I've looked all over, and maybe it's up to the DM, but is darkness like inky black mist, or ball shaped shadow?
Inky dark mist: Everyone is blind inside the darkness, and no one can see into it (or through to the other side) from the outside.
Ball shaped shadow: For creatures outside the darkness, nothing within the darkness can be seen, and they can't see through to the opposite side. For creatures inside the darkness, nothing can be seen within the darkness, but things can be seen that are outside. (Sort of like if you were in a dark room, and couldn't see your hand in front of your face, but could look through a window and see the bright outside.) This would have pretty hefty implications for ranged attackers inside darkness shooting out.
I thought it was "inky black mist," but watched a game where it was ruled the other way, and wondered if I had understood it wrong.
I don't have a preference, but would use it differently depending on how it worked. Also, as DM of a player who has darkness (but hasn't used it much yet), I'd like to go with the more common interpretation.
RAW, lighting conditions only affect how visible things within their area are. I.e. things in an area of darkness cannot be seen, but this has no impact on the ability of someone in darkness to see. If there’s a region of bright light, it’s visible to everyone.
Here’s the relevant rules text: “A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.”
The only impact is on creatures trying to look at something in the darkness, not on creatures in the darkness trying to look at something outside of it.
I personally view it as a ball of complete lack of illumination.
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Okay, so far so good. I'm trying to visualize how this works inside the ball. Would the person inside see silhouettes of what's around them inside the darkness sphere (if the area outside was brightly lit)?
Okay, so far so good. I'm trying to visualize how this works inside the ball. Would the person inside see silhouettes of what's around them inside the darkness sphere (if the area outside was brightly lit)?
No, that would allow someone to identify the location of anything inside the darkness. The rules are clear; onlookers are effectively blinded with respect to anything inside the darkness, while remaining perfectly capable of seeing well-lit things outside the darkness.
,Vision rules in D&D very clearly don’t model anything that could resemble physical reality. But they are the rules.
Okay, so you can cast and shoot from inside the darkness, as long as you're targeting things outside it?
technically you can shoot at things /inside/ the darkness too, you just have disadvantage. It's kind of dumb, but, you CAN recon by fire, and score hits.
Also, if you are inside the darkness, you can't see anything at all, inside or outside the darkness unless there's something special at work such as tremor sense or devil's sight.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Okay, so you can cast and shoot from inside the darkness, as long as you're targeting things outside it?
technically you can shoot at things /inside/ the darkness too, you just have disadvantage. It's kind of dumb, but, you CAN recon by fire, and score hits.
Also, if you are inside the darkness, you can't see anything at all, inside or outside the darkness unless there's something special at work such as tremor sense or devil's sight.
Your second statement is incorrect. Nothing about the visibility rules denies sight universally to people inside the darkened area. It only denies sight (to everyone) with respect to the darkened area.
RAW, lighting conditions only affect how visible things within their area are. I.e. things in an area of darkness cannot be seen, but this has no impact on the ability of someone in darkness to see. If there’s a region of bright light, it’s visible to everyone.
Here’s the relevant rules text: “A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.”
The only impact is on creatures trying to look at something in the darkness, not on creatures in the darkness trying to look at something outside of it.
The entire darkness interpretation is up to the DM. This has been argued endlessly with folks with interpretations on both sides. This is particularly true for magical darkness vs regular darkness.
Some folks think that you can see out of a heavily obscured area like darkness since it makes sense that you should be able to see a lighted area beyond the darkness. However the rules don't distinguish between heavily obscured due to darkness vs heavily obscured by a fog cloud or a jungle. If you interpret the rules for darkness such that you can see something on the other side of it then the same ruling applies to heavily obscured due to fog cloud or jungle so that you can see through 60' of heavy jungle to see that creature standing in the clearing since they aren't heavily obscured.
Personally I lean the other way. The text says that darkness, fog or jungle "blocks vision entirely". I read that to mean that these conditions block vision into, out of or through the heavily obscured region since (personally) that is how I would interpret "blocks vision entirely" when written as standard english. As a result, jungle or fog prevents vision into, out of or through the heavily obscured area.
This interpretation should then apply to all forms of darkness too since by the rules darkness also causes a heavily obscured area that "blocks vision entirely". However, I realize that natural darkness doesn't work this way. The inability to see is not due to an obstruction but due to the absence of light. As a result, I use the house rule that natural darkness behaves as we would expect in the real world. You can see areas around light sources from the darkness but the rest is considered heavily obscured. I use the "blocks vision entirely" interpretation for magical darkness though since the rules don't specify.
However, anyone who gives you the idea that there is only one true way to play this RAW would be incorrect since interpretation depends on picking and choosing which of the words are more significant to an individual DM. I read that a heavily obscured area blocks vision entirely and I interpret this as meaning that you can see into, through or out of it while others do not.
Okay, so you can cast and shoot from inside the darkness, as long as you're targeting things outside it?
technically you can shoot at things /inside/ the darkness too, you just have disadvantage. It's kind of dumb, but, you CAN recon by fire, and score hits.
Also, if you are inside the darkness, you can't see anything at all, inside or outside the darkness unless there's something special at work such as tremor sense or devil's sight.
Your second statement is incorrect. Nothing about the visibility rules denies sight universally to people inside the darkened area. It only denies sight (to everyone) with respect to the darkened area.
I disagree. the spell itself says:
A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.
If the area inside the darkness cannot be illuminated, you cannot see anything inside it. Those inside the darkness are effectively blinded.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
RAW, lighting conditions only affect how visible things within their area are. I.e. things in an area of darkness cannot be seen, but this has no impact on the ability of someone in darkness to see. If there’s a region of bright light, it’s visible to everyone.
Here’s the relevant rules text: “A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.”
The only impact is on creatures trying to look at something in the darkness, not on creatures in the darkness trying to look at something outside of it.
The entire darkness interpretation is up to the DM. This has been argued endlessly with folks with interpretations on both sides. This is particularly true for magical darkness vs regular darkness.
Has it really been argued endlessly? Huh.
Some folks think that you can see out of a heavily obscured area like darkness since it makes sense that you should be able to see a lighted area beyond the darkness. However the rules don't distinguish between heavily obscured due to darkness vs heavily obscured by a fog cloud or a jungle. If you interpret the rules for darkness such that you can see something on the other side of it then the same ruling applies to heavily obscured due to fog cloud or jungle so that you can see through 60' of heavy jungle to see that creature standing in the clearing since they aren't heavily obscured.
I'm not saying you can see out of a heavily obscured area like darkness because it makes sense, I'm saying you can do it because the rules don't say you can't. I agree that this causes the problem of obscurement from a physical obstruction not behaving realistically; as you say, the game doesn't make any distinction between "lack of light" and "physically obstructed." But the rules are the rules (I'm not advocating for following them when they don't make sense, but established what they are is important in this forum).
Personally I lean the other way. The text says that darkness, fog or jungle "blocks vision entirely". I read that to mean that these conditions block vision into, out of or through the heavily obscured region since (personally) that is how I would interpret "blocks vision entirely" when written as standard english. As a result, jungle or fog prevents vision into, out of or through the heavily obscured area.
The rules state exactly how "blocks vision entirely" is meant to be interpreted. "A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area." Note that this does not say "when inside that area." If one takes the "blocks vision entirely" statement to stand independent of the following statement, the following statement doesn't actually serve any purpose. It makes much more sense to take it as a clarification of the preceding statement. But I can absolutely grant that a DM may choose to take the two sentences as disjoint. I whole-heartedly disagree, but I can understand that there's some ambiguity.
Okay, so you can cast and shoot from inside the darkness, as long as you're targeting things outside it?
technically you can shoot at things /inside/ the darkness too, you just have disadvantage. It's kind of dumb, but, you CAN recon by fire, and score hits.
Also, if you are inside the darkness, you can't see anything at all, inside or outside the darkness unless there's something special at work such as tremor sense or devil's sight.
Your second statement is incorrect. Nothing about the visibility rules denies sight universally to people inside the darkened area. It only denies sight (to everyone) with respect to the darkened area.
I disagree. the spell itself says:
A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.
If the area inside the darkness cannot be illuminated, you cannot see anything inside it. Those inside the darkness are effectively blinded.
Nothing inside the darkness needs to be illuminated. If things outside the darkness are illuminated, they're visible. Magical darkness doesn't affect things outside its area. D&D visibility rules don't follow real-world physics. They don't model a realistic situation. It's very reasonable to make house-rules if this unrealistic behavior bothers you. I'm not saying we should be playing by the rules 100% of the time. I'm just saying what the rules say.
Okay, so you can cast and shoot from inside the darkness, as long as you're targeting things outside it?
technically you can shoot at things /inside/ the darkness too, you just have disadvantage. It's kind of dumb, but, you CAN recon by fire, and score hits.
Also, if you are inside the darkness, you can't see anything at all, inside or outside the darkness unless there's something special at work such as tremor sense or devil's sight.
Your second statement is incorrect. Nothing about the visibility rules denies sight universally to people inside the darkened area. It only denies sight (to everyone) with respect to the darkened area.
I disagree. the spell itself says:
A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.
If the area inside the darkness cannot be illuminated, you cannot see anything inside it. Those inside the darkness are effectively blinded.
Nothing inside the darkness needs to be illuminated. If things outside the darkness are illuminated, they're visible. Magical darkness doesn't affect things outside its area. D&D visibility rules don't follow real-world physics. They don't model a realistic situation. It's very reasonable to make house-rules if this unrealistic behavior bothers you. I'm not saying we should be playing by the rules 100% of the time. I'm just saying what the rules say.
I disagree as well. It specifically states that ‘Those in Darkness are effectively Blinded’. Lighting a lantern outside of the ball of Darkness doesn’t allow you to see what’s outside when you’re inside of it. That’s not quite how the Blinded Condition works, I believe.
Personally I lean the other way. The text says that darkness, fog or jungle "blocks vision entirely". I read that to mean that these conditions block vision into, out of or through the heavily obscured region since (personally) that is how I would interpret "blocks vision entirely" when written as standard english. As a result, jungle or fog prevents vision into, out of or through the heavily obscured area.
This interpretation should then apply to all forms of darkness too since by the rules darkness also causes a heavily obscured area that "blocks vision entirely". However, I realize that natural darkness doesn't work this way. The inability to see is not due to an obstruction but due to the absence of light. As a result, I use the house rule that natural darkness behaves as we would expect in the real world. You can see areas around light sources from the darkness but the rest is considered heavily obscured. I use the "blocks vision entirely" interpretation for magical darkness though since the rules don't specify.
However, anyone who gives you the idea that there is only one true way to play this RAW would be incorrect since interpretation depends on picking and choosing which of the words are more significant to an individual DM. I read that a heavily obscured area blocks vision entirely and I interpret this as meaning that you can see into, through or out of it while others do not.
Okay, this is how I've been ruling magical darkness as a DM (as an inky black "mist" sphere, with "blindness" inside), and regular darkness (like the real world). If it's an interpretation that arguably works, maybe I'll just leave it like that.
However, if I plan to play a character that uses the darkness spell at another DM's table, I'll be sure to check how they use magical darkness first, and then just work within those parameters.
Okay, so you can cast and shoot from inside the darkness, as long as you're targeting things outside it?
technically you can shoot at things /inside/ the darkness too, you just have disadvantage. It's kind of dumb, but, you CAN recon by fire, and score hits.
Also, if you are inside the darkness, you can't see anything at all, inside or outside the darkness unless there's something special at work such as tremor sense or devil's sight.
Your second statement is incorrect. Nothing about the visibility rules denies sight universally to people inside the darkened area. It only denies sight (to everyone) with respect to the darkened area.
I disagree. the spell itself says:
A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.
If the area inside the darkness cannot be illuminated, you cannot see anything inside it. Those inside the darkness are effectively blinded.
Nothing inside the darkness needs to be illuminated. If things outside the darkness are illuminated, they're visible. Magical darkness doesn't affect things outside its area. D&D visibility rules don't follow real-world physics. They don't model a realistic situation. It's very reasonable to make house-rules if this unrealistic behavior bothers you. I'm not saying we should be playing by the rules 100% of the time. I'm just saying what the rules say.
no, the text of the spell is clear:
Magical darkness spreads from a point you choose within range to fill a 15-foot-radius sphere for the duration. The darkness spreads around corners. A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.
If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it. Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a helm, blocks the darkness.
If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled.
You are filling every square with darkness. Therefore, every square inside the darkness...is blocked from any illumination. A creature inside the darkness cannot see anything within the darkness. Light from outside the darkness...does not reach you, nor do the images carried by that light.
You're viewing this as a 1 way barrier, and I don't believe that is correct. It's a two way barrier. No light in or out. If your interpretation is correct, then Devil's sight would not be necessary to gain advantage while blasting from a darkness globe, nor would the shadow sorcerer's class feature of spending two sorcery points to see through your own darkness be meaningful.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I'm with Crzyhawk on this one. This is the difference between magical and nonmagical darkness. Natural, nonmagical darkness is just an area that has no illumination, while magical darkness completely blocks all light from entering the area. You need light to see - D&D rules do establish that you do. So if light from something cannot reach your eyes, you cannot see it. The spell blocks light, so if you're in the area, you're completely blind.
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"A torch is an item that produces nonmagical light. Nonmagical light can't penetrate the area of the darkness spell. #DnD"
-Jeremy Crawford
~Emphasis added~
I'm going to avoid going into the complications of translating real world optics into game physics.
According to this statement by JC, the area affected by the Darkness spell would appear as a black void; a sphere of nothing. No light would pass through, so it may as well be a wall painted with "Vanta Black".
Darkness spell is a ball of delete light. Within this ball light cannot exist, whether it be from a source outside of or within the ball. Darkvision doesn't work because there isn't any light to boost. Only Warlock's Devil's Sight can see through it, since it's not really darkvision but seeing reality despite darkness. I like to imagine it looking like a black mist just for visual flair, looking like Omen's Dark Cover from Valorant.
I've looked all over, and maybe it's up to the DM, but is darkness like inky black mist, or ball shaped shadow?
Inky dark mist: Everyone is blind inside the darkness, and no one can see into it (or through to the other side) from the outside.
Ball shaped shadow: For creatures outside the darkness, nothing within the darkness can be seen, and they can't see through to the opposite side. For creatures inside the darkness, nothing can be seen within the darkness, but things can be seen that are outside. (Sort of like if you were in a dark room, and couldn't see your hand in front of your face, but could look through a window and see the bright outside.) This would have pretty hefty implications for ranged attackers inside darkness shooting out.
I thought it was "inky black mist," but watched a game where it was ruled the other way, and wondered if I had understood it wrong.
I don't have a preference, but would use it differently depending on how it worked. Also, as DM of a player who has darkness (but hasn't used it much yet), I'd like to go with the more common interpretation.
RAW, lighting conditions only affect how visible things within their area are. I.e. things in an area of darkness cannot be seen, but this has no impact on the ability of someone in darkness to see. If there’s a region of bright light, it’s visible to everyone.
Here’s the relevant rules text: “A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely. A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area.”
The only impact is on creatures trying to look at something in the darkness, not on creatures in the darkness trying to look at something outside of it.
I personally view it as a ball of complete lack of illumination.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Okay, so far so good. I'm trying to visualize how this works inside the ball. Would the person inside see silhouettes of what's around them inside the darkness sphere (if the area outside was brightly lit)?
No, that would allow someone to identify the location of anything inside the darkness. The rules are clear; onlookers are effectively blinded with respect to anything inside the darkness, while remaining perfectly capable of seeing well-lit things outside the darkness.
,Vision rules in D&D very clearly don’t model anything that could resemble physical reality. But they are the rules.
Okay, so you can cast and shoot from inside the darkness, as long as you're targeting things outside it?
Yep!
technically you can shoot at things /inside/ the darkness too, you just have disadvantage. It's kind of dumb, but, you CAN recon by fire, and score hits.
Also, if you are inside the darkness, you can't see anything at all, inside or outside the darkness unless there's something special at work such as tremor sense or devil's sight.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Your second statement is incorrect. Nothing about the visibility rules denies sight universally to people inside the darkened area. It only denies sight (to everyone) with respect to the darkened area.
The entire darkness interpretation is up to the DM. This has been argued endlessly with folks with interpretations on both sides. This is particularly true for magical darkness vs regular darkness.
Some folks think that you can see out of a heavily obscured area like darkness since it makes sense that you should be able to see a lighted area beyond the darkness. However the rules don't distinguish between heavily obscured due to darkness vs heavily obscured by a fog cloud or a jungle. If you interpret the rules for darkness such that you can see something on the other side of it then the same ruling applies to heavily obscured due to fog cloud or jungle so that you can see through 60' of heavy jungle to see that creature standing in the clearing since they aren't heavily obscured.
Personally I lean the other way. The text says that darkness, fog or jungle "blocks vision entirely". I read that to mean that these conditions block vision into, out of or through the heavily obscured region since (personally) that is how I would interpret "blocks vision entirely" when written as standard english. As a result, jungle or fog prevents vision into, out of or through the heavily obscured area.
This interpretation should then apply to all forms of darkness too since by the rules darkness also causes a heavily obscured area that "blocks vision entirely". However, I realize that natural darkness doesn't work this way. The inability to see is not due to an obstruction but due to the absence of light. As a result, I use the house rule that natural darkness behaves as we would expect in the real world. You can see areas around light sources from the darkness but the rest is considered heavily obscured. I use the "blocks vision entirely" interpretation for magical darkness though since the rules don't specify.
However, anyone who gives you the idea that there is only one true way to play this RAW would be incorrect since interpretation depends on picking and choosing which of the words are more significant to an individual DM. I read that a heavily obscured area blocks vision entirely and I interpret this as meaning that you can see into, through or out of it while others do not.
I disagree. the spell itself says:
A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.
If the area inside the darkness cannot be illuminated, you cannot see anything inside it. Those inside the darkness are effectively blinded.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Has it really been argued endlessly? Huh.
I'm not saying you can see out of a heavily obscured area like darkness because it makes sense, I'm saying you can do it because the rules don't say you can't. I agree that this causes the problem of obscurement from a physical obstruction not behaving realistically; as you say, the game doesn't make any distinction between "lack of light" and "physically obstructed." But the rules are the rules (I'm not advocating for following them when they don't make sense, but established what they are is important in this forum).
The rules state exactly how "blocks vision entirely" is meant to be interpreted. "A creature effectively suffers from the blinded condition when trying to see something in that area." Note that this does not say "when inside that area." If one takes the "blocks vision entirely" statement to stand independent of the following statement, the following statement doesn't actually serve any purpose. It makes much more sense to take it as a clarification of the preceding statement. But I can absolutely grant that a DM may choose to take the two sentences as disjoint. I whole-heartedly disagree, but I can understand that there's some ambiguity.
Nothing inside the darkness needs to be illuminated. If things outside the darkness are illuminated, they're visible. Magical darkness doesn't affect things outside its area. D&D visibility rules don't follow real-world physics. They don't model a realistic situation. It's very reasonable to make house-rules if this unrealistic behavior bothers you. I'm not saying we should be playing by the rules 100% of the time. I'm just saying what the rules say.
I disagree as well. It specifically states that ‘Those in Darkness are effectively Blinded’. Lighting a lantern outside of the ball of Darkness doesn’t allow you to see what’s outside when you’re inside of it. That’s not quite how the Blinded Condition works, I believe.
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You’re ignoring the key text: “when trying to see something in that area."
Okay, this is how I've been ruling magical darkness as a DM (as an inky black "mist" sphere, with "blindness" inside), and regular darkness (like the real world). If it's an interpretation that arguably works, maybe I'll just leave it like that.
However, if I plan to play a character that uses the darkness spell at another DM's table, I'll be sure to check how they use magical darkness first, and then just work within those parameters.
Thanks everyone, this was really helpful!
no, the text of the spell is clear:
Magical darkness spreads from a point you choose within range to fill a 15-foot-radius sphere for the duration. The darkness spreads around corners. A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness, and nonmagical light can't illuminate it.
If the point you choose is on an object you are holding or one that isn't being worn or carried, the darkness emanates from the object and moves with it. Completely covering the source of the darkness with an opaque object, such as a bowl or a helm, blocks the darkness.
If any of this spell's area overlaps with an area of light created by a spell of 2nd level or lower, the spell that created the light is dispelled.
You are filling every square with darkness. Therefore, every square inside the darkness...is blocked from any illumination. A creature inside the darkness cannot see anything within the darkness. Light from outside the darkness...does not reach you, nor do the images carried by that light.
You're viewing this as a 1 way barrier, and I don't believe that is correct. It's a two way barrier. No light in or out. If your interpretation is correct, then Devil's sight would not be necessary to gain advantage while blasting from a darkness globe, nor would the shadow sorcerer's class feature of spending two sorcery points to see through your own darkness be meaningful.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
I'm with Crzyhawk on this one. This is the difference between magical and nonmagical darkness. Natural, nonmagical darkness is just an area that has no illumination, while magical darkness completely blocks all light from entering the area. You need light to see - D&D rules do establish that you do. So if light from something cannot reach your eyes, you cannot see it. The spell blocks light, so if you're in the area, you're completely blind.
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Sage Advice
I'm going to avoid going into the complications of translating real world optics into game physics.
According to this statement by JC, the area affected by the Darkness spell would appear as a black void; a sphere of nothing. No light would pass through, so it may as well be a wall painted with "Vanta Black".
Darkness spell is a ball of delete light. Within this ball light cannot exist, whether it be from a source outside of or within the ball. Darkvision doesn't work because there isn't any light to boost. Only Warlock's Devil's Sight can see through it, since it's not really darkvision but seeing reality despite darkness. I like to imagine it looking like a black mist just for visual flair, looking like Omen's Dark Cover from Valorant.