If "hate" is a strong word I'll admit I am a bit disdraught after the events of the last session. I am playing Curse of Strahd for the first time and for many in our group of 7 players it's our first experience with dnd.
Last session we crossed the land towards the town of Valaki to accomplish our quest by the lake. Knowing I'm a wizard, my DM created a shop out of town where we could buy and sell magic stuff. I saw there the chance to finally buy the materials I needed to transcribe some of the spells i found in a spellbook in the death house at the START of the campaign...
But the cost for even the incense to bring my familiar back costs 10 times it's normal price... and it's the same for the rare inks I nees to transcribe spells... So needless to say I couldn't afford anything and that's when I first regretted making a Wizard...
I love that class but it's an expensive class to play in the base game and if I have to spend 500 gold to transcribe the identify spell into my spellbook then pay 1000 gp to buy a perl to cast it, i think I'm better off paying the 10 gold pieces it cost me to have the spell cast on the items I showed the witch...
Sorry for the long post but I thought some context was needed here. My question is : Is the pricing supposed to be that high (x10) for class essentials items like my "fine ink" and incense ?
I have the means to look that up but I won't even bother. That is an absurd rule and therefore, I would never apply it nor abide by it. The truth is that wizards are the class most constrained by the economy in the first place, to set prices the way you describe seems to be a targeted disincentive for that class.
I intend to talk to my DM about it since learning all the spells from the spellbook we found eons ago would require 4500 gold pieces worth of ink... that means my group of SEVEN people would need to make about 30000 gold pieces of profit before lvl 5-6 to even be worth learning...
It's her first campaign as a DM and she's never been a player much. But we're friends so I'm sure we'll sort it out.
Everything in curse of strahd is more expansive, I think Valaki says PHB items are 5 times more that what is listed. So I see where your DM is connecting (wrongly in my opinion) this to the wizard's cost for scribing spells.
My DM says it's supposed to be 10 times more expensive... I hope she listens to reason because right now she doesn't seem to understand the issue from my point of view.
I get that Curse of Strahd is hardcore but I just don't understand why I would loot a spellbook at lvl 1-2 and NEVER be able to scribe any spell from it before lvl 15...
My DM offers that the merchant will have a possibility to offer a discount if we go and see her again. But I don't think it'll be enough at all.
I've told her that people on this thread agree with me and she's gonna check the issue with a DM group she's talking with.
Technically, he's doing it wrong in a way that favors your PC. Bildrath only sells 'items from the Adventurer's Gear table in the player's handbook, but only items with a price less than 25 gp in the table'. As the wizard supplies are neither in the adventurer's gear table nor 25 gp or less, he's not supposed to offer them at all.
In practice, the DM should probably be offering an alternate means of getting at least some supplies. Though a wizard is viable without scribing any spells at all, just not as flexible.
It's her first campaign as a DM and she's never been a player much. But we're friends so I'm sure we'll sort it out.
I'm afraid but, maybe this is the problem. It is an error to try to dungeonmaster if you don't even play more than a couple of times. Does anybody else in your table can rule the adventure instead?
It is an error to try to dungeonmaster if you don't even play more than a couple of times
I fundamentally disagree with this; you don't need to have played the game as a player to DM. I started out DM'ing and in fact, in my 15 years playing D&D, I've been a player for a 1.5 year campaign and 2 one-shots. That's it.
In my opinion, DM'ing and playing a PC are very different experiences and you can be be good at one without ever having done the other. Knowing the rules is just a tiny fraction of either.
1) If things cost 10x, then you should be able sell things for 10x. Make a trade. If you picked the scholar's pack, that sells for 40 gp = 400 gp value. Just be sure to negotiate the right to use the ink pen to transcribe your new spells before you sell it.
2) The cost is to scribe the spell into your book, not to learn it. I would ask to be allowed (house rule) to simply learn how to read that particular spellbook, perhaps by scribing your notes in the margins of the old spell book. Doing so in effect might reduce your cost. Thus I would propose that the cost for converting the old spellbook to yours would be 10gp per level of ink, rather than 50gp. 10x10 = 100 gp per level, so using Cursed prices, you only end up paying double, but you have to lug around an extra spellbook.
1) If things cost 10x, then you should be able sell things for 10x. Make a trade. If you picked the scholar's pack, that sells for 40 gp = 400 gp value. Just be sure to negotiate the right to use the ink pen to transcribe your new spells before you sell it.
Things cost 10x as much because the merchant is gouging the adventurers that came from outside the mists.
I would note that in general the economy of CoS is designed to screw with any class that is reliant on equipment, it's not targeting the wizard per se. There's also a gross shortage of magical services. The DM is correctly following the general theme of the module. Now, the general theme might be poor game play, but on the particular issue of wizard spellbooks: there's no real need to *ever* scribe a scroll. Just rely on your two free spells per level.
It's worth noting that going to a forum to get a bunch of people to effectively sign a digital petition you can bring to your DM and say "All these people say you suck! Gimme what I want!" is super bad form. Your DM is absolutely working within the spirit of the module - gear of any sort is really frickin' hard to come by in Barovia, and despite what the Internet may think, wizards are not entitled to add every spell they come across to their spellbook whenever they like and have two hundred spells in their repertoire by level six. Not any more than fighters are 'entitled' to +2 platemail. Any spells a wizard can add to their spellbook are extras, especially since they already get more spells through simply leveling up than any other casting class. Ask the bard or sorcerer how torn up they are that you can't copy all those fancy new spells into your spellbook.
That said? You need [X]gp worth of stuff to get your book sorted. That doesn't mean it has to personally cost you [X] gold pieces. Obtain it. Find a supply and have the rogue steal it. Offer services in trade, the way the DM is working on. If you have the right tool proficiencies, try to make it yourself. Rather than carping on the DM to just let you do it the easy way and getting a bunch of Internet strangers to carp for you when that dopesn't work, try thinking like a hyperintelligent wizard in a situation where their normal resources aren't available would. Play the role and solve the issue.
So first off this wasn't a petition. I didn't go to my DM telling her that I wanted the easy way that's not my style.
The solution we agreed on was a quest in order to obtain basic materials like incense and "rare inks". If it helps you understand why I go to forums to ask questions like that, it's to have a broader vision of how fair a situation is.
A side note to make you understand I am nor ill intended or a bad player either. My DM originally came to me offering this quest saying that the reward would be an INFINITE supply of scribing materials and incense while in Barovia. I was the one who told her that this was way too much and that it broke my class gameplay wise. I mean, why would I need gold after that ? I won't be able to buy anything magical anyway so why even bother ? So I told her no. A finite amount of materials makes much more sense.
Perhaps generally speaking wizards don't need to scribe spells in their spellbook to be efficient but it was a part of the game I was really looking forward to when I started the game.
I thank you for your answer though and I assure you that I will be even more careful than I've already been with what I ask my DM in the future.
I know this was back in May but this topic comes up any time someone plays a wizard in Curse of Strahd so I will comment. I am DMing CoS for a wizard as well as a pact of the tome warlock right now. These are the different approaches I can imagine best tackle this issue.
First, the CoS book specifically states that items for sale are 10x the price in Barovia and 5x at the other place. Your DM is not mistaken, and has very kindly created an extra store for you despite the RAW. Barovia is intentionally devoid of gear improvements. Wizards are not meant to liberally transcribe spells; fighters and paladins are not meant to upgrade their chain mail to plate; consuming arrows is meant to be a slap in the pocketbook. In other words - it is not a flaw, it is a feature of Barovia. Mechanically, a wizard gets 2 spells per level and does not *need* those extra spells any more than the fighter *needs* plate armor. Keep in mind that balance is only relative to your party, not other players in other settings.
That said - it feels disproportionately bad for wizards to find the books and not be able to use them, which does not happen to other classes. In this sense, removing the spellbooks from the game's loot entirely could weirdly enough be a solution if your DM wants to preserve the general scarcity vibe of Barovia - though this is not a solution in your particular case.
If the DM is ok with compromising the setting's sense of scarcity, there are a variety of solutions available.
The most heavy-handed solution is to read the rules literally and just not think any more about it. The rules do not require a wizard to buy 50g of ink. It says you spend 50g on random materials while experimenting with the spell, including good quality ink. If your DM wanted to find a way to interpret the rules to let you transcribe, they could allow the use of materials harvested from monsters and whatnot to be used according to their non-Barovia value. I personally found this to be a suitable solution for my warlock. In her case, the blood of aberrations and suitably powerful monsters will serve as rare inks for her eldritch tome.
If your DM *really* wants it to work out generously for your wizard, another solution is to just claim that like any skilled wizard would do, the last 50 pages of every spell book are false and are used to hold transcription materials. Then, whenever you find a spell book, you also find enough transcription materials to copy one or two spells from it. Wizards are absolutely not meant to have the cash on hand to copy every single spell from every spell book they find, especially not in a campaign where none of the other classes get their usual money-driven upgrades such as plate armor. This is the solution I have used for my wizard.
If your DM simply doesn't care about you transcribing a bunch of spells, they can rule that you simply spend the 50g from your inventory. I don't like this solution because it lacks flavour but then lots of DMS, and, in my experience, most players, would prefer this. Most people playing this game honestly just want a sting of vaguely interconnected combats. And you probably still won't have so much money available to you that you can transcribe willy-nilly. At the end of the day, it doesn't make any less sense than the warlock suddenly having a spellbook appear at level 3 or magically being able to add spells to the book for free on level-up. It is important to keep realism in context.
Lastly - and this is a solution for other issues as well - the game has tool proficiencies right there in the character builder. Xanathar's has details for more specific ways to use them. A ranger with proficiency with the correct tools can surely make her own arrows. An alchemist who spends the time to scour the woods and fight off the random encounters can surely produce inks - and potentially even healing potions depending on what your DM thinks is right for the campaign setting. Making plate armor is tougher, though I would let a forge cleric do their thing if they gather the materials and have the proficiency. A conjuration wizard could surely conjure a forge. Maybe a transmutation wizard turns all the metal into wood, then a carpenter carves the wood into plate before it reverts to metal? Turn the metal to clay and then the potter shapes it into plates? Incense is made through herbalism or alchemy of herbs and flowers - flowers are probably sufficiently rare in Barovia as to be worth 10g pretty quickly. In short, all those non-combat skills in the character builder are likely useful in Barovia. As a group, you can use them creatively.
Lastly, my wizard has a sage background and their backstory is that they were a grad student who ran away from the college upon discovering a dark magical secret in the archives. As such, being a 3rd level wizard, I felt it appropriate for them to have 100-200g of transcribing supplies in their schoolbag. Same way an art student would have some art supplies.
Hopefully these options inspire some DMs or give players something to propose to their DMs. And, most importantly, if you're playing a wizard in Barovia and don't like it, just roll a non-wizard in 2 sessions when you inevitably die ;)
Can't the wizard who finds a spell book just use that spell book as their own? Have two spell books?
Also, I see people said that the DM is being nice by creating another vendor who didn't exist in the adventure who has the items that the players want, but it doesn't seem useful or kind if everything that the vendor sells is too expensive for the players to buy, lol.
Can't the wizard who finds a spell book just use that spell book as their own? Have two spell books?
No, a found spellbook doesn't have the spells written in the wizard's shorthand. They can decipher the spells and copy them into their own spellbook, but they can't directly memorize from it. I suppose if I were DM and resources were scarce (such as in CoS) I would allow them to memorize spells from it, but every time they changed to a new spell from the book they'd have to spend the 2hr per spell level (1hr for specialty school) to decipher it.
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Hi,
If "hate" is a strong word I'll admit I am a bit disdraught after the events of the last session. I am playing Curse of Strahd for the first time and for many in our group of 7 players it's our first experience with dnd.
Last session we crossed the land towards the town of Valaki to accomplish our quest by the lake. Knowing I'm a wizard, my DM created a shop out of town where we could buy and sell magic stuff. I saw there the chance to finally buy the materials I needed to transcribe some of the spells i found in a spellbook in the death house at the START of the campaign...
But the cost for even the incense to bring my familiar back costs 10 times it's normal price... and it's the same for the rare inks I nees to transcribe spells... So needless to say I couldn't afford anything and that's when I first regretted making a Wizard...
I love that class but it's an expensive class to play in the base game and if I have to spend 500 gold to transcribe the identify spell into my spellbook then pay 1000 gp to buy a perl to cast it, i think I'm better off paying the 10 gold pieces it cost me to have the spell cast on the items I showed the witch...
Sorry for the long post but I thought some context was needed here. My question is : Is the pricing supposed to be that high (x10) for class essentials items like my "fine ink" and incense ?
Thank your for your time and answers.
I have the means to look that up but I won't even bother. That is an absurd rule and therefore, I would never apply it nor abide by it. The truth is that wizards are the class most constrained by the economy in the first place, to set prices the way you describe seems to be a targeted disincentive for that class.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
I intend to talk to my DM about it since learning all the spells from the spellbook we found eons ago would require 4500 gold pieces worth of ink... that means my group of SEVEN people would need to make about 30000 gold pieces of profit before lvl 5-6 to even be worth learning...
It's her first campaign as a DM and she's never been a player much. But we're friends so I'm sure we'll sort it out.
Thank you for your answer :)
Everything in curse of strahd is more expansive, I think Valaki says PHB items are 5 times more that what is listed. So I see where your DM is connecting (wrongly in my opinion) this to the wizard's cost for scribing spells.
My DM says it's supposed to be 10 times more expensive... I hope she listens to reason because right now she doesn't seem to understand the issue from my point of view.
I get that Curse of Strahd is hardcore but I just don't understand why I would loot a spellbook at lvl 1-2 and NEVER be able to scribe any spell from it before lvl 15...
My DM offers that the merchant will have a possibility to offer a discount if we go and see her again. But I don't think it'll be enough at all.
I've told her that people on this thread agree with me and she's gonna check the issue with a DM group she's talking with.
Thanks for answering though :)
Any game I've ever dmed or played in never required a wizard to actually buy the stuff. Remove gold and add spell is usually how it goes.
Also note the rules say that you have to spend x gold to to buy ink and stuff. It never actually says how much you have to buy.
The stockyard in valaki definitely says 5x, I think there is another town that says 10x...
Technically, he's doing it wrong in a way that favors your PC. Bildrath only sells 'items from the Adventurer's Gear table in the player's handbook, but only items with a price less than 25 gp in the table'. As the wizard supplies are neither in the adventurer's gear table nor 25 gp or less, he's not supposed to offer them at all.
In practice, the DM should probably be offering an alternate means of getting at least some supplies. Though a wizard is viable without scribing any spells at all, just not as flexible.
I think you got it a little wrong. My DM created an npc who's named Jenny and she buys the special stuff we came to find.
She also "sells" my class essentials at 10 times the normal price.
But we figured out some kind of solution. She's going to ask for a big favor in exchange for supplies of "rare inks" and incense.
Thank you for your answer though :)
I'm afraid but, maybe this is the problem. It is an error to try to dungeonmaster if you don't even play more than a couple of times. Does anybody else in your table can rule the adventure instead?
I fundamentally disagree with this; you don't need to have played the game as a player to DM. I started out DM'ing and in fact, in my 15 years playing D&D, I've been a player for a 1.5 year campaign and 2 one-shots. That's it.
In my opinion, DM'ing and playing a PC are very different experiences and you can be be good at one without ever having done the other. Knowing the rules is just a tiny fraction of either.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I think the point is that DMing with little experience has a higher risk of consequences for the whole table.
It is true that ya gotta start somewhere, but curse of strahd would not be my recommendation for a firsttime DM.
That being said; give the DM feedback, that is the best way forward I think.
Jesus Saves!... Everyone else takes damage.
I would point out two things.
1) If things cost 10x, then you should be able sell things for 10x. Make a trade. If you picked the scholar's pack, that sells for 40 gp = 400 gp value. Just be sure to negotiate the right to use the ink pen to transcribe your new spells before you sell it.
2) The cost is to scribe the spell into your book, not to learn it. I would ask to be allowed (house rule) to simply learn how to read that particular spellbook, perhaps by scribing your notes in the margins of the old spell book. Doing so in effect might reduce your cost. Thus I would propose that the cost for converting the old spellbook to yours would be 10gp per level of ink, rather than 50gp. 10x10 = 100 gp per level, so using Cursed prices, you only end up paying double, but you have to lug around an extra spellbook.
3
Things cost 10x as much because the merchant is gouging the adventurers that came from outside the mists.
I would note that in general the economy of CoS is designed to screw with any class that is reliant on equipment, it's not targeting the wizard per se. There's also a gross shortage of magical services. The DM is correctly following the general theme of the module. Now, the general theme might be poor game play, but on the particular issue of wizard spellbooks: there's no real need to *ever* scribe a scroll. Just rely on your two free spells per level.
I'd also petition to your party to help pay for essentials. If you're playing the wizard well, they should be willing to pitch in.
Regarding the GM's ruling, I think they made a sound choice and are doing right by making a merchant just for you. Go with it!
It's worth noting that going to a forum to get a bunch of people to effectively sign a digital petition you can bring to your DM and say "All these people say you suck! Gimme what I want!" is super bad form. Your DM is absolutely working within the spirit of the module - gear of any sort is really frickin' hard to come by in Barovia, and despite what the Internet may think, wizards are not entitled to add every spell they come across to their spellbook whenever they like and have two hundred spells in their repertoire by level six. Not any more than fighters are 'entitled' to +2 platemail. Any spells a wizard can add to their spellbook are extras, especially since they already get more spells through simply leveling up than any other casting class. Ask the bard or sorcerer how torn up they are that you can't copy all those fancy new spells into your spellbook.
That said? You need [X]gp worth of stuff to get your book sorted. That doesn't mean it has to personally cost you [X] gold pieces. Obtain it. Find a supply and have the rogue steal it. Offer services in trade, the way the DM is working on. If you have the right tool proficiencies, try to make it yourself. Rather than carping on the DM to just let you do it the easy way and getting a bunch of Internet strangers to carp for you when that dopesn't work, try thinking like a hyperintelligent wizard in a situation where their normal resources aren't available would. Play the role and solve the issue.
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Hey,
So first off this wasn't a petition. I didn't go to my DM telling her that I wanted the easy way that's not my style.
The solution we agreed on was a quest in order to obtain basic materials like incense and "rare inks". If it helps you understand why I go to forums to ask questions like that, it's to have a broader vision of how fair a situation is.
A side note to make you understand I am nor ill intended or a bad player either. My DM originally came to me offering this quest saying that the reward would be an INFINITE supply of scribing materials and incense while in Barovia. I was the one who told her that this was way too much and that it broke my class gameplay wise. I mean, why would I need gold after that ? I won't be able to buy anything magical anyway so why even bother ? So I told her no. A finite amount of materials makes much more sense.
Perhaps generally speaking wizards don't need to scribe spells in their spellbook to be efficient but it was a part of the game I was really looking forward to when I started the game.
I thank you for your answer though and I assure you that I will be even more careful than I've already been with what I ask my DM in the future.
I know this was back in May but this topic comes up any time someone plays a wizard in Curse of Strahd so I will comment. I am DMing CoS for a wizard as well as a pact of the tome warlock right now. These are the different approaches I can imagine best tackle this issue.
First, the CoS book specifically states that items for sale are 10x the price in Barovia and 5x at the other place. Your DM is not mistaken, and has very kindly created an extra store for you despite the RAW. Barovia is intentionally devoid of gear improvements. Wizards are not meant to liberally transcribe spells; fighters and paladins are not meant to upgrade their chain mail to plate; consuming arrows is meant to be a slap in the pocketbook. In other words - it is not a flaw, it is a feature of Barovia. Mechanically, a wizard gets 2 spells per level and does not *need* those extra spells any more than the fighter *needs* plate armor. Keep in mind that balance is only relative to your party, not other players in other settings.
That said - it feels disproportionately bad for wizards to find the books and not be able to use them, which does not happen to other classes. In this sense, removing the spellbooks from the game's loot entirely could weirdly enough be a solution if your DM wants to preserve the general scarcity vibe of Barovia - though this is not a solution in your particular case.
If the DM is ok with compromising the setting's sense of scarcity, there are a variety of solutions available.
The most heavy-handed solution is to read the rules literally and just not think any more about it. The rules do not require a wizard to buy 50g of ink. It says you spend 50g on random materials while experimenting with the spell, including good quality ink. If your DM wanted to find a way to interpret the rules to let you transcribe, they could allow the use of materials harvested from monsters and whatnot to be used according to their non-Barovia value. I personally found this to be a suitable solution for my warlock. In her case, the blood of aberrations and suitably powerful monsters will serve as rare inks for her eldritch tome.
If your DM *really* wants it to work out generously for your wizard, another solution is to just claim that like any skilled wizard would do, the last 50 pages of every spell book are false and are used to hold transcription materials. Then, whenever you find a spell book, you also find enough transcription materials to copy one or two spells from it. Wizards are absolutely not meant to have the cash on hand to copy every single spell from every spell book they find, especially not in a campaign where none of the other classes get their usual money-driven upgrades such as plate armor. This is the solution I have used for my wizard.
If your DM simply doesn't care about you transcribing a bunch of spells, they can rule that you simply spend the 50g from your inventory. I don't like this solution because it lacks flavour but then lots of DMS, and, in my experience, most players, would prefer this. Most people playing this game honestly just want a sting of vaguely interconnected combats. And you probably still won't have so much money available to you that you can transcribe willy-nilly. At the end of the day, it doesn't make any less sense than the warlock suddenly having a spellbook appear at level 3 or magically being able to add spells to the book for free on level-up. It is important to keep realism in context.
Lastly - and this is a solution for other issues as well - the game has tool proficiencies right there in the character builder. Xanathar's has details for more specific ways to use them. A ranger with proficiency with the correct tools can surely make her own arrows. An alchemist who spends the time to scour the woods and fight off the random encounters can surely produce inks - and potentially even healing potions depending on what your DM thinks is right for the campaign setting. Making plate armor is tougher, though I would let a forge cleric do their thing if they gather the materials and have the proficiency. A conjuration wizard could surely conjure a forge. Maybe a transmutation wizard turns all the metal into wood, then a carpenter carves the wood into plate before it reverts to metal? Turn the metal to clay and then the potter shapes it into plates? Incense is made through herbalism or alchemy of herbs and flowers - flowers are probably sufficiently rare in Barovia as to be worth 10g pretty quickly. In short, all those non-combat skills in the character builder are likely useful in Barovia. As a group, you can use them creatively.
Lastly, my wizard has a sage background and their backstory is that they were a grad student who ran away from the college upon discovering a dark magical secret in the archives. As such, being a 3rd level wizard, I felt it appropriate for them to have 100-200g of transcribing supplies in their schoolbag. Same way an art student would have some art supplies.
Hopefully these options inspire some DMs or give players something to propose to their DMs. And, most importantly, if you're playing a wizard in Barovia and don't like it, just roll a non-wizard in 2 sessions when you inevitably die ;)
Can't the wizard who finds a spell book just use that spell book as their own? Have two spell books?
Also, I see people said that the DM is being nice by creating another vendor who didn't exist in the adventure who has the items that the players want, but it doesn't seem useful or kind if everything that the vendor sells is too expensive for the players to buy, lol.
No, a found spellbook doesn't have the spells written in the wizard's shorthand. They can decipher the spells and copy them into their own spellbook, but they can't directly memorize from it. I suppose if I were DM and resources were scarce (such as in CoS) I would allow them to memorize spells from it, but every time they changed to a new spell from the book they'd have to spend the 2hr per spell level (1hr for specialty school) to decipher it.