So I am sure this will be another one that will really be up to the DM but wanted some second opinions on it. A druid character had mold earth as its cantrip and will create a hole in the ground. if a character/monster were to fall in and he would use mold earth again to bury said character/monster should it be allowed to strength check out. the argument can swing both ways obviously it is only loose dirt but if you have ever been in a ditch that has caved in on you and buried you just up to your waist (by the way don't try this at home, the cave in can actually do serious damage to your internal organs causing death) you will find you need help getting out/or spend time digging around you to get out. so if the character/monster is entirely buried or up to neck buried its hard to say they can get out.
I understand this is a game and big bosses sure should be able to get out, but lesser monsters...Like I said I'm sure this is at discretion of DM but second opinions are always nice as I haven't been playing this game very long, let alone DMing.
By RAW, spells only do what they say they do. It can not cause damage, and it can not inflict conditions upon a target.
The description states,
"If you target an area of loose earth, you can instantaneously excavate it, move it along the ground, and deposit it up to 5 feet away. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage."
so, even if a target was in a pit, you would essentially be building the ground up beneath them, rather than dumping dirt on top of them.
That said, if the DM wants to allow cantrips to be used more broadly, then I recommend finding a low level spell to emulate under appropriate conditions.
Burying a creature in several cubic feet of loose earth is probably worthy of some checks/saves against Restrained, assuming they're already in a suitably shaped pit. Spells don't generally inflict conditions like Restrained without saves (Dexterity or Strength would be appropriate) to avoid them, but if you've got the added limitation of them being placed in a suitable 5+-foot deep hole before casting, in suitable terrain, then I don't think there'd be much potential for general abuse if you didn't allow an initial save.... the players should be rewarded for designing a trap and executing it.
Maybe a spell save DC Strength save or Athletics check to free yourself as an action on subsequent rounds? You're firmly in houserule territory, but not really because you're doing something the spell doesn't intend, but more because you're doing something that the spell doesn't define.
It is agreed that the spell would not cause damage. what we are talking about it moving dirt to create the pit. if they fall into the pit then merely put the dirt back into the hole. it wouldn't cause damage, but they are now buried in dirt. not at all something that is easy to get out of, not to mention if head under cant really breathe.
It's a cantrip, so I wouldn't go killing anyone in it... but there's a lot of preconditions to set this up, so I think it's balanced-ish
Suitable terrain ("loose earth")
Round 1 to excavate a 5-foot-deep pit, skipping a round of attacking
Round 2 or a team mate to force enemy (tiny, small, or medium only) into said pit (using a Grapple or a Shove, both of which carry risk of failure). Or, work ahead of time to disguise the pit as a trap, enemy's failure to spot the pit, enemy's choice to walk into that specific area, enemy's failure of a save to avoid falling into pit...
Ability to keep the enemy in the pit during their turn (tough to do even with Sentinel, since it won't stop them from crawling out towards you)
Round 3 to fill in the pit, skipping a round of attacking
That's a lot of resource and time investment into inflicting Restrained, or even Incapacitated, so yeah... if the party can make all those stars align, I'd allow it, because it's not going to be relevant in very many fights at all, so it should feel fun and rewarding when it is.
Basically, the cantrip becomes a magical boost for a mundane trap, so I would calculate it like the players making a comparable trap without the cantrip and then increase the Save DC by +2 for using Mold Earth to ensure it works as well as possible.
Old thread, but some mechanics for buried creatures can be found in a published adventure involving a monarchy and rainy weather.
While buried, the creature is prone and blinded. It also can’t breathe and has total cover against attacks and other effects that might target it.
... A buried creature that doesn’t have a burrowing speed can, at the start of its turn, make a DC 15 Strength (Athletics) check. If the check succeeds, the creature can pull itself in one direction or the other at a rate of 1 foot for every 5 feet of movement spent. If that movement isn’t enough to exit the collapsed area, the creature can repeat the check on its next turn. A creature standing at either end of the collapsed area can use its action to pull a buried creature out of the area, provided the buried creature is within reach (no ability check required).
No damage, but if you can get a medium or smaller creature to get into the hole, then stay in the hole long enough to bury it, might be a good way to adjudicate it. I'll be adding "buried" to my games.
So I am sure this will be another one that will really be up to the DM but wanted some second opinions on it. A druid character had mold earth as its cantrip and will create a hole in the ground. if a character/monster were to fall in and he would use mold earth again to bury said character/monster should it be allowed to strength check out. the argument can swing both ways obviously it is only loose dirt but if you have ever been in a ditch that has caved in on you and buried you just up to your waist (by the way don't try this at home, the cave in can actually do serious damage to your internal organs causing death) you will find you need help getting out/or spend time digging around you to get out. so if the character/monster is entirely buried or up to neck buried its hard to say they can get out.
I understand this is a game and big bosses sure should be able to get out, but lesser monsters...Like I said I'm sure this is at discretion of DM but second opinions are always nice as I haven't been playing this game very long, let alone DMing.
By RAW, spells only do what they say they do. It can not cause damage, and it can not inflict conditions upon a target.
The description states,
"If you target an area of loose earth, you can instantaneously excavate it, move it along the ground, and deposit it up to 5 feet away. This movement doesn’t have enough force to cause damage."
so, even if a target was in a pit, you would essentially be building the ground up beneath them, rather than dumping dirt on top of them.
That said, if the DM wants to allow cantrips to be used more broadly, then I recommend finding a low level spell to emulate under appropriate conditions.
For example, Entangle or Maximilian's Earthen Grasp: Make a strength saving throw to avoid being restrained.
Burying a creature in several cubic feet of loose earth is probably worthy of some checks/saves against Restrained, assuming they're already in a suitably shaped pit. Spells don't generally inflict conditions like Restrained without saves (Dexterity or Strength would be appropriate) to avoid them, but if you've got the added limitation of them being placed in a suitable 5+-foot deep hole before casting, in suitable terrain, then I don't think there'd be much potential for general abuse if you didn't allow an initial save.... the players should be rewarded for designing a trap and executing it.
Maybe a spell save DC Strength save or Athletics check to free yourself as an action on subsequent rounds? You're firmly in houserule territory, but not really because you're doing something the spell doesn't intend, but more because you're doing something that the spell doesn't define.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
It is agreed that the spell would not cause damage. what we are talking about it moving dirt to create the pit. if they fall into the pit then merely put the dirt back into the hole. it wouldn't cause damage, but they are now buried in dirt. not at all something that is easy to get out of, not to mention if head under cant really breathe.
It's a cantrip, so I wouldn't go killing anyone in it... but there's a lot of preconditions to set this up, so I think it's balanced-ish
That's a lot of resource and time investment into inflicting Restrained, or even Incapacitated, so yeah... if the party can make all those stars align, I'd allow it, because it's not going to be relevant in very many fights at all, so it should feel fun and rewarding when it is.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Basically, the cantrip becomes a magical boost for a mundane trap, so I would calculate it like the players making a comparable trap without the cantrip and then increase the Save DC by +2 for using Mold Earth to ensure it works as well as possible.
Old thread, but some mechanics for buried creatures can be found in a published adventure involving a monarchy and rainy weather.
No damage, but if you can get a medium or smaller creature to get into the hole, then stay in the hole long enough to bury it, might be a good way to adjudicate it. I'll be adding "buried" to my games.
We used the same tactic to restrain zombies and skeletons. They are not quite smart enough to quickly climb out of the hole.
We have used it to create pits in the road to slow down anyone following during a chase.
With a little work it could also be used to topple large trees if you only excavate one side at first.
it mostly depends on your DM;s ruling for loose earth. We do not count an rock heavier than a pound. They stay in the hole.
a sorcerer can do this in one turn using quickened spell.
Considering the investment(actions and sorcery points ) the buried rules posted by carthus seems fair.