Whether or not shields are armor I think is irrelevant. Shield proficiency is explicitly listed as an armor proficiency in every class that grants it.
And in Fighter, Shield proficiently is defined so as to clearly not fall under the scope of "all armor," since they're a separate proficiency.
Proficiencies
Armor: All armor, shields
Its inconsistent from section to section whether the plain language agitates in favor of treating shields as armor or not, you aren't going to find a magic bullet that clearly resolves it. Monks and Barbarians are both explicit that wielding a shield is not the same as wearing armor, while Warforged racial entry treats Shield as a type of armor (that is not eligible for integrated protection), and on and on and on. It was poorly defined at publication, hasn't been errata'd, and individual sections lean more in favor of one or the other.
Again, I'm not commenting on whether or not shields are armor. That's not relevant here. I don't believe there is any text that suggests shield proficiency is not an armor proficiency. You've mentioned some wordings that suggest shields are not armor; other places suggest shields are armor. I'm with you on the inconsistent language there.
What I believe is not inconsistent is whether or not shield proficiency is an armor proficiency (and thus follows the rules for armor proficiency, including penalties for nonproficient use). At least, I haven't found any language that suggests shield proficiency is its own thing, separate from armor proficiency. Again, it's explicitly listed as an armor proficiency in every class that grants it. If you're aware of anything that contradicts that, I'm all ears (or eyes? whatever).
Since we seem to agree that it is not explicit in the rules (with a little bit of sarcasm), I'll answer as a DM.
Shield proficiency is a thing in the game. If a creature wields a shield that doesn't have proficiency one of two things happen. 1. The same as wearing armor without armor proficiency. (This is the most likely scenario for me.) 2. A creature can wear a shield and gain the +2 but it counts as half cover and would NOT stack with other half cover. (This is the less likely but not out of the question scenario.)
Hi everyone and happy holidays. Given how popular Critical Role is and the great influence it has on DND that our definition of what War Forged and Steel Defenders (or reskinned versions) is going to change dramatically both officially and in homebrew because of Fresh Cut Grass. Fresh Cut Grass has opened my eyes as to what is now permissible and for myself, at my table, it's now a matter of game balance and working with the player at my table to have a cool construct while not going Lion Volton.
As a DM I would say that the steel defender and homonculous are extensions of the player and so cannot attune to a magic item. They can however use magic items that do not require attunement. An example would be horseshoes of the zephyr.
Yeah I wanted to play my artificer as if he had a battle-bot. Here's how I got around it. I used my infusions to create armor and an armblade for it. I asked my DM if granting my steel defender proficiency with a x weapon that I made using an infusion. I justified it as my character using their expertise to calibrate the steel defender to use this particular weapon and armor only, since I would have to burn 2 infusions to do so. He agreed as long as it was an infusion that it could use it without penalty.
Nope. They'd follow the normal rules for other creatures using the weapon (assuming they're designed with the appendages to use them). Force-Empowered Rend is a special attack that the Steel Defender gets to use as an option. It doesn't "stack" or add to using other weapons.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
The DM for my current artificer worked with me and we created a homebrewed Steel Defender for use in the encounter builder. Try to keep track of it via the character sheet is a royal pain in the keester. We have had to created a updated version when I hit level 5 so it would reflect my new Proficiency Bonus (I'll have to do so again when I hit a new proficiency bonus.
The current implementation of the Steel Defender is almost useless.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
i think something that is important to the is shield "armor" or not is in regards to what kind of shield are being used here. Since 5e doesn't distinguish between the different kind of of shield (ie buckler, kite, tower) we are left to assume that by the armor section that the basic "shield" listed is in fact strapped to your arm therefore it is both wore and wielded. If you have ever used a shield like this before it is a lot more then just oh i have a shield now. You have a large, heavy weight strapped to your forearm. Its unwieldy and awkward, it take training and knowhow to use it properly. It can throw off your balance when swinging, it can be knocked out of the way if you dont know how to defend with it and it can make moving very awkward. i think having the same disadvantage as armor are perfectly reasonable if you dont know how to use a shield.
Something i do wish that 5e did do was had different kinda of shields. i guess you could talk with your dm about it. could make something like a small buckler that added 1ac but disadvantage with dex checks or something and could be donned and doffed as an action unless you had shield prof., Round shields that gave +2 need shield prof or get armor disadvantages and tower shields +3 ac but give decreased movement , have a str requirement and disadvantage on str and dex checks.
That's right no force. But I do have the option to use either in combat. My characters whole schtik is his Battlebot. Currently my defender is infused with +2 enhanced armor plate, a repulsion shield +1, an amulet of health (19 con = 28hp)and a propulsion arm, he can knock them back and blast them with a ranged force fist attack and a 23AC and 103HP to boot. Using only 3 attunement slots. I enhance his saving throws with Flash of Genius for a +5.
Sometimes I give him Guantlets of ogre power or Belt of hill giant strength so he can be a mamajammin grappler.
So I am playing a Battle Smith because my dm doesn't want to introduce fire arms into the world ... yet, so I am modeling my steel defender after mountain goat / ram (big horns, I am a gnome so I want to ride it). But the creature has the action of Charge would yous as DM allow the action or allow roll play for researching into creating rune instructions too create said command for the steel defender too also perform?
Does anyone know how to get the defender stat block to show up? I have gone to "extras" and selected Battle Smith Defender as the option, but only get a comprehensive list of creatures. Is this a new bug?
So I am playing a Battle Smith because my dm doesn't want to introduce fire arms into the world ... yet, so I am modeling my steel defender after mountain goat / ram (big horns, I am a gnome so I want to ride it). But the creature has the action of Charge would yous as DM allow the action or allow roll play for researching into creating rune instructions too create said command for the steel defender too also perform?
RAW you can't charge, but saying "I command my defender to act by shouting "Charge!" and holding on" is perfectly viable flavour. Your Force Empowered Rend can be a Force Empowered Ram, after all, with no in-game changes! By my reading, you just say "as a bonus action, my Steel Defender is going to do stuff" and then select its actions.
Does anyone know how to get the defender stat block to show up? I have gone to "extras" and selected Battle Smith Defender as the option, but only get a comprehensive list of creatures. Is this a new bug?
Again, I'm not commenting on whether or not shields are armor. That's not relevant here. I don't believe there is any text that suggests shield proficiency is not an armor proficiency. You've mentioned some wordings that suggest shields are not armor; other places suggest shields are armor. I'm with you on the inconsistent language there.
What I believe is not inconsistent is whether or not shield proficiency is an armor proficiency (and thus follows the rules for armor proficiency, including penalties for nonproficient use). At least, I haven't found any language that suggests shield proficiency is its own thing, separate from armor proficiency. Again, it's explicitly listed as an armor proficiency in every class that grants it. If you're aware of anything that contradicts that, I'm all ears (or eyes? whatever).
Since we seem to agree that it is not explicit in the rules (with a little bit of sarcasm), I'll answer as a DM.
Shield proficiency is a thing in the game. If a creature wields a shield that doesn't have proficiency one of two things happen. 1. The same as wearing armor without armor proficiency. (This is the most likely scenario for me.) 2. A creature can wear a shield and gain the +2 but it counts as half cover and would NOT stack with other half cover. (This is the less likely but not out of the question scenario.)
Hi everyone and happy holidays. Given how popular Critical Role is and the great influence it has on DND that our definition of what War Forged and Steel Defenders (or reskinned versions) is going to change dramatically both officially and in homebrew because of Fresh Cut Grass. Fresh Cut Grass has opened my eyes as to what is now permissible and for myself, at my table, it's now a matter of game balance and working with the player at my table to have a cool construct while not going Lion Volton.
As a DM I would say that the steel defender and homonculous are extensions of the player and so cannot attune to a magic item. They can however use magic items that do not require attunement. An example would be horseshoes of the zephyr.
Yeah I wanted to play my artificer as if he had a battle-bot. Here's how I got around it. I used my infusions to create armor and an armblade for it. I asked my DM if granting my steel defender proficiency with a x weapon that I made using an infusion. I justified it as my character using their expertise to calibrate the steel defender to use this particular weapon and armor only, since I would have to burn 2 infusions to do so. He agreed as long as it was an infusion that it could use it without penalty.
Crawford ruled a defender as a creature. It's an artificial creature now.
It literally always has been.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Thats cool, but how would you think weapon dmg would work? Like
Ex: Longsword 1d10 slash + 1d8 + Pb force
Or
1d10 slash + Pb force
1d8 (1d10 with two hands) + 2 (the Steel Defender's Strength Modifier).
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
No force? :((
Nope. They'd follow the normal rules for other creatures using the weapon (assuming they're designed with the appendages to use them). Force-Empowered Rend is a special attack that the Steel Defender gets to use as an option. It doesn't "stack" or add to using other weapons.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
The DM for my current artificer worked with me and we created a homebrewed Steel Defender for use in the encounter builder. Try to keep track of it via the character sheet is a royal pain in the keester. We have had to created a updated version when I hit level 5 so it would reflect my new Proficiency Bonus (I'll have to do so again when I hit a new proficiency bonus.
The current implementation of the Steel Defender is almost useless.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
i think something that is important to the is shield "armor" or not is in regards to what kind of shield are being used here. Since 5e doesn't distinguish between the different kind of of shield (ie buckler, kite, tower) we are left to assume that by the armor section that the basic "shield" listed is in fact strapped to your arm therefore it is both wore and wielded. If you have ever used a shield like this before it is a lot more then just oh i have a shield now. You have a large, heavy weight strapped to your forearm. Its unwieldy and awkward, it take training and knowhow to use it properly. It can throw off your balance when swinging, it can be knocked out of the way if you dont know how to defend with it and it can make moving very awkward. i think having the same disadvantage as armor are perfectly reasonable if you dont know how to use a shield.
Something i do wish that 5e did do was had different kinda of shields. i guess you could talk with your dm about it. could make something like a small buckler that added 1ac but disadvantage with dex checks or something and could be donned and doffed as an action unless you had shield prof., Round shields that gave +2 need shield prof or get armor disadvantages and tower shields +3 ac but give decreased movement , have a str requirement and disadvantage on str and dex checks.
That's right no force. But I do have the option to use either in combat. My characters whole schtik is his Battlebot. Currently my defender is infused with +2 enhanced armor plate, a repulsion shield +1, an amulet of health (19 con = 28hp)and a propulsion arm, he can knock them back and blast them with a ranged force fist attack and a 23AC and 103HP to boot. Using only 3 attunement slots. I enhance his saving throws with Flash of Genius for a +5.
Sometimes I give him Guantlets of ogre power or Belt of hill giant strength so he can be a mamajammin grappler.
So I am playing a Battle Smith because my dm doesn't want to introduce fire arms into the world ... yet, so I am modeling my steel defender after mountain goat / ram (big horns, I am a gnome so I want to ride it). But the creature has the action of Charge would yous as DM allow the action or allow roll play for researching into creating rune instructions too create said command for the steel defender too also perform?
Does anyone know how to get the defender stat block to show up? I have gone to "extras" and selected Battle Smith Defender as the option, but only get a comprehensive list of creatures. Is this a new bug?
Interestingly I am in the process of improving the Steel Defender with a whole pile of Feat options. I can't wait to playtest them!
RAW you can't charge, but saying "I command my defender to act by shouting "Charge!" and holding on" is perfectly viable flavour. Your Force Empowered Rend can be a Force Empowered Ram, after all, with no in-game changes! By my reading, you just say "as a bonus action, my Steel Defender is going to do stuff" and then select its actions.
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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The steel defender was designed as a construct. A construct is a creature. There is no discussion on whether or not it is a creature, it is.
hey I am a new battle smith and wanting to know if my steel defender can attack with a weapon.
I think it is in Tasha's cauldron of everything.