Aha, but these spells don't fall under the "fully target self" range either. Why are these rules SO POORLY WRITTEN.
Most spells have ranges expressed in feet. Some spells can target only a creature (including you) that you touch. Other spells, such as the shield spell, affect only you. These spells have a range of self.
Note that it says other spells. Which means self spells are spells that don't fall under "ranges expressed in feet" or "target only a creature (including you) that you touch". Booming Blade has a range expressed in feat, which makes them illegible for this definition of Self.
In addition, "Other spells, such as the shield spell, affect only you." So ignoring the above, in order for this to work Booming Blade would need to only affect solely you. But Booming Blade doesn't affect solely you, it directly involves a attack roll against a creature. Smite spells bypasses this by not calling for any sort of attack as part of the spell, but just buffing the next attack.
Edit: As I said before, RAI this is supposed to fall under the whole point of origin thing, cause the booming blade comes from you. But like, the PHB is not designed to be used this way. Granted, the rules don't even work for spells that are in the PHB, like Thunderwave as I said before.
And the point of origin is the target according to the rules. You can't use AOEs with war caster either.
I realize this may not have been what they meant when they changed the range, but this is what the rules say about the range they created.
Can you cite where it says the point of origin is the/a target? I quoted the rules text that made no mention of it. If it's someplace else, I'd like to know.
Targets
A typical spell requires you to pick one or more targets to be affected by the spell's magic. A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below).
[Snip]
Targeting Yourself
If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself, unless the creature must be hostile or specifically a creature other than you. If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself.
When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature.
The rules are pretty clear that you can't use war caster to cast any spells with a range of self regardless of additional context because a spell with a range of self either can or does target yourself and not only the enemy creature.
Additional rules for this new and unique range is required.
"Must target only that creature" is not the same thing as "must be incapable of targeting more than one creature."
Your first quote: "A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below)." Well, the description is pretty clear that the target is the one creature you make an attack against, so that's a no-go.
Your second quote: "If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself." "Can" is not "must," but booming blade isn't an AoE anyway: its description is very clear that it targets one creature, as per your first quote.
I'm sorry, but nothing you've posted here supports the notion that the caster is a target for booming blade and similar spells.
There are also no rules for spells to have a point of origin without a defined area (ie line, cone, sphere). So technically these spells fully target self and a second creature per the RAW in PHB.
That's a complete non-sequitur. The rules are well-defined for Situation A and Situation B. You cannot say "because the rules aren't well-defined for Situation C, it's technically Situation A." Situation C is not Situation A.
"Must target only that creature" is not the same thing as "must be incapable of targeting more than one creature."
Your second quote: "If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself." "Can" is not "must," but booming blade isn't an AoE anyway: its description is very clear that it targets one creature, as per your first quote.
Wait. Is there actually no problem using war caster OA to cast an AOE as long as only the provoker is in the AOE? Because that would help resolve all but the following.
There are also no rules for spells to have a point of origin without a defined area (ie line, cone, sphere). So technically these spells fully target self and a second creature per the RAW in PHB.
That's a complete non-sequitur. The rules are well-defined for Situation A and Situation B. You cannot say "because the rules aren't well-defined for Situation C, it's technically Situation A." Situation C is not Situation A.
This is still a problem though. Situation C can't be resolved with the existing rules. The spell ranges in TCoE erratas aren't defined in the spellcasting rules as working the way the devs intended, or even working at all. There is no such thing as a point of origin without an area of effect in the rules, so these spells just have 2 ranges that must both be targets of the spell (or alternatively no valid targets due to range error).
As I said, RAI it's been made very clear that it's supposed to go by Situation C = Situation B.
I don't know why WoTC haven't done a errata, or even if anyone has actually brought this up to them. Someone should probably get on twitter and tweet to Crawford so we can get a errata or something.
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if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Well, as the OP, I sure opened a can of worms! I have one thing to add.
I am very pleased, and amazed, at the civility of the discussion in this thread, despite the varying views and disputes over rules interpretation. It could have easily turned into a "you don't what the **** you are talking about, read the ******* book!!" discussion, and it didn't. I'm 59, certainly makes me older than many here, and I'm used to seeing conversations dip into bad form.
Thank you, each and every one of you, for showing class and respect.
Wait. Is there actually no problem using war caster OA to cast an AOE as long as only the provoker is in the AOE?
If anyone caught in the area is automatically affected, then not. At least not according to Jeremy's tweets. And I think his ruling makes perfect sense when you consider that there's no way to guarantee you're only targeting the intended creature with an area spell. There could always be a hidden creature you're not aware of. It could even be hiding in plain sight (e.g. a mimic, gargoyle, or animated object.) Like SagaTympana said the spell doesn't need to be incapable of multiple targets but you do have to ensure it's used in a way that results in only the intended target being affected.
This is still a problem though. Situation C can't be resolved with the existing rules. The spell ranges in TCoE erratas aren't defined in the spellcasting rules as working the way the devs intended, or even working at all. There is no such thing as a point of origin without an area of effect in the rules, so these spells just have 2 ranges that must both be targets of the spell (or alternatively no valid targets due to range error).
I'm confused about your line of reasoning here. The rules are clear about what the notation "Self (area)" means: you're the origin of an area of effect. I don't think introducing some new or ad-hoc area puts us in completely uncharted waters. The rule continues to function the same way, you're just creating an exception to the list of areas that are normally valid for a spell.
Secondly, there is precedent for Booming Blade's weird targeting mechanic, just not with a "Self (area)" spell - Slow asks you to choose up to 6 targets within a cube. I don't believe there's any official rulings on the matter but you should be able to use Slow with War Caster by including the enemy in the cube and then choosing only them. This is analogous to Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade's (effectively) sphere-shaped area from which you then pick one target.
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Aha, but these spells don't fall under the "fully target self" range either. Why are these rules SO POORLY WRITTEN.
Note that it says other spells. Which means self spells are spells that don't fall under "ranges expressed in feet" or "target only a creature (including you) that you touch". Booming Blade has a range expressed in feat, which makes them illegible for this definition of Self.
In addition, "Other spells, such as the shield spell, affect only you." So ignoring the above, in order for this to work Booming Blade would need to only affect solely you. But Booming Blade doesn't affect solely you, it directly involves a attack roll against a creature. Smite spells bypasses this by not calling for any sort of attack as part of the spell, but just buffing the next attack.
Edit: As I said before, RAI this is supposed to fall under the whole point of origin thing, cause the booming blade comes from you. But like, the PHB is not designed to be used this way. Granted, the rules don't even work for spells that are in the PHB, like Thunderwave as I said before.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
"Must target only that creature" is not the same thing as "must be incapable of targeting more than one creature."
Your first quote: "A spell's description tells you whether the spell targets creatures, objects, or a point of origin for an area of effect (described below)." Well, the description is pretty clear that the target is the one creature you make an attack against, so that's a no-go.
Your second quote: "If you are in the area of effect of a spell you cast, you can target yourself." "Can" is not "must," but booming blade isn't an AoE anyway: its description is very clear that it targets one creature, as per your first quote.
I'm sorry, but nothing you've posted here supports the notion that the caster is a target for booming blade and similar spells.
That's a complete non-sequitur. The rules are well-defined for Situation A and Situation B. You cannot say "because the rules aren't well-defined for Situation C, it's technically Situation A." Situation C is not Situation A.
Wait. Is there actually no problem using war caster OA to cast an AOE as long as only the provoker is in the AOE? Because that would help resolve all but the following.
This is still a problem though. Situation C can't be resolved with the existing rules. The spell ranges in TCoE erratas aren't defined in the spellcasting rules as working the way the devs intended, or even working at all. There is no such thing as a point of origin without an area of effect in the rules, so these spells just have 2 ranges that must both be targets of the spell (or alternatively no valid targets due to range error).
As I said, RAI it's been made very clear that it's supposed to go by Situation C = Situation B.
I don't know why WoTC haven't done a errata, or even if anyone has actually brought this up to them. Someone should probably get on twitter and tweet to Crawford so we can get a errata or something.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Well, as the OP, I sure opened a can of worms! I have one thing to add.
I am very pleased, and amazed, at the civility of the discussion in this thread, despite the varying views and disputes over rules interpretation. It could have easily turned into a "you don't what the **** you are talking about, read the ******* book!!" discussion, and it didn't. I'm 59, certainly makes me older than many here, and I'm used to seeing conversations dip into bad form.
Thank you, each and every one of you, for showing class and respect.
If anyone caught in the area is automatically affected, then not. At least not according to Jeremy's tweets. And I think his ruling makes perfect sense when you consider that there's no way to guarantee you're only targeting the intended creature with an area spell. There could always be a hidden creature you're not aware of. It could even be hiding in plain sight (e.g. a mimic, gargoyle, or animated object.) Like SagaTympana said the spell doesn't need to be incapable of multiple targets but you do have to ensure it's used in a way that results in only the intended target being affected.
I'm confused about your line of reasoning here. The rules are clear about what the notation "Self (area)" means: you're the origin of an area of effect. I don't think introducing some new or ad-hoc area puts us in completely uncharted waters. The rule continues to function the same way, you're just creating an exception to the list of areas that are normally valid for a spell.
Secondly, there is precedent for Booming Blade's weird targeting mechanic, just not with a "Self (area)" spell - Slow asks you to choose up to 6 targets within a cube. I don't believe there's any official rulings on the matter but you should be able to use Slow with War Caster by including the enemy in the cube and then choosing only them. This is analogous to Booming Blade and Green-Flame Blade's (effectively) sphere-shaped area from which you then pick one target.
The Forum Infestation (TM)