I have a question a little off topic regarding feather fall? I was adventuring with my group and we walked into a trap. The floor fell out beneath us the DM called for a DC Dex save. All characters made the save except one, our barbarian. I (the wizard) wanted to cast feather fall to save my party member, but the DM said that I had already used my reaction for the DC save. I questioned this because I felt that it nerfed my spell or the ability to cast it. I argued that if that were the case in the future could I be allowed to forgo the DC save and just cast the spell. His reply was that I could not that the trap required a DC save. Thoughts please
I have a question a little off topic regarding feather fall? I was adventuring with my group and we walked into a trap. The floor fell out beneath us the DM called for a DC Dex save. All characters made the save except one, our barbarian. I (the wizard) wanted to cast feather fall to save my party member, but the DM said that I had already used my reaction for the DC save. I questioned this because I felt that it nerfed my spell or the ability to cast it. I argued that if that were the case in the future could I be allowed to forgo the DC save and just cast the spell. His reply was that I could not that the trap required a DC save. Thoughts please
Your DM is being unreasonable. A Save is not the same as a reaction... otherwise any time someone was targeted with a spell or ability in combat that requires a save, they would lose their reaction and would automatically fail any future saves for the rest of the round. This is exactly the kind of thing Featherfall is designed for. If there's something hazardous at the bottom of the pit then, sure, featherfall wouldn't help... but if it's just a trap that deals fall damage. The exception would be if the process of saving yourself requires the use of both hands, since Feather Fall requires a material component. Still, in that instance it would be totally fair to just let you drop as well to free up your hands and feather fall.
Abilities only cost your reaction if they specifically say they do. It's possible to have a trap that says "As a reaction, you can...", but it's not the normal way they're constructed.
Thanks for posting, I will try to approach the topic again and see if he is more receptive. We are all new to 5e and just wanted some advice regarding reactions and DC saves.
I think the focus of the responses so far to this question are on the spell as if the spell is the only important force, but the problem is a matter of what forces are acting on characters.
The spell says, "A falling creature’s rate of descent slows to 60 feet per round until the spell ends." Implied is that a creature is falling due to gravity. The spell slows the descent due to gravity on that character. This doesn't prevent any other force from acting on the character. If wind pushes a character horizontally, feather fall doesn't prevent this additional horizontal movement. If a giant plucks the character out of the air and smashes the character into the ground, that would be forced movement, faster than falling due to gravity, and would lead to damage on impact even if feather fall is active. Also, gravity will act normally on any other creatures or items not directly targeted by feather fall, which is a transmutation spell. This means that any other objects or characters which are not already being carried by a character when the spell is activated will fall normally and will potentially push the characters who are impacted by the spell. I say "potentially" because a small item might have a negligible impact and be caught without consequence. A larger object or a character that has not been transmutated by the spell would push a character impacted by the spell to fall faster than they would on their own. This might lead to damage on impact in the air and damage on impact with the ground.
If a targeted character can properly carry another character, subject to all rules of carrying capacity and grappling maintained prior and up to the point when feather fall is activated, then the spell would allow the targeted character to fall with the carried character according to the rules of the spell without impediment.
Related Off Topic: Weaponized feather fall. As the spell does not designate the creature be willing, nor that there is a size limit, I was successful in stopping a dragon from making a swoop attack. After all, winged flight is "just falling with style!" It didn't stop the dragon from using it claw, bite, tail swipe, but it did stop its movement. I think rewarding players for out-of-the-box thinking enhances the game play. Sometimes frustrating when the DM has something in mind, but railroading isn't conductive to sustained play.
Related Off Topic: Weaponized feather fall. As the spell does not designate the creature be willing, nor that there is a size limit, I was successful in stopping a dragon from making a swoop attack. After all, winged flight is "just falling with style!" It didn't stop the dragon from using it claw, bite, tail swipe, but it did stop its movement. I think rewarding players for out-of-the-box thinking enhances the game play. Sometimes frustrating when the DM has something in mind, but railroading isn't conductive to sustained play.
No matter how I look at it, I can't see how it would work. Obviously winged flight is not falling with style since it allows for upwards and sideways movement which is by definition not falling and even if it was and assuming this very specific rule reading, the Dragon still gets to "fall" 60 feet per round until it hits the ground safely.
I am glad that the DM seized the moment and made it fun for you (this is what matters after all) but I disagree with the assumption that reading the rules correctly is "railroading". I would be the first to say that in 5e spells are too narrow with their description and there needs to be some kind of provision that lets the DM adjudicate with some common sense in mind but I wouldn't count a flying dragon as "falling" ;-) This is the opposite of using common sense in spellcasting.
Related Off Topic: Weaponized feather fall. As the spell does not designate the creature be willing, nor that there is a size limit, I was successful in stopping a dragon from making a swoop attack. After all, winged flight is "just falling with style!" It didn't stop the dragon from using it claw, bite, tail swipe, but it did stop its movement. I think rewarding players for out-of-the-box thinking enhances the game play. Sometimes frustrating when the DM has something in mind, but railroading isn't conductive to sustained play.
Dragons are not Buzz Lightyear...real flight is controllable in all directions (including up, sideways, and down) while falling is not (only down). What you are describing would be more akin to "gliding" rather than falling, but dragons and most other winged creatures do not "glide" by default (they can of course, and it is a part of flying, but only a subset, not the whole)
Related Off Topic: Weaponized feather fall. As the spell does not designate the creature be willing, nor that there is a size limit, I was successful in stopping a dragon from making a swoop attack. After all, winged flight is "just falling with style!" It didn't stop the dragon from using it claw, bite, tail swipe, but it did stop its movement. I think rewarding players for out-of-the-box thinking enhances the game play. Sometimes frustrating when the DM has something in mind, but railroading isn't conductive to sustained play.
No matter how I look at it, I can't see how it would work. Obviously winged flight is not falling with style since it allows for upwards and sideways movement which is by definition not falling and even if it was and assuming this very specific rule reading, the Dragon still gets to "fall" 60 feet per round until it hits the ground safely.
I am glad that the DM seized the moment and made it fun for you (this is what matters after all) but I disagree with the assumption that reading the rules correctly is "railroading". I would be the first to say that in 5e spells are too narrow with their description and there needs to be some kind of provision that lets the DM adjudicate with some common sense in mind but I wouldn't count a flying dragon as "falling" ;-) This is the opposite of using common sense in spellcasting.
This case did not stop the flying. If the dragon wanted to fly up, side ways or any other direction than a downward swoop, they would be unimpeded. In fact they did land without any trouble, they simply couldn't Swoop/dive and get the extra damage/maneuverability out of it. It was effectively deploying the airbrakes/parachute, disrupting 1 form of attack at the cost of my reaction and a spell slot.
I agree with everything you've said here. Although the only thing I would add is that there are potions of feather falling, that give one individual the affect, without affecting the whole five people that the initial spell would allow. Literally the only thing though. This situation isn't something that I think could be super heavily abused, and I think having physical checks to determine the extent of characters abilities based on character STR makes complete sense. Having a goliath being able to carry a halfling under the affect of the Feather Fall spell seems completely reasonable, but the other way around... I think not.
Anyone gonna mention that the terminal velocity of a person is 150-180mph? If you tried catching that...well neither you or that would be around much longer. And yes you do hit terminal velocity quickly around 12 seconds (2 turns). When it comes to starting with people holding on, it seems fine. What could they hold onto that could take their weight other than the person, and quite conveniently the average person can lift around 130lbs and guess what the average weight for a person is? around 130lbs, this suggests 1 character (medium) could only hold 1 other person unless they had 20 strength in which case 2 people (since a 10 is said to be average in dnd). Okay so what if you got creative have one person jump on back of another and then another on their back? Well that's it anymore and the 1st person hanging on would fall taking everyone else with them. Okay what about rope and everyone hangs off another? Well done, you can have a grand total of 5 NAKED people, the crushing weight of again an average (constitution maybe?) is 700lbs. Crushed to death, how? 60ft falling speed is safe but also the MAX SPEED you might as well be in an elevator with an unbreakable floor!. However that is across an entire body, now imagine you attaching this rope to someones leg?? Gone that leg will be ripped off. How about a harness? Sure, try making a harness out of rope quickly, might as well have 5 people go down first then have person at bottem cast it again on more people as they jump down. This spell may be strong however think about the other side of it, how many things can go wrong and what happens when it does, not just a opps that didn't work better luck next time. If you're going to use this spell it wont be a small drop min damage is 1d6 and max is 20d6 even level 20 characters can easily be downed and some could be outright killed by the max fall, eg sorcerer 1d6 hp level 20 means a 20d6 hit pool (assuming 0 con which tbf is unlikely but..). Personally I'd allow my players the rule of cool but only if it was fair, so not just murdering a bunch of people then jumping off a cliff because lol. But rather if they are being chased and see there is a chasm they are heading to I'd allow them to cast feather fall on themselves and the horse with a carridge (if a horse can pull it they most likely can take the weight with a small margin for the max weight they can carry lowering slightly)
Anyone gonna mention that the terminal velocity of a person is 150-180mph?
No, because that isn't a rule and not part of the question. It would be irrelevant to bring it up.
I didn't bother to read your 456 word, unformatted wall of text to avoid eye strain, so I don't know if you mention anything relevant to this year old thread.
As per rule book, no. Among other things, what action/reaction would let you do this?
But: Rule of Cool
As a DM I would say you need to make a Dex check, DC 15, followed by a Strength Check DC 10 each round till you land.
I have a question a little off topic regarding feather fall? I was adventuring with my group and we walked into a trap. The floor fell out beneath us the DM called for a DC Dex save. All characters made the save except one, our barbarian. I (the wizard) wanted to cast feather fall to save my party member, but the DM said that I had already used my reaction for the DC save. I questioned this because I felt that it nerfed my spell or the ability to cast it. I argued that if that were the case in the future could I be allowed to forgo the DC save and just cast the spell. His reply was that I could not that the trap required a DC save. Thoughts please
Your DM is being unreasonable. A Save is not the same as a reaction... otherwise any time someone was targeted with a spell or ability in combat that requires a save, they would lose their reaction and would automatically fail any future saves for the rest of the round. This is exactly the kind of thing Featherfall is designed for. If there's something hazardous at the bottom of the pit then, sure, featherfall wouldn't help... but if it's just a trap that deals fall damage. The exception would be if the process of saving yourself requires the use of both hands, since Feather Fall requires a material component. Still, in that instance it would be totally fair to just let you drop as well to free up your hands and feather fall.
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Abilities only cost your reaction if they specifically say they do. It's possible to have a trap that says "As a reaction, you can...", but it's not the normal way they're constructed.
Ask him if two people cast spells at you do you not get a save for the second attack because your save was used up?
Thanks for posting, I will try to approach the topic again and see if he is more receptive. We are all new to 5e and just wanted some advice regarding reactions and DC saves.
I think the focus of the responses so far to this question are on the spell as if the spell is the only important force, but the problem is a matter of what forces are acting on characters.
The spell says, "A falling creature’s rate of descent slows to 60 feet per round until the spell ends." Implied is that a creature is falling due to gravity. The spell slows the descent due to gravity on that character. This doesn't prevent any other force from acting on the character. If wind pushes a character horizontally, feather fall doesn't prevent this additional horizontal movement. If a giant plucks the character out of the air and smashes the character into the ground, that would be forced movement, faster than falling due to gravity, and would lead to damage on impact even if feather fall is active. Also, gravity will act normally on any other creatures or items not directly targeted by feather fall, which is a transmutation spell. This means that any other objects or characters which are not already being carried by a character when the spell is activated will fall normally and will potentially push the characters who are impacted by the spell. I say "potentially" because a small item might have a negligible impact and be caught without consequence. A larger object or a character that has not been transmutated by the spell would push a character impacted by the spell to fall faster than they would on their own. This might lead to damage on impact in the air and damage on impact with the ground.
If a targeted character can properly carry another character, subject to all rules of carrying capacity and grappling maintained prior and up to the point when feather fall is activated, then the spell would allow the targeted character to fall with the carried character according to the rules of the spell without impediment.
Related Off Topic: Weaponized feather fall.
As the spell does not designate the creature be willing, nor that there is a size limit, I was successful in stopping a dragon from making a swoop attack. After all, winged flight is "just falling with style!" It didn't stop the dragon from using it claw, bite, tail swipe, but it did stop its movement. I think rewarding players for out-of-the-box thinking enhances the game play. Sometimes frustrating when the DM has something in mind, but railroading isn't conductive to sustained play.
No matter how I look at it, I can't see how it would work. Obviously winged flight is not falling with style since it allows for upwards and sideways movement which is by definition not falling and even if it was and assuming this very specific rule reading, the Dragon still gets to "fall" 60 feet per round until it hits the ground safely.
I am glad that the DM seized the moment and made it fun for you (this is what matters after all) but I disagree with the assumption that reading the rules correctly is "railroading". I would be the first to say that in 5e spells are too narrow with their description and there needs to be some kind of provision that lets the DM adjudicate with some common sense in mind but I wouldn't count a flying dragon as "falling" ;-) This is the opposite of using common sense in spellcasting.
Dragons are not Buzz Lightyear...real flight is controllable in all directions (including up, sideways, and down) while falling is not (only down). What you are describing would be more akin to "gliding" rather than falling, but dragons and most other winged creatures do not "glide" by default (they can of course, and it is a part of flying, but only a subset, not the whole)
This case did not stop the flying. If the dragon wanted to fly up, side ways or any other direction than a downward swoop, they would be unimpeded. In fact they did land without any trouble, they simply couldn't Swoop/dive and get the extra damage/maneuverability out of it. It was effectively deploying the airbrakes/parachute, disrupting 1 form of attack at the cost of my reaction and a spell slot.
I agree with everything you've said here. Although the only thing I would add is that there are potions of feather falling, that give one individual the affect, without affecting the whole five people that the initial spell would allow. Literally the only thing though. This situation isn't something that I think could be super heavily abused, and I think having physical checks to determine the extent of characters abilities based on character STR makes complete sense. Having a goliath being able to carry a halfling under the affect of the Feather Fall spell seems completely reasonable, but the other way around... I think not.
Anyone gonna mention that the terminal velocity of a person is 150-180mph? If you tried catching that...well neither you or that would be around much longer. And yes you do hit terminal velocity quickly around 12 seconds (2 turns). When it comes to starting with people holding on, it seems fine. What could they hold onto that could take their weight other than the person, and quite conveniently the average person can lift around 130lbs and guess what the average weight for a person is? around 130lbs, this suggests 1 character (medium) could only hold 1 other person unless they had 20 strength in which case 2 people (since a 10 is said to be average in dnd). Okay so what if you got creative have one person jump on back of another and then another on their back? Well that's it anymore and the 1st person hanging on would fall taking everyone else with them. Okay what about rope and everyone hangs off another? Well done, you can have a grand total of 5 NAKED people, the crushing weight of again an average (constitution maybe?) is 700lbs. Crushed to death, how? 60ft falling speed is safe but also the MAX SPEED you might as well be in an elevator with an unbreakable floor!. However that is across an entire body, now imagine you attaching this rope to someones leg?? Gone that leg will be ripped off. How about a harness? Sure, try making a harness out of rope quickly, might as well have 5 people go down first then have person at bottem cast it again on more people as they jump down. This spell may be strong however think about the other side of it, how many things can go wrong and what happens when it does, not just a opps that didn't work better luck next time. If you're going to use this spell it wont be a small drop min damage is 1d6 and max is 20d6 even level 20 characters can easily be downed and some could be outright killed by the max fall, eg sorcerer 1d6 hp level 20 means a 20d6 hit pool (assuming 0 con which tbf is unlikely but..). Personally I'd allow my players the rule of cool but only if it was fair, so not just murdering a bunch of people then jumping off a cliff because lol. But rather if they are being chased and see there is a chasm they are heading to I'd allow them to cast feather fall on themselves and the horse with a carridge (if a horse can pull it they most likely can take the weight with a small margin for the max weight they can carry lowering slightly)
No, because that isn't a rule and not part of the question. It would be irrelevant to bring it up.
I didn't bother to read your 456 word, unformatted wall of text to avoid eye strain, so I don't know if you mention anything relevant to this year old thread.
Can Feather Fall be used to Glide?
The spell feather fall makes the falling creature's rate of descent slows to 60 feet per round it doesn't allow direction controlled gliding per se.