I personally do not believe that the designers of D&D meant for a 2nd level spell to overcome a 5th level spell, when it clearly states that a 3rd level spell does not. Just my opinion.
The designers' intention was posted in this thread three years ago, in post #5. Teleportation doesn't care if there's stuff in your way.
Note that Forcecage has specific language preventing teleportation that Wall of Force does not have. If it were simply impossible to teleport past a transparent barrier, that language would be unnecessary.
One thing a lot of people are saying is it creates total cover, yet nowhere in the spell description does it say it blocks sight or anything else but PHYSICAL objects from passing through it. I saw a lot saying you cant cast any spells through it because of that reason, yet look at this example.
If it only blocks physical attacks, then casting a Fireball spell, which is cast at a point in space, CAN be cast behind the wall of force, because you can see through the wall. But a spell like lightning bolt CANNOT be cast through it because it creates a physical bolt of electricity that originates with the caster, and the wall would stop it. If someone cast Command on the caster casting the WoF spell, he would have to make a Save vs being charmed by the Command Spell. You command him to Sleep, or even back away from the wall 10ft and tell him to Approach. In approach, he walks to within 5ft of you, and if he hits the Wall from his side, then the DM could rule that in order to get to the 5ft, he would drop the spell.
Granted using a level 2 spell on a level 9 caster would be very hard for him to fail but who knows, it is a WIS Save and some wizards might have dumped WIS for another stat.
One thing a lot of people are saying is it creates total cover, yet nowhere in the spell description does it say it blocks sight or anything else but PHYSICAL objects from passing through it. I saw a lot saying you cant cast any spells through it because of that reason, yet look at this example.
If it only blocks physical attacks, then casting a Fireball spell, which is cast at a point in space, CAN be cast behind the wall of force, because you can see through the wall. But a spell like lightning bolt CANNOT be cast through it because it creates a physical bolt of electricity that originates with the caster, and the wall would stop it. If someone cast Command on the caster casting the WoF spell, he would have to make a Save vs being charmed by the Command Spell. You command him to Sleep, or even back away from the wall 10ft and tell him to Approach. In approach, he walks to within 5ft of you, and if he hits the Wall from his side, then the DM could rule that in order to get to the 5ft, he would drop the spell.
Granted using a level 2 spell on a level 9 caster would be very hard for him to fail but who knows, it is a WIS Save and some wizards might have dumped WIS for another stat.
This is why people talk about the fact that Wall of Force provides total cover. Total cover will block spells like Command even though it doesn't have a physical projectile, because it means there isn't a clear path to the target.
However if you look at spells like Misty Step or Teleport their targets are the creatures being teleported, not the destination. So the caster needs a clear path to the creatures they are teleporting, but they do not need a clear path to the place they are teleporting to.
You cannot teleport through it. Teleportation does not leave the material plane. See Crawford tweet below.
The wall of force spell in D&D says nothing can pass through it, whether on the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane. That means nothing can pass through it on the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane, even if that thing has incorporeal movement. - Jeremy Crawford
You cannot teleport through it. Teleportation does not leave the material plane. See Crawford tweet below.
The wall of force spell in D&D says nothing can pass through it, whether on the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane. That means nothing can pass through it on the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane, even if that thing has incorporeal movement. - Jeremy Crawford
Except the point of teleportation is that it’s not linear travel; you aren’t using Etherealness to pass through an obstructed space. One moment you’re in one space, the next you’re in the other without expending any movement speed or otherwise traversing the intervening space.
You cannot teleport through it. Teleportation does not leave the material plane. See Crawford tweet below.
The wall of force spell in D&D says nothing can pass through it, whether on the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane. That means nothing can pass through it on the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane, even if that thing has incorporeal movement. - Jeremy Crawford
Without the question JC was responding to we lack the context in which he originally gave his answer. However nowhere in the tweet does he mention teleportation at all, he is simply re-iterating what is already described in the last paragraph of the Wall of Force spell itself. *Edit*Link to the original tweet: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1251656811955892225*/Edit*
As The_Ace_of_rogues points out the very nature of teleportation is that it is changing your position from one point to another without traversing any of the points in between. This is why I asked you how you believed the Wall of Force was blocking teleportation. If it is because you think it prevents objects from passing through it as JC describes then I would point out that this is no different to how a normal wall of wood or stone works.
I assume no, but could you cast something like Summon Greater Demon inside a Wall of Force? You're just targeting an unoccupied space. I assume no, but Pact Tactics said a friend of his used it in a game they played which I thought was odd so wanted to check.
RAW this doesn’t work, since a WoF is total cover, preventing a spell from reaching through it to a target destination. But I imagine lots of people don’t remember that transparent barriers are still cover or just houserule around it.
I assume no, but could you cast something like Summon Greater Demon inside a Wall of Force? You're just targeting an unoccupied space. I assume no, but Pact Tactics said a friend of his used it in a game they played which I thought was odd so wanted to check.
The demon appears in an unoccupied space you can see within range.
The space inside the Wall of Force is unoccupied, and you can see it. So RAW, it works. If it works for Misty Step, there's no reason why it wouldn't work for this spell too.
I assume no, but could you cast something like Summon Greater Demon inside a Wall of Force? You're just targeting an unoccupied space. I assume no, but Pact Tactics said a friend of his used it in a game they played which I thought was odd so wanted to check.
The demon appears in an unoccupied space you can see within range.
The space inside the Wall of Force is unoccupied, and you can see it. So RAW, it works. If it works for Misty Step, there's no reason why it wouldn't work for this spell too.
This gets into the issue of targets and line of effect for magic spells. Misty step has a target of self and only requires a point you can see. The magic of the spell acts on the caster so you can teleport anywhere you can see within 30'. On the other hand, Summon Greater Demon says "The demon appears in an unoccupied space you can see within range" .. the range is 60' .. this makes the target of the spell the location where the demon appears.
However, the spellcasting rules have the following:
"A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can’t see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction."
If a Wall of Force is total cover ... it blocks line of effect to the target so you can't summon the demon on the other side of the wall.
So, it comes down to whether the DM in their game rules that Wall of Force is total cover as far as line of effect for spells is concerned.
Also from the 2024 rules we have the following:
"A spell’s range indicates how far from the spellcaster the spell’s effect can originate, and the spell’s description specifies which part of the effect is limited by the range."
"Targets
A typical spell requires the caster to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description says whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or something else.
A Clear Path to the Target. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover."
2024 Total Cover :: Can’t be targeted directly -> An object that covers the whole target
So - in the 2024 rules - since a wall of force covers the whole target, it could be considered total cover and thus would block line of effect for spells that require targeting something seen on the other side of the wall.
However, most teleportation spells are not in that category. The spells move the targets from point A to point B without crossing the intervening space - which is the point of teleportation. So Misty Step works through a wall of force for a couple of reasons and Summon Greater Demon would not (at least if the DM chooses to rule that way).
One thing a lot of people are saying is it creates total cover, yet nowhere in the spell description does it say it blocks sight or anything else but PHYSICAL objects from passing through it. I saw a lot saying you cant cast any spells through it because of that reason, yet look at this example.
If it only blocks physical attacks, then casting a Fireball spell, which is cast at a point in space, CAN be cast behind the wall of force, because you can see through the wall. But a spell like lightning bolt CANNOT be cast through it because it creates a physical bolt of electricity that originates with the caster, and the wall would stop it. If someone cast Command on the caster casting the WoF spell, he would have to make a Save vs being charmed by the Command Spell. You command him to Sleep, or even back away from the wall 10ft and tell him to Approach. In approach, he walks to within 5ft of you, and if he hits the Wall from his side, then the DM could rule that in order to get to the 5ft, he would drop the spell.
Granted using a level 2 spell on a level 9 caster would be very hard for him to fail but who knows, it is a WIS Save and some wizards might have dumped WIS for another stat.
Under RAI, this may not hold true.
Wall of Force creates Total Cover, and the presence of Line-of-Sight does not inherently grant Line-of-Effect.
Line of Sight
To determine whether there is line of sight between two spaces, pick a corner of one space and trace an imaginary line from that corner to any part of another space. If at least one such line doesn't pass through or touch an object or effect that blocks vision-such as a stone wall, a thick curtain, or a dense cloud of fog-then there is line of sight.
This degree of precision is rarely necessary. You can determine line of sight as you do when playing without miniatures: make a call, and keep the game moving.
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can't be behind total cover. If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction.
I assume no, but could you cast something like Summon Greater Demon inside a Wall of Force? You're just targeting an unoccupied space. I assume no, but Pact Tactics said a friend of his used it in a game they played which I thought was odd so wanted to check.
The demon appears in an unoccupied space you can see within range.
The space inside the Wall of Force is unoccupied, and you can see it. So RAW, it works. If it works for Misty Step, there's no reason why it wouldn't work for this spell too.
Why is cover being debated and Sage Advice tweets being referenced without this one in the mix? It's literally the only one that matters here.
With misty step, you must be able to see your destination, but you don't need a clear path there.
Misty Step has a range of "Self", as opposed to Summon Greater Demon's 60 ft range. Ergo, target rules do not apply to the former as opposed to the latter, making a comparison between the two moot.
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It blocks line of effect, which negates most spells ability to target.
The designers' intention was posted in this thread three years ago, in post #5. Teleportation doesn't care if there's stuff in your way.
Since teleportation does not cause a creature to leave the material plane, you cannot teleport through Wall of Force.
How exactly does a Wall of Force block teleportation?
Note that Forcecage has specific language preventing teleportation that Wall of Force does not have. If it were simply impossible to teleport past a transparent barrier, that language would be unnecessary.
I agree. So many spells say, "that you can see", and transparent doesn't change that obviously.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
One thing a lot of people are saying is it creates total cover, yet nowhere in the spell description does it say it blocks sight or anything else but PHYSICAL objects from passing through it. I saw a lot saying you cant cast any spells through it because of that reason, yet look at this example.
If it only blocks physical attacks, then casting a Fireball spell, which is cast at a point in space, CAN be cast behind the wall of force, because you can see through the wall. But a spell like lightning bolt CANNOT be cast through it because it creates a physical bolt of electricity that originates with the caster, and the wall would stop it. If someone cast Command on the caster casting the WoF spell, he would have to make a Save vs being charmed by the Command Spell. You command him to Sleep, or even back away from the wall 10ft and tell him to Approach. In approach, he walks to within 5ft of you, and if he hits the Wall from his side, then the DM could rule that in order to get to the 5ft, he would drop the spell.
Granted using a level 2 spell on a level 9 caster would be very hard for him to fail but who knows, it is a WIS Save and some wizards might have dumped WIS for another stat.
One of the base rules of spell casting is needing A Clear Path to the Target - https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/phb/spellcasting#AClearPathtotheTarget
This is why people talk about the fact that Wall of Force provides total cover. Total cover will block spells like Command even though it doesn't have a physical projectile, because it means there isn't a clear path to the target.
However if you look at spells like Misty Step or Teleport their targets are the creatures being teleported, not the destination. So the caster needs a clear path to the creatures they are teleporting, but they do not need a clear path to the place they are teleporting to.
You cannot teleport through it. Teleportation does not leave the material plane. See Crawford tweet below.
The wall of force spell in D&D says nothing can pass through it, whether on the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane. That means nothing can pass through it on the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane, even if that thing has incorporeal movement. - Jeremy Crawford
Except the point of teleportation is that it’s not linear travel; you aren’t using Etherealness to pass through an obstructed space. One moment you’re in one space, the next you’re in the other without expending any movement speed or otherwise traversing the intervening space.
Without the question JC was responding to we lack the context in which he originally gave his answer. However nowhere in the tweet does he mention teleportation at all, he is simply re-iterating what is already described in the last paragraph of the Wall of Force spell itself.
*Edit*Link to the original tweet: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1251656811955892225*/Edit*
As The_Ace_of_rogues points out the very nature of teleportation is that it is changing your position from one point to another without traversing any of the points in between. This is why I asked you how you believed the Wall of Force was blocking teleportation. If it is because you think it prevents objects from passing through it as JC describes then I would point out that this is no different to how a normal wall of wood or stone works.
I assume no, but could you cast something like Summon Greater Demon inside a Wall of Force? You're just targeting an unoccupied space. I assume no, but Pact Tactics said a friend of his used it in a game they played which I thought was odd so wanted to check.
RAW this doesn’t work, since a WoF is total cover, preventing a spell from reaching through it to a target destination. But I imagine lots of people don’t remember that transparent barriers are still cover or just houserule around it.
I agree with The_Ace_of_Rogues
EDIT: I think the next Dev conversation hadn't been posted in the thread yet:
Why is cover being debated and Sage Advice tweets being referenced without this one in the mix? It's literally the only one that matters here.
Summon Greater Demon says:
The space inside the Wall of Force is unoccupied, and you can see it. So RAW, it works. If it works for Misty Step, there's no reason why it wouldn't work for this spell too.
This gets into the issue of targets and line of effect for magic spells. Misty step has a target of self and only requires a point you can see. The magic of the spell acts on the caster so you can teleport anywhere you can see within 30'. On the other hand, Summon Greater Demon says "The demon appears in an unoccupied space you can see within range" .. the range is 60' .. this makes the target of the spell the location where the demon appears.
However, the spellcasting rules have the following:
"A Clear Path to the Target
To target something, you must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind total cover.
If you place an area of effect at a point that you can’t see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction."
If a Wall of Force is total cover ... it blocks line of effect to the target so you can't summon the demon on the other side of the wall.
So, it comes down to whether the DM in their game rules that Wall of Force is total cover as far as line of effect for spells is concerned.
Also from the 2024 rules we have the following:
"A spell’s range indicates how far from the spellcaster the spell’s effect can originate, and the spell’s description specifies which part of the effect is limited by the range."
"Targets
A typical spell requires the caster to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell’s magic. A spell’s description says whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or something else.
A Clear Path to the Target. To target something with a spell, a caster must have a clear path to it, so it can’t be behind Total Cover."
2024 Total Cover :: Can’t be targeted directly -> An object that covers the whole target
So - in the 2024 rules - since a wall of force covers the whole target, it could be considered total cover and thus would block line of effect for spells that require targeting something seen on the other side of the wall.
However, most teleportation spells are not in that category. The spells move the targets from point A to point B without crossing the intervening space - which is the point of teleportation. So Misty Step works through a wall of force for a couple of reasons and Summon Greater Demon would not (at least if the DM chooses to rule that way).
Under RAI, this may not hold true.
Wall of Force creates Total Cover, and the presence of Line-of-Sight does not inherently grant Line-of-Effect.
Jeremy Crawford has clarified similar scenarios in a separate commentary:
For the reasons given by David or Argenix, spells like Hold Person, Hold Monster, Moonbeam, Insect Plague, Flame Strike... won't work because you can't target someone or something behind Total Cover.
Misty Step has a range of "Self", as opposed to Summon Greater Demon's 60 ft range. Ergo, target rules do not apply to the former as opposed to the latter, making a comparison between the two moot.