Thank you! So yeah "instantly" to me means right away and before the next turn, so no Feather Fall in the same turn because you've already cast Misty Step.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
That brings us back to the simultaneous vs sequential paradox of turn-based time. If the floor drops out and several people fall together, it's hard to justify giving anyone the chance to deal with the situation unless you give everyone the chance to deal with the situation--even the player whose character has the lowest initiative in the round. And if you do decide to handle it that way, then you have to work your way through the entire initiative order before resolving the fall.
The initiative order isn't just a sequence, it also can represent reaction time. Take your scenario above and involve only two people. Just like in heroic scenes from the movies, one guy makes a save and gets a handhold almost immediately after the trapdoor drops. The second person grabs...air. The first guy, using his action, catches the falling person. In order for each person to resolve the trapdoor on their own, you would still be right though. You would have each character figure out what they had to do on their turn.
That brings us back to the simultaneous vs sequential paradox of turn-based time. If the floor drops out and several people fall together, it's hard to justify giving anyone the chance to deal with the situation unless you give everyone the chance to deal with the situation--even the player whose character has the lowest initiative in the round. And if you do decide to handle it that way, then you have to work your way through the entire initiative order before resolving the fall.
Well ... everyone who has access to a reaction whose trigger is met can do something about it, anyway. If multiple people have reactions I don't normally try and order them, just let whoever announces it first go.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Thank you! So yeah "instantly" to me means right away and before the next turn, so no Feather Fall in the same turn because you've already cast Misty Step.
If you're falling at 83.333ft per second, you better hope your Reaction does indeed trigger, in a fraction of a second, LOL!
The initiative order isn't just a sequence, it also can represent reaction time. Take your scenario above and involve only two people. Just like in heroic scenes from the movies, one guy makes a save and gets a handhold almost immediately after the trapdoor drops. The second person grabs...air. The first guy, using his action, catches the falling person. In order for each person to resolve the trapdoor on their own, you would still be right though. You would have each character figure out what they had to do on their turn.
I agree with this. And to put it in terms of the OP's statement at the beginning of this thread, even if you used your bonus action to cast a spell immediately before the fall happened, you could use your reaction out of turn for feather fall, just like someone who has not yet had their turn can use their reaction for feather fall and then on their turn, they can cast a bonus action spell if that's what they want to do. I guess what I'm saying is that the way I play it and the way I always see it played is that the fall happens during the round, not during any particular creature's turn. I can see where someone can point to RAW and say, "It says immediately!" but I think that would be a hard sell for the player who is waiting their turn to cast misty step or levitate or fly another non-reaction spell to save themselves from certain doom.
But feather fall is just one specific example of using your reaction out of turn that I propose accomplishes the same thing as though it was on your turn. In terms of other reaction spells, it might not be so easy because there are other things you may want to react to that do happen AT THAT MOMENT, like counterspell, shield, or hellish rebuke, where you can't say, "Well I can't use my reaction right now, so I'll wait until after my turn and use it then. I suppose in those cases, it's pretty rare that you would use them on your own turn anyway. But if you have used your bonus action to cast on your turn, it 's clear that you don't get a reaction spell until after your turn ends.
Changing the wording to "If you cast a bonus action spell, you may not use your action to cast a spell that is not a cantrip" accomplishes what they were probably trying to do without making bonus action spells weirdly worse than regular action spells, so it's a perfectly plausible house rule.
Changing the wording to "If you cast a bonus action spell, you may not use your action to cast a spell that is not a cantrip" accomplishes what they were probably trying to do without making bonus action spells weirdly worse than regular action spells, so it's a perfectly plausible house rule.
I don’t see how this is different than the present rule.
The present rule forbids using your action or reaction to cast a leveled spell (if you wanted to allow it with action surge, can change the wording to "If you cast a bonus action spell, you may not use your first action to cast a spell that is not a cantrip").
I use a slightly different rule that doesn't quite accomplish the same thing, but feels better to me. You can cast a leveled spell with you regular action or bonus action, but not both.
I use a slightly different rule that doesn't quite accomplish the same thing, but feels better to me. You can cast a leveled spell with you regular action or bonus action, but not both.
Yeah, that doesn't really work either. If you cast a leveled spell with an Action, there are only 2 official bonus action cantrips and 1 subclass cantrip. Magic Stone, Shillelagh and Spare the Dying(Grave Cleric version).
Unless you are saying that you allow spells that normally take an Action to cast, to be cast as a bonus action, I don't see how your version is a better distinction. Making that change has been mentioned in different places as a option though. Allowing almost any spell to be cast as a bonus action and still allowing a cantrip that takes an action to cast, would be a huge uptick in power!
I use a slightly different rule that doesn't quite accomplish the same thing, but feels better to me. You can cast a leveled spell with you regular action or bonus action, but not both.
Yeah, that doesn't really work either. If you cast a leveled spell with an Action, there are only 2 official bonus action cantrips and 1 subclass cantrip. Magic Stone, Shillelagh and Spare the Dying(Grave Cleric version).
It doesn't make a huge difference, but it's easier for people to understand, which is much more important in the long run.
I don’t see how this is different than the present rule.
The present rule forbids using your action or reactionto cast a leveled spell (if you wanted to allow it with action surge, can change the wording to "If you cast a bonus action spell, you may not use your first action to cast a spell that is not a cantrip").
Where is that explicitly stated? Genuinely curious because 5e has gone out of its way to make clear that anything accomplished by using a reaction happens outside of the normal parameters for combat flow. Reactions are their own entity that don't have an upstream interaction with action/bonus action; they operate independently, except where explicitly noted. The interactions involving them are way too niche.
Can we really say someone with War Caster would be unable to cast a spell as their reaction if they spent their BA on activating a smite spell? No, that would defeat the signature purpose of the feat.
Can we really say a Sorcerer can't counter-Counterspell if they initially cast a Quickened Fireball (burning more resources to do so), but it'd be perfectly fine if it wasn't Quickened? Really?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I don’t see how this is different than the present rule.
The present rule forbids using your action or reactionto cast a leveled spell (if you wanted to allow it with action surge, can change the wording to "If you cast a bonus action spell, you may not use your first action to cast a spell that is not a cantrip").
Where is that explicitly stated?
It isn't explicitly stated, there's just a blanket phrasing that includes no exceptions.
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
You cast a spell with a Bonus Action... can you cast another spell during your turn? No, unless it is specifically "a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
The rule sucks, quit trying to redeem it by saying that it doesn't mean exactly what it says it means.
Can we really say someone with War Caster would be unable to cast a spell as their reaction if they spent their BA on activating a smite spell? No, that would defeat the signature purpose of the feat.
War Caster using their reaction for a spell would likely not be an issue very often because the majority of the time, the trigger would occur outside of their turn.
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"Not all those who wander are lost"
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What and where is it? I've looked for it, but I can't find it.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
It can be found here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/xgte/dungeon-masters-tools#Falling
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Thank you! So yeah "instantly" to me means right away and before the next turn, so no Feather Fall in the same turn because you've already cast Misty Step.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
That brings us back to the simultaneous vs sequential paradox of turn-based time. If the floor drops out and several people fall together, it's hard to justify giving anyone the chance to deal with the situation unless you give everyone the chance to deal with the situation--even the player whose character has the lowest initiative in the round. And if you do decide to handle it that way, then you have to work your way through the entire initiative order before resolving the fall.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The initiative order isn't just a sequence, it also can represent reaction time. Take your scenario above and involve only two people. Just like in heroic scenes from the movies, one guy makes a save and gets a handhold almost immediately after the trapdoor drops. The second person grabs...air. The first guy, using his action, catches the falling person. In order for each person to resolve the trapdoor on their own, you would still be right though. You would have each character figure out what they had to do on their turn.
Well ... everyone who has access to a reaction whose trigger is met can do something about it, anyway. If multiple people have reactions I don't normally try and order them, just let whoever announces it first go.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
If you're falling at 83.333ft per second, you better hope your Reaction does indeed trigger, in a fraction of a second, LOL!
I agree with this. And to put it in terms of the OP's statement at the beginning of this thread, even if you used your bonus action to cast a spell immediately before the fall happened, you could use your reaction out of turn for feather fall, just like someone who has not yet had their turn can use their reaction for feather fall and then on their turn, they can cast a bonus action spell if that's what they want to do. I guess what I'm saying is that the way I play it and the way I always see it played is that the fall happens during the round, not during any particular creature's turn. I can see where someone can point to RAW and say, "It says immediately!" but I think that would be a hard sell for the player who is waiting their turn to cast misty step or levitate or fly another non-reaction spell to save themselves from certain doom.
But feather fall is just one specific example of using your reaction out of turn that I propose accomplishes the same thing as though it was on your turn. In terms of other reaction spells, it might not be so easy because there are other things you may want to react to that do happen AT THAT MOMENT, like counterspell, shield, or hellish rebuke, where you can't say, "Well I can't use my reaction right now, so I'll wait until after my turn and use it then. I suppose in those cases, it's pretty rare that you would use them on your own turn anyway. But if you have used your bonus action to cast on your turn, it 's clear that you don't get a reaction spell until after your turn ends.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Changing the wording to "If you cast a bonus action spell, you may not use your action to cast a spell that is not a cantrip" accomplishes what they were probably trying to do without making bonus action spells weirdly worse than regular action spells, so it's a perfectly plausible house rule.
Right on! You just fixed it. kudos!
I don’t see how this is different than the present rule.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The present rule forbids using your action or reaction to cast a leveled spell (if you wanted to allow it with action surge, can change the wording to "If you cast a bonus action spell, you may not use your first action to cast a spell that is not a cantrip").
Yeah, it's all in the details. When you put "first action" in there, it makes a lot more sense to me.
I use a slightly different rule that doesn't quite accomplish the same thing, but feels better to me. You can cast a leveled spell with you regular action or bonus action, but not both.
Yeah, that doesn't really work either. If you cast a leveled spell with an Action, there are only 2 official bonus action cantrips and 1 subclass cantrip. Magic Stone, Shillelagh and Spare the Dying(Grave Cleric version).
Unless you are saying that you allow spells that normally take an Action to cast, to be cast as a bonus action, I don't see how your version is a better distinction. Making that change has been mentioned in different places as a option though. Allowing almost any spell to be cast as a bonus action and still allowing a cantrip that takes an action to cast, would be a huge uptick in power!
It doesn't make a huge difference, but it's easier for people to understand, which is much more important in the long run.
Where is that explicitly stated? Genuinely curious because 5e has gone out of its way to make clear that anything accomplished by using a reaction happens outside of the normal parameters for combat flow. Reactions are their own entity that don't have an upstream interaction with action/bonus action; they operate independently, except where explicitly noted. The interactions involving them are way too niche.
Can we really say someone with War Caster would be unable to cast a spell as their reaction if they spent their BA on activating a smite spell? No, that would defeat the signature purpose of the feat.
Can we really say a Sorcerer can't counter-Counterspell if they initially cast a Quickened Fireball (burning more resources to do so), but it'd be perfectly fine if it wasn't Quickened? Really?
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
It isn't explicitly stated, there's just a blanket phrasing that includes no exceptions.
It's explicitly stated right here in Chapter 10, like has been quoted a hundred times by now:
You cast a spell with a Bonus Action... can you cast another spell during your turn? No, unless it is specifically "a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
The rule sucks, quit trying to redeem it by saying that it doesn't mean exactly what it says it means.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
War Caster using their reaction for a spell would likely not be an issue very often because the majority of the time, the trigger would occur outside of their turn.
"Not all those who wander are lost"