So this post is about a few things and first off the warforged from eberron: rising from the last war (here after shortened to ERLW) sucks all the flavor and fun out of the warforged races in wayfarers guide to eberron/UA: races of eberron (going to be shortened to WGE) so lets look at the two and why flavor wise the new version is bland, then what the older versions get and then the elephant in the room: AC calculation. So fist off what the new warforged get +2 to con and +1 to any score witch is...kind of sub par, they should have done +1 to con and +1 to any two scores (so could take +2 str or bump con to +2 and take the +1 str or whatever you want) . next up the first major feature Constructed Resilience witch I will compare to the WGE Warforged Resilience.
Constructed Resilience.
You were created to have remarkable fortitude, represented by the following benefits:
You have advantage on saving throws against being poisoned, and you have resistance to poison damage.
You don't need to eat, drink, or breathe.
You are immune to disease.
You don't need to sleep, and magic can't put you to sleep.
VS
Warforged Resilience.
You were created to have remarkable fortitude, represented by the following benefits:
You have advantage on saving throws against being poisoned, and you have resistance to poison damage.
You are immune to disease.
You don't need to eat, drink, or breathe.
You don't need to sleep and don't suffer the effects of exhaustion due to lack of rest, and magic can't put you to sleep.
so many people may THINK they are the same but they are not, if you look at that LAST line, it says "you don't need to sleep" but in the context compared to the WGE version YOU NEED TO LONG REST EVERY DAY as the WGE version says you don't get exhaustion from lack of rest. now game play wise it doesn't make a huge difference as most players will take a long rest when they can get it, but if you want to play a unstoppable friendly terminator you may want to skip some long rests every now and then and watch over your party as they rest, but this is also kind of strong for classes who get features or spell slots back on short rests like fighters, rogues or even warlocks. I say kind of because...your group has to rest at some point or another regardless of weather you do or not so your sitting around for up to 8 hours anyways...unless your group is all elfs or other warforged lol. to sum up, it takes away the flavor of being a machine, something build to work days or months on end without rest!
going to skip over the nest feature Sentry's Rest because it is word for word the same in both versions. and move on to the major differences beside the ability scores and AC. so the ERLW version just gets one tool or skill and a extra language witch over all with every thing else they get pretty much makes them feel like a half elf that gets less ability scores and gets a watered down version of trance. but the WGE gets 3 fun subraces! first off my favorite for strength based front liners the juggernaut (B*TCH) you get +2 str +1 con and two features the others don't: powerful build (a few other races have this, it just doubles the bonus you get for carry weight and push, pull lift checks witch is fun because at 20 strength means you can carry up too 600 pounds and push, pull lift up to 1200!) and iron fists witch is a 1d4+str bludgeoning unarmed weapon, witch is alot of fun on a fighter if you want to monk out and give someone a good slapping! these features fit well on the big boys and makes you feel strong! Moving on to the Skirmisher subrace granting you +2 dex +1 con and gives you the swift (its is kind of like the wood elf fleet of foot but in place of setting your speed to 35 it increases by 5 feet, so if your a druid and you wildshape into something with 40 feet of movement it will bump it to 45 as a wood elf would not) and light step witch does: When you are traveling alone for an extended period of time (one hour or more), you can move stealthily at a normal pace. (See chapter 8 of the Player's Handbook for information about travel pace.). it is a fun feature if you want to play the scout and venture up on ahead of your group while being stealthy! and lastly the Envoy subrace they get +1 con and +1 to any unique two scores for features first off you get Specialized Design witch nets you (much like the WRLW version) nets you one skill, one tool proficiency and one language, this is great for bards, rogues, druids, artificers and so on that like using tools and having skills but now here is the super fun feature Integrated Tool! the way it works is you choose one tool you have proficiency with and builds it into your body (also gives you expertise with it witch is not really OP considering how little you use tools minus for roleplay reasons so..yay role play expertise!) this is a wonderful tool for people who love roleplay! think of a warforged bard who has there favored instrument BUILT into there body, or a forge cleric who has there blacksmith hammer and bellows built into your arms and there hands are reinforced to withstand the heat of forged to act as tongs! this feature is alot of fun and can be used in as many ways as there are tool kits!
Now having covered all that before I move into the "why the AC is stronger with the ERLW version" I would like to say if you still don't like it, don't let your players use the ERLW version anyways, just take version of Integrated Protection from ERLW version and swap it out for the WGE version of the feature, that way your players get a fun unique version of a warforged they can have alot of fun with and lets them play warforged as pretty much any class they want!, even a warofgred cleric that is nothing but there wooden core trying to get back to nature is cool!
now moving on, the AC first off I will post the ERLW version of Integrated Protection then the WGE version of the feature, explain why the ERLW version of it is the stronger of the two and why NEATER of them is "over powered"
Your body has built-in defensive layers, which can be enhanced with armor:
You gain a +1 bonus to Armor Class.
You can don only armor with which you have proficiency. To don armor, you must incorporate it into your body over the course of 1 hour, during which you remain in contact with the armor. To doff armor, you must spend 1 hour removing it. You can rest while donning or doffing armor in this way.
While you live, your armor can't be removed from your body against your will.
VS
Your body has built-in protective layers, which determine your Armor Class. You gain no benefit from wearing armor, but if you are using a shield, you apply its bonus as normal.
You can alter your body to enter different defensive modes; each time you finish a long rest, choose one mode to adopt from the Integrated Protection table, provided you meet the mode's prerequisite.
Integrated protection
Mode
Prerequisite
Armor Class
Darkwood core (unarmored)
None
11 + your Dexterity modifier (add proficiency bonus if proficient with light armor)
Composite plating (armor)
Medium armor proficiency
13 + your Dexterity modifier (maximum of 2) + your proficiency bonus
Heavy plating (armor)
Heavy armor proficiency
16 + your proficiency bonus; disadvantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks
so I am going to start off by pointing out the fact with the fact that the ERLW version gets a +1 AC and can use armor after fusing with it over a short rest and the WGE version "gain no benefit from wearing armor". this means the ERLW version gets +1 AC no matter what and can use magic armor with cool effects and the WGE does not, this may not seem like much but if you choose to make a monk, barbarian or moon druid the WRLW version gets the +1 to there AC even if they use there unarmored defense feature or wildshape, this also effects any class that uses mage armor as if a WGE warforge uses mage armor it will set there AC to 13+dex as a WRLW warforged will effectively get 14+dex with the mage armor. with the way 5e difficulty progresses the +1 AC and ability to use armor will put players slightly ahead of the curb when compared to other races, this also effects the features they can use, for instance any class that can pick a fighting style, the ERLW warforged will be able to take a benefit from taking the defense style (+1 AC when wearing armor) while the WGE will not as they gain no benefit from wearing armor. Next up lets look at the AC numbers themselves (note that for the WGE version you have to actully have proficiency IN that armor in order to add your proficiency bonus to your AC) at the start of the game (levels 1-4) the WGE have a very strong start (going off point buy numbers) having 14-16 AC in light armor (first number assumes 16 dex without proficiency second number assumes proficiency with light armor) , 17 AC in medium armor and 18 in heavy armor, now looking at the ERLW version they will have 14 AC in no armor, 15-16 AC in light armor (once again assuming 16 dex, first number is normal leather armor second is studded leather armor), 17 in medium armor (assuming scale mail with 14 dex, it would be 18 if half plate) or 17 in heavy (assuming chain mail) these numbers do not include benefiting from things like defensive fighting style or other various feats one could get. as you can see they are pretty even with a difference of 1 AC at most. But not moving on into what most consider the second tier of play the ERLW will pull ahead being able to use armor, while the WGE AC will go up by one for all groups, this will not be the cause is using unarmored defense, wildshape or mage armor, furthermore at this part of the game you can assume players will start finding +1 items including shields and maybe armor (I am aware +1 armor is rarer than other items) but this also gives the ERLW access to very strong (yet uncommon rarity) armor like adamantine or Mithral armor, or even armor that grants some sort of resistance, more over shortly after level 5 players should start to be able to buy things like platemail (unless your a DM that is really stingy with gold or when you do a random loot roll and plate pops up you just go NOPE NOT GIVING THAT TO THEM) boosting further than the WGE warforged. now looking down the road (having both had a player play as a WGE warforged in one of my games AND been a player in a game playing a warforged) when you start to get to levels 8+ when everyone has +1 armor, rings and cloaks of protection and so on there OMG CRAZY HIGH AC isn't that high, its pretty much on par, oh the warforged fighter has 19 AC OMG SO OVER POWERED...not really, most heavy armor classes at level 8+ will have 20+ AC, and if you try to move it down the line to level 17+ where they get 22 AC, that is pretty much right on par, same as platemail +3! as the ERLW version will still pull ahead if just by 1 so its actually well round and pretty even on both sides with the ERLW version beating out the WGE version by just one. I will say at level 17+ the light armor warforged from WGE get a little nuts, 17+dex (assuming your level 17 rogue has 20 dex that is 22 AC, same as plate lol) but looking over at the ERLW version....a level 20 barbarian would have 25 AC without a shield, that is a little scary! but on both of those notes notes: the players are level 17+ all the creatures will have like a +10-15 to hit, that 22 AC isn't going to mean alot when a creature rolls a 12 or higher!
So that brings all this to a close, thank you for reading and I hope I changed your mind a bit at least on the flavor for your players! as stated earlier allow your players to at least use the features from the subraces and swap our there AC feature if you think the WGE version is too strong for your tastes! The point of D&D is to sit down with your friends and have fun and the ERLW version of the warforged race really waters down you or your players fantasy of being a fantasy robot! so use the subrace features, give them something unique and fun! don't give them a worse version of half elf to play as! hope you had fun and made you think about a few things about mechanics of there features! and kept in mind on why the WGE is very strong starting off but not in the mid and end game!
My only real complaint is the removal of the subclasses. They added variety (even if I did only play envoy).
The resilience requiring rest makes some sense from a game balance standpoint (coffeelock and whatnot).
The new armor is also actually more balanced, even if it now has a higher maximum. It is now dependant on what armors you are able to find/buy instead of being free plate that gets a +1 every 4 levels (capping at +4 plate).
Potentially unpopular view - "Mechanics don't enable roleplay as much as they restrict it."
That said, I am not going to tell you, or anyone else, that they are playing the game wrong. What I am going to do is explain my own perspective.
Warforged are great! I've played a couple and they were wildly different in character. The whole thing with being a living construct is an amazing differential from any of the other races.
I also found over years of playing D&D and other tabletop games, that the more detailed rules for something are, that in general they restrict the potential for imagination and roleplay, rather than generate new potential. Maybe I am just lucky with the people I usually play with - they could take a system where nobody has stats and just play and I am certain we would have a lot of fun (in fact we played a LOT of Amber diceless roleplay a while back. Check out the concept if you haven't before).
My point is, that I find it odd when I see someone say something like the change to Warforged has removed their flavor. The flavor is still there and fully intact! It's the lore, the background to the campaign. If you want to roleplay that your warforged has integrated thieves tools, then just tell your DM that's what you want. It doesn't need rules and game mechanics for that to happen. Most DMs are more than happy to help people expand their character with interesting things.
Summarising, I am not saying that complaints aren't valid - use your imagination though, find what you want and how to make it happen and have fun!
Well a races features really aid in roleplay a great deal, for instance the elfs trance feature is not just a way to get a long rest in four hours, it has HEAVY lore implications!
The trance is a deep and meaningful thing to elfs as it connects them to there immortal souls and allows then to relive events from there previous lives when they are young and they finish reliving there past lives they can review the events of the day, unless your a drow then all your trance brings is darkness. It also reflects there connections to the fey in there first lifetime's showing that they have no need for sleep and even the most powerful magic can't put them to sleep because of there deep connection to there creator.
Now if you want to make a warrior warforged and be big and scary...you can't really do that with the ERLW version, they will be on par with humans or half elfs and you wont feel like a machine in the game, the juggernaut not only makes you feel bigger and stronger with the powerful build and iron fists features.
Now pressing the issue more a players features and skills from there race, background, class and subclass enabled the wat you roleplay, for instance (one of my own characters mind you) a wood elf druid hermit living in the jungle searching for new and exotic herbs to make potions with in order to cure a disease he died from in a past life that caused him to parish in horrible pain. As you can see I utilized the elfs trance feature to have a connection to his past life and the hermits discovery feature to effectively turn him into a alchemist living alone looking for new medicines. Couldn't do that if he lacked any of those features
You still can have 20 AC at level 1 as a warforged: Warforged Fighter with Defense Fighting Style: 16 (chainmail) + 2 (shield) + 1 (warforged racial) + 1 (Defense).
A bit late on this question, but I recently started playing a warforged and this post discusses WGE. Anyway, I have a point of issue regarding armor: "To don armor, you must incorporate it into your body over the course of 1 hour, during which you remain in contact with the armor." What exactly do they mean by incorporated? Does it get absorbed into your body, or mold itself onto your skin? If the latter, does this mean you can't have an amulet/necklace, stashed purse or clothes under it? Seems a bit limiting. Also, does incorporated armor count as carried weight or is it just added onto your base weight?
A bit late on this question, but I recently started playing a warforged and this post discusses WGE. Anyway, I have a point of issue regarding armor: "To don armor, you must incorporate it into your body over the course of 1 hour, during which you remain in contact with the armor." What exactly do they mean by incorporated? Does it get absorbed into your body, or mold itself onto your skin? If the latter, does this mean you can't have an amulet/necklace, stashed purse or clothes under it? Seems a bit limiting. Also, does incorporated armor count as carried weight or is it just added onto your base weight?
Thanks!
it like melds into you, like your living metal attaches itself to the armor plates or the wood in your pulls it close and makes it a part of you, at least for a little while! but yeah that +1 ac you get is still crazy strong more so if you pair it up as a artificer , starting at level 2 you can have 20 AC if you have scale mail a shield and 14 dex, when you get the repulser shield as well as a ring and cloak of protection along with half plate your AC start getting really crazy and on top of that you can cast haste on yourself for another 2 AC, if your a battle smith that is 3 swings a round (4 if you count your steel defender) with like 25 AC AND you can cast shield/absorb elements so you can bump yourself up to 30 ac, later on at level 14 + when your infusions become +2 you start getting close to the "they need a crit to hit me" zone, so half plate +2, a +2 shield, your warforged +1 AC, haste, shield, 14 dex and a ring/cloak of protection = 28 AC or 33 if you shield
I'm currently playing a Warforged and it's great. I'm disappointed that they removed the no exhaustion it made since being part machine that you wouldn't get exhausted. The armor though with adding your proficiency bonus would be a tad op especially since you could coat your self in mithril and remove the stealth dis advantage. It's still a great race with a lot of passive perks.
I'm currently playing a Warforged and it's great. I'm disappointed that they removed the no exhaustion it made since being part machine that you wouldn't get exhausted. The armor though with adding your proficiency bonus would be a tad op especially since you could coat your self in mithril and remove the stealth dis advantage. It's still a great race with a lot of passive perks.
With the older warforged there is no getting around the disadvantage, coating yourself in mithril wont work, the reason it works with the armor is that it is LIGHTER, coated yourself in more metal makes you HEAVYER, also I covered this already but the AC is not OP it is slightly ahead of the curb for low levels and slightly below the curb at higher levels
having 20ac at level 1 isn't slightly ahead of the curb lol. End game having 27+ac isn't below the curb either lol. Would also be up to the dm if he allowed you to switch your armor plating to mithral armor variant could totally be done with an experienced artificer. And if you find a dragon mask and the artificer buffs the items you already got you could be well over 30ac. Pretty sure your average lvl 15-20 don't have 25+ac or even over 20. They definitely could have worked more into the lore with them having a need to rest since they took out not getting exhaustion points. But mine is going to be a fighter paladin which is going to make for some sick combos.
also I covered this already but the AC is not OP it is slightly ahead of the curb for low levels and slightly below the curb at higher levels
It works out to +4 studded leather, +5 breastplate, or +4 plate at level 17. Which curb is that supposed to be behind?
It was technically possible to make specific multiclassed builds that could have more AC than UA warforged, but a warforged would have it's high AC without trying (therefore affording more opportunities to exceed the min-maxed AC character at anything else).
Thanks for the replies! I understand the armor's "defensive" aspects, I was just questioning the physical dynamics. I'll assume then that the integration of the armor goes towards body weight and not carried weight and that due to the way it "adheres" to you that you are unable to have anything between you and the armor, to include clothes, jewelry, stashed items, etc...
Integrated protection is the same as wearing the armor, it just prevents it from being removed unwillingly.
I wonder how frequent a problem that has been in D&D to warrant a solution.
I doubt it's there as a solution to a problem, it's just a style thing. "Unlike normal people who strap their armor on, I'm hardcore and attach it with bolts." It doesn't look like it's actually costing anything, though since there's no official build system for balancing races that's not possible to determine directly.
Immunity to Exhaustion was OP, given how debilitating that condition is in 5E. No wonder it got removed.
They were never immune to exhaustion, they just didn't get exhaustion from lack of rest/sleep (which is an optional rule from XGtE that still doesn't effect them since they don't sleep). They could still get exhausted from harsh environments or effects.
So this post is about a few things and first off the warforged from eberron: rising from the last war (here after shortened to ERLW) sucks all the flavor and fun out of the warforged races in wayfarers guide to eberron/UA: races of eberron (going to be shortened to WGE) so lets look at the two and why flavor wise the new version is bland, then what the older versions get and then the elephant in the room: AC calculation.
So fist off what the new warforged get +2 to con and +1 to any score witch is...kind of sub par, they should have done +1 to con and +1 to any two scores (so could take +2 str or bump con to +2 and take the +1 str or whatever you want) .
next up the first major feature Constructed Resilience witch I will compare to the WGE Warforged Resilience.
Constructed Resilience.
You were created to have remarkable fortitude, represented by the following benefits:
VS
Warforged Resilience.
You were created to have remarkable fortitude, represented by the following benefits:
- You have advantage on saving throws against being poisoned, and you have resistance to poison damage.
- You are immune to disease.
- You don't need to eat, drink, or breathe.
- You don't need to sleep and don't suffer the effects of exhaustion due to lack of rest, and magic can't put you to sleep.
so many people may THINK they are the same but they are not, if you look at that LAST line, it says "you don't need to sleep" but in the context compared to the WGE version YOU NEED TO LONG REST EVERY DAY as the WGE version says you don't get exhaustion from lack of rest. now game play wise it doesn't make a huge difference as most players will take a long rest when they can get it, but if you want to play a unstoppable friendly terminator you may want to skip some long rests every now and then and watch over your party as they rest, but this is also kind of strong for classes who get features or spell slots back on short rests like fighters, rogues or even warlocks. I say kind of because...your group has to rest at some point or another regardless of weather you do or not so your sitting around for up to 8 hours anyways...unless your group is all elfs or other warforged lol. to sum up, it takes away the flavor of being a machine, something build to work days or months on end without rest!going to skip over the nest feature Sentry's Rest because it is word for word the same in both versions. and move on to the major differences beside the ability scores and AC. so the ERLW version just gets one tool or skill and a extra language witch over all with every thing else they get pretty much makes them feel like a half elf that gets less ability scores and gets a watered down version of trance. but the WGE gets 3 fun subraces!
first off my favorite for strength based front liners the juggernaut (B*TCH) you get +2 str +1 con and two features the others don't: powerful build (a few other races have this, it just doubles the bonus you get for carry weight and push, pull lift checks witch is fun because at 20 strength means you can carry up too 600 pounds and push, pull lift up to 1200!) and iron fists witch is a 1d4+str bludgeoning unarmed weapon, witch is alot of fun on a fighter if you want to monk out and give someone a good slapping! these features fit well on the big boys and makes you feel strong!
Moving on to the Skirmisher subrace granting you +2 dex +1 con and gives you the swift (its is kind of like the wood elf fleet of foot but in place of setting your speed to 35 it increases by 5 feet, so if your a druid and you wildshape into something with 40 feet of movement it will bump it to 45 as a wood elf would not) and light step witch does: When you are traveling alone for an extended period of time (one hour or more), you can move stealthily at a normal pace. (See chapter 8 of the Player's Handbook for information about travel pace.). it is a fun feature if you want to play the scout and venture up on ahead of your group while being stealthy!
and lastly the Envoy subrace they get +1 con and +1 to any unique two scores for features first off you get Specialized Design witch nets you (much like the WRLW version) nets you one skill, one tool proficiency and one language, this is great for bards, rogues, druids, artificers and so on that like using tools and having skills but now here is the super fun feature Integrated Tool! the way it works is you choose one tool you have proficiency with and builds it into your body (also gives you expertise with it witch is not really OP considering how little you use tools minus for roleplay reasons so..yay role play expertise!) this is a wonderful tool for people who love roleplay! think of a warforged bard who has there favored instrument BUILT into there body, or a forge cleric who has there blacksmith hammer and bellows built into your arms and there hands are reinforced to withstand the heat of forged to act as tongs! this feature is alot of fun and can be used in as many ways as there are tool kits!
Now having covered all that before I move into the "why the AC is stronger with the ERLW version" I would like to say if you still don't like it, don't let your players use the ERLW version anyways, just take version of Integrated Protection from ERLW version and swap it out for the WGE version of the feature, that way your players get a fun unique version of a warforged they can have alot of fun with and lets them play warforged as pretty much any class they want!, even a warofgred cleric that is nothing but there wooden core trying to get back to nature is cool!
now moving on, the AC first off I will post the ERLW version of Integrated Protection then the WGE version of the feature, explain why the ERLW version of it is the stronger of the two and why NEATER of them is "over powered"
Your body has built-in defensive layers, which can be enhanced with armor:
- You gain a +1 bonus to Armor Class.
- You can don only armor with which you have proficiency. To don armor, you must incorporate it into your body over the course of 1 hour, during which you remain in contact with the armor. To doff armor, you must spend 1 hour removing it. You can rest while donning or doffing armor in this way.
- While you live, your armor can't be removed from your body against your will.
Integrated protection
Mode
Prerequisite
Armor Class
Darkwood core (unarmored)
None
11 + your Dexterity modifier (add proficiency bonus if proficient with light armor)
Composite plating (armor)
Medium armor proficiency
13 + your Dexterity modifier (maximum of 2) + your proficiency bonus
Heavy plating (armor)
Heavy armor proficiency
16 + your proficiency bonus; disadvantage on Dexterity (Stealth) checks
so I am going to start off by pointing out the fact with the fact that the ERLW version gets a +1 AC and can use armor after fusing with it over a short rest and the WGE version "gain no benefit from wearing armor". this means the ERLW version gets +1 AC no matter what and can use magic armor with cool effects and the WGE does not, this may not seem like much but if you choose to make a monk, barbarian or moon druid the WRLW version gets the +1 to there AC even if they use there unarmored defense feature or wildshape, this also effects any class that uses mage armor as if a WGE warforge uses mage armor it will set there AC to 13+dex as a WRLW warforged will effectively get 14+dex with the mage armor. with the way 5e difficulty progresses the +1 AC and ability to use armor will put players slightly ahead of the curb when compared to other races, this also effects the features they can use, for instance any class that can pick a fighting style, the ERLW warforged will be able to take a benefit from taking the defense style (+1 AC when wearing armor) while the WGE will not as they gain no benefit from wearing armor.VS
Your body has built-in protective layers, which determine your Armor Class. You gain no benefit from wearing armor, but if you are using a shield, you apply its bonus as normal.
You can alter your body to enter different defensive modes; each time you finish a long rest, choose one mode to adopt from the Integrated Protection table, provided you meet the mode's prerequisite.
Next up lets look at the AC numbers themselves (note that for the WGE version you have to actully have proficiency IN that armor in order to add your proficiency bonus to your AC) at the start of the game (levels 1-4) the WGE have a very strong start (going off point buy numbers) having 14-16 AC in light armor (first number assumes 16 dex without proficiency second number assumes proficiency with light armor) , 17 AC in medium armor and 18 in heavy armor, now looking at the ERLW version they will have 14 AC in no armor, 15-16 AC in light armor (once again assuming 16 dex, first number is normal leather armor second is studded leather armor), 17 in medium armor (assuming scale mail with 14 dex, it would be 18 if half plate) or 17 in heavy (assuming chain mail) these numbers do not include benefiting from things like defensive fighting style or other various feats one could get. as you can see they are pretty even with a difference of 1 AC at most. But not moving on into what most consider the second tier of play the ERLW will pull ahead being able to use armor, while the WGE AC will go up by one for all groups, this will not be the cause is using unarmored defense, wildshape or mage armor, furthermore at this part of the game you can assume players will start finding +1 items including shields and maybe armor (I am aware +1 armor is rarer than other items) but this also gives the ERLW access to very strong (yet uncommon rarity) armor like adamantine or Mithral armor, or even armor that grants some sort of resistance, more over shortly after level 5 players should start to be able to buy things like platemail (unless your a DM that is really stingy with gold or when you do a random loot roll and plate pops up you just go NOPE NOT GIVING THAT TO THEM) boosting further than the WGE warforged.
now looking down the road (having both had a player play as a WGE warforged in one of my games AND been a player in a game playing a warforged) when you start to get to levels 8+ when everyone has +1 armor, rings and cloaks of protection and so on there OMG CRAZY HIGH AC isn't that high, its pretty much on par, oh the warforged fighter has 19 AC OMG SO OVER POWERED...not really, most heavy armor classes at level 8+ will have 20+ AC, and if you try to move it down the line to level 17+ where they get 22 AC, that is pretty much right on par, same as platemail +3! as the ERLW version will still pull ahead if just by 1 so its actually well round and pretty even on both sides with the ERLW version beating out the WGE version by just one. I will say at level 17+ the light armor warforged from WGE get a little nuts, 17+dex (assuming your level 17 rogue has 20 dex that is 22 AC, same as plate lol) but looking over at the ERLW version....a level 20 barbarian would have 25 AC without a shield, that is a little scary! but on both of those notes notes: the players are level 17+ all the creatures will have like a +10-15 to hit, that 22 AC isn't going to mean alot when a creature rolls a 12 or higher!
So that brings all this to a close, thank you for reading and I hope I changed your mind a bit at least on the flavor for your players! as stated earlier allow your players to at least use the features from the subraces and swap our there AC feature if you think the WGE version is too strong for your tastes! The point of D&D is to sit down with your friends and have fun and the ERLW version of the warforged race really waters down you or your players fantasy of being a fantasy robot! so use the subrace features, give them something unique and fun! don't give them a worse version of half elf to play as! hope you had fun and made you think about a few things about mechanics of there features! and kept in mind on why the WGE is very strong starting off but not in the mid and end game!
My only real complaint is the removal of the subclasses. They added variety (even if I did only play envoy).
The resilience requiring rest makes some sense from a game balance standpoint (coffeelock and whatnot).
The new armor is also actually more balanced, even if it now has a higher maximum. It is now dependant on what armors you are able to find/buy instead of being free plate that gets a +1 every 4 levels (capping at +4 plate).
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
D&D Beyond FoundersPotentially unpopular view - "Mechanics don't enable roleplay as much as they restrict it."
That said, I am not going to tell you, or anyone else, that they are playing the game wrong. What I am going to do is explain my own perspective.
Warforged are great! I've played a couple and they were wildly different in character. The whole thing with being a living construct is an amazing differential from any of the other races.
I also found over years of playing D&D and other tabletop games, that the more detailed rules for something are, that in general they restrict the potential for imagination and roleplay, rather than generate new potential. Maybe I am just lucky with the people I usually play with - they could take a system where nobody has stats and just play and I am certain we would have a lot of fun (in fact we played a LOT of Amber diceless roleplay a while back. Check out the concept if you haven't before).
My point is, that I find it odd when I see someone say something like the change to Warforged has removed their flavor. The flavor is still there and fully intact! It's the lore, the background to the campaign. If you want to roleplay that your warforged has integrated thieves tools, then just tell your DM that's what you want. It doesn't need rules and game mechanics for that to happen. Most DMs are more than happy to help people expand their character with interesting things.
Summarising, I am not saying that complaints aren't valid - use your imagination though, find what you want and how to make it happen and have fun!
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Well a races features really aid in roleplay a great deal, for instance the elfs trance feature is not just a way to get a long rest in four hours, it has HEAVY lore implications!
The trance is a deep and meaningful thing to elfs as it connects them to there immortal souls and allows then to relive events from there previous lives when they are young and they finish reliving there past lives they can review the events of the day, unless your a drow then all your trance brings is darkness. It also reflects there connections to the fey in there first lifetime's showing that they have no need for sleep and even the most powerful magic can't put them to sleep because of there deep connection to there creator.
Now if you want to make a warrior warforged and be big and scary...you can't really do that with the ERLW version, they will be on par with humans or half elfs and you wont feel like a machine in the game, the juggernaut not only makes you feel bigger and stronger with the powerful build and iron fists features.
Now pressing the issue more a players features and skills from there race, background, class and subclass enabled the wat you roleplay, for instance (one of my own characters mind you) a wood elf druid hermit living in the jungle searching for new and exotic herbs to make potions with in order to cure a disease he died from in a past life that caused him to parish in horrible pain. As you can see I utilized the elfs trance feature to have a connection to his past life and the hermits discovery feature to effectively turn him into a alchemist living alone looking for new medicines. Couldn't do that if he lacked any of those features
You still can have 20 AC at level 1 as a warforged: Warforged Fighter with Defense Fighting Style: 16 (chainmail) + 2 (shield) + 1 (warforged racial) + 1 (Defense).
A bit late on this question, but I recently started playing a warforged and this post discusses WGE. Anyway, I have a point of issue regarding armor: "To don armor, you must incorporate it into your body over the course of 1 hour, during which you remain in contact with the armor." What exactly do they mean by incorporated? Does it get absorbed into your body, or mold itself onto your skin? If the latter, does this mean you can't have an amulet/necklace, stashed purse or clothes under it? Seems a bit limiting. Also, does incorporated armor count as carried weight or is it just added onto your base weight?
Thanks!
it like melds into you, like your living metal attaches itself to the armor plates or the wood in your pulls it close and makes it a part of you, at least for a little while! but yeah that +1 ac you get is still crazy strong more so if you pair it up as a artificer , starting at level 2 you can have 20 AC if you have scale mail a shield and 14 dex, when you get the repulser shield as well as a ring and cloak of protection along with half plate your AC start getting really crazy and on top of that you can cast haste on yourself for another 2 AC, if your a battle smith that is 3 swings a round (4 if you count your steel defender) with like 25 AC AND you can cast shield/absorb elements so you can bump yourself up to 30 ac, later on at level 14 + when your infusions become +2 you start getting close to the "they need a crit to hit me" zone, so half plate +2, a +2 shield, your warforged +1 AC, haste, shield, 14 dex and a ring/cloak of protection = 28 AC or 33 if you shield
I'm currently playing a Warforged and it's great. I'm disappointed that they removed the no exhaustion it made since being part machine that you wouldn't get exhausted. The armor though with adding your proficiency bonus would be a tad op especially since you could coat your self in mithril and remove the stealth dis advantage. It's still a great race with a lot of passive perks.
With the older warforged there is no getting around the disadvantage, coating yourself in mithril wont work, the reason it works with the armor is that it is LIGHTER, coated yourself in more metal makes you HEAVYER, also I covered this already but the AC is not OP it is slightly ahead of the curb for low levels and slightly below the curb at higher levels
having 20ac at level 1 isn't slightly ahead of the curb lol. End game having 27+ac isn't below the curb either lol. Would also be up to the dm if he allowed you to switch your armor plating to mithral armor variant could totally be done with an experienced artificer. And if you find a dragon mask and the artificer buffs the items you already got you could be well over 30ac. Pretty sure your average lvl 15-20 don't have 25+ac or even over 20. They definitely could have worked more into the lore with them having a need to rest since they took out not getting exhaustion points. But mine is going to be a fighter paladin which is going to make for some sick combos.
It works out to +4 studded leather, +5 breastplate, or +4 plate at level 17. Which curb is that supposed to be behind?
It was technically possible to make specific multiclassed builds that could have more AC than UA warforged, but a warforged would have it's high AC without trying (therefore affording more opportunities to exceed the min-maxed AC character at anything else).
Thanks for the replies! I understand the armor's "defensive" aspects, I was just questioning the physical dynamics. I'll assume then that the integration of the armor goes towards body weight and not carried weight and that due to the way it "adheres" to you that you are unable to have anything between you and the armor, to include clothes, jewelry, stashed items, etc...
I'm assuming that a Warforged integrating heavy armor would still need to meet the armor's strength requirment, correct?
To not have it's speed reduced, yes.
Integrated protection is the same as wearing the armor, it just prevents it from being removed unwillingly.
I wonder how frequent a problem that has been in D&D to warrant a solution.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Especially considering heavy armour takes 5 minutes to doff.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Definitely not often, but there are probably some prison scenarios.
I doubt it's there as a solution to a problem, it's just a style thing. "Unlike normal people who strap their armor on, I'm hardcore and attach it with bolts." It doesn't look like it's actually costing anything, though since there's no official build system for balancing races that's not possible to determine directly.
Immunity to Exhaustion was OP, given how debilitating that condition is in 5E. No wonder it got removed.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
They were never immune to exhaustion, they just didn't get exhaustion from lack of rest/sleep (which is an optional rule from XGtE that still doesn't effect them since they don't sleep). They could still get exhausted from harsh environments or effects.