Agreed, there's no particular balance issue either way, consistency is the only real balance issue. Being permitted to move an AOE onto an enemy, vs. requiring enemies to be moved onto AOE's, doesn't really effect damage intensity (how much damage any given creature can expect to take over several rounds), but does effect damage spread (how many creatures on the battlefield can be expected to be caught by the AOE). More total damage on the field makes battles more snappy, and increasing damage spread lets the DM pack a battle with more enemies for more cinematic encounters, without really changing how quickly any given enemy can be brought down in a way that would lower their threat to the party. I think greater AOE spead is pretty much a net positive for most parties in most encounters, letting the party mop up chaff quicker without speeding up their takedown of the main threat.
I'm aware of the "design intent" statement in SAC, I just don't particularly care about it, intent is not RAW. When faced with two equally RAW interpretations, one of which is fun and makes battle more productive, and one of which matches "design intent," I know which I prefer.
There are absolutely balance implications if you rule against the RAW, RAI, and SAC on this and go homebrewing it.
Namely, the number of targets you can affect goes up dramatically, and their ability to intentionally avoid these effects goes away. You could just move the effect wherever they move and keep hitting them (and as many targets as you want on the way). Moonbeam becomes a death laser just eradicating everything in a pretty significant area every turn.
Just compare. Moonbeam is a 5ft radius.Normally it can affect like 4 squares a round max. (Unless we get flying involved but for simplistic comparison sake, assume all ground targets) But if just clipping someone while moving the spell effect's area counted as them "entering" the area? You could death laser everything from its current start of turn location 60ft in a line all the way to where it comes to rest. That's 28 squares.
4 vs 28.
That is not a small change in balance.
Edit: Also just imagine the ridiculous strategies that develop from this, where a Spirit Guardian'd up cleric is using the dash action and speed boosts to simply run around the battlefield in a giant circle to affect hundreds of squares. That so silly.
You're right pal. The other dudes are being obtuse.
I don't believe most people think that moving an AoE involves running a saw blade of damage through all locations found between points A and B. I think of Moonbeam popping out of existence and appearing somewhere else. Same with anything that can be moved as an ability, spell, whatever. Spirit Totem, Dawn, etc. Doing a drive by with auras is different, taking damage on their turn as opposed to immediately only matters if a creature/target can move as a reaction or has legendary actions, or if you move past the enemy before the enemies turn comes up(your loss). Kinda like running through a fire except the fire speeds by you instead. Chasing a vampire with Moonbeam is annoying AF...just had to be said.
Agreed, there's no particular balance issue either way, consistency is the only real balance issue. Being permitted to move an AOE onto an enemy, vs. requiring enemies to be moved onto AOE's, doesn't really effect damage intensity (how much damage any given creature can expect to take over several rounds), but does effect damage spread (how many creatures on the battlefield can be expected to be caught by the AOE). More total damage on the field makes battles more snappy, and increasing damage spread lets the DM pack a battle with more enemies for more cinematic encounters, without really changing how quickly any given enemy can be brought down in a way that would lower their threat to the party. I think greater AOE spead is pretty much a net positive for most parties in most encounters, letting the party mop up chaff quicker without speeding up their takedown of the main threat.
I'm aware of the "design intent" statement in SAC, I just don't particularly care about it, intent is not RAW. When faced with two equally RAW interpretations, one of which is fun and makes battle more productive, and one of which matches "design intent," I know which I prefer.
wouldn’t this tactic effectively double damage per round for some creatures? If a creature moves the spell into the space of a creature under your ruling, they are taking an extra instance of damage that round, unintended by the designers. Basically your ruling doubles DPR, or forces creatures to only ready actions to move out of the way so as to avoid double DPR. That’s horribly unbalanced without even considering the “drive-by” effect mentioned by others
It sure would. Allowing this would turn a spell that should have an average potential of maybe 6d8 per round - already pretty incredible - into 16d8 or more per round. Super balanced.
It doesn’t increase DPR against any single enemy, just allows more enemies to be included in the AOE. Gives AOE casters an build/strategy to work towards other than “Warcaster, Resilient Con, and high AC”, and generally deals damage across the board to more chaff units (speeding up battle). Desirable on both ends.
It doesn’t increase DPR against any single enemy, just allows more enemies to be included in the AOE. Gives AOE casters an build/strategy to work towards other than “Warcaster, Resilient Con, and high AC”, and generally deals damage across the board to more chaff units (speeding up battle). Desirable on both ends.
It absolutely does increase DPR against single targets. Under intended design, the spell will damage a creature only if they enter (by their body moving into the aura, not the aura moving into it) or if they start their turn there. At most, that will be one damage instance per round, barring the creature moving on someone else’s turn and moving into the field. Under your interpretation they will take damage when the caster moves the aura over them, and again at the start of their own turn. That is twice the intended design damage, every round of the caster is chasing them.
How would it deal damage twice? On their turn, they’re either in the area (damage), or not. On your turn, if they’re in the area, moving off and then back on would not re-trigger damage, they’re already in it; but if they’re not in it, moving onto them triggers damage.
Either way, they’ll take damage at once most per round, just like your interpretation. Allowing the AOE to zoom around only ensures that more enemies are hit once per round, it doesn’t let you hit an enemy more often.
On Round 1, cleric casts Spirit Guardians; Hobgoblin (HG) is in the aura. On HGs turn, it takes damage due to being in the aura, and then moves out of the aura to avoid further damage
on Round 2, Cleric moves so the aura envelops the HG. The design intent says the HG takes no damage, your intent says it does. Then on the HGs, turn, it takes the damage. That would the first time with design intent or the second time with yours. That’s the situation I’m talking about, and it represents an issue where it would make more sense for the creature to just stay in the aura, because fleeing actually is the worse scenario, unless the HG can outrun the cleric (unlikely due to the difficult terrain inside)
How would it deal damage twice? On their turn, they’re either in the area (damage), or not. On your turn, if they’re in the area, moving off and then back on would not re-trigger damage, they’re already in it; but if they’re not in it, moving onto them triggers damage.
Either way, they’ll take damage at once most per round, just like your interpretation. Allowing the AOE to zoom around only ensures that more enemies are hit once per round, it doesn’t let you hit an enemy more often.
C'mon mate. You know you understand this. We know you understand this. So now you know we know you understand this. Ruling against the RAW, RAI, and SAC on this does have balance implications. Can you still do it? of course! One of the great things about D&D is the Rule of Fun trumps all the others. if it makes your games better go right on ahead and do it. Just, do it with the knowledge that 1. It's homebrew, and 2, it has balance implications.
Example: With your version of things. Cast Spell at Enemy, they take damage. Your turn ends, theirs starts, they take damage again. They run, end their turn. You turn, beam lands on top of them again, they take damage again, your turn ends. Theirs starts... and, they take damage again.
They're taking damage twice. Per. Round. (And cannot escape) So you're going from 4 to 28 target squares a round and also doubling the number of times it affects creatures. That's a pretty significant buff to these kinds of effects.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Ah I see what you’re saying… if the enemy chooses to run, and you chase it and stop on it, then it takes twice. But the enemies that (1) don’t run or (2) that you don’t end on, won’t. Which is… probably most enemies.
Meh, unbothered, still prefer it that way and dont see any issues.
Ah I see what you’re saying… if the enemy chooses to run, and you chase it and stop on it, then it takes twice. But the enemies that (1) don’t run or (2) that you don’t end on, won’t. Which is… probably most enemies.
Meh, unbothered, still prefer it that way and dont see any issues.
I mean, that's fine if that is what you want to do, just know you are handing a substantial boon to your players (and it will mostly be your players, because I only know a few monsters with access to that spell (and ones with similar effects) outside of homebrew.
In most combats, the significance of this is whether 2-3 monsters will be subjected to this in the first round of the spell, or the first round the cleric moves up to them, rather than waiting until their initiative turn. I disagree that it’s “substantial,” just a way to make the cleric feel the effect of their spell right when it’s cast rather than putting a 5 minute snooze button on it before it gets a chance to shine.
Ah I see what you’re saying… if the enemy chooses to run, and you chase it and stop on it, then it takes twice. But the enemies that (1) don’t run or (2) that you don’t end on, won’t. Which is… probably most enemies.
Meh, unbothered, still prefer it that way and dont see any issues.
The primary attack tactic here is as follows:
Cast Spirit Guardians before combat begins, if possible, since its duration is 10 minutes.
During battle, your primary job is the standard Booming Blade trick of moving in, stabbing, and then retreating, so your target needs to move to follow you, but doing so will trigger BB's second allotment of damage. Note that this is a standard tactic already for e.g. Arcana Clerics - BB + SG is a great combo, since your opponent gets penalized twice for chasing you. You can flee safely by e.g. being a goblin.
But now it's worse, since your target takes SG damage in addition to BB damage on the charge. That's double the damage SG would deal without your interpretation.
I don't know how powerful the combo is per se, under a DM with potentially other house rules in place as well - a very significant game-changer is if your DM is overriding the RAW and letting War Caster work on Booming Blade, which I know is a popular house rule. If you're under such a house rule and have War Caster, your primary plan isn't to retreat - you charge in, stab, and stay there, hoping your enemy will flee SG and therefore let you OA BB, until/unless you change the game again with PAM.
I don't see why you assume the cleric will wait until they're near enemies to cast SG, Chicken_Champ. Ruled your way, the optimal tactic would be to cast it before/at the start of combat, and then run up to the enemies, making them take damage twice. If the cleric rolls a good initiative, and enemies are clumped up and not too far away - pretty standard - they can enter combat like a wrecking ball.
There's also another big problem with your ruling, such as this hypothetical situation:
Cleric is high in initiative order, the Enemy is low. The Cleric casts SG, moves up to Enemy, triggering 3d8 (or half) damage. Then, on the Enemy's turn, they take 3d8 damage again. The Enemy stays in the AoE, attacking the Cleric, but not breaking their concentration. A new round begins. Now, on the Cleric's turn at the top of the round - given your ruling - there's no reason the Cleric couldn't move 20 feet away so the Enemy leaves the AoE, and then turn around and move towards the Enemy again, enveloping them in the AoE once more, once again triggering damage. It would be, after all, the first time the Enemy enters the AoE on a turn. Then, when the enemy's turn comes up at the end of the round, they take damage again. That's 4 times (12d8 damage) in 2 rounds, to a single target with an AoE spell.
Heck, another ridiculous tactic would be for a cleric's party members to each Grapple the cleric on their turns, dragging them away from and then back towards enemies, catching them in the edge of the AoE on every party member's turn.
I think the fact that you use the phrase “enter it again” is pretty clear why they are not entering it “for the first time” that turn. If an enemy is in the clerics AOE on the Clerics turn, then walking away and then turning around and coming back does not make it enter for the first time.
yes this interpretation lets a Cleric cast spirit guardians and walk up to a clump of enemies or walk up to a clump of enemies and cast spirit guardians and actually affect them rather than waiting until the enemies’ turn to check. that is exactly what I am saying, yes. what I’m not seeing is why that’s a bad thing, when compared against walking up to the clump of enemies casting a spell and then having to wait five minutes of gameplay before anybody actually rolls damage against that clump of enemies for the first time, by which time the DM may have forgotten about it, or somebody else may have forgotten about it and attacked those enemies and killed them, or the Cleric may have been attacked and lost concentration, or it may be a creature with legendary actions or a reaction that just walks away through the spell as if it isn’t there. When a player casts a spell it should do something meaningful to impact the battlefield, not be invited to wait and see. “ you cast spirit guardians? OK cool remind me about that when the enemies turn comes up because I’m probably going to forget…” is a lot less engaging than just casting a spell, rolling some damage, and describing a cool narrative affect right then and there. Just let casters get to the good parts, quit with all of the foreplay and confusion with AOEs.
Ah I see what you’re saying… if the enemy chooses to run, and you chase it and stop on it, then it takes twice. But the enemies that (1) don’t run or (2) that you don’t end on, won’t. Which is… probably most enemies.
Meh, unbothered, still prefer it that way and dont see any issues.
If an enemy doesn't run the meta will be to shift it to a different cluster of enemies every round, such that it triggers on the x2 a round anyway. No matter how you slice it, this spell in the hands of a slightly tactical minded player is going to be doing at least x2 damage from rules as written.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I think the fact that you use the phrase enter it again is pretty clear why they are not entering it for the first time that turn. If an enemy is in the clerics AOE on the Clerics turn, then walking away and then turning around and coming back does not make it enter for the first time.
I never said "enter again," I said they take damage again, but still, why? It's the Cleric's turn, not the enemy's, and if the Cleric moves away and then back, that's the first time the enemy "enters" it on that turn. Being in it at the start of the Cleric's turn is not entering it - even by your skewed definition of the word. There's no logic to what you're saying.
When a player casts a spell it should do something meaningful to impact the battlefield
If you honestly think creating a gigantic "f*** you" zone in the middle of a battlefield that will damage anyone who enters - or is already in it and starts their turn as such - doesn't meaningfully impact combat, then I'm at a loss. You want to turn spells that are intended for control into bombs.
Heck, another ridiculous tactic would be for a cleric's party members to each Grapple the cleric on their turns, dragging them away from and then back towards enemies, catching them in the edge of the AoE on every party member's turn.
Oh man... Peace Clerics. Their L6 ability lets them teleport and take a hit for someone else as a reaction. That'd move the whole aura with them during the enemy's turn and trigger a full new damage instance trigger for the whole spell effect area all over again. Oh man, the number of ways to break this really is large when you start to consider it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It will deal damage maybe one more time per enemy per combat, you’re exaggerating.
But again, if you’d rather interpret RAI on this your way, feel free. My point is only that (1) the plain English allows my ruling as RAW, with RAI unclear without reference to outside sources (SAC), and (2) I think my ruling is more RAF and better for combat flow than the alternative.
I think the fact that you use the phrase “enter it again” is pretty clear why they are not entering it “for the first time” that turn. If an enemy is in the clerics AOE on the Clerics turn, then walking away and then turning around and coming back does not make it enter for the first time.
So you're actually just ruling it that they enter for the first time on the cleric's turn just by being there???
So it triggers just automatically on the clerics turn as well as and on top of trigger on the enemy's turns? So you're just doubling (or more) the damage by default? Or are you having it just do damage every turn?? That's potentially an unlimited amount of damage per round...
Edit: I think I misunderstood you. You're saying if they started in the area they're already there and can't enter it 'for the first time" on that turn. We have a different conceptualization of that trigger.
I see "enter for the first time" and think: The first time you cross the threshold from outside that area to the inside of that area.
You think: Go into the area and not have been in it yet this round.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
To be clear… Spirit Guardians is a giant meat grinder a cleric drops into the battlefield. That’s true, already. Concerned that the cleric can cast the spell, walk up to a group, and grind them? Already true, either way. Only way for enemies to escape is burst down the cleric to kill them or break concentration? Already true. Nothing about the spells use, or expected damage to a target over 2-4 rounds, changes by letting the AOE do damage when an enemy first enters it rather than only when they start their turn in it. OAs are still a thing monsters do to discourage zoomers, attacking the cleric is both the best defense against SG and probably what enemies are interested in doing anyway, the cleric already can walk around combat to bring new enemies into the AOE if they try to run, etc. I think you all are building paper tigers in your mind of some ridiculous edge case, when again, the practical impact of this is… 6-12 damage when the cleric casts or walks up, once, rather than just 6-12 at the start of each turn. It’s not going to make Clerics the new DPS kings of 5E by any stretch, just makes “you’re surrounded by a damaging aura” more intuitive for players.
I don't believe most people think that moving an AoE involves running a saw blade of damage through all locations found between points A and B. I think of Moonbeam popping out of existence and appearing somewhere else. Same with anything that can be moved as an ability, spell, whatever. Spirit Totem, Dawn, etc. Doing a drive by with auras is different, taking damage on their turn as opposed to immediately only matters if a creature/target can move as a reaction or has legendary actions, or if you move past the enemy before the enemies turn comes up(your loss). Kinda like running through a fire except the fire speeds by you instead. Chasing a vampire with Moonbeam is annoying AF...just had to be said.
wouldn’t this tactic effectively double damage per round for some creatures? If a creature moves the spell into the space of a creature under your ruling, they are taking an extra instance of damage that round, unintended by the designers. Basically your ruling doubles DPR, or forces creatures to only ready actions to move out of the way so as to avoid double DPR. That’s horribly unbalanced without even considering the “drive-by” effect mentioned by others
It sure would. Allowing this would turn a spell that should have an average potential of maybe 6d8 per round - already pretty incredible - into 16d8 or more per round. Super balanced.
It doesn’t increase DPR against any single enemy, just allows more enemies to be included in the AOE. Gives AOE casters an build/strategy to work towards other than “Warcaster, Resilient Con, and high AC”, and generally deals damage across the board to more chaff units (speeding up battle). Desirable on both ends.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
It absolutely does increase DPR against single targets. Under intended design, the spell will damage a creature only if they enter (by their body moving into the aura, not the aura moving into it) or if they start their turn there. At most, that will be one damage instance per round, barring the creature moving on someone else’s turn and moving into the field. Under your interpretation they will take damage when the caster moves the aura over them, and again at the start of their own turn. That is twice the intended design damage, every round of the caster is chasing them.
How would it deal damage twice? On their turn, they’re either in the area (damage), or not. On your turn, if they’re in the area, moving off and then back on would not re-trigger damage, they’re already in it; but if they’re not in it, moving onto them triggers damage.
Either way, they’ll take damage at once most per round, just like your interpretation. Allowing the AOE to zoom around only ensures that more enemies are hit once per round, it doesn’t let you hit an enemy more often.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
On Round 1, cleric casts Spirit Guardians; Hobgoblin (HG) is in the aura. On HGs turn, it takes damage due to being in the aura, and then moves out of the aura to avoid further damage
on Round 2, Cleric moves so the aura envelops the HG. The design intent says the HG takes no damage, your intent says it does. Then on the HGs, turn, it takes the damage. That would the first time with design intent or the second time with yours. That’s the situation I’m talking about, and it represents an issue where it would make more sense for the creature to just stay in the aura, because fleeing actually is the worse scenario, unless the HG can outrun the cleric (unlikely due to the difficult terrain inside)
C'mon mate. You know you understand this. We know you understand this. So now you know we know you understand this. Ruling against the RAW, RAI, and SAC on this does have balance implications. Can you still do it? of course! One of the great things about D&D is the Rule of Fun trumps all the others. if it makes your games better go right on ahead and do it. Just, do it with the knowledge that 1. It's homebrew, and 2, it has balance implications.
Example: With your version of things. Cast Spell at Enemy, they take damage. Your turn ends, theirs starts, they take damage again. They run, end their turn. You turn, beam lands on top of them again, they take damage again, your turn ends. Theirs starts... and, they take damage again.
They're taking damage twice. Per. Round. (And cannot escape) So you're going from 4 to 28 target squares a round and also doubling the number of times it affects creatures. That's a pretty significant buff to these kinds of effects.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Ah I see what you’re saying… if the enemy chooses to run, and you chase it and stop on it, then it takes twice. But the enemies that (1) don’t run or (2) that you don’t end on, won’t. Which is… probably most enemies.
Meh, unbothered, still prefer it that way and dont see any issues.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I mean, that's fine if that is what you want to do, just know you are handing a substantial boon to your players (and it will mostly be your players, because I only know a few monsters with access to that spell (and ones with similar effects) outside of homebrew.
In most combats, the significance of this is whether 2-3 monsters will be subjected to this in the first round of the spell, or the first round the cleric moves up to them, rather than waiting until their initiative turn. I disagree that it’s “substantial,” just a way to make the cleric feel the effect of their spell right when it’s cast rather than putting a 5 minute snooze button on it before it gets a chance to shine.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The primary attack tactic here is as follows:
I don't know how powerful the combo is per se, under a DM with potentially other house rules in place as well - a very significant game-changer is if your DM is overriding the RAW and letting War Caster work on Booming Blade, which I know is a popular house rule. If you're under such a house rule and have War Caster, your primary plan isn't to retreat - you charge in, stab, and stay there, hoping your enemy will flee SG and therefore let you OA BB, until/unless you change the game again with PAM.
I don't see why you assume the cleric will wait until they're near enemies to cast SG, Chicken_Champ. Ruled your way, the optimal tactic would be to cast it before/at the start of combat, and then run up to the enemies, making them take damage twice. If the cleric rolls a good initiative, and enemies are clumped up and not too far away - pretty standard - they can enter combat like a wrecking ball.
There's also another big problem with your ruling, such as this hypothetical situation:
Cleric is high in initiative order, the Enemy is low. The Cleric casts SG, moves up to Enemy, triggering 3d8 (or half) damage. Then, on the Enemy's turn, they take 3d8 damage again. The Enemy stays in the AoE, attacking the Cleric, but not breaking their concentration. A new round begins. Now, on the Cleric's turn at the top of the round - given your ruling - there's no reason the Cleric couldn't move 20 feet away so the Enemy leaves the AoE, and then turn around and move towards the Enemy again, enveloping them in the AoE once more, once again triggering damage. It would be, after all, the first time the Enemy enters the AoE on a turn. Then, when the enemy's turn comes up at the end of the round, they take damage again. That's 4 times (12d8 damage) in 2 rounds, to a single target with an AoE spell.
Heck, another ridiculous tactic would be for a cleric's party members to each Grapple the cleric on their turns, dragging them away from and then back towards enemies, catching them in the edge of the AoE on every party member's turn.
I think the fact that you use the phrase “enter it again” is pretty clear why they are not entering it “for the first time” that turn. If an enemy is in the clerics AOE on the Clerics turn, then walking away and then turning around and coming back does not make it enter for the first time.
yes this interpretation lets a Cleric cast spirit guardians and walk up to a clump of enemies or walk up to a clump of enemies and cast spirit guardians and actually affect them rather than waiting until the enemies’ turn to check. that is exactly what I am saying, yes. what I’m not seeing is why that’s a bad thing, when compared against walking up to the clump of enemies casting a spell and then having to wait five minutes of gameplay before anybody actually rolls damage against that clump of enemies for the first time, by which time the DM may have forgotten about it, or somebody else may have forgotten about it and attacked those enemies and killed them, or the Cleric may have been attacked and lost concentration, or it may be a creature with legendary actions or a reaction that just walks away through the spell as if it isn’t there. When a player casts a spell it should do something meaningful to impact the battlefield, not be invited to wait and see. “ you cast spirit guardians? OK cool remind me about that when the enemies turn comes up because I’m probably going to forget…” is a lot less engaging than just casting a spell, rolling some damage, and describing a cool narrative affect right then and there. Just let casters get to the good parts, quit with all of the foreplay and confusion with AOEs.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
If an enemy doesn't run the meta will be to shift it to a different cluster of enemies every round, such that it triggers on the x2 a round anyway. No matter how you slice it, this spell in the hands of a slightly tactical minded player is going to be doing at least x2 damage from rules as written.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I never said "enter again," I said they take damage again, but still, why? It's the Cleric's turn, not the enemy's, and if the Cleric moves away and then back, that's the first time the enemy "enters" it on that turn. Being in it at the start of the Cleric's turn is not entering it - even by your skewed definition of the word. There's no logic to what you're saying.
If you honestly think creating a gigantic "f*** you" zone in the middle of a battlefield that will damage anyone who enters - or is already in it and starts their turn as such - doesn't meaningfully impact combat, then I'm at a loss. You want to turn spells that are intended for control into bombs.
Oh man... Peace Clerics. Their L6 ability lets them teleport and take a hit for someone else as a reaction. That'd move the whole aura with them during the enemy's turn and trigger a full new damage instance trigger for the whole spell effect area all over again. Oh man, the number of ways to break this really is large when you start to consider it.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It will deal damage maybe one more time per enemy per combat, you’re exaggerating.
But again, if you’d rather interpret RAI on this your way, feel free. My point is only that (1) the plain English allows my ruling as RAW, with RAI unclear without reference to outside sources (SAC), and (2) I think my ruling is more RAF and better for combat flow than the alternative.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
So you're actually just ruling it that they enter for the first time on the cleric's turn just by being there???So it triggers just automatically on the clerics turn as well as and on top of trigger on the enemy's turns? So you're just doubling (or more) the damage by default? Or are you having it just do damage every turn?? That's potentially an unlimited amount of damage per round...Edit: I think I misunderstood you. You're saying if they started in the area they're already there and can't enter it 'for the first time" on that turn. We have a different conceptualization of that trigger.
I see "enter for the first time" and think: The first time you cross the threshold from outside that area to the inside of that area.
You think: Go into the area and not have been in it yet this round.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
To be clear… Spirit Guardians is a giant meat grinder a cleric drops into the battlefield. That’s true, already. Concerned that the cleric can cast the spell, walk up to a group, and grind them? Already true, either way. Only way for enemies to escape is burst down the cleric to kill them or break concentration? Already true. Nothing about the spells use, or expected damage to a target over 2-4 rounds, changes by letting the AOE do damage when an enemy first enters it rather than only when they start their turn in it. OAs are still a thing monsters do to discourage zoomers, attacking the cleric is both the best defense against SG and probably what enemies are interested in doing anyway, the cleric already can walk around combat to bring new enemies into the AOE if they try to run, etc. I think you all are building paper tigers in your mind of some ridiculous edge case, when again, the practical impact of this is… 6-12 damage when the cleric casts or walks up, once, rather than just 6-12 at the start of each turn. It’s not going to make Clerics the new DPS kings of 5E by any stretch, just makes “you’re surrounded by a damaging aura” more intuitive for players.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.