Can I use Vampiric Touch on subsequent runs (i.e. not the first turn I cast it) together with a bonus action spell? I interpret the special action of Vampiric Touch only as "a melee [spell] attack" and not an actual cast. So I would assume on my second turn after casting Vampiric Touch, I could siphon life using my action, then cast Healing Word as a bonus action for more healing.
Using an ongoing effect of a spell is not casting a spell., so RAW no problem. RAI I'm guessing also no problem, or a lot of spells that give you an ongoing ability to use a bonus action for something become a lot less useful.
Can I use Vampiric Touch on subsequent runs (i.e. not the first turn I cast it) together with a bonus action spell? I interpret the special action of Vampiric Touch only as "a melee [spell] attack" and not an actual cast. So I would assume on my second turn after casting Vampiric Touch, I could siphon life using my action, then cast Healing Word as a bonus action for more healing.
Is my assumption correct?
Absolutely correct, it's part of what makes spells like Vampiric Touch, Call Lightning, Spiritual Weapon etc. so useful.
Vampiric Touch is relatively weak. It's a concentration spell that you only should be casting when you are wounded, but requires a touch attack. There are not a lot of Warlocks or Wizards that want to do that. It should either drop the concentration requirement or at least make it a 30 ft range.
It seems to me to be the same as the bonus action smite spells. You can cast it on round one, then attack and hit on round two, the spell goes off, then you can cast another bonus action spell on round two.
Vampiric Touch is relatively weak. It's a concentration spell that you only should be casting when you are wounded, but requires a touch attack. There are not a lot of Warlocks or Wizards that want to do that. It should either drop the concentration requirement or at least make it a 30 ft range.
It's more niche than weak. A grave domain cleric, hexblade warlock or bladesinger wizard would do just fine in melee range, and you don't need to be significantly injured to make use of it; it's most likely not going to recover more than 14 HP. Hexblades in particular get extra damage and extra crits from Hexblade's Curse.
It wouldn't be my first choice but it's also not so bad that I'd discourage players from using it.
Unless you have Warcaster perhaps. You aren't casting a spell but, you are definitely attacking with one in effect.
War Caster requires casting a spell and targeting only the creature that provoked. Vampiric Touch doesn't qualify since it has a range of Self, so it automatically targets the caster too.
If you want a spell you can attack freely with I'd suggest Shadow Blade instead.
Inquisitive Coder, I agree with you in principle. By definition something that is niche is weak outside of it's niche. And 99% of the time something that is weak has at least one specific case where it is valuable. Consider Shadow blade which you mentioned. Creates a weapon that does 2d8. 2-16 damage. Compare with Flameblade, 3d6= 3-18. Clearly Shadowblade is 'weak' but Shadowblade is designed to be used by a rogue for sneak attack. It's a niche spell. When someone says weak, they almost always mean niche.
Also, Shadowblade also has a range of self, so you can not use with War Caster any more than Vampiric Touch.
It's pretty limited selection for 3rd level: Bestow Curse, Enemies abound and Incite Greed. None very good. I would go with a 2nd level spell, such as Suggestion, Phantasmal Force, or Mind Spike.
Inquisitive Coder, I agree with you in principle. By definition something that is niche is weak outside of it's niche. And 99% of the time something that is weak has at least one specific case where it is valuable. Consider Shadow blade which you mentioned. Creates a weapon that does 2d8. 2-16 damage. Compare with Flameblade, 3d6= 3-18.
They're actually totally different spells. Shadow Blade is a melee weapon, and thus the weapon it summons can be used for anything a melee weapon can be used for (opportunity attacks, offhand attacks, extra attack, w/e) and adds your ability score to damage (on the minus side -- it's Str or Dex). Flame Blade instead grants the ability to use your action to make a melee spell attack. I would say that shadow blade is actually a superior spell (though basically intended for gish builds, not pure casters), as there are builds where I can actually see casting the spell (I have trouble coming up with uses for Flame Blade that aren't better served by Flaming Sphere or Moonbeam).
It is a better spell for baddies to use. A lot of evil necromancers are cowards and this spell totally suits them- and thematically is great- they get hit by a guard's crossbow, survive, beat up the guard but don't kill them, and then suck the last of their life force to heal their own wounds.
Inquisitive Coder, I agree with you in principle. By definition something that is niche is weak outside of it's niche...When someone says weak, they almost always mean niche.
When someone says an option is weak I assume they're saying it's weak even within its niche. The perfect example is Witch Bolt: the situations where it'd make sense to use it are contrived. You could deal the same amount of damage spending that 1st level slot on an instantaneous damage spell and using cantrips on the subsequent turns, and you don't have to give up your concentration or worry about the enemy being more than 30 feet away.
Consider Shadow blade which you mentioned. Creates a weapon that does 2d8. 2-16 damage. Compare with Flameblade, 3d6= 3-18. Clearly Shadowblade is 'weak' but Shadowblade is designed to be used by a rogue for sneak attack. It's a niche spell.
Like Pantagruel points out, Shadow Blade is actually the better spell here. Since you can add your ability modifier the damage gap is extremely small, you can swing it more than once, use it for opportunity attacks, and you get free advantage in dim light or darkness. Just about the only advantage Flame Blade has is that it lasts 10 minutes instead of 1.
It's pretty limited selection for 3rd level: Bestow Curse, Enemies abound and Incite Greed. None very good. I would go with a 2nd level spell, such as Suggestion, Phantasmal Force, or Mind Spike.
Bestow Curse's ability to force disadvantage on a specific saving throw is pretty strong.
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Can I use Vampiric Touch on subsequent runs (i.e. not the first turn I cast it) together with a bonus action spell? I interpret the special action of Vampiric Touch only as "a melee [spell] attack" and not an actual cast. So I would assume on my second turn after casting Vampiric Touch, I could siphon life using my action, then cast Healing Word as a bonus action for more healing.
Is my assumption correct?
Using an ongoing effect of a spell is not casting a spell., so RAW no problem. RAI I'm guessing also no problem, or a lot of spells that give you an ongoing ability to use a bonus action for something become a lot less useful.
Pantagruel is right. I'm pretty sure the game's devs have never said anything about that being unintended either.
Just remember that the action from Vampiric Touch can't be used as an opportunity attack.
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Absolutely correct, it's part of what makes spells like Vampiric Touch, Call Lightning, Spiritual Weapon etc. so useful.
Vampiric Touch is relatively weak. It's a concentration spell that you only should be casting when you are wounded, but requires a touch attack. There are not a lot of Warlocks or Wizards that want to do that. It should either drop the concentration requirement or at least make it a 30 ft range.
Unless you have Warcaster perhaps. You aren't casting a spell but, you are definitely attacking with one in effect.
It seems to me to be the same as the bonus action smite spells. You can cast it on round one, then attack and hit on round two, the spell goes off, then you can cast another bonus action spell on round two.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
It's more niche than weak. A grave domain cleric, hexblade warlock or bladesinger wizard would do just fine in melee range, and you don't need to be significantly injured to make use of it; it's most likely not going to recover more than 14 HP. Hexblades in particular get extra damage and extra crits from Hexblade's Curse.
It wouldn't be my first choice but it's also not so bad that I'd discourage players from using it.
War Caster requires casting a spell and targeting only the creature that provoked. Vampiric Touch doesn't qualify since it has a range of Self, so it automatically targets the caster too.
If you want a spell you can attack freely with I'd suggest Shadow Blade instead.
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Inquisitive Coder, I agree with you in principle. By definition something that is niche is weak outside of it's niche. And 99% of the time something that is weak has at least one specific case where it is valuable. Consider Shadow blade which you mentioned. Creates a weapon that does 2d8. 2-16 damage. Compare with Flameblade, 3d6= 3-18. Clearly Shadowblade is 'weak' but Shadowblade is designed to be used by a rogue for sneak attack. It's a niche spell. When someone says weak, they almost always mean niche.
Also, Shadowblade also has a range of self, so you can not use with War Caster any more than Vampiric Touch.
It's pretty limited selection for 3rd level: Bestow Curse, Enemies abound and Incite Greed. None very good. I would go with a 2nd level spell, such as Suggestion, Phantasmal Force, or Mind Spike.
They're actually totally different spells. Shadow Blade is a melee weapon, and thus the weapon it summons can be used for anything a melee weapon can be used for (opportunity attacks, offhand attacks, extra attack, w/e) and adds your ability score to damage (on the minus side -- it's Str or Dex). Flame Blade instead grants the ability to use your action to make a melee spell attack. I would say that shadow blade is actually a superior spell (though basically intended for gish builds, not pure casters), as there are builds where I can actually see casting the spell (I have trouble coming up with uses for Flame Blade that aren't better served by Flaming Sphere or Moonbeam).
It is a better spell for baddies to use. A lot of evil necromancers are cowards and this spell totally suits them- and thematically is great- they get hit by a guard's crossbow, survive, beat up the guard but don't kill them, and then suck the last of their life force to heal their own wounds.
When someone says an option is weak I assume they're saying it's weak even within its niche. The perfect example is Witch Bolt: the situations where it'd make sense to use it are contrived. You could deal the same amount of damage spending that 1st level slot on an instantaneous damage spell and using cantrips on the subsequent turns, and you don't have to give up your concentration or worry about the enemy being more than 30 feet away.
Like Pantagruel points out, Shadow Blade is actually the better spell here. Since you can add your ability modifier the damage gap is extremely small, you can swing it more than once, use it for opportunity attacks, and you get free advantage in dim light or darkness. Just about the only advantage Flame Blade has is that it lasts 10 minutes instead of 1.
Bestow Curse's ability to force disadvantage on a specific saving throw is pretty strong.
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