how to you handle wish? assuming the party asked something that isn't in the spell description - how far do you go? what Implications do you give, if any? i would love some advice about this spell
- If the caster rolls and they will lose Wish after this casting, I will grant the wish almost competely and without complication. They have paid a heavy enough price.
- If the caster does not lose the spell and have asked for something which matches the power level of the listed options or any other spell up to level 9, it shall be granted.
- If they keep the spell and have asked for something outlandish, then things get interesting. They will get a very powerful boon, but not everything they hoped for - and there will likely be an unexpected downside, as happens when mere mortals toy with powers beyond their ken. At very least they are likely to earn some new enemies, as magic of such power will not go unnoticed.
RegentCorreon's suggestion is great. Basically if the player wants something of a level roughly equal to the listed options on Wish - let them have them with no (or very very few) downsides. As the Wish further deviates and gets more and more ridiculous or OP - start toning up the downsides to compensate.
Remember though - this is a game. Don't screw over the player just to screw them over. It might be fun for you and maybe even the other players but it won't be fun for them - and the whole point is to have fun. They're expending a 9th level spell that they might never be able to use again. Take that into consideration. Edit: If the player is really trying to take the piss with their Wish - go right ahead and screw them over. They're asking for it. But if it's fairly sensible - be sensible in return.
Any Wish against RAW follows RAW rules, but Wish leaves a lot of wiggle room not covered by RAW.
Something that breaks the game going forward yet not covered by RAW (immune to magic damage, able to pick any lock, flight at will, etc.) gets something likely very undesired but technically correct.
Something that requests two or more conditions gets only one at my choosing. Implying a secondary without actually asking for a two-in-one (such as using words like "while" - watch for this word just as much as watching for "and" - it's sneaky) counts as two conditions. If they use anything other than "and" to make extra requests - any weasel-y way to try to Wish for two or more things - they get the worst of the Wish in the worst technically correct interpretation.
The Cosmology does not like to be played for fools.
A simple Wish that does not defy the RAW gets granted, possibly with a better interpretation. Humility when playing with cosmic powers receives reward.
"I Wish for us to be safe at home." You're safe but have no idea where you are now. "Why? I asked to be safe at home!" Because "safe" and "at home" are two requests.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Ban it. It's the only way to be sure wish doesn't get out of hand.
If one has no sense or courage maybe. Most the time Wish is a DM device, until 17th level. At that time, it should be planned for and by all. Most Wish spells are used for stated effect, very useful that way, with no risk.
Don’t forget, the party is not the only ones with access to Wish and Gods can make that 9th level spell seem like a cantrip.
Ban it. It's the only way to be sure wish doesn't get out of hand.
If one has no sense or courage maybe. Most the time Wish is a DM device, until 17th level. At that time, it should be planned for and by all. Most Wish spells are used for stated effect, very useful that way, with no risk.
Don’t forget, the party is not the only ones with access to Wish and Gods can make that 9th level spell seem like a cantrip.
My experience with wish at high levels is that everyone takes it if its available (we had a bard and wizard with it) and they play it safe by just using it to cast any spell in the game under 8th level. The only suggestion I ever see for wish is for the DM to due their best to 'screw' the player. Rather than make high level play even more stressful for players and DM I say ban it. Or at the minimum remove it from all spell lists and just introduce it in magic items or gifts from deities so it retains the air of special-ness it deserves.
Agreed. Banning is a blanket "no" - a thing that DMs should try to avoid - not always unavoidable but it should not be the go-to response.
Make Wish part of the story if you can.
As I mentioned, I prefer to interpret it as a passion-play device regarding greed and humility. By lore, the greater 5e Cosmology doesn't easily share power, and Wish can sometimes tread a little further than some deities think is permissible - especially among the deities that meddle in Material matters. If anything were to affect a Wish, it would be a powerful and jealous entity - of which there are oodles in 5e. I also let RAW be the foil to Wish - an obstacle for successfully using Wish.
Someone said that DMs should think in terms of "Yes, and...". I do not think I agree 100% with that, but by that sentiment, a "no" could become a "Yes, but..." in many situations, such as a successful but game-breaking Wish.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
i'm not talking about screwing the players - this isn't me against them a case i had: my party of 6 players level 11 found the legendary blackrazor . during a tough encounter, the player wielding blackrazor rolled a 1, so i told her she hit the ally near her (who was another player) and to roll damage - she killed him. the party had made a deal with hags to get a wish any way and wasn't really in a hurry to do it and i thought it would be a nice side quest and a development for the party so i said to the player that the sword devoured his soul.
they got the wish and freed him - he was locked in a sentient sword who wants to kill people - does he get madness after he got free? some penalty to wisdom? every thing is curable by greater restoration of similar effect of course - but i want that doing so has a price
...something that will be revealed at a later time? (Discuss with the player.)
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
how to you handle wish? assuming the party asked something that isn't in the spell description - how far do you go? what Implications do you give, if any?
I try to have the results add to the story/fun, which might involve getting input from the players.
Modest requests would likely go off without a hitch (even if poorly worded ).
Anything that could unbalance the game will likely be temporary or altered.
And of course, blatantly trying to use it to munchkin or game the system would unsurprisingly result in a Monkey Paw.
That particular use of wish isn't really all that extreme (it's basically just dispelling a Soul Cage or Imprisonment and then casting Resurrection), so there's no special need to twist it, but given that it was just a plot device wish, it can be as effective or limited effectiveness as you want. In general wishes granted by a third party will be fulfilled in a manner matching the personality of the wish granter, which in the case of a hag coven is likely malicious.
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Hello all!
how to you handle wish? assuming the party asked something that isn't in the spell description - how far do you go? what Implications do you give, if any?
i would love some advice about this spell
Personally, three things I might do:
- If the caster rolls and they will lose Wish after this casting, I will grant the wish almost competely and without complication. They have paid a heavy enough price.
- If the caster does not lose the spell and have asked for something which matches the power level of the listed options or any other spell up to level 9, it shall be granted.
- If they keep the spell and have asked for something outlandish, then things get interesting. They will get a very powerful boon, but not everything they hoped for - and there will likely be an unexpected downside, as happens when mere mortals toy with powers beyond their ken. At very least they are likely to earn some new enemies, as magic of such power will not go unnoticed.
RegentCorreon's suggestion is great.
Basically if the player wants something of a level roughly equal to the listed options on Wish - let them have them with no (or very very few) downsides. As the Wish further deviates and gets more and more ridiculous or OP - start toning up the downsides to compensate.
Remember though - this is a game. Don't screw over the player just to screw them over. It might be fun for you and maybe even the other players but it won't be fun for them - and the whole point is to have fun. They're expending a 9th level spell that they might never be able to use again. Take that into consideration.
Edit: If the player is really trying to take the piss with their Wish - go right ahead and screw them over. They're asking for it. But if it's fairly sensible - be sensible in return.
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When it's me as DM (and only when it's me as DM):
Any Wish against RAW follows RAW rules, but Wish leaves a lot of wiggle room not covered by RAW.
Something that breaks the game going forward yet not covered by RAW (immune to magic damage, able to pick any lock, flight at will, etc.) gets something likely very undesired but technically correct.
Something that requests two or more conditions gets only one at my choosing. Implying a secondary without actually asking for a two-in-one (such as using words like "while" - watch for this word just as much as watching for "and" - it's sneaky) counts as two conditions. If they use anything other than "and" to make extra requests - any weasel-y way to try to Wish for two or more things - they get the worst of the Wish in the worst technically correct interpretation.
The Cosmology does not like to be played for fools.
A simple Wish that does not defy the RAW gets granted, possibly with a better interpretation. Humility when playing with cosmic powers receives reward.
"I Wish for us to be safe at home."
You're safe but have no idea where you are now.
"Why? I asked to be safe at home!"
Because "safe" and "at home" are two requests.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
If the wish is just too powerful, spell is capable of failing.
Ban it. It's the only way to be sure wish doesn't get out of hand.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
If one has no sense or courage maybe. Most the time Wish is a DM device, until 17th level. At that time, it should be planned for and by all. Most Wish spells are used for stated effect, very useful that way, with no risk.
Don’t forget, the party is not the only ones with access to Wish and Gods can make that 9th level spell seem like a cantrip.
My experience with wish at high levels is that everyone takes it if its available (we had a bard and wizard with it) and they play it safe by just using it to cast any spell in the game under 8th level. The only suggestion I ever see for wish is for the DM to due their best to 'screw' the player. Rather than make high level play even more stressful for players and DM I say ban it. Or at the minimum remove it from all spell lists and just introduce it in magic items or gifts from deities so it retains the air of special-ness it deserves.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats
Yes, thank you for repeating your opinion again.
Others, including mine, experience has been different. And the DM "screwing" the player(s) is as old as the game itself.
Ban it? all you need is a 2nd level spell to negate it in the first place...
Agreed. Banning is a blanket "no" - a thing that DMs should try to avoid - not always unavoidable but it should not be the go-to response.
Make Wish part of the story if you can.
As I mentioned, I prefer to interpret it as a passion-play device regarding greed and humility. By lore, the greater 5e Cosmology doesn't easily share power, and Wish can sometimes tread a little further than some deities think is permissible - especially among the deities that meddle in Material matters. If anything were to affect a Wish, it would be a powerful and jealous entity - of which there are oodles in 5e. I also let RAW be the foil to Wish - an obstacle for successfully using Wish.
Someone said that DMs should think in terms of "Yes, and...". I do not think I agree 100% with that, but by that sentiment, a "no" could become a "Yes, but..." in many situations, such as a successful but game-breaking Wish.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
i'm not talking about screwing the players - this isn't me against them
a case i had:
my party of 6 players level 11 found the legendary blackrazor . during a tough encounter, the player wielding blackrazor rolled a 1, so i told her she hit the ally near her (who was another player) and to roll damage - she killed him.
the party had made a deal with hags to get a wish any way and wasn't really in a hurry to do it and i thought it would be a nice side quest and a development for the party so i said to the player that the sword devoured his soul.
they got the wish and freed him - he was locked in a sentient sword who wants to kill people - does he get madness after he got free? some penalty to wisdom?
every thing is curable by greater restoration of similar effect of course - but i want that doing so has a price
...something that will be revealed at a later time? (Discuss with the player.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
I try to have the results add to the story/fun, which might involve getting input from the players.
That particular use of wish isn't really all that extreme (it's basically just dispelling a Soul Cage or Imprisonment and then casting Resurrection), so there's no special need to twist it, but given that it was just a plot device wish, it can be as effective or limited effectiveness as you want. In general wishes granted by a third party will be fulfilled in a manner matching the personality of the wish granter, which in the case of a hag coven is likely malicious.