Ok, so I was trying to create a Tortle with the monk class, but noticed how their 'Natural Armor' ability gives them a base AC of 17 when not wearing armour (their shell acts as protection). Does this cancel out the 'Unarmored Defense' of the Monk class? They're not actually wearing armour, but 23 for armour-class seems a tad broken.
To answer your question - the tortle natural armor and the monk's unarmored defense do not "stack" or in any way combine with each other - as with all AC calculations, you select which one you want to use.
Armor Class doesn't allow you to mix methods. You pick the stronger one of the options available to you. For a lot of characters, this will be whatever armor they have equipped. For a Monk or Barbarian, early levels it will definitely be their Unarmed Defense class features, unless there's another source.
In the case of the Tortle, the "reading between the lines" text is that you always, no matter what, have the option of just saying "My AC is 17" on account of the Tortle Shell. That doesn't mean it's the base which your equipped Armor adds to. That would still be whatever the Armor says, which may or may not include some or all of your Dex modifier. And you certainly would not be able to combine that with either of the Monk or Barbarian class features. You'd want to do the math and compare whatever the AC provided by those features is to the flat 17 of Tortle Shell.
To put it in more perspective, let's look at the Unarmored Defense options for both Monk and Barbarian. For Monk, it's 10 + Dex mod + Wis mod. If both Wis and Dex are at 20, providing +5 mods each, that's an AC of 20 while not wearing any Armor. For Barbarians, it looks almost the same -- 10 + Dex mod + Con mod. So with 20 in both Dex and Con, you'd also be looking at AC 20. But the chances of starting with that is... pretty much nothing. Most likely, if you're rolling, you'll have a 16 or 17, a couple 14s and/or 15s, and downhill from there. Since the Tortle race gives +2 Str and +1 Wis, we know we're not going to get any help to our Dex regardless of which class (assume the Barb is a Dex Barb, though, in spite of the +2 Str racial), so it's likely going to be that 16 or 17 that was rolled (+3 mod). If we were lucky and got a 15, we can stick that in Wis for the racial +1 Wis to push to 16, if we're going Monk, giving us a second +3 mod. The Barb will definitely put a big number in Con, but it won't get a racial boost, so it will be that 14 or 15 resulting in a +2 mod. With this information, we can compare the 2 scenarios.
For a Tortle Monk with a Dex of 17 and a Wis of 16, we can use the Unarmored Defense formula of 10 + Dex + Wis, giving us 10 + 3 + 3 = 16. Or, we can invoke the Tortle's Natural Armor and declare it 17.
For a Tortle Dex Barb with a Dex of 17 and a Con of 15, we can use the Unarmored Defense formula of 10 + Dex + Con, giving us 10 + 3 + 2 = 15. Or, we can invoke the Tortle's Natural Armor and declare it 17.
So at early levels, the Tortle's Natural Armor feature wins. But we can see that, as the Dex and Wis/Con scores of the characters increase, there will come a point where the Unarmored Defense feature is first equal to, then surpasses that flat 17 AC. It's a high base no scaling versus low base high scaling compromise.
Ok, so I was trying to create a Tortle with the monk class, but noticed how their 'Natural Armor' ability gives them a base AC of 17 when not wearing armour (their shell acts as protection). Does this cancel out the 'Unarmored Defense' of the Monk class? They're not actually wearing armour, but 23 for armour-class seems a tad broken.
any suggestions?
Everything the others have said is factually correct. Going a little farther, I'm going to assume your question partially arises from what your character sheet says your AC is.
If I remember correctly, DDB defaults to whichever AC calculation feature results in the highest AC for your character, based on all of your main stats, racial/class features, feats, and equipped gear. Natural Armor does not count as actual armor, but it is a completely separate formula. As a Monk, if the sum of your Dex & Wis modifiers are not greater than +7, your sheet is likely just defaulting to your Tortle AC.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Ok, so I was trying to create a Tortle with the monk class, but noticed how their 'Natural Armor' ability gives them a base AC of 17 when not wearing armour (their shell acts as protection). Does this cancel out the 'Unarmored Defense' of the Monk class? They're not actually wearing armour, but 23 for armour-class seems a tad broken.
any suggestions?
Keep in mind that the turtle's Natural armor says that they don't benefit from wearing armor. Your DM may take that at face value and say that armor is out the window altogether. Even though unarmored defense isn't armor, your DM might lump them in for the purposes of AC. You can use a shield to get your AC to 19.
Since unarmored defense isn't armor, they should be legit options for AC even if the DM doesn't allow for the tortle to benefit from armor. As has been stated above, unarmored defense sets your AC to 10, adds your dex modifier and then adds your modifier from the other ability (con for barbarian and wis for monk). A notable difference between the two is that barbarian can use a shield with unarmored defense while a monk cannot.
Thanks for everyone's help. I brought it up with my DM and they pretty much agree with the '17 AC + modifiers' option. problem solved!
Uhh, yeah what? That was explicitly not one of the options that anyone has presented here... Tortle Natural Armor is an AC formula. Unarmored Defense is an AC formula. You can only use one AC formula... you get a flat 17+nothing AC if you use the Tortle formula. You get 10+Dex+Wis AC if you use the Unarmored Defense formula. You do not get to combine them...
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Ok, so I was trying to create a Tortle with the monk class, but noticed how their 'Natural Armor' ability gives them a base AC of 17 when not wearing armour (their shell acts as protection). Does this cancel out the 'Unarmored Defense' of the Monk class? They're not actually wearing armour, but 23 for armour-class seems a tad broken.
any suggestions?
Link the character please.[Edit]Oh. I thought this was on bug forums and you were reporting that they were stacking.
To answer your question - the tortle natural armor and the monk's unarmored defense do not "stack" or in any way combine with each other - as with all AC calculations, you select which one you want to use.
The D&D Beyond sheet does this automatically.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/sac/sage-advice-compendium#CharacterCreation
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Armor Class doesn't allow you to mix methods. You pick the stronger one of the options available to you. For a lot of characters, this will be whatever armor they have equipped. For a Monk or Barbarian, early levels it will definitely be their Unarmed Defense class features, unless there's another source.
In the case of the Tortle, the "reading between the lines" text is that you always, no matter what, have the option of just saying "My AC is 17" on account of the Tortle Shell. That doesn't mean it's the base which your equipped Armor adds to. That would still be whatever the Armor says, which may or may not include some or all of your Dex modifier. And you certainly would not be able to combine that with either of the Monk or Barbarian class features. You'd want to do the math and compare whatever the AC provided by those features is to the flat 17 of Tortle Shell.
To put it in more perspective, let's look at the Unarmored Defense options for both Monk and Barbarian. For Monk, it's 10 + Dex mod + Wis mod. If both Wis and Dex are at 20, providing +5 mods each, that's an AC of 20 while not wearing any Armor. For Barbarians, it looks almost the same -- 10 + Dex mod + Con mod. So with 20 in both Dex and Con, you'd also be looking at AC 20. But the chances of starting with that is... pretty much nothing. Most likely, if you're rolling, you'll have a 16 or 17, a couple 14s and/or 15s, and downhill from there. Since the Tortle race gives +2 Str and +1 Wis, we know we're not going to get any help to our Dex regardless of which class (assume the Barb is a Dex Barb, though, in spite of the +2 Str racial), so it's likely going to be that 16 or 17 that was rolled (+3 mod). If we were lucky and got a 15, we can stick that in Wis for the racial +1 Wis to push to 16, if we're going Monk, giving us a second +3 mod. The Barb will definitely put a big number in Con, but it won't get a racial boost, so it will be that 14 or 15 resulting in a +2 mod. With this information, we can compare the 2 scenarios.
For a Tortle Monk with a Dex of 17 and a Wis of 16, we can use the Unarmored Defense formula of 10 + Dex + Wis, giving us 10 + 3 + 3 = 16. Or, we can invoke the Tortle's Natural Armor and declare it 17.
For a Tortle Dex Barb with a Dex of 17 and a Con of 15, we can use the Unarmored Defense formula of 10 + Dex + Con, giving us 10 + 3 + 2 = 15. Or, we can invoke the Tortle's Natural Armor and declare it 17.
So at early levels, the Tortle's Natural Armor feature wins. But we can see that, as the Dex and Wis/Con scores of the characters increase, there will come a point where the Unarmored Defense feature is first equal to, then surpasses that flat 17 AC. It's a high base no scaling versus low base high scaling compromise.
Everything the others have said is factually correct. Going a little farther, I'm going to assume your question partially arises from what your character sheet says your AC is.
If I remember correctly, DDB defaults to whichever AC calculation feature results in the highest AC for your character, based on all of your main stats, racial/class features, feats, and equipped gear. Natural Armor does not count as actual armor, but it is a completely separate formula. As a Monk, if the sum of your Dex & Wis modifiers are not greater than +7, your sheet is likely just defaulting to your Tortle AC.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Keep in mind that the turtle's Natural armor says that they don't benefit from wearing armor. Your DM may take that at face value and say that armor is out the window altogether. Even though unarmored defense isn't armor, your DM might lump them in for the purposes of AC. You can use a shield to get your AC to 19.
Since unarmored defense isn't armor, they should be legit options for AC even if the DM doesn't allow for the tortle to benefit from armor. As has been stated above, unarmored defense sets your AC to 10, adds your dex modifier and then adds your modifier from the other ability (con for barbarian and wis for monk). A notable difference between the two is that barbarian can use a shield with unarmored defense while a monk cannot.
Thanks for everyone's help. I brought it up with my DM and they pretty much agree with the '17 AC + modifiers' option. problem solved!
"17AC + modifiers" was not supposed to be the correct choice, but you go crazy with your 22?AC.
That's.... kind of the opposite of what everyone here said, but hey, you got a massive bonus!
Uhh, yeah what? That was explicitly not one of the options that anyone has presented here... Tortle Natural Armor is an AC formula. Unarmored Defense is an AC formula. You can only use one AC formula... you get a flat 17+nothing AC if you use the Tortle formula. You get 10+Dex+Wis AC if you use the Unarmored Defense formula. You do not get to combine them...
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
A few words of wisdom: Fear the DM that allows for an OP, early level AC.
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