I haven’t played since 3.5 and am trying to get back into D&D with 5th Ed. So during this time I’ve been looking at rule books and just sort of exploring ways to combine character features. And most of what I’ve read on the subject has implied that as long as it’s not a directly named bonus it stacks.
So if I understand it correctly it works like this:
Take your basic AC formula so like
Unarmored: 10 + your Dexterity modifier.
Armored: Use the AC entry for the armor you’re wearing (see PH, 145). For example, in leather armor, you calculate your AC as 11 + your Dexterity modifier, and in chain mail, your AC is simply 16.
Unarmored Defense (Barbarian): 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier.
and then you add add any named AC bonuses you have but only using one of any particular type such as shield. Followed by adding any unnamed bonuses. And if I understand right those unnamed bonuses can stack pretty much infinitely as long as you meet the requirements for each of them.
Is this correct?
If so can I only get the benefit from one bonus that I get access to because I’ve made an attack? Or if I have two attacks can I trigger a bonus that has say a requirement that I strike with a finesse weapon by striking with a finesse weapon in one hand and combine that bonus with a different unnamed bonus that is triggered by I don’t know some nonfinesse weapon by swinging with a nonfinesse weapon in your right hands?
Thanks in advance. Also, if this is not where I need to be asking this question just let me know.
If something says "your AC is equal to: -formula-" you can't stack it with another feature that does the same. You simply have to choose the one you want (usually highest value).
If something just says "+X to AC" (like a shield) then you can add that - but only if your AC calculation lets you (Monks Unarmoured Defence can't use Shield for example).
First, there is a difference between an AC calculation and an AC bonus. You only get 1 AC calculation, which are formatted as 10+dex modifier (unarmored), or 10+dex modifier+con modifier (+ shield, unarmored defense barbarian), or 17 (Tortle racial benefit or Splint Armor). Mage Armor and Barkskin are spell versions.
AC bonuses are anything that says +1, +2, etc. Shields are essentially bonuses. Defensive Fighting Style is a bonus. Shield of Faith is another. You can only benefit from one type with the same name, unless the rules state otherwise for that spell or feature.
In the instance you are talking about you will only be able to receive one bonus because the feature that applies the bonus is what matters, not what was used to apply it. Exceptions to that rule will mention it specifically in the rules of the spell or feature (I can't think of any off the top of my head).
Since I know my wording was vague and likely hard to understand. The very particulars of my line of questioning is essentially would a kensei’s agile parry combine with a sword Bard’s defensive flourish if you Had 5 levels of monk and therefore had two attacks and could use an unarmed strike for one and a kensei weapon for the other?
Yes. Both the Sword Bard's Defensive Flourish and Kensei Monk's Agile Parry are both AC bonuses and would add on to the normal Monk's Unarmoured Defence calculation.
Ok, so it was my poor wording. Sorry about that. And thank you.
so I have one more question. Can a tortle who is a kensei 5/swords bard 15 benefit from a shield, and kick someone with one attack to get the kensei’s agile parry, then stab someone with a dagger that’s a kensei weapon to get the defensive flourish, and benefit from defensive duelist?
i understand that this would likely be terrible to actually play. I started looking at making a TMNT when I ended up with the tortle race and somehow this idea just formed and I wonder if it would work.
Ok, so it was my poor wording. Sorry about that. And thank you.
so I have one more question. Can a tortle who is a kensei 5/swords bard 15 benefit from a shield, and kick someone with one attack to get the kensei’s agile parry, then stab someone with a dagger that’s a kensei weapon to get the defensive flourish, and benefit from defensive duelist?
i understand that this would likely be terrible to actually play. I started looking at making a TMNT when I ended up with the tortle race and somehow this idea just formed and I wonder if it would work.
Yes, you can combine all those, but you won't be adding your Wisdom to your AC because a monk's Unarmored Defense feature doesn't work while equipping a shield. As a Tortle, you have a base AC of 17, +2 from the shield, +2 from Agile Parry, +6 from Defensive Duelist, and +1d12 from Defensive Flourish nets you an AC of 28-39 which is completely unnecessarily high. While you're at it, might as well burn a Ki point to Patient Defense and force everyone to attack you at Disadvantage.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
So I now have a new question, if you gave someone disadvantage on an attack, and then used a luck point to roll a roll yourself. Would that mean they roll two die and you roll one and they take the worst roll. Or can you make them both happen?
Ok, so it was my poor wording. Sorry about that. And thank you.
so I have one more question. Can a tortle who is a kensei 5/swords bard 15 benefit from a shield, and kick someone with one attack to get the kensei’s agile parry, then stab someone with a dagger that’s a kensei weapon to get the defensive flourish, and benefit from defensive duelist?
i understand that this would likely be terrible to actually play. I started looking at making a TMNT when I ended up with the tortle race and somehow this idea just formed and I wonder if it would work.
Short answer: you can do all of these things, but not well.
AC formula: Natural Armor (Tortle) vs. Unarmored Defense (Monk)
Natural Armor is also an AC formula, and typically the least understood. For the Tortle, it is a flat 17AC, with the possibility of adding a shield, and nobonus from Dex. Monks are usually going to have Dex as their main stat, and your build in particular is going to rely on it. You can use whichever formula results in the highest AC total for you, but you'd be essentially be always giving up one of the major features of either your race or class(es).
Unarmored Defense (Monk) does not work with a shield. If you're just using your Tortle formula, that's fine, but reference the fact that you've got redundancies that are entirely incompatible. It's just going to keep snowballing.
Martial Arts incompatibility
Martial Arts just straight up doesn't work if you have a shield equipped. Full stop.
Your Monk Weapons & Kensei Weapons do not benefit from increased damage die (Unarmed Strike goes back to 1 + Str instead of 1dX + Str or Dex), and you lose the ability to make an Unarmed Strike as a bonus action.
Using a shield effectively shuts off everything Monk, and defeats the purpose of taking those levels in the first place.
You've got a clear character concept in mind, and Monk/Bard is absolutely doable! You can obviously play it however you want. However, I see your situation not as being sub-optimal (min/maxing), but rather as simply unnecessarily sacrificing entire features. Playing a Tortle conflicts with your Monk features, using a shield conflicts with your Monk features, and conforming to your Monk features sacrifices your main Tortle feature. Using a shield at all conflicts with so many aspects that I'd really recommend you just ditch it entirely. There are much better ways to get some extra AC, and you really don't need it with your build.
If you are committed to the character design (and I'm not trying to dissuade you from it) of similarity to TMNT, may I recommend a different race? In particular, the Shifter and Simic Hybrid races are excellent races that provide relevant bonuses to your build, and can easily fit your theme of generalized turtle/amphibian physical traits & appearance. Beasthide (Turtle) or Swiftstride (amphibian) Shifter subraces would fit quite well. A Simic Hybrid with the Underwater Adaptation & Carapace enhancements is basically exactly what I think you're really looking for.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Using a shield effectively shuts off everything Monk, and defeats the purpose of taking those levels in the first place.
Using a shield does not "shut off everything monk," it just shuts off (1) enhanced unarmed and monk weapon attack damage, (2) using Dex to attack with unarmed strikes, (3) monk AC calculation, (4) receiving a single unarmed strike as a bonus action automatically when you attack with a monk weapon as part of the attack action, and (5) monk movement bonuses. That is certainly a lot, but it does not turn off your ability to use Ki points for Flurry of Blows (two unarmed strikes as a bonus action), Step of the Wind, or patient defense, or pretty much any other monk ability like Deflect Arrows, Slow Fall, Evasion, Stunning Strike, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, Diamon Soul, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Timeless Body, Empty Body, or any of the monk subclass features (except for the Kensei feature that just extends Monk Weapon classification to more weapons). It takes a very specific sort of build to find value in monk without focusing on unarmed strikes, but characters wearing armor and wielding shields and attacking with a d6 or better weapon may still desire monk levels for one reason or another. Stunning Strike, for example, is good on pretty much any melee character with decent Widsom.
So I now have a new question, if you gave someone disadvantage on an attack, and then used a luck point to roll a roll yourself. Would that mean they roll two die and you roll one and they take the worst roll. Or can you make them both happen?
Yes, but actually even a little more flexible than that. When they roll with disadvantage against you, they roll two D20's and use the lower of the two. By using a luck point, you also roll a d20 yourself, and then "choose whether the attack uses the attacker's roll or yours." If you want to be hit for some reason, you decide which of the two dice they use (their lower of two d20's, or your one luck d20), not necessarily forcing them to use the lowest. But no, they don't "both happen" (meaning two attacks were made?), you've just chosen one die out of three total dice rolled to represent a single attack against you.
[ Off topic I know, but please note, the wording of how Luck interacts this way with other character's attack rolls against you is subtly different from how Luck interacts with your own rolls. If you are rolling with advantage or disadvantage yourself, and use a luck point, you "roll an additional d20" (three total), and then choose any one of the three to use (doesn't have to be the lowest/highest, regardless of whether the roll had disadvantage/advantage). ]
Using a shield effectively shuts off everything Monk, and defeats the purpose of taking those levels in the first place.
Using a shield does not "shut off everything monk," it just shuts off (1) enhanced unarmed and monk weapon attack damage, (2) using Dex to attack with unarmed strikes, (3) monk AC calculation, (4) receiving a single unarmed strike as a bonus action automatically when you attack with a monk weapon as part of the attack action, and (5) monk movement bonuses. That is certainly a lot, but it does not turn off your ability to use Ki points for Flurry of Blows (two unarmed strikes as a bonus action), Step of the Wind, or patient defense, or pretty much any other monk ability like Deflect Arrows, Slow Fall, Evasion, Stunning Strike, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, Diamon Soul, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Timeless Body, Empty Body, or any of the monk subclass features (except for the Kensei feature that just extends Monk Weapon classification to more weapons). It takes a very specific sort of build to find value in monk without focusing on unarmed strikes, but characters wearing armor and wielding shields and attacking with a d6 or better weapon may still desire monk levels for one reason or another. Stunning Strike, for example, is good on pretty much any melee character with decent Widsom.
He's going to level 5 in Monk. The shield effectively shuts down more than it doesn't... for 2 AC. Oh, joy.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
5 stunning strikes per day isn’t bad, nor is the reactionary deflect arrows. A Mountain Dwarf monk that wants to be strength based, use a war hammer and shield, and wear half plate doesn’t really lose any AC or much attack power out of the compromise... even less if they’re a Hill Dwarf interweaving it with Fighter.
Anyway, like I said, not the best way to build a monk, but far from useless.
I greatly appreciate the answers folks. This is all theorycrafting to help me better understand the system and to explore a random idea that popped into my head while pursuing a character idea. Thanks much everyone.
I am also trying to figure out what stacks and what does not.
AC formula - pick one and that is it - armour, unarmoured, spell
Then you can add + bonuses as long as they are not the same thing - shield, feats, class skills, different types of magic items.
So I could have a wizard with Mage Armour and a Dex modifier of +2 = 15. He could then be wearing a Cloak of Protection and a Ring of Protection, both giving +1 Ac, for a total of 17. Is that correct?
I haven’t played since 3.5 and am trying to get back into D&D with 5th Ed. So during this time I’ve been looking at rule books and just sort of exploring ways to combine character features. And most of what I’ve read on the subject has implied that as long as it’s not a directly named bonus it stacks.
So if I understand it correctly it works like this:
Take your basic AC formula so like
and then you add add any named AC bonuses you have but only using one of any particular type such as shield. Followed by adding any unnamed bonuses. And if I understand right those unnamed bonuses can stack pretty much infinitely as long as you meet the requirements for each of them.
Is this correct?
If so can I only get the benefit from one bonus that I get access to because I’ve made an attack? Or if I have two attacks can I trigger a bonus that has say a requirement that I strike with a finesse weapon by striking with a finesse weapon in one hand and combine that bonus with a different unnamed bonus that is triggered by I don’t know some nonfinesse weapon by swinging with a nonfinesse weapon in your right hands?
Thanks in advance. Also, if this is not where I need to be asking this question just let me know.
You can not stack AC features.
None whatsoever? So like you get your AC from whichever AC formula benefits you most and then select a single AC bonus to add?
edit: or do you mean each named bonus you can add one of but you only get one unnamed?
If something says "your AC is equal to: -formula-" you can't stack it with another feature that does the same. You simply have to choose the one you want (usually highest value).
If something just says "+X to AC" (like a shield) then you can add that - but only if your AC calculation lets you (Monks Unarmoured Defence can't use Shield for example).
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
First, there is a difference between an AC calculation and an AC bonus. You only get 1 AC calculation, which are formatted as 10+dex modifier (unarmored), or 10+dex modifier+con modifier (+ shield, unarmored defense barbarian), or 17 (Tortle racial benefit or Splint Armor). Mage Armor and Barkskin are spell versions.
AC bonuses are anything that says +1, +2, etc. Shields are essentially bonuses. Defensive Fighting Style is a bonus. Shield of Faith is another. You can only benefit from one type with the same name, unless the rules state otherwise for that spell or feature.
In the instance you are talking about you will only be able to receive one bonus because the feature that applies the bonus is what matters, not what was used to apply it. Exceptions to that rule will mention it specifically in the rules of the spell or feature (I can't think of any off the top of my head).
Since I know my wording was vague and likely hard to understand. The very particulars of my line of questioning is essentially would a kensei’s agile parry combine with a sword Bard’s defensive flourish if you Had 5 levels of monk and therefore had two attacks and could use an unarmed strike for one and a kensei weapon for the other?
Yes. Both the Sword Bard's Defensive Flourish and Kensei Monk's Agile Parry are both AC bonuses and would add on to the normal Monk's Unarmoured Defence calculation.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Ok, so it was my poor wording. Sorry about that. And thank you.
so I have one more question. Can a tortle who is a kensei 5/swords bard 15 benefit from a shield, and kick someone with one attack to get the kensei’s agile parry, then stab someone with a dagger that’s a kensei weapon to get the defensive flourish, and benefit from defensive duelist?
i understand that this would likely be terrible to actually play. I started looking at making a TMNT when I ended up with the tortle race and somehow this idea just formed and I wonder if it would work.
Yes, you can combine all those, but you won't be adding your Wisdom to your AC because a monk's Unarmored Defense feature doesn't work while equipping a shield. As a Tortle, you have a base AC of 17, +2 from the shield, +2 from Agile Parry, +6 from Defensive Duelist, and +1d12 from Defensive Flourish nets you an AC of 28-39 which is completely unnecessarily high. While you're at it, might as well burn a Ki point to Patient Defense and force everyone to attack you at Disadvantage.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
So I now have a new question, if you gave someone disadvantage on an attack, and then used a luck point to roll a roll yourself. Would that mean they roll two die and you roll one and they take the worst roll. Or can you make them both happen?
Short answer: you can do all of these things, but not well.
You've got a clear character concept in mind, and Monk/Bard is absolutely doable! You can obviously play it however you want. However, I see your situation not as being sub-optimal (min/maxing), but rather as simply unnecessarily sacrificing entire features. Playing a Tortle conflicts with your Monk features, using a shield conflicts with your Monk features, and conforming to your Monk features sacrifices your main Tortle feature. Using a shield at all conflicts with so many aspects that I'd really recommend you just ditch it entirely. There are much better ways to get some extra AC, and you really don't need it with your build.
If you are committed to the character design (and I'm not trying to dissuade you from it) of similarity to TMNT, may I recommend a different race? In particular, the Shifter and Simic Hybrid races are excellent races that provide relevant bonuses to your build, and can easily fit your theme of generalized turtle/amphibian physical traits & appearance. Beasthide (Turtle) or Swiftstride (amphibian) Shifter subraces would fit quite well. A Simic Hybrid with the Underwater Adaptation & Carapace enhancements is basically exactly what I think you're really looking for.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Using a shield does not "shut off everything monk," it just shuts off (1) enhanced unarmed and monk weapon attack damage, (2) using Dex to attack with unarmed strikes, (3) monk AC calculation, (4) receiving a single unarmed strike as a bonus action automatically when you attack with a monk weapon as part of the attack action, and (5) monk movement bonuses. That is certainly a lot, but it does not turn off your ability to use Ki points for Flurry of Blows (two unarmed strikes as a bonus action), Step of the Wind, or patient defense, or pretty much any other monk ability like Deflect Arrows, Slow Fall, Evasion, Stunning Strike, Stillness of Mind, Purity of Body, Diamon Soul, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Timeless Body, Empty Body, or any of the monk subclass features (except for the Kensei feature that just extends Monk Weapon classification to more weapons). It takes a very specific sort of build to find value in monk without focusing on unarmed strikes, but characters wearing armor and wielding shields and attacking with a d6 or better weapon may still desire monk levels for one reason or another. Stunning Strike, for example, is good on pretty much any melee character with decent Widsom.
Yes, but actually even a little more flexible than that. When they roll with disadvantage against you, they roll two D20's and use the lower of the two. By using a luck point, you also roll a d20 yourself, and then "choose whether the attack uses the attacker's roll or yours." If you want to be hit for some reason, you decide which of the two dice they use (their lower of two d20's, or your one luck d20), not necessarily forcing them to use the lowest. But no, they don't "both happen" (meaning two attacks were made?), you've just chosen one die out of three total dice rolled to represent a single attack against you.
[ Off topic I know, but please note, the wording of how Luck interacts this way with other character's attack rolls against you is subtly different from how Luck interacts with your own rolls. If you are rolling with advantage or disadvantage yourself, and use a luck point, you "roll an additional d20" (three total), and then choose any one of the three to use (doesn't have to be the lowest/highest, regardless of whether the roll had disadvantage/advantage). ]
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
He's going to level 5 in Monk. The shield effectively shuts down more than it doesn't... for 2 AC. Oh, joy.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
5 stunning strikes per day isn’t bad, nor is the reactionary deflect arrows. A Mountain Dwarf monk that wants to be strength based, use a war hammer and shield, and wear half plate doesn’t really lose any AC or much attack power out of the compromise... even less if they’re a Hill Dwarf interweaving it with Fighter.
Anyway, like I said, not the best way to build a monk, but far from useless.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I greatly appreciate the answers folks. This is all theorycrafting to help me better understand the system and to explore a random idea that popped into my head while pursuing a character idea. Thanks much everyone.
I am also trying to figure out what stacks and what does not.
AC formula - pick one and that is it - armour, unarmoured, spell
Then you can add + bonuses as long as they are not the same thing - shield, feats, class skills, different types of magic items.
So I could have a wizard with Mage Armour and a Dex modifier of +2 = 15. He could then be wearing a Cloak of Protection and a Ring of Protection, both giving +1 Ac, for a total of 17. Is that correct?
Yes, that’s correct. Mage Armor provides the new formula, and you’re good for both magic items.
Thanks for confirming!