I know the Action Surge feature of a Fighter allows for a second action. My question is can a fighter, more particular Eldritch Knight, make a melee attack with his sword, then Action Surge and cast Fire Bolt or not?
I know this is a basic question, and I am asking because I have never played one before and it has come up.
Yes, Action Surge gives you a second Action, not a second Attack Action. You could use this second Action to cast a spell, to Dash, to make the Attack Action, etc. etc.
Action Surge is very very good on spellcasters. Just please keep in mind that if you cast a spell using a Bonus Action, the only other types of spells that can be cast are Cantrips that use an Action that round. So Fireball, action surge, Fireball? Totally ok. Misty Step, Fireball? Not ok, even if you Action Surge.
Yes, Action Surge gives you a second Action, not a second Attack Action. You could use this second Action to cast a spell, to Dash, to make the Attack Action, etc. etc.
Action Surge is very very good on spellcasters. Just please keep in mind that if you cast a spell using a Bonus Action, the only other types of spells that can be cast are Cantrips that use an Action that round. So Fireball, action surge, Fireball? Totally ok. Misty Step, Fireball? Not ok, even if you Action Surge.
Adding on just for Clarity: Misty Step, Fire Bolt (cantrip), action surge, Fire Bolt (cantrip) is perfectly acceptable
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Hmmm. I can see why you would say that, but I’m not convinced. Seems overly harsh, and “a” doesn’t ALWAYS mean one-and-only-one. Doesn’t say “a single cantrip with a casting time of one action” after all.
Also worth noting that you can't cheat the system by going Fireball, action surge Fireball, bonus action Misty Step. It doesn't matter what order you take them in, if you intend to cast a bonus action spell you can't cast a leveled spell with an action on the same turn no matter the order of them. CC's post #5 basically said this, but just wanted to clarify.
It never occurred to me that "a cantrip" could mean "any number of cantrips" instead of "one cantrip" and that seems to call into ambiguity several rules that use the same verbiage. Consider the "use an object" action. How many objects can I use with my action? My sword is an object. This potion is an object. In practice we all accept that "an object" means "one object."
I'm just expressing my surprise at this revelation.
Yours is a good point, TexasDevin. One I never considered. An argument could certainly be made that it being only 1 cantrip no matter how many actions you have is the RAW, but it doesn't seem to be the intent.
Comparing it to the [Tooltip Not Found] action isn't particularly relevant, though. You can't cast multiple cantrips using one action, just if you have multiple actions (action surge) you can use each of them to cast a single cantrip. Same for [Tooltip Not Found]; you can only interact with one object with an action, but if you have multiple actions then you can use them all to interact with one object at a time.
I think it is relevant. In my example, the [Tooltip Not Found] action implies a limit on the number of objects that can be used within the space of the action. In the bonus action rule, there is (or at least I assumed there was) an implied limit on the number of cantrips that could be cast in the space of a turn. The thing that makes the two examples relevant to each other is the wording (a cantrip / an object)
Again, I want to be clear that I am not implying the use an object action should be interpreted to allow the use of more than one object. And to your first point, I tend to place even more value on a rule's intent (assuming it can be clearly determined) than the rule's wording. So with that in mind, I agree with you and upon learning that multiple cantrips were intended, I accept this as such, although with considerable surprise.
But your question was "How many objects can I use with my action?" This isn't relevant, because the answer is still "only one."
That is exactly my point. Nothing in the [Tooltip Not Found] says "you may interact with only one object" the rule says "an object." We just accept it to mean only one object. I am comparing the similar wording of "an obejct" in this rule with the wording of "a cantrip" in the bonus action spellcasting rule. I am not comparing the [Tooltip Not Found] action with the [Tooltip Not Found] action.
When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn.
Two objects are more than one object. Three objects are more than one object. The only reason we assume there is a limit on the number of objects the action allows is because of the phrase "when an object requires your action for its use..." and we assume that to mean a single object. This is only relevant to the OP in the most marginal of ways and since we seem to agree anyway, we should consider how much more analysis the "use an object" action is worthy of.
But your question was "How many objects can I use with my action?" This isn't relevant, because the answer is still "only one." You can only cast one spell using the [Tooltip Not Found] action, and you can only interact with one object using the [Tooltip Not Found] action. We're just talking about gaining another action, which would allow you to do either of these things a second time.
You are correct that the Bonus Action rules are muddled; it does say "You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action." which does imply that during the entirety of your turn, you can only cast 1 additional cantrip, even if you have an extra action via Action Surge.
The [Tooltip Not Found] rules, on the other hand, don't imply that you can only interact with one object total during your whole turn; just that you can only interact with one object per action. Nothing here stops you from interacting with a second object, so long as you have a second action to do so.
In fact, Haste is also a way to gain another action (albeit with more constraints than Action Surge; you can't cast a spell with the Haste action) and it specifically says you can use the action granted by it to use the [Tooltip Not Found] action. With your normal action, Action Surge, and Haste, you can use the [Tooltip Not Found] action three times in one turn.
To the point about verbiage, I think it's a strategic mismatch between whoever wrote the section on the basic Action Economy (ie the Bonus Action casting rule) and whoever wrote the Fighter Class Feature, Action Surge (gain a second action this turn). Most likely, either the ability Action Surge hadn't been written yet when the Bonus Action casting rule was written, or the person writing the Bonus Action casting rule didn't know about Action Surge.
In that scenario, why would you need to leave wiggle-room for multiple Actions in a turn, if to the best of your knowledge there's no way to get more than 1 Action in a turn? I'd put forth the consideration that any further meaning derived from comparing the rules text of the 2 discrete sections to be overthinking it.
But your question was "How many objects can I use with my action?" This isn't relevant, because the answer is still "only one."
That is exactly my point. Nothing in the use an object says "you may interact with only one object" the rule says "an object." We just accept it to mean only one object. I am comparing the similar wording of "an obejct" in this rule with the wording of "a cantrip" in the bonus action spellcasting rule. I am not comparing the use an object action with the cast a spell action.
When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action. This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn.
Two objects is more than one object. Three objects is more than one object. The only reason we assume there is a limit on the number of objects the action allows is because of the phrase "when an object requires your action for its use..." and we assume that to mean a single object. This is only relevant to the OP in the most marginal of ways and since we seem to agree anyway, we should consider how much more analysis the "use an object" action is worthy of.
You are correct, we do assume that it is only one object because it says "an object," and that is the correct assumption to make.
I think you're misinterpreting what it means by "This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn." This doesn't have any implication that you get to interact with multiple objects using one [Tooltip Not Found] action. What it means is that if you've already used your Free Object Interaction for the turn, then [Tooltip Not Found] allows you to interact with an additional object during that turn.
For example, if you have two weapons and don't have the Dual Wielder feat, you can draw one weapon with your Free Object Interaction, but in order to draw the second weapon you need to use your action to use the [Tooltip Not Found] action. Or if you have your sword out but want to switch to your bow, you can put the sword away as your free interaction, but have to use your action to draw the bow.
Let's break down the [Tooltip Not Found] action: "You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack." This is your free object interaction for the turn. "When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action." This is for objects that are more complex; maybe a big heavy stone door that you can't just swing open or something like that, it's too much for just your free interaction so you need to use your action. "This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn." This is relating to the first line; if you've used your free interaction to draw your sword, but also want to interact with something else, you now need to use your action.
Edit: I said "free action" a couple times which is terminology from older editions and is wrong in 5e; I've changed these to "free interaction."
I see what you’re saying Texas: if “an object” means one and only one object in Use an Action, why doesn’t “a cantrip” mean one and only one cantrip. All I can say is, context... but you’re right that it’s possible it’s intended your way
It never occurred to me that "a cantrip" could mean "any number of cantrips" instead of "one cantrip" and that seems to call into ambiguity several rules that use the same verbiage. Consider the "use an object" action. How many objects can I use with my action? My sword is an object. This potion is an object. In practice we all accept that "an object" means "one object."
I'm just expressing my surprise at this revelation.
The difference there is that "use an object" is a single action. "A cantrip" only means "any number of cantrips" within the bounds of your action economy.
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I know the Action Surge feature of a Fighter allows for a second action. My question is can a fighter, more particular Eldritch Knight, make a melee attack with his sword, then Action Surge and cast Fire Bolt or not?
I know this is a basic question, and I am asking because I have never played one before and it has come up.
Yes, Action Surge gives you a second Action, not a second Attack Action. You could use this second Action to cast a spell, to Dash, to make the Attack Action, etc. etc.
Action Surge is very very good on spellcasters. Just please keep in mind that if you cast a spell using a Bonus Action, the only other types of spells that can be cast are Cantrips that use an Action that round. So Fireball, action surge, Fireball? Totally ok. Misty Step, Fireball? Not ok, even if you Action Surge.
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Thank you. That clarifies a lot.
Adding on just for Clarity: Misty Step, Fire Bolt (cantrip), action surge, Fire Bolt (cantrip) is perfectly acceptable
But misty step, fire bolt, action surge, fire BALL is not :)
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I believe that is not, in fact, perfectly acceptable.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Why?
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The rule does not say “two cantrips” nor does it say “one or more cantrips” it says “a cantrip.”
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Bonus Action
A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell, provided that you haven't already taken a bonus action this turn. You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
Hmmm. I can see why you would say that, but I’m not convinced. Seems overly harsh, and “a” doesn’t ALWAYS mean one-and-only-one. Doesn’t say “a single cantrip with a casting time of one action” after all.
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I'd think the more specific rule, Action Surge giving you a second Action, would beat the general rule, of casting a spell using a Bonus Action.
For the record, it would appear that Jeremy Crawford also disagrees with my interpretation. I'm surprised that this pokes a hole in an otherwise iron clad spellcasting rule but there you have it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Also worth noting that you can't cheat the system by going Fireball, action surge Fireball, bonus action Misty Step. It doesn't matter what order you take them in, if you intend to cast a bonus action spell you can't cast a leveled spell with an action on the same turn no matter the order of them. CC's post #5 basically said this, but just wanted to clarify.
It never occurred to me that "a cantrip" could mean "any number of cantrips" instead of "one cantrip" and that seems to call into ambiguity several rules that use the same verbiage. Consider the "use an object" action. How many objects can I use with my action? My sword is an object. This potion is an object. In practice we all accept that "an object" means "one object."
I'm just expressing my surprise at this revelation.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yours is a good point, TexasDevin. One I never considered. An argument could certainly be made that it being only 1 cantrip no matter how many actions you have is the RAW, but it doesn't seem to be the intent.
Comparing it to the [Tooltip Not Found] action isn't particularly relevant, though. You can't cast multiple cantrips using one action, just if you have multiple actions (action surge) you can use each of them to cast a single cantrip. Same for [Tooltip Not Found]; you can only interact with one object with an action, but if you have multiple actions then you can use them all to interact with one object at a time.
I think it is relevant. In my example, the [Tooltip Not Found] action implies a limit on the number of objects that can be used within the space of the action. In the bonus action rule, there is (or at least I assumed there was) an implied limit on the number of cantrips that could be cast in the space of a turn. The thing that makes the two examples relevant to each other is the wording (a cantrip / an object)
Again, I want to be clear that I am not implying the use an object action should be interpreted to allow the use of more than one object. And to your first point, I tend to place even more value on a rule's intent (assuming it can be clearly determined) than the rule's wording. So with that in mind, I agree with you and upon learning that multiple cantrips were intended, I accept this as such, although with considerable surprise.
EDIT:
That is exactly my point. Nothing in the [Tooltip Not Found] says "you may interact with only one object" the rule says "an object." We just accept it to mean only one object. I am comparing the similar wording of "an obejct" in this rule with the wording of "a cantrip" in the bonus action spellcasting rule. I am not comparing the [Tooltip Not Found] action with the [Tooltip Not Found] action.
Two objects are more than one object. Three objects are more than one object. The only reason we assume there is a limit on the number of objects the action allows is because of the phrase "when an object requires your action for its use..." and we assume that to mean a single object. This is only relevant to the OP in the most marginal of ways and since we seem to agree anyway, we should consider how much more analysis the "use an object" action is worthy of.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
But your question was "How many objects can I use with my action?" This isn't relevant, because the answer is still "only one." You can only cast one spell using the [Tooltip Not Found] action, and you can only interact with one object using the [Tooltip Not Found] action. We're just talking about gaining another action, which would allow you to do either of these things a second time.
You are correct that the Bonus Action rules are muddled; it does say "You can't cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action." which does imply that during the entirety of your turn, you can only cast 1 additional cantrip, even if you have an extra action via Action Surge.
The [Tooltip Not Found] rules, on the other hand, don't imply that you can only interact with one object total during your whole turn; just that you can only interact with one object per action. Nothing here stops you from interacting with a second object, so long as you have a second action to do so.
In fact, Haste is also a way to gain another action (albeit with more constraints than Action Surge; you can't cast a spell with the Haste action) and it specifically says you can use the action granted by it to use the [Tooltip Not Found] action. With your normal action, Action Surge, and Haste, you can use the [Tooltip Not Found] action three times in one turn.
To the point about verbiage, I think it's a strategic mismatch between whoever wrote the section on the basic Action Economy (ie the Bonus Action casting rule) and whoever wrote the Fighter Class Feature, Action Surge (gain a second action this turn). Most likely, either the ability Action Surge hadn't been written yet when the Bonus Action casting rule was written, or the person writing the Bonus Action casting rule didn't know about Action Surge.
In that scenario, why would you need to leave wiggle-room for multiple Actions in a turn, if to the best of your knowledge there's no way to get more than 1 Action in a turn? I'd put forth the consideration that any further meaning derived from comparing the rules text of the 2 discrete sections to be overthinking it.
You are correct, we do assume that it is only one object because it says "an object," and that is the correct assumption to make.
I think you're misinterpreting what it means by "This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn." This doesn't have any implication that you get to interact with multiple objects using one [Tooltip Not Found] action. What it means is that if you've already used your Free Object Interaction for the turn, then [Tooltip Not Found] allows you to interact with an additional object during that turn.
For example, if you have two weapons and don't have the Dual Wielder feat, you can draw one weapon with your Free Object Interaction, but in order to draw the second weapon you need to use your action to use the [Tooltip Not Found] action. Or if you have your sword out but want to switch to your bow, you can put the sword away as your free interaction, but have to use your action to draw the bow.
Let's break down the [Tooltip Not Found] action:
"You normally interact with an object while doing something else, such as when you draw a sword as part of an attack."
This is your free object interaction for the turn.
"When an object requires your action for its use, you take the Use an Object action."
This is for objects that are more complex; maybe a big heavy stone door that you can't just swing open or something like that, it's too much for just your free interaction so you need to use your action.
"This action is also useful when you want to interact with more than one object on your turn."
This is relating to the first line; if you've used your free interaction to draw your sword, but also want to interact with something else, you now need to use your action.
Edit: I said "free action" a couple times which is terminology from older editions and is wrong in 5e; I've changed these to "free interaction."
I see what you’re saying Texas: if “an object” means one and only one object in Use an Action, why doesn’t “a cantrip” mean one and only one cantrip. All I can say is, context... but you’re right that it’s possible it’s intended your way
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The difference there is that "use an object" is a single action. "A cantrip" only means "any number of cantrips" within the bounds of your action economy.