For an encounter in a homebrew setting I’m planning on having one of the bosses get banished by a teammate to outlast the effects of our hexalidin’s (hexblade paladin) curses. The question I have is: can things or people interact with him in the place he was banished to. For example can he prepare a space to be banished and have a healer prepared for him to get a safe heal mid-way through the fight or have there been statements that would refute this line of thinking
Sort of. It depends on the type of creature. Creatures native to whatever plane they are banished from get sent to a demiplane (presumably an empty one created by the spell).
Only creatures native to a different plane get sent to that plane (which is populated with creatures and items). The spell isn't specific about where in that plane they get sent. It could be random, it could be the "entrance" to the plane, it could be the last spot they were in before they left. Up to DM.
In general NPCs can have magic unavailable to PCs. Case in point, liches. So just say the BBEGs buddy casts "a spell" and the BBEG disappears. You don't have to explain to the players which spell or how exactly the mechanics work.
If you're dead set on following PC rules, you could use a preset rope trick behind a pillar or something for the BBEG to slip into unseen. You could also try a preset tiny hut. If I were a BBEG, I would definitely employ a wizard to cast tiny hut every 8 hours.
For an encounter in a homebrew setting I’m planning on having one of the bosses get banished by a teammate to outlast the effects of our hexalidin’s (hexblade paladin) curses. The question I have is: can things or people interact with him in the place he was banished to. For example can he prepare a space to be banished and have a healer prepared for him to get a safe heal mid-way through the fight or have there been statements that would refute this line of thinking
specifically for banishment: for one. Was does the hexblade have in his possession that your boss truly truly hates and despises. For the spell cost to cast? I see many a DM gloss over and just allow banish to banish no matter what. And that’s not how it works.
specifically for banishment: for one. Was does the hexblade have in his possession that your boss truly truly hates and despises. For the spell cost to cast? I see many a DM gloss over and just allow banish to banish no matter what. And that’s not how it works.
The caster is wearing a grey robe with brown boots--a very distasteful fashion choice.
For an encounter in a homebrew setting I’m planning on having one of the bosses get banished by a teammate to outlast the effects of our hexalidin’s (hexblade paladin) curses. The question I have is: can things or people interact with him in the place he was banished to. For example can he prepare a space to be banished and have a healer prepared for him to get a safe heal mid-way through the fight or have there been statements that would refute this line of thinking
specifically for banishment: for one. Was does the hexblade have in his possession that your boss truly truly hates and despises. For the spell cost to cast? I see many a DM gloss over and just allow banish to banish no matter what. And that’s not how it works.
There is no material cost so material components can be ignored if the caster has a component pouch or relevant focus. A hexblade weapon works as an arcane focus for warlock magic. Paladins and clerics can use holy focuses - like an emblem and don't even need to "handle" it, just have it on show.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
For an encounter in a homebrew setting I’m planning on having one of the bosses get banished by a teammate to outlast the effects of our hexalidin’s (hexblade paladin) curses. The question I have is: can things or people interact with him in the place he was banished to. For example can he prepare a space to be banished and have a healer prepared for him to get a safe heal mid-way through the fight or have there been statements that would refute this line of thinking
specifically for banishment: for one. Was does the hexblade have in his possession that your boss truly truly hates and despises. For the spell cost to cast? I see many a DM gloss over and just allow banish to banish no matter what. And that’s not how it works.
There is no material cost so material components can be ignored if the caster has a component pouch or relevant focus. A hexblade weapon works as an arcane focus for warlock magic. Paladins and clerics can use holy focuses - like an emblem and don't even need to "handle" it, just have it on show.
Components: V, S, M (an item distasteful to the target)
so... you carry around items distasteful to specific people in your component pouches? How convenient.
your focus lets you bypass this? How convenient.
does my component pouch or my focus let me bypass knowing a Demon’s true name then? —- same concept.
specifically for banishment: for one. Was does the hexblade have in his possession that your boss truly truly hates and despises. For the spell cost to cast? I see many a DM gloss over and just allow banish to banish no matter what. And that’s not how it works.
The caster is wearing a grey robe with brown boots--a very distasteful fashion choice.
Stretching... possible. IF the target wears clothes themselves, and cares about fashion.
Some NPCs do fancy themselves Tim Gunn. So... I can’t argue that, even though you were trolling.
For an encounter in a homebrew setting I’m planning on having one of the bosses get banished by a teammate to outlast the effects of our hexalidin’s (hexblade paladin) curses. The question I have is: can things or people interact with him in the place he was banished to. For example can he prepare a space to be banished and have a healer prepared for him to get a safe heal mid-way through the fight or have there been statements that would refute this line of thinking
specifically for banishment: for one. Was does the hexblade have in his possession that your boss truly truly hates and despises. For the spell cost to cast? I see many a DM gloss over and just allow banish to banish no matter what. And that’s not how it works.
There is no material cost so material components can be ignored if the caster has a component pouch or relevant focus. A hexblade weapon works as an arcane focus for warlock magic. Paladins and clerics can use holy focuses - like an emblem and don't even need to "handle" it, just have it on show.
Components: V, S, M (an item distasteful to the target)
so... you carry around items distasteful to specific people in your component pouches? How convenient.
your focus lets you bypass this? How convenient.
does my component pouch or my focus let me bypass knowing a Demon’s true name then? —- same concept.
🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
I didn't make the rules. ANd while you're free to change rules for your game, most choose not to for this case.
But the idea is that yes, a component pouch will have whatever you just so happen to need that doesn't have a gold cost. Game logic, not real world. And a lot of people use focuses instead anyway. As I said, the hexblade's well hexblade is such a focus.
The true name thing is an invalid argument - no official spell requires a demon's name as a material component. It's not even required as a verbal component, either.
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For an encounter in a homebrew setting I’m planning on having one of the bosses get banished by a teammate to outlast the effects of our hexalidin’s (hexblade paladin) curses. The question I have is: can things or people interact with him in the place he was banished to. For example can he prepare a space to be banished and have a healer prepared for him to get a safe heal mid-way through the fight or have there been statements that would refute this line of thinking
specifically for banishment: for one. Was does the hexblade have in his possession that your boss truly truly hates and despises. For the spell cost to cast? I see many a DM gloss over and just allow banish to banish no matter what. And that’s not how it works.
There is no material cost so material components can be ignored if the caster has a component pouch or relevant focus. A hexblade weapon works as an arcane focus for warlock magic. Paladins and clerics can use holy focuses - like an emblem and don't even need to "handle" it, just have it on show.
Components: V, S, M (an item distasteful to the target)
so... you carry around items distasteful to specific people in your component pouches? How convenient.
your focus lets you bypass this? How convenient.
does my component pouch or my focus let me bypass knowing a Demon’s true name then? —- same concept.
🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
I didn't make the rules. ANd while you're free to change rules for your game, most choose not to for this case.
But the idea is that yes, a component pouch will have whatever you just so happen to need that doesn't have a gold cost. Game logic, not real world. And a lot of people use focuses instead anyway. As I said, the hexblade's well hexblade is such a focus.
The true name thing is an invalid argument - no official spell requires a demon's name as a material component. It's not even required as a verbal component, either.
Last paragraph.
point taken. That’s not even a component. And can prevent a spell from happening.
so... 2nd paragraph. “Game logic” your component pouch...
Type: Adventuring Gear Cost: 25 gpWeight: 2 lbs
A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a spell's description).
contains an INFINITE NUMBER OF POUNDSNOF RANDOM COMPONENTS, and values way more than 25g.
as you said: people can run games however they want. And you can homebrew your component pouches into bag of holdings for magic ingredients if you wish. But I tend to stay closer to the PhB.
read the pouch. Does it say it “contains” the components ahead of time? Or that it *could* potentially hold them for you?
edit: “compartment to hold”
to hold... future tense
holding... present tense...
you have an empty bag that you need to fill. But sure. I am Homebrewing it compared to you.
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
The point of pouches and foci are so you can ignore meeting the material component requirements as long as you have them. The intent is so these can be dismissed to streamline the gameplay and not require constant shopping of the mundane things. But, it also presents the balancing mechanic so that if the pouch/focus was taken away they are more restricted in what spells they can cast and must either find/buy a pouch/focus or find the material component itself.
The reason why there are two options is so people have a choice in their casting style: some prefer the idea of working with the material components ala Dresden files (Liam O'Brien is an example of this playing Caleb in Critical Role campain 2) while others prefers to do away with that.
To cast a spell with a material component you must:
- Have specifically acquired the material component and added it to your inventory.
- Use a component pouch.
- Use a relevant focus if permitted by your spellcasting feature.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in chapter 5, “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
The point of pouches and foci are so you can ignore meeting the material component requirements as long as you have them. The intent is so these can be dismissed to streamline the gameplay and not require constant shopping of the mundane things. But, it also presents the balancing mechanic so that if the pouch/focus was taken away they are more restricted in what spells they can cast and must either find/buy a pouch/focus or find the material component itself.
The reason why there are two options is so people have a choice in their casting style: some prefer the idea of working with the material components ala Dresden files (Liam O'Brien is an example of this playing Caleb in Critical Role campain 2) while others prefers to do away with that.
To cast a spell with a material component you must:
- Have specifically acquired the material component and added it to your inventory.
- Use a component pouch.
- Use a relevant focus if permitted by your spellcasting feature.
These are RAW.
So raw.
Mephistopheles appears on your plane. No one has ever seen him. Heard of him. Met him, none of that ever before.
yet raw. Every component pouch sold in history of this plane ever. Has exactly what it needs to banish them.
and-
RAW
Material there. Is saying. (If I am understanding this 100% correctly) an empty component pouch can substitute for ANY (non-cost) material? So... if that’s the case... why does it not read as a component pouch is your spell casting focus?
there are contradictions between the 3 relevant rules.
Why did this thread become a nitpick of the component pouch rules? It works that is the rules.
Also an empty component pouch is an empty pouch, not a component pouch. Also, also a hexblade's weapon cant be used as a focus, that is the blade pact improved pact weapon invocation.
Re empty: no, the pouch contains the material components you need. The rules do not detail how, just that it does. So, you could go with "assumed" that your character has been filling it along the way without having to say so, or just that it produces it magically. Up to you.
It doesn't make real world sense, so discussing it in real world terms is pointless. It does not work by real world sense. It's there as a game balance mechanic. D&D is not based in real world physics - the everyday basics like gravity and stuff can be assumed but anything of more in-depth view and D&D just breaks down completely. Armor proficiency doesn't work realistically either, nor do most of the creatures, darkvision is inconsistently given to creatures, medium or larger creatures being able to fly from just wings, the overuse of the term poison to describe things not actually poisonous, and more and more beside.
The component pouch is one of the many things that do not follow any real world thinking. It exists purely as a game mechanic: it "just has" what materials you need to cast your spell, just because the game says so. It's a balance mechanism and RP option.
Personally I loathe the material component system entirely and will never use a component pouch for my characters but I'm just pointing out that in games going by RAW a spellcaster and can select component pouch as their equipment and not have to mention ever shopping or acquiring non-cost material components, but can still choose to RP using them. While those with a focus can take that and not even need to RP using the components let alone acquiring them. They both serve the same balance system but give two different options for RPing the spellcasting.
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So obviously the DM needs to be able to read their table and not make the players think they are arbitrarily cheesing them by requiring a pile of dung worth at least 1sp in order to banish a random villager. At my table, that would fall under the category of excessive. I was thinking more in terms of thinking I don't want the players to easily circumvent learning the story-driven bad guy's secret disgust by the players holding up a component pouch that has every conceivable variation of material components in the world that don't require specific costs.
Seems like making the item in question a particular statue of his most hated deity made from at least 50gp worth of adamantine would solve the spirit and the letter of the rule in this case. Material component now has a specific cost therefore component pouch no longer qualifies.
So obviously the DM needs to be able to read their table and not make the players think they are arbitrarily cheesing them by requiring a pile of dung worth at least 1sp in order to banish a random villager. At my table, that would fall under the category of excessive. I was thinking more in terms of thinking I don't want the players to easily circumvent learning the story-driven bad guy's secret disgust by the players holding up a component pouch that has every conceivable variation of material components in the world that don't require specific costs.
Seems like making the item in question a particular statue of his most hated deity made from at least 50gp worth of adamantine would solve the spirit and the letter of the rule in this case. Material component now has a specific cost therefore component pouch no longer qualifies.
But the material component doesn't have a cost so it was intended on being free and usable - and consequently able to be replaced by a spellcasting focus. If the intent was otherwise - it would have a gold cost associated with it.
You have to remember - even if the target of Banishment is from a different plane - the caster still has to maintain concentration for a minute before it becomes permanent. If they lose concentration before the minute is up - the target comes back.
If you wanted to space someone permanently and without a possibility of them coming back easily - you'd cast Plane Shift instead - which I will point out does have a gold cost.
“Also an empty component pouch is an empty pouch, not a component pouch. Also, also a hexblade's weapon cant be used as a focus, that is the blade pact improved pact weapon invocation.”
no. A sack is an empty pouch. An empty component pouch still has compartments to store components, a sack does not. Is a belt with pockets. A sack is not. And is still waterproof. A sack is not.
“Stop saying wrong or irrelevant things.”
refer to above correction of yourself.
it is assumed you spend time collecting components into your pouch. It the pouch itself does not come fully stocked.
For an encounter in a homebrew setting I’m planning on having one of the bosses get banished by a teammate to outlast the effects of our hexalidin’s (hexblade paladin) curses. The question I have is: can things or people interact with him in the place he was banished to. For example can he prepare a space to be banished and have a healer prepared for him to get a safe heal mid-way through the fight or have there been statements that would refute this line of thinking
Sort of. It depends on the type of creature. Creatures native to whatever plane they are banished from get sent to a demiplane (presumably an empty one created by the spell).
Only creatures native to a different plane get sent to that plane (which is populated with creatures and items). The spell isn't specific about where in that plane they get sent. It could be random, it could be the "entrance" to the plane, it could be the last spot they were in before they left. Up to DM.
In general NPCs can have magic unavailable to PCs. Case in point, liches. So just say the BBEGs buddy casts "a spell" and the BBEG disappears. You don't have to explain to the players which spell or how exactly the mechanics work.
If you're dead set on following PC rules, you could use a preset rope trick behind a pillar or something for the BBEG to slip into unseen. You could also try a preset tiny hut. If I were a BBEG, I would definitely employ a wizard to cast tiny hut every 8 hours.
specifically for banishment: for one. Was does the hexblade have in his possession that your boss truly truly hates and despises. For the spell cost to cast? I see many a DM gloss over and just allow banish to banish no matter what. And that’s not how it works.
Blank
The caster is wearing a grey robe with brown boots--a very distasteful fashion choice.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
There is no material cost so material components can be ignored if the caster has a component pouch or relevant focus. A hexblade weapon works as an arcane focus for warlock magic. Paladins and clerics can use holy focuses - like an emblem and don't even need to "handle" it, just have it on show.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Components: V, S, M (an item distasteful to the target)
so... you carry around items distasteful to specific people in your component pouches? How convenient.
your focus lets you bypass this? How convenient.
does my component pouch or my focus let me bypass knowing a Demon’s true name then? —- same concept.
🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Blank
Stretching... possible. IF the target wears clothes themselves, and cares about fashion.
Some NPCs do fancy themselves Tim Gunn. So... I can’t argue that, even though you were trolling.
Blank
Yes. A material component without a cost can be substituted for a spellcasting focus.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
I didn't make the rules. ANd while you're free to change rules for your game, most choose not to for this case.
But the idea is that yes, a component pouch will have whatever you just so happen to need that doesn't have a gold cost. Game logic, not real world. And a lot of people use focuses instead anyway. As I said, the hexblade's well hexblade is such a focus.
The true name thing is an invalid argument - no official spell requires a demon's name as a material component. It's not even required as a verbal component, either.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Last paragraph.
point taken. That’s not even a component. And can prevent a spell from happening.
so... 2nd paragraph. “Game logic” your component pouch...
A component pouch is a small, watertight leather belt pouch that has compartments to hold all the material components and other special items you need to cast your spells, except for those components that have a specific cost (as indicated in a spell's description).
contains an INFINITE NUMBER OF POUNDSNOF RANDOM COMPONENTS, and values way more than 25g.
as you said: people can run games however they want. And you can homebrew your component pouches into bag of holdings for magic ingredients if you wish. But I tend to stay closer to the PhB.
read the pouch. Does it say it “contains” the components ahead of time? Or that it *could* potentially hold them for you?
edit: “compartment to hold”
to hold... future tense
holding... present tense...
you have an empty bag that you need to fill. But sure. I am Homebrewing it compared to you.
🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Blank
Chapter 10 - Spellcasting - Casting a Spell - Material Components
The point of pouches and foci are so you can ignore meeting the material component requirements as long as you have them. The intent is so these can be dismissed to streamline the gameplay and not require constant shopping of the mundane things. But, it also presents the balancing mechanic so that if the pouch/focus was taken away they are more restricted in what spells they can cast and must either find/buy a pouch/focus or find the material component itself.
The reason why there are two options is so people have a choice in their casting style: some prefer the idea of working with the material components ala Dresden files (Liam O'Brien is an example of this playing Caleb in Critical Role campain 2) while others prefers to do away with that.
To cast a spell with a material component you must:
These are RAW.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
So basically if the DM wants to disqualify the component pouch, they just need to make the distasteful item in question have a specific cost.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
So raw.
Mephistopheles appears on your plane. No one has ever seen him. Heard of him. Met him, none of that ever before.
yet raw. Every component pouch sold in history of this plane ever. Has exactly what it needs to banish them.
and-
RAW
Material there. Is saying. (If I am understanding this 100% correctly) an empty component pouch can substitute for ANY (non-cost) material? So... if that’s the case... why does it not read as a component pouch is your spell casting focus?
there are contradictions between the 3 relevant rules.
spellcasting
material components
and what is a component pouch
Blank
Why did this thread become a nitpick of the component pouch rules? It works that is the rules.
Also an empty component pouch is an empty pouch, not a component pouch. Also, also a hexblade's weapon cant be used as a focus, that is the blade pact improved pact weapon invocation.
Stop saying wrong or irrelevant things.
Re Mephistopholes: yes.
Re empty: no, the pouch contains the material components you need. The rules do not detail how, just that it does. So, you could go with "assumed" that your character has been filling it along the way without having to say so, or just that it produces it magically. Up to you.
It doesn't make real world sense, so discussing it in real world terms is pointless. It does not work by real world sense. It's there as a game balance mechanic. D&D is not based in real world physics - the everyday basics like gravity and stuff can be assumed but anything of more in-depth view and D&D just breaks down completely. Armor proficiency doesn't work realistically either, nor do most of the creatures, darkvision is inconsistently given to creatures, medium or larger creatures being able to fly from just wings, the overuse of the term poison to describe things not actually poisonous, and more and more beside.
The component pouch is one of the many things that do not follow any real world thinking. It exists purely as a game mechanic: it "just has" what materials you need to cast your spell, just because the game says so. It's a balance mechanism and RP option.
Personally I loathe the material component system entirely and will never use a component pouch for my characters but I'm just pointing out that in games going by RAW a spellcaster and can select component pouch as their equipment and not have to mention ever shopping or acquiring non-cost material components, but can still choose to RP using them. While those with a focus can take that and not even need to RP using the components let alone acquiring them. They both serve the same balance system but give two different options for RPing the spellcasting.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
So obviously the DM needs to be able to read their table and not make the players think they are arbitrarily cheesing them by requiring a pile of dung worth at least 1sp in order to banish a random villager. At my table, that would fall under the category of excessive. I was thinking more in terms of thinking I don't want the players to easily circumvent learning the story-driven bad guy's secret disgust by the players holding up a component pouch that has every conceivable variation of material components in the world that don't require specific costs.
Seems like making the item in question a particular statue of his most hated deity made from at least 50gp worth of adamantine would solve the spirit and the letter of the rule in this case. Material component now has a specific cost therefore component pouch no longer qualifies.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
^
Blank
But the material component doesn't have a cost so it was intended on being free and usable - and consequently able to be replaced by a spellcasting focus. If the intent was otherwise - it would have a gold cost associated with it.
You have to remember - even if the target of Banishment is from a different plane - the caster still has to maintain concentration for a minute before it becomes permanent. If they lose concentration before the minute is up - the target comes back.
If you wanted to space someone permanently and without a possibility of them coming back easily - you'd cast Plane Shift instead - which I will point out does have a gold cost.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
no. A sack is an empty pouch. An empty component pouch still has compartments to store components, a sack does not. Is a belt with pockets. A sack is not. And is still waterproof. A sack is not.
“Stop saying wrong or irrelevant things.”
refer to above correction of yourself.
it is assumed you spend time collecting components into your pouch. It the pouch itself does not come fully stocked.
Blank