual purpose to not allow two leveled spells to be cast on the same turn - again separating spells that uses a reaction. Perhaps the ruling should reflect that more.
Honestly I hope for 5.5 (OneDND) they revisit the wording on Bonus Action spellcasting so it restricts less and subsequently becomes less confusing and situational.
Edit: With the introduction of the "Magic action" that might actually be a reality.
Casting a Spell at a Higher Level specifically say when a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. If it didn't specifically say that, it would remain the same level.
The War Caster feat specifically say you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack, not that the spell Casting Time become a reaction specifically.
Please answer the following question. What is the casting time of ANY spell or cantrip cast using the Warcaster feat? What is your answer to that question?
I agree that it all depends on how you, or the DM more specifically, answers that question. That answer will determine if it would be ruled how I read it or how you read it.
So we agree on that part, just not the answer. Which is perfectly fine.
They would have a casting time of an action. But it would spend your reaction to cast the spell.
When looking at a spell there is a lil section on top which states the casting time. That IS the casting time, it never changes, the casting time just says this is the action required to cast it. That doesn’t mean any time you cast a spell you would have to use that casting time, as long as a rule says so. (I.e Warcaster, Quickened Spell, That one sorcerer capstone)
There is no rules about normal casting time, there is just casting time, it doesn’t change.
The problem with that approach is the quicken spell metamagic (as another poster mentioned).
"When you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 2 sorcery points to change the casting time to 1 bonus action for this casting."
If the casting time in the stat block IS the casting time then even using quicken to cast an action spell as a bonus action, the spell would still be a spell with a casting time of 1 action.
Quicken spell explicitly changes the casting time to 1 bonus action from 1 action. War caster implicitly changes the casting time to 1 reaction from 1 action since you are using a reaction to cast the spell and not an action.
Casting a Spell at a Higher Level specifically say when a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. If it didn't specifically say that, it would remain the same level.
The War Caster feat specifically say you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack, not that the spell Casting Time become a reaction specifically.
Exactly :) ... which is why it is up to the DM to decide how they want to run it. Quicken metamagic explicitly changes the casting time to a bonus action for this casting. However, Warcaster implicitly changes the casting time because you only need to expend a reaction to cast a spell that would usually require 1 action. Warcaster doesn't have an explicit statement about changing the casting time, but since the spell is being cast as a reaction and not an action - it's casting time IS being changed by Warcaster for this one casting. Does Warcaster need to include a comment that the casting time is changed to 1 reaction for this casting only? I'd say no because the spell is being cast as a reaction which is pretty obvious.
However, it is up to the DM to decide in their game whether this change to the casting time of 1 reaction is affected by the bonus action spellcasting rule or not.
P.S. As I mentioned previously, I think that RAI is that warcaster could be used with a cantrip on a turn in which a bonus action spell is cast. (which matches the JC quotes above) and that is how I would tend to run it. However, we are discussing RAW, and I can see different ways to legitimately read the rules if a DM so chooses.
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Finally, to the poster who was asking about whether warcaster is affected on other creature's turns. The answer is no. The bonus action spell casting rule only applies for the specific turn (not round) in which the bonus action spell is cast. On another creature's turn, warcaster can be used to cast any spell or cantrip that qualifies for casting with warcaster.
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Lol :) ... anyway, I think that the subject has probably been exhausted now though the addition of the comments about quicken and the tweet from JC were both useful recent additions.
Personally, I don't any extra weight to JC tweets, he apparently commented at one point that he often answered those as if he was ruling as a DM running the situation at the time without necessarily referencing the specific rules (which is why he has had contradictory answers over the years). SAC, on the other hand, has at least been reviewed by others and notes that it is official rulings while the tweets from anyone including JC are considered unofficial.
I think it is funny that you are saying that something implied is Rules as Written. War Caster does not change the casting time, it just lets you cast any spell witha casting time of 1 action as your reaction. So when you cast that spell with War Caster, it still has a casting time of 1 action, as is required by the feat.
If it had a casting time of 1 action it would be cast using 1 action.
In the case of warcaster, the spell is not cast using 1 action, it is cast using 1 reaction, so when the spell is cast with the warcaster feat, the spell has a casting time of 1 reaction. I'm not sure why folks get so stuck on that. If a spell is cast using a reaction then it has a casting time of 1 reaction for that casting only since it is clearly not being cast as an action.
However, for some reason, that seems to be the sticking point of the discussion.
Just because Warcaster doesn't say "for this casting only the spell has a casting time of 1 reaction" ... which is what quicken spell does when casting a spell as a bonus action ... doesn't change the fact that the Warcaster feat allows you to cast a spell that normally requires 1 action as a reaction for this one time only.
P.S. Or maybe a DM can read the Warcaster feat and say that the effect of the feat is to use your reaction to give you an extra action to cast a spell. It doesn't say that either but if you want spells cast using Warcaster to be cast using an Action then you'd need to interpret warcaster to give the character an additional Cast a Spell Action as a reaction.
I think it is funny that you are saying that something implied is Rules as Written. War Caster does not change the casting time, it just lets you cast any spell witha casting time of 1 action as your reaction. So when you cast that spell with War Caster, it still has a casting time of 1 action, as is required by the feat.
If it had a casting time of 1 action it would be cast using 1 action.
In the case of warcaster, the spell is not cast using 1 action, it is cast using 1 reaction, so when the spell is cast with the warcaster feat, the spell has a casting time of 1 reaction. I'm not sure why folks get so stuck on that. If a spell is cast using a reaction then it has a casting time of 1 reaction for that casting only since it is clearly not being cast as an action.
However, for some reason, that seems to be the sticking point of the discussion.
Just because Warcaster doesn't say "for this casting only the spell has a casting time of 1 reaction" ... which is what quicken spell does when casting a spell as a bonus action ... doesn't change the fact that the Warcaster feat allows you to cast a spell that normally requires 1 action as a reaction for this one time only.
P.S. Or maybe a DM can read the Warcaster feat and say that the effect of the feat is to use your reaction to give you an extra action to cast a spell. It doesn't say that either but if you want spells cast using Warcaster to be cast using an Action then you'd need to interpret warcaster to give the character an additional Cast a Spell Action as a reaction.
This confuses me. If your argument contains “just because it doesn’t say” immediately means you are not speaking RAW but RAI or Rule of Cool.
Quicken specifically calls out the actual changing of casting time. War Caster does not so it doesn’t. It gives a specific rule that allows you to cast a spell with a “casting time of 1 Action” as a reaction. So you can Quicken BA cast Dissonant Whispers then, with War Caster Opportunity Attack, cast a 1 Action Cantrip. And use your action, if you wish, cast a 1 Action Cantrip.
But it is not a full Cast a Spell Action as it is limited to what types of spells you can do. Then they would have to put all of the caveats into this new action they were creating, which is not what War Caster does.
War Caster gives you another way to use your reaction, just like the general Opportunity Attack rule gives you a way to use your reaction. OA lets you make an attack (usually only doable by using the Attack Action) as a reaction. It doesn't make attacks only cost a reaction, it just lets you make an attack. In the same way, War Caster lets you cast a spell as a reaction under the same circumstances as OA. Then it dictates that the spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must only target the creature that triggered the OA. It does not change the casting time, because it is requiring a very specific casting time. Otherwise you would be casting a spell that has a casting time of a reaction, which you can't do because War Caster requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action.
You realize your comments are circular and contradictory? :)
"War Caster lets you cast a spell as a reaction" Yes it does.
"you would be casting a spell that has a casting time of a reaction, which you can't do because War Caster requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action."
You just stated that War caster casts the spell as a reaction and then say War caster can't cast a spell as a reaction since it requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action. So which is it? Is the spell being cast as an action or as a reaction? What is the time needed to cast the spell in this case? Is it a reaction or an action? Is the casting time in this specific case (using warcaster) an action or a reaction? We all know that when cast normally the spell requires an action to cast. Does it take an action to cast when using Warcaster? If so, where does this action come from? If it doesn't require an action to cast when using warcaster what does it need? Is the spell cast in this case with a casting time of 1 reaction?
Anyway. Last time. War caster modifies the casting time of a spell that normally requires 1 action so that it can be cast as a reaction. That is what it does. The spell is not being cast as an action is it? It is actually being cast as a reaction for this casting only ... that is what warcaster does. It changes the casting time of a spell that must have a normal casting time of 1 action (and targets a single creature) to a casting time of 1 reaction that can be used instead of an opportunity attack.
This confuses me. If your argument contains “just because it doesn’t say” immediately means you are not speaking RAW but RAI or Rule of Cool.
Quicken specifically calls out the actual changing of casting time. War Caster does not so it doesn’t. It gives a specific rule that allows you to cast a spell with a “casting time of 1 Action” as a reaction. So you can Quicken BA cast Dissonant Whispers then, with War Caster Opportunity Attack, cast a 1 Action Cantrip. And use your action, if you wish, cast a 1 Action Cantrip.
Unfortunately it isn't that simple. The designers just aren't that careful with their wording of rules text. They made a choice to use "natural language" when writing the rules and to trust us players to not to be that picky when reading them (IMO a bad choice). The rules are littered with small inconsistencies in wording that aren't (usually) meant to have a substantively different end result.
On this issue we can look at two class features that have a slightly different wording, Meta magic and the Grave domain Cleric.
Quickened Spell says "When you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 2 sorcery points to change the casting time to 1 bonus action for this casting.". Grave Domain says "For you, it has a range of 30 feet, and you can cast it as a bonus action.".
Both features allow casting a spell that usually takes an Action to be cast using a Bonus Action but only one of them use the word "change", are we really to think that that difference in wording means that they have a substantially different working mechanic. I can't see that.
Of course the Grave Domain feature won't have the same issue as Warcaster has because you only have one Bonus Action but the principle is the same. When Warcaster says "you can use your reaction to cast a spell" there is no need to specify that the casting time is changed, the simple fact that it is cast with a different casting time than it normally would have been means that the casting has been changed.
Just to be clear, I would still probably allow Warcaster to do its thing because I don't think that the Bonus Action spell restriction was ever meant to target Warcaster, IMO it was meant to keep Quickened Spell from being way over powered at mid game levels.
But it is not a full Cast a Spell Action as it is limited to what types of spells you can do. Then they would have to put all of the caveats into this new action they were creating, which is not what War Caster does.
War Caster gives you another way to use your reaction, just like the general Opportunity Attack rule gives you a way to use your reaction. OA lets you make an attack (usually only doable by using the Attack Action) as a reaction. It doesn't make attacks only cost a reaction, it just lets you make an attack. In the same way, War Caster lets you cast a spell as a reaction under the same circumstances as OA. Then it dictates that the spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must only target the creature that triggered the OA. It does not change the casting time, because it is requiring a very specific casting time. Otherwise you would be casting a spell that has a casting time of a reaction, which you can't do because War Caster requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action.
You realize your comments are circular and contradictory? :)
"War Caster lets you cast a spell as a reaction" Yes it does.
"you would be casting a spell that has a casting time of a reaction, which you can't do because War Caster requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action."
You just stated that War caster casts the spell as a reaction and then say War caster can't cast a spell as a reaction since it requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action.
...
He's not saying that. I will fix your phrase:
"You just stated that War caster casts the spell as a reaction and then say War caster can't cast a spell with Casting Time = 1 reaction since it requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action."
If we follow your or @Thezzaruz's suggestions, it might imply that you can cast spells with a Casting Time = 1 action but changed to Casting Time = 1 reaction (as per your interpretation of the feat changing the casting time) and also spells with already a Casting Time = 1 reaction. However, this is not true.
Does the War Caster say anything about cantrips?
No. But the one conversation I was referring to was about a BA spell then WC so you would be limited to a cantrip.
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Oh, sorry... yeah, totally right, my fault then.
I agree with you. Both say that the spell/cantrip has to have a casting time of 1 action.
The only aspect open to DM interpretation is that a spell cast using Warcaster is being cast as a Reaction, not as an Action.
One of the specific beats general properties of Warcaster is that it allows a spell that usually requires 1 action to cast, to instead be cast using a Reaction. Whether casting a spell/cantrip as a Reaction is valid after using a Bonus Action spell is up to the DM in this case since normally a character could not cast a spell as a reaction after using a bonus action spell on their turn - that would include a cantrip that could be cast as a reaction if there were any.
You stated exactly the point I was making :). A spell cast using warcaster must have a NORMAL casting time of 1 action. However, the warcaster feat allows you to cast that spell, which has a NORMAL casting time of 1 action, as a reaction. In this case, the spell IS being cast using a reaction, it is NOT being cast using an action. It is a case of the specific rules of warcaster over-riding the general rules of spellcasting. However, this is also why it is a DM call as to which way they want to interpret the rules.
The bonus action casting rule just says that any other spells cast on the same turn as a bonus action spell "Must be cantrips with a casting time of 1 action". It does NOT state "normal" in that description. Does a spell that is cast with a reaction have a casting time of 1 action? How can it? It is being cast as a reaction. (Both shield and counterspell are prevented both because they aren't cantrips but also because their casting time is not 1 action). The cantrip may have a "normal" casting time of 1 action but that isn't what the Bonus Action casting rule states (unless the DM decides to interpret it that way).
Anyway, this is a discussion of RAW, I think RAI is likely that Warcaster should continue to work even on a turn when a Bonus Action spell is cast (though still limited to cantrips) and that is likely how I would run it ... but I could see a DM ruling otherwise and still being consistent with RAW which is why we are having this discussion :).
A concrete example would be a sorcerer with the Warcaster feat casting quickened Dissonant Whispers on an adjacent enemy. The enemy fails the save and runs away. Can the sorcerer use Warcaster to hit them with a cantrip as a reaction? And then use their action to cast another cantrip at the fleeing target? (There is clearly no issue casting a cantrip with their action, the only question is whether the casting of a cantrip with warcaster as a Reaction is allowed - which comes down to whether RAW is referring to the "Normal" casting time for the spell or the actual casting time being used at the moment the spell is cast (eg Reaction in this case) - which would be a DM call on how they want to run it though I think RAW probably leans towards preventing the reaction spell being cast since it IS being cast as a REACTION and not an action.
I would argue the opposite. That sorcerer could do their quickened spell BA, reaction via War Caster cantrip. And a cantrip as an Action as well
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I think we are arguing over semantics at this point. I'm just trying to point out that an alternate reading is possible.
Please answer the following question. What is the casting time of ANY spell or cantrip cast using the Warcaster feat? What is your answer to that question?
My answer would be that any spell cast using the warcaster feat has a casting time of 1 reaction. The spell description may list a different time BUT when cast using the warcaster feat the spell is being cast using a reaction, not an action and not a bonus action. A spell cast using the warcaster feat has a casting time of 1 reaction.
What level is a 1st level magic missile spell cast using a 3rd level spell slot? Is it a 1st level spell or is it a 3rd level spell because that was the spell slot used to cast it? The spell stat block states that it is a 1st level spell. The specific rules regarding the spell slot used to cast the spell change it to a 3rd level spell for that casting only.
Similarly, when a spell is cast using the warcaster feat, the casting time of the spell is 1 reaction for that casting only, no matter what information is listed in the spell stat block.
If a DM decides that a spell cast using warcaster is being cast as a reaction for this casting only then they might say that it is NOT a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action, for this specific casting and disallow it.
Thus, my contention that it is a DM call as to whether to allow it or not.
I agree that it all depends on how you, or the DM more specifically, answers that question. That answer will determine if it would be ruled how I read it or how you read it.
So we agree on that part, just not the answer. Which is perfectly fine.
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That's my understanding as well. Using that feature changes the casting time of the spell. It has a requirement that the spell have an casting time of 1 Action, the changes the casting time to 1 Reaction.
Quickened spell is the same. The feature has a requirement of "1 Action" and then changes the casting time to "1 Bonus Action".
In my oppinion, if you use War Caster, you cast the spell with a 1-action casting time, but it consumes your reaction. That's all.
Also, we can extract this text from Sage Advice Compendium (emphasis mine):
And this tweet from Jeremy Crawford:
He's confirming here both things, but one of them is: "Warcaster doesn't state that it changes casting time of the spell when you replace an OA"
They would have a casting time of an action. But it would spend your reaction to cast the spell.
When looking at a spell there is a lil section on top which states the casting time. That IS the casting time, it never changes, the casting time just says this is the action required to cast it. That doesn’t mean any time you cast a spell you would have to use that casting time, as long as a rule says so. (I.e Warcaster, Quickened Spell, That one sorcerer capstone)
There is no rules about normal casting time, there is just casting time, it doesn’t change.
I would actually agree with David here in the most basic form when considering how up-casting spells works. When using spell slots to up-cast a spell it changes the level of the spell being cast. It would make sense that a spell being cast through the War Caster feat is to be considered a spell with a casting time of a reaction - for the purpose of determining if something triggers off it or there's some benefits or penalties associated with interacting or being hit by such a spell.
I'm actually getting a bit fuzzy on the rules of how War Caster would work outside your own turn. Take this example: A War Caster takes their turn and cast a Bonus Action spell and a Cantrip during their turn. They end their turn and during another creature's turn they trigger an OA of the War Caster. Which types of spells can the War Caster cast? Leveled or only cantrip?
I imagine most would say they can cast any spell with a casting time of 1 action, leveled or cantrip.
In these instances the entire round of combat takes 6 seconds and your turn in the turn order doesn't actually change anything, it's a representation of what you are doing during that 6 seconds time frame. It's a game mechanic to make combat flow. Thus it logically doesn't make sense that casting a BA spell during your own turn and then having an opponent trigger an OA during your turn, which you substitute through War Caster for a spell cast, should be limited because it's still your turn, compared to if you had it trigger an OA after your turn ends which then removes all restraints from casting a BA spell.
Similar consideration could be had for casting a BA spell and then wanting to cast Counterspell to an opponent's Counterspell. Again it seems really unintuitive that a BA spell puts so many restrictions on your spell casting. It feels... clunky.
Part of the description of a BA spell is that it is very quick, so in comparison a regular action spell is slower - but there's no problem in casting a spell requiring an action and then a Counterspell during your own turn.
This doesn't make sense.
If we consider the intent, the purpose as it stands is just to make sure you cannot cast a bonus action spell and a leveled spell as part of your normal turn - without considering reactions that functions like a butt-in action and should be considered its own separate action away from your turn's actions. There's only two cantrips with a casting time of a bonus action, but using them means you can only cast cantrips during that turn. Isn't the actual purpose to not allow two leveled spells to be cast on the same turn - again separating spells that uses a reaction. Perhaps the ruling should reflect that more.
Honestly I hope for 5.5 (OneDND) they revisit the wording on Bonus Action spellcasting so it restricts less and subsequently becomes less confusing and situational.
Edit: With the introduction of the "Magic action" that might actually be a reality.
Casting a Spell at a Higher Level specifically say when a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell assumes the higher level for that casting. If it didn't specifically say that, it would remain the same level.
The War Caster feat specifically say you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack, not that the spell Casting Time become a reaction specifically.
The problem with that approach is the quicken spell metamagic (as another poster mentioned).
"When you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 2 sorcery points to change the casting time to 1 bonus action for this casting."
If the casting time in the stat block IS the casting time then even using quicken to cast an action spell as a bonus action, the spell would still be a spell with a casting time of 1 action.
Quicken spell explicitly changes the casting time to 1 bonus action from 1 action. War caster implicitly changes the casting time to 1 reaction from 1 action since you are using a reaction to cast the spell and not an action.
Exactly :) ... which is why it is up to the DM to decide how they want to run it. Quicken metamagic explicitly changes the casting time to a bonus action for this casting. However, Warcaster implicitly changes the casting time because you only need to expend a reaction to cast a spell that would usually require 1 action. Warcaster doesn't have an explicit statement about changing the casting time, but since the spell is being cast as a reaction and not an action - it's casting time IS being changed by Warcaster for this one casting. Does Warcaster need to include a comment that the casting time is changed to 1 reaction for this casting only? I'd say no because the spell is being cast as a reaction which is pretty obvious.
However, it is up to the DM to decide in their game whether this change to the casting time of 1 reaction is affected by the bonus action spellcasting rule or not.
P.S. As I mentioned previously, I think that RAI is that warcaster could be used with a cantrip on a turn in which a bonus action spell is cast. (which matches the JC quotes above) and that is how I would tend to run it. However, we are discussing RAW, and I can see different ways to legitimately read the rules if a DM so chooses.
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Finally, to the poster who was asking about whether warcaster is affected on other creature's turns. The answer is no. The bonus action spell casting rule only applies for the specific turn (not round) in which the bonus action spell is cast. On another creature's turn, warcaster can be used to cast any spell or cantrip that qualifies for casting with warcaster.
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Lol :) ... anyway, I think that the subject has probably been exhausted now though the addition of the comments about quicken and the tweet from JC were both useful recent additions.
Personally, I don't any extra weight to JC tweets, he apparently commented at one point that he often answered those as if he was ruling as a DM running the situation at the time without necessarily referencing the specific rules (which is why he has had contradictory answers over the years). SAC, on the other hand, has at least been reviewed by others and notes that it is official rulings while the tweets from anyone including JC are considered unofficial.
If it had a casting time of 1 action it would be cast using 1 action.
In the case of warcaster, the spell is not cast using 1 action, it is cast using 1 reaction, so when the spell is cast with the warcaster feat, the spell has a casting time of 1 reaction. I'm not sure why folks get so stuck on that. If a spell is cast using a reaction then it has a casting time of 1 reaction for that casting only since it is clearly not being cast as an action.
However, for some reason, that seems to be the sticking point of the discussion.
Just because Warcaster doesn't say "for this casting only the spell has a casting time of 1 reaction" ... which is what quicken spell does when casting a spell as a bonus action ... doesn't change the fact that the Warcaster feat allows you to cast a spell that normally requires 1 action as a reaction for this one time only.
P.S. Or maybe a DM can read the Warcaster feat and say that the effect of the feat is to use your reaction to give you an extra action to cast a spell. It doesn't say that either but if you want spells cast using Warcaster to be cast using an Action then you'd need to interpret warcaster to give the character an additional Cast a Spell Action as a reaction.
That's the point @ArntItheBest
This confuses me. If your argument contains “just because it doesn’t say” immediately means you are not speaking RAW but RAI or Rule of Cool.
Quicken specifically calls out the actual changing of casting time. War Caster does not so it doesn’t. It gives a specific rule that allows you to cast a spell with a “casting time of 1 Action” as a reaction. So you can Quicken BA cast Dissonant Whispers then, with War Caster Opportunity Attack, cast a 1 Action Cantrip. And use your action, if you wish, cast a 1 Action Cantrip.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
You realize your comments are circular and contradictory? :)
"War Caster lets you cast a spell as a reaction" Yes it does.
"you would be casting a spell that has a casting time of a reaction, which you can't do because War Caster requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action."
You just stated that War caster casts the spell as a reaction and then say War caster can't cast a spell as a reaction since it requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action. So which is it? Is the spell being cast as an action or as a reaction? What is the time needed to cast the spell in this case? Is it a reaction or an action? Is the casting time in this specific case (using warcaster) an action or a reaction? We all know that when cast normally the spell requires an action to cast. Does it take an action to cast when using Warcaster? If so, where does this action come from? If it doesn't require an action to cast when using warcaster what does it need? Is the spell cast in this case with a casting time of 1 reaction?
Anyway. Last time. War caster modifies the casting time of a spell that normally requires 1 action so that it can be cast as a reaction. That is what it does. The spell is not being cast as an action is it? It is actually being cast as a reaction for this casting only ... that is what warcaster does. It changes the casting time of a spell that must have a normal casting time of 1 action (and targets a single creature) to a casting time of 1 reaction that can be used instead of an opportunity attack.
Unfortunately it isn't that simple. The designers just aren't that careful with their wording of rules text. They made a choice to use "natural language" when writing the rules and to trust us players to not to be that picky when reading them (IMO a bad choice). The rules are littered with small inconsistencies in wording that aren't (usually) meant to have a substantively different end result.
On this issue we can look at two class features that have a slightly different wording, Meta magic and the Grave domain Cleric.
Quickened Spell says "When you cast a spell that has a casting time of 1 action, you can spend 2 sorcery points to change the casting time to 1 bonus action for this casting.".
Grave Domain says "For you, it has a range of 30 feet, and you can cast it as a bonus action.".
Both features allow casting a spell that usually takes an Action to be cast using a Bonus Action but only one of them use the word "change", are we really to think that that difference in wording means that they have a substantially different working mechanic. I can't see that.
Of course the Grave Domain feature won't have the same issue as Warcaster has because you only have one Bonus Action but the principle is the same. When Warcaster says "you can use your reaction to cast a spell" there is no need to specify that the casting time is changed, the simple fact that it is cast with a different casting time than it normally would have been means that the casting has been changed.
Just to be clear, I would still probably allow Warcaster to do its thing because I don't think that the Bonus Action spell restriction was ever meant to target Warcaster, IMO it was meant to keep Quickened Spell from being way over powered at mid game levels.
He's not saying that. I will fix your phrase:
"You just stated that War caster casts the spell as a reaction and then say War caster can't cast a spell with Casting Time = 1 reaction since it requires the spell to have a casting time of 1 action."
If we follow your or @Thezzaruz's suggestions, it might imply that you can cast spells with a Casting Time = 1 action but changed to Casting Time = 1 reaction (as per your interpretation of the feat changing the casting time) and also spells with already a Casting Time = 1 reaction. However, this is not true.