So Elves are immune to magical sleep and only need to meditate on a semi-concious state for 4 hours to long rest.
Aspect of the Moon makes you immune to sleep, and not need to sleep. You long rest via light activity for 4 hours.
Would you say an elf with aspect of the moon now long rest via 2 hours of light activity? I understand that RAW probably does not interact that way, since it never says "half the time" it only ever states explicitly 4 hours. But would you rule it that way?
No, nor would I allow them to get a long rest after 4 hours. The elf feature allows you to get the benefit of sleeping after 4 hours, not the benefit of long resting. Sleep is not the same as a long rest (although it is a box you need to check off during a long rest), which is why Aspect of the Moon still requires 8 hours for a long rest even though none of it is sleep.
They errata'd how long rests work relating to sleep a while back, but even their errata doesn't say that elves get shorter rests RAW. "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch." Specific exceptions to how much of that 8 hours need to be sleep are one thing (see elf, aspect of the moon, warforged, etc etc), but I have yet to see a feature that provides a specific exception to the long rest being an 8 hour stretch.
Eh, I don't know if that's entirely true. The rules surrounding long rests are certainly pretty messy. Long Rest rules do say that characters sleep for at least 6 hours, yet other mentions of it say they sleep for 8 hours. Trance itself says this:
Trance
Elves don’t need to sleep. Instead, they meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious, for 4 hours a day. (The Common word for such meditation is “trance.”) While meditating, you can dream after a fashion; such dreams are actually mental exercises that have become reflexive through years of practice. After resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep.
Emphasis mine. The whole thing contradicts with the rule "you only need to sleep for 6 hours," but the last line certainly seems to imply that they gain the full benefit of a Long Rest after only 4 hours.
That said, Aspect of the Moon does not say it only requires 4 hours for a Long Rest. It still requires 8 hours. I would say you could let them choose between 4 hours of Trancing or 8 hours of light activity. That is, of course, if you allow the 4 hour Trance to count as a full Long Rest.
Sleep is not sufficient for a long rest, though it is a necessary component of one (absent a feature that provides an exception). That last sentence in no way contradicts with any language in long rest, although it does provide a specific exception to the 6 hours of sleep rule. RAW, a long rest takes 8 hours, whether you're sleeping for 8, 6, 4, or 0 hours. RAI, that may not be the case, but they've already written long rest once and didn't take the opportunity to suggest that a long rest is shortened for elves or others not needing sleep. Aspect of the Moon pretty emphatically demonstrates that sleepless entities don't get free 0-hour long rests, or even 2-hour long rests.
Mm, I've never seen it that way. A long rest is 8 hours, and you need to spend at least 6 of it sleeping. You can spend 8.
You say it's "a necessary component," but it is the only necessary component. "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch." Sleeping is the only thing you need to do. Trancing allows you to get the same benefit of 8 hours of sleeping in 4 hours. That's a Long Rest.
What do you mean by "they've already written long rest once?" Where?
I hate to drag SA into it (ugh), but it does say the same thing:
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours?
If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
Addition: Trance is one of the best traits of elves. If you don't allow it to count as a full long rest, the only benefit of it is that they can spend a little bit more time on watch or doing some light activity.
Addition*2: Huh, apparently Sage Advice has changed its mind on this in recent years. What I posted above is current, but in 2015 they posted this:
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours? The intent is no. The Trance trait does let an elf meditate for 4 hours and then feel the way a human does after sleeping for 8 hours, but that isn’t intended to shorten an elf’s long rest. A long rest is a period of relaxation that is at least 8 hours long. It can contain sleep, reading, talking, eating, and other restful activity. Standing watch is even possible during it, but for no more than 2 hours; maintaining heightened vigilance any longer than that isn’t restful. In short, a long rest and sleep aren’t the same thing; you can sleep when you’re not taking a long rest, and you can take a long rest and not sleep.
Granted that's pretty contradictory, particularly the last line: "you can take a long rest and not sleep." Super untrue. They've clearly changed their minds since, and for the better. As far as I can recall, elves could Trance to shorten rests in previous editions of DnD as well.
A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps or performs light activity: reading, talking, eating, or standing watch for no more than 2 hours.
to:
A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch.
That errata did not go so far as to say that a character which does not need to sleep, or which sleeps faster, is entitled to a shorter long rest. As things stand:
Normal Race: 8 hour+ long rest (6 hours+ sleep, 2 hours- light activity)
Elf: 8 hour+ long rest (4 hours+ trance, RAW 2 hours- light activity/2 hours+ "awake", but probably RAI just 4 hours+ light activity)
Warlock - Aspect of the Moon: 8 hour+ long rest (0 hours+ sleep, 8 hours+ light activity)
Warlock - The Undying 10: 8 hour+ long rest (0 hours+ sleep, RAW 2 hours- light activity/6 hours+ "awake", but probably RAI just 8 hours+ light activity)
Rogue - Revived Nature (UA): 8 hour+ long rest (4+ hours inactive, RAW 2 hours- light activity/2 hours+ "awake", but probably RAI just 4 hours+ light activity)
Potion of Watchful Rest: 8 hour+ long rest (0 hours+ sleep, 8 hours+ "awake", 2 hours- light activity)
Dream: target sleeper gets no benefit from long rest, despite sleeping.
Preparing spells for Wizard, Artificer, Cleric, and Druid: Preparing spells (part of your long rest that is not "sleep") takes 1 minute per spell level. A 20th level wizard memorizing one level-appropriate spell per spell slot would take 89 minutes (and actually could prepare a few more spells too depending on intelligence), so this is non-trivial.
Transcribing spells for Wizard: takes 2 hours per spell level, certainly can eat up a lot of time during a long rest.
Elves are not deprived of the benefit of their Trance by requiring an 8 hour rest. It frees them up to spend more time standing watch (perhaps the party would rather have the elf stand two watches and the low-wisdom fighter zero?), preparing spells, casting rituals, or whatever other light activity they want to fill their time with.
You only need to sleep during a Long Rest. You don't need to do anything else.
"A long rest is ... at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity."
For at least 6 hours means you can do more. No more than means you can do less than it, and since there's no limit to that, it means you don't have to do it at all. Therefore, the duration of the Rest being 8 hours long and sleeping at least 6 hours are the only two requirements to take a Long Rest. Light activity is not a requirement, just an option.
This clearly means that if an elf's Trance allows them to get 8 hours of sleep in 4 hours, they can gain the benefit of a Long Rest in just 4 hours. The condition of 8 hours of sleep is met, and the duration is fulfilled. Light activity is not necessary.
What benefit does an elf gain from being able to complete a long rest in only four hours? Unless the entire party is composed of elves, this doesn't actually add any time to the adventuring day for them unless they want to wander off and adventure solo. Worth noting is that by your interpretation, i.e. sleep being the only requirement for a long rest, an Aspect of the Moon warlock can opt to take a long rest instantaneously once per day - they do not require sleep at all and thus, by a "sleep is the only thing that makes a Long Rest" rule, they can opt for their once-per-day Long Rest pretty much whenever they need one, instantaneously.
That's clearly not correct or intended; an Aspect of the Moon warlock still needs to spend eight hours downtiming, as the invocation itself states.
I will also note that the very first line of Long Resting, which you decided to truncate very suspiciously there Jay, states the following: "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, ..."
First thing a Long Rest states is that a Long Rest is at least eight hours long. The normal rules of a long rest are six hours of sleep and two hours of light duty, which certain species/options can change. An elf can shorten the Sleep portion of a long rest to four hours, granting them two additional hours to do other junk. A warforged remains aware of its environment while Sentry's Rest-ing, an Aspect of the Moon warlock can spend the entire rest doing whatever light stuff they like, but in no case do any of these rules override the eight-hour downtime requirement of the long rest itself. They merely change what you can do during a long rest and still benefit from it.
Did you even read my post? I said that. To quote myself:
Therefore, the duration of the Rest being 8 hours long and sleeping at least 6 hours are the only two requirements to take a Long Rest.
Those are the two requirements, and the only two. Trance overrules the 8 hour duration to 4 hours, though with the additional requirement that they must meditate for those 4 hours. Aspect of the Moon still requires Warlocks to take 8 hours to benefit from a Long Rest, they just don't need to sleep at all. I never denied nor ignored that. Being an Elf doesn't allow them to benefit from Aspect of the Moon in just 4 hours with Trance, because the Trance requires - obviously - entering and completing the Trance. An elven Warlock with Aspect of the Moon would need to choose whether they want to Trance to complete a Long Rest in 4 hours, or if they want to stay awake for 8 hours.
To answer your question of what benefit it would give, there are several. Going off to explore by themselves is certainly one, particularly if the party contains two or more elves, but there are many more. Downtime activities are a big one; anyone who does any kind of crafting (such as with an Herbalism Kit or Poisoner's Kit) must spend 8 hours in a day in order to gain a day of progress towards completion of crafting an item. Trance allows you to complete half of this in a Long Rest, and AotM allows you to complete it all. The elven Rogue Assassin in my campaign does this all the time. There can also easily be situations in which the party can't spare a full 8 hours to take a rest, but they may be able to spare 4, allowing their elf Wizard to regain his spell slots.
These are just a couple examples, and the extra time for downtime activities is probably the best benefit... but that's a pretty awesome benefit.
The normal rules of a long rest are six hours of sleep and two hours of light duty, which certain species/options can change
This is not true. You do not need to do 2 hours of extra stuff; it is optional. The phrase "no more than" means exactly what it sounds like. You can do less than it, which means you can do none. If I offer you a box of cookies and say you can take "no more than 2," that doesn't mean you have to take 1 or 2. You can take 0. It doesn't say "no more than 2, but no less than 1" or anything of the sort. The two hours of light activity are not a requirement, they are an option.
Here is an old post from ENWorld on the topic. Not that I have much of a care, since most parties aren't entirely elves anyway. But, it gives some context behind the errata and the SAC entries both before the change and after. Might be useful reading for people on both sides of the argument.
So Elves are immune to magical sleep and only need to meditate on a semi-concious state for 4 hours to long rest.
Aspect of the Moon makes you immune to sleep, and not need to sleep. You long rest via light activity for 4 hours.
Would you say an elf with aspect of the moon now long rest via 2 hours of light activity? I understand that RAW probably does not interact that way, since it never says "half the time" it only ever states explicitly 4 hours. But would you rule it that way?
No. You can either meditate for 4 hours or do light activity for 8 as a long rest.
The currently official ruling on trance is:
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours?
If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
Man, 5e really is so funny. The things they do. What even is Sage Advice sometimes.
Sorry to repost it, but here is the current SA on this topic:
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours?
If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.
Now, it clearly says the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. The terms Sleep and Rest are used separately in the rules for resting, so the SA says that they get the Long Rest in 4 hours. They appear to have updated the rules and the SA at roughly the same time.
So why did they not actually fully clarify this in the books? Why does Trance say "after resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep?" Why does it not say "after resting in this way, you gain the benefits of a Long Rest" or whatever? Always so flowery with the wording. Please, just write the rules the way you want them already.
So Elves are immune to magical sleep and only need to meditate on a semi-concious state for 4 hours to long rest.
Aspect of the Moon makes you immune to sleep, and not need to sleep. You long rest via light activity for 4 hours.
Would you say an elf with aspect of the moon now long rest via 2 hours of light activity? I understand that RAW probably does not interact that way, since it never says "half the time" it only ever states explicitly 4 hours. But would you rule it that way?
basically, aspect of the moon works with an elves’ trance, like unarmored defense via monk/barbarian works with natural unarmored defense from lizardmen/tortle.
So why did they not actually fully clarify this in the books? Why does Trance say "after resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep?" Why does it not say "after resting in this way, you gain the benefits of a Long Rest" or whatever? Always so flowery with the wording. Please, just write the rules the way you want them already.
I couldn't agree more. 5e's biggest problem is no consistent rules language.
It seems pretty clear to me that the intent of a long rest is eight hours of not-doing-other-shit. During that time, a normal critter with no other rules in place has to spend at least six sleeping and no more than two doing not-sleeping things, or their rest isn't restful enough. Elves can switch that to four and four, via Trance, because they gain the benefit of eight hours of sleep from their Trance.
Sleep =/= Rest. Oddly enough. At least in D&D language.
A Moon Tomelock can go 0-8, taking all required watches or doing whatever else strikes their fancy. A warforged has to go six hours of Sentry's Rest, but can technically be on watch that entire time since it remains at least minimally aware. The benefit is easier watches and the aforementioned light-duty opportunities, not "I can complete a long rest in less time than it takes me to short rest and thus outadventure all my buddies."
SA is clear, but is not controlling of the question what is provided RAW in the rulebooks (especially since it contradicts the rulebooks). People are free to follow SAC and say that RAI elves can long rest in four hours, but should know that by doing so they're really opening a can of worms as to why warforged, warlocks, and revenant rogues don't get to follow suit. It also raises the question of why a human's long rest isn't finished in 6 hours if sleep is all that a long rest is about, since sleeping for 6 is apparently all they need. RAW, a long rest is 8 hours, and it also just so happens to be the cleanest rule to apply to a party and one I find far preferable to introducing yet another reason for the party to fight about when/why to take a rest.
RAW, a human who sleeps for eight consecutive hours gains the benefits of a long rest. This is because they spend at least 8 hours resting and at least 6 of those hours sleeping.
RAW, an elf who trances for four hours gains the same benefits as a human who sleeps for eight, as described in the Trance feature.
If a human sleeping for 8 hours=getting a long rest, and an elf trancing for 4 hours=a human sleeping for 8 hours, then an elf trancing for 4 hours=getting a long rest.
Forgive me for my diminutive intellect, sir, but I fail to see how this article is relevant to the current conversation. Perhaps you would be so kind as to elucidate further so that I might begin to fathom your superior logic.
I’m not great at formal logic either, the sigh was more about my inability to get my point across, not anyone else’s failure to understand. Sorry for my tone, that wasn’t necessary of me.
But the relevance is, you can’t long rest without sleeping (or, without a feature that replaces sleeping). But, you can sleep without long resting (victim of a dream spell, sleeping for a second time within same 24 hours that you’ve already long rested). Sleep is necessary to long rest, but not sufficient to long rest.
So Elves are immune to magical sleep and only need to meditate on a semi-concious state for 4 hours to long rest.
Aspect of the Moon makes you immune to sleep, and not need to sleep. You long rest via light activity for 4 hours.
Would you say an elf with aspect of the moon now long rest via 2 hours of light activity? I understand that RAW probably does not interact that way, since it never says "half the time" it only ever states explicitly 4 hours. But would you rule it that way?
No, nor would I allow them to get a long rest after 4 hours. The elf feature allows you to get the benefit of sleeping after 4 hours, not the benefit of long resting. Sleep is not the same as a long rest (although it is a box you need to check off during a long rest), which is why Aspect of the Moon still requires 8 hours for a long rest even though none of it is sleep.
They errata'd how long rests work relating to sleep a while back, but even their errata doesn't say that elves get shorter rests RAW. "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch." Specific exceptions to how much of that 8 hours need to be sleep are one thing (see elf, aspect of the moon, warforged, etc etc), but I have yet to see a feature that provides a specific exception to the long rest being an 8 hour stretch.
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Eh, I don't know if that's entirely true. The rules surrounding long rests are certainly pretty messy. Long Rest rules do say that characters sleep for at least 6 hours, yet other mentions of it say they sleep for 8 hours. Trance itself says this:
Emphasis mine. The whole thing contradicts with the rule "you only need to sleep for 6 hours," but the last line certainly seems to imply that they gain the full benefit of a Long Rest after only 4 hours.
That said, Aspect of the Moon does not say it only requires 4 hours for a Long Rest. It still requires 8 hours. I would say you could let them choose between 4 hours of Trancing or 8 hours of light activity. That is, of course, if you allow the 4 hour Trance to count as a full Long Rest.
Sleep is not sufficient for a long rest, though it is a necessary component of one (absent a feature that provides an exception). That last sentence in no way contradicts with any language in long rest, although it does provide a specific exception to the 6 hours of sleep rule. RAW, a long rest takes 8 hours, whether you're sleeping for 8, 6, 4, or 0 hours. RAI, that may not be the case, but they've already written long rest once and didn't take the opportunity to suggest that a long rest is shortened for elves or others not needing sleep. Aspect of the Moon pretty emphatically demonstrates that sleepless entities don't get free 0-hour long rests, or even 2-hour long rests.
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Mm, I've never seen it that way. A long rest is 8 hours, and you need to spend at least 6 of it sleeping. You can spend 8.
You say it's "a necessary component," but it is the only necessary component. "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch." Sleeping is the only thing you need to do. Trancing allows you to get the same benefit of 8 hours of sleeping in 4 hours. That's a Long Rest.
What do you mean by "they've already written long rest once?" Where?
I hate to drag SA into it (ugh), but it does say the same thing:
Addition: Trance is one of the best traits of elves. If you don't allow it to count as a full long rest, the only benefit of it is that they can spend a little bit more time on watch or doing some light activity.
Addition*2: Huh, apparently Sage Advice has changed its mind on this in recent years. What I posted above is current, but in 2015 they posted this:
Granted that's pretty contradictory, particularly the last line: "you can take a long rest and not sleep." Super untrue. They've clearly changed their minds since, and for the better. As far as I can recall, elves could Trance to shorten rests in previous editions of DnD as well.
In 2017, long rest was updated from:
to:
That errata did not go so far as to say that a character which does not need to sleep, or which sleeps faster, is entitled to a shorter long rest. As things stand:
Normal Race: 8 hour+ long rest (6 hours+ sleep, 2 hours- light activity)
Elf: 8 hour+ long rest (4 hours+ trance, RAW 2 hours- light activity/2 hours+ "awake", but probably RAI just 4 hours+ light activity)
Warforged: 8 hour+ long rest (6 hours+ motionless, 2 hours- light activity)
Warlock - Aspect of the Moon: 8 hour+ long rest (0 hours+ sleep, 8 hours+ light activity)
Warlock - The Undying 10: 8 hour+ long rest (0 hours+ sleep, RAW 2 hours- light activity/6 hours+ "awake", but probably RAI just 8 hours+ light activity)
Rogue - Revived Nature (UA): 8 hour+ long rest (4+ hours inactive, RAW 2 hours- light activity/2 hours+ "awake", but probably RAI just 4 hours+ light activity)
Potion of Watchful Rest: 8 hour+ long rest (0 hours+ sleep, 8 hours+ "awake", 2 hours- light activity)
Dream: target sleeper gets no benefit from long rest, despite sleeping.
Preparing spells for Wizard, Artificer, Cleric, and Druid: Preparing spells (part of your long rest that is not "sleep") takes 1 minute per spell level. A 20th level wizard memorizing one level-appropriate spell per spell slot would take 89 minutes (and actually could prepare a few more spells too depending on intelligence), so this is non-trivial.
Transcribing spells for Wizard: takes 2 hours per spell level, certainly can eat up a lot of time during a long rest.
Elves are not deprived of the benefit of their Trance by requiring an 8 hour rest. It frees them up to spend more time standing watch (perhaps the party would rather have the elf stand two watches and the low-wisdom fighter zero?), preparing spells, casting rituals, or whatever other light activity they want to fill their time with.
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You only need to sleep during a Long Rest. You don't need to do anything else.
"A long rest is ... at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity."
For at least 6 hours means you can do more. No more than means you can do less than it, and since there's no limit to that, it means you don't have to do it at all. Therefore, the duration of the Rest being 8 hours long and sleeping at least 6 hours are the only two requirements to take a Long Rest. Light activity is not a requirement, just an option.
This clearly means that if an elf's Trance allows them to get 8 hours of sleep in 4 hours, they can gain the benefit of a Long Rest in just 4 hours. The condition of 8 hours of sleep is met, and the duration is fulfilled. Light activity is not necessary.
Question, given the argument.
What benefit does an elf gain from being able to complete a long rest in only four hours? Unless the entire party is composed of elves, this doesn't actually add any time to the adventuring day for them unless they want to wander off and adventure solo. Worth noting is that by your interpretation, i.e. sleep being the only requirement for a long rest, an Aspect of the Moon warlock can opt to take a long rest instantaneously once per day - they do not require sleep at all and thus, by a "sleep is the only thing that makes a Long Rest" rule, they can opt for their once-per-day Long Rest pretty much whenever they need one, instantaneously.
That's clearly not correct or intended; an Aspect of the Moon warlock still needs to spend eight hours downtiming, as the invocation itself states.
I will also note that the very first line of Long Resting, which you decided to truncate very suspiciously there Jay, states the following: "A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, ..."
First thing a Long Rest states is that a Long Rest is at least eight hours long. The normal rules of a long rest are six hours of sleep and two hours of light duty, which certain species/options can change. An elf can shorten the Sleep portion of a long rest to four hours, granting them two additional hours to do other junk. A warforged remains aware of its environment while Sentry's Rest-ing, an Aspect of the Moon warlock can spend the entire rest doing whatever light stuff they like, but in no case do any of these rules override the eight-hour downtime requirement of the long rest itself. They merely change what you can do during a long rest and still benefit from it.
Please do not contact or message me.
Did you even read my post? I said that. To quote myself:
Those are the two requirements, and the only two. Trance overrules the 8 hour duration to 4 hours, though with the additional requirement that they must meditate for those 4 hours. Aspect of the Moon still requires Warlocks to take 8 hours to benefit from a Long Rest, they just don't need to sleep at all. I never denied nor ignored that. Being an Elf doesn't allow them to benefit from Aspect of the Moon in just 4 hours with Trance, because the Trance requires - obviously - entering and completing the Trance. An elven Warlock with Aspect of the Moon would need to choose whether they want to Trance to complete a Long Rest in 4 hours, or if they want to stay awake for 8 hours.
To answer your question of what benefit it would give, there are several. Going off to explore by themselves is certainly one, particularly if the party contains two or more elves, but there are many more. Downtime activities are a big one; anyone who does any kind of crafting (such as with an Herbalism Kit or Poisoner's Kit) must spend 8 hours in a day in order to gain a day of progress towards completion of crafting an item. Trance allows you to complete half of this in a Long Rest, and AotM allows you to complete it all. The elven Rogue Assassin in my campaign does this all the time.
There can also easily be situations in which the party can't spare a full 8 hours to take a rest, but they may be able to spare 4, allowing their elf Wizard to regain his spell slots.
These are just a couple examples, and the extra time for downtime activities is probably the best benefit... but that's a pretty awesome benefit.
This is not true. You do not need to do 2 hours of extra stuff; it is optional. The phrase "no more than" means exactly what it sounds like. You can do less than it, which means you can do none. If I offer you a box of cookies and say you can take "no more than 2," that doesn't mean you have to take 1 or 2. You can take 0. It doesn't say "no more than 2, but no less than 1" or anything of the sort. The two hours of light activity are not a requirement, they are an option.
Here is an old post from ENWorld on the topic. Not that I have much of a care, since most parties aren't entirely elves anyway. But, it gives some context behind the errata and the SAC entries both before the change and after. Might be useful reading for people on both sides of the argument.
No. You can either meditate for 4 hours or do light activity for 8 as a long rest.
The currently official ruling on trance is:
Man, 5e really is so funny. The things they do. What even is Sage Advice sometimes.
Sorry to repost it, but here is the current SA on this topic:
Now, it clearly says the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. The terms Sleep and Rest are used separately in the rules for resting, so the SA says that they get the Long Rest in 4 hours. They appear to have updated the rules and the SA at roughly the same time.
So why did they not actually fully clarify this in the books? Why does Trance say "after resting in this way, you gain the same benefit that a human does from 8 hours of sleep?" Why does it not say "after resting in this way, you gain the benefits of a Long Rest" or whatever? Always so flowery with the wording. Please, just write the rules the way you want them already.
basically, aspect of the moon works with an elves’ trance, like unarmored defense via monk/barbarian works with natural unarmored defense from lizardmen/tortle.
they don’t stack. You do 1 or the other.
Blank
I couldn't agree more. 5e's biggest problem is no consistent rules language.
It seems pretty clear to me that the intent of a long rest is eight hours of not-doing-other-shit. During that time, a normal critter with no other rules in place has to spend at least six sleeping and no more than two doing not-sleeping things, or their rest isn't restful enough. Elves can switch that to four and four, via Trance, because they gain the benefit of eight hours of sleep from their Trance.
Sleep =/= Rest. Oddly enough. At least in D&D language.
A Moon Tomelock can go 0-8, taking all required watches or doing whatever else strikes their fancy. A warforged has to go six hours of Sentry's Rest, but can technically be on watch that entire time since it remains at least minimally aware. The benefit is easier watches and the aforementioned light-duty opportunities, not "I can complete a long rest in less time than it takes me to short rest and thus outadventure all my buddies."
Please do not contact or message me.
SA is clear, but is not controlling of the question what is provided RAW in the rulebooks (especially since it contradicts the rulebooks). People are free to follow SAC and say that RAI elves can long rest in four hours, but should know that by doing so they're really opening a can of worms as to why warforged, warlocks, and revenant rogues don't get to follow suit. It also raises the question of why a human's long rest isn't finished in 6 hours if sleep is all that a long rest is about, since sleeping for 6 is apparently all they need. RAW, a long rest is 8 hours, and it also just so happens to be the cleanest rule to apply to a party and one I find far preferable to introducing yet another reason for the party to fight about when/why to take a rest.
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RAW, a human who sleeps for eight consecutive hours gains the benefits of a long rest. This is because they spend at least 8 hours resting and at least 6 of those hours sleeping.
RAW, an elf who trances for four hours gains the same benefits as a human who sleeps for eight, as described in the Trance feature.
If a human sleeping for 8 hours=getting a long rest, and an elf trancing for 4 hours=a human sleeping for 8 hours, then an elf trancing for 4 hours=getting a long rest.
Sigh https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necessity_and_sufficiency
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Forgive me for my diminutive intellect, sir, but I fail to see how this article is relevant to the current conversation. Perhaps you would be so kind as to elucidate further so that I might begin to fathom your superior logic.
I’m not great at formal logic either, the sigh was more about my inability to get my point across, not anyone else’s failure to understand. Sorry for my tone, that wasn’t necessary of me.
But the relevance is, you can’t long rest without sleeping (or, without a feature that replaces sleeping). But, you can sleep without long resting (victim of a dream spell, sleeping for a second time within same 24 hours that you’ve already long rested). Sleep is necessary to long rest, but not sufficient to long rest.
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