I was wondering, if you are proficient in a tool such as wood carving or cook's tools, what do you add normally (RAW) for it? is it just your proficiency modifier or add something else to it?
Similar thing for musical instruments, does it have to be performance or it can be just proficiency modifier?
I am curious since i am a DMing players who have asked for my ruling to it.
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Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
It's an ability check, so the ability modifier plus proficiency bonus. Depending on the tool, I would let players argue for different ability scores, though the score chosen will affect the sort of outcome they get. Someone playing music with dex might get a song that is mechanically correct while someone playing with cha could stir emotions in the audience.
It will depend on the situation. I highly recommend reading the section on Tool usage in Xanathar's Guide To Everything, they give some excellent guidance on how to use Tool proficiencies, since the PHB and DMG didn't offer much. Ultimately, it will be up to the Dungeon Master to decide what kind of roll you make. There may be cases where you'll make a straight ability check but add your proficiency bonus because of your skill with a specific type of tool(like rolling a Strength check with proficiency from Smith's Tools to make a sword). If you're making a check where both a Skill and Tool proficiency would apply and you're proficient with both, the DM may let you make the Skill check with Advantage(If you're proficient with Mason's Tools, you might get advantage on looking for a secret door in a stone wall). Don't be afraid to ask your DM if your proficiency with a related Tool might be of some benefit to what you're trying to do. Or maybe discuss with them between sessions about scenarios where and how your various proficiencies might synergize. Many DMs will want to recognize their players' ingenuity. Just try not to come off like you're telling the DM how to run the game. Try phrasing it something like:
Player: Do I know what civilization and/or time period this sword is from? I'm proficient in History.
DM: Sure, make a History check.
Player: If I'm also proficient with Smith's Tools, would my knowledge of how weapons are made help with this roll?
DM: Good call, weapon crafting is something you know particularly well, make that History check with Advantage.
The rules for tools are too vague. The optional rules from XGtE help, but they still dont give much context for expertise in tools.
If you need to use a tool for something that doesn't overlap with a similar skill, you would make an ability check (which ability depends on situation) with the tool, adding proficiency/expertise bonus.
For example to fix plate armor DM might decide DC13 STR (Smith Tools) check. To make a potion DM might decide DC14 INT (alchemist supplies) check. To carve a name into a weapon DM might decide DC12 DEX (Smith Tools) check. Which ability depends on the task, not the tool, but it is all up to DM.
If you're proficient in the tool and the skill would you just apply the proficiency twice (or 3-4x with expertise)?
Say you're proficient with performance so you add your +3 (at level 5) but also proficient with the bagpipes so you'd add another +3 to your CHA check for a CHA(performance)+3+3?
If you're proficient in the tool and the skill would you just apply the proficiency twice (or 3-4x with expertise)?
Say you're proficient with performance so you add your +3 (at level 5) but also proficient with the bagpipes so you'd add another +3 to your CHA check for a CHA(performance)+3+3?
Or would advantage be better?
I would never stack proficiency bonuses (DC becomes meaningless very quickly that way).
If a tool and skill both apply to the same task, I would apply the higher bonus with advantage.
If you're proficient in the tool and the skill would you just apply the proficiency twice (or 3-4x with expertise)?
Say you're proficient with performance so you add your +3 (at level 5) but also proficient with the bagpipes so you'd add another +3 to your CHA check for a CHA(performance)+3+3?
Or would advantage be better?
I would never stack proficiency bonuses (DC becomes meaningless very quickly that way).
If a tool and skill both apply to the same task, I would apply the higher bonus with advantage.
But by RAW, wouldn't you? Proficiency here + proficiency there?
If you're proficient in the tool and the skill would you just apply the proficiency twice (or 3-4x with expertise)?
Say you're proficient with performance so you add your +3 (at level 5) but also proficient with the bagpipes so you'd add another +3 to your CHA check for a CHA(performance)+3+3?
Or would advantage be better?
I would never stack proficiency bonuses (DC becomes meaningless very quickly that way).
If a tool and skill both apply to the same task, I would apply the higher bonus with advantage.
But by RAW, wouldn't you? Proficiency here + proficiency there?
No, you only get one bonus for proficiency. It can be your normal proficiency bonus, it can be twice your normal bonus in situations like a Rogue with Expertise in a skill, it can be half your normal bonus such as a Bard's Jack-Of-All-Trades feature, but you don't get to add a proficiency bonus from two different sources.
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I was wondering, if you are proficient in a tool such as wood carving or cook's tools, what do you add normally (RAW) for it? is it just your proficiency modifier or add something else to it?
Similar thing for musical instruments, does it have to be performance or it can be just proficiency modifier?
I am curious since i am a DMing players who have asked for my ruling to it.
Born under the watch of something from the furthest corners of the far realms.... It knows all.... it sees all... and it asks: "What is it that you want to see?"... and my answer is... ALL"
It's an ability check, so the ability modifier plus proficiency bonus. Depending on the tool, I would let players argue for different ability scores, though the score chosen will affect the sort of outcome they get. Someone playing music with dex might get a song that is mechanically correct while someone playing with cha could stir emotions in the audience.
It will depend on the situation. I highly recommend reading the section on Tool usage in Xanathar's Guide To Everything, they give some excellent guidance on how to use Tool proficiencies, since the PHB and DMG didn't offer much. Ultimately, it will be up to the Dungeon Master to decide what kind of roll you make. There may be cases where you'll make a straight ability check but add your proficiency bonus because of your skill with a specific type of tool(like rolling a Strength check with proficiency from Smith's Tools to make a sword). If you're making a check where both a Skill and Tool proficiency would apply and you're proficient with both, the DM may let you make the Skill check with Advantage(If you're proficient with Mason's Tools, you might get advantage on looking for a secret door in a stone wall). Don't be afraid to ask your DM if your proficiency with a related Tool might be of some benefit to what you're trying to do. Or maybe discuss with them between sessions about scenarios where and how your various proficiencies might synergize. Many DMs will want to recognize their players' ingenuity. Just try not to come off like you're telling the DM how to run the game. Try phrasing it something like:
Player: Do I know what civilization and/or time period this sword is from? I'm proficient in History.
DM: Sure, make a History check.
Player: If I'm also proficient with Smith's Tools, would my knowledge of how weapons are made help with this roll?
DM: Good call, weapon crafting is something you know particularly well, make that History check with Advantage.
Player: Sweet!
The rules for tools are too vague. The optional rules from XGtE help, but they still dont give much context for expertise in tools.
If you need to use a tool for something that doesn't overlap with a similar skill, you would make an ability check (which ability depends on situation) with the tool, adding proficiency/expertise bonus.
For example to fix plate armor DM might decide DC13 STR (Smith Tools) check. To make a potion DM might decide DC14 INT (alchemist supplies) check. To carve a name into a weapon DM might decide DC12 DEX (Smith Tools) check. Which ability depends on the task, not the tool, but it is all up to DM.
If you're proficient in the tool and the skill would you just apply the proficiency twice (or 3-4x with expertise)?
Say you're proficient with performance so you add your +3 (at level 5) but also proficient with the bagpipes so you'd add another +3 to your CHA check for a CHA(performance)+3+3?
Or would advantage be better?
I would never stack proficiency bonuses (DC becomes meaningless very quickly that way).
If a tool and skill both apply to the same task, I would apply the higher bonus with advantage.
But by RAW, wouldn't you? Proficiency here + proficiency there?
No, you only get one bonus for proficiency. It can be your normal proficiency bonus, it can be twice your normal bonus in situations like a Rogue with Expertise in a skill, it can be half your normal bonus such as a Bard's Jack-Of-All-Trades feature, but you don't get to add a proficiency bonus from two different sources.