Hey all, I'm still a relatively new DM. My group blew threw an NPC I created, largely by the Circle of the Shepherds druid's Conjure animals spell. Is there anything officially from Wizards on this spell being overpowered or fixes? I know that part of the problem was that my other baddies to assist the boss were charmed/frozen. There was also some good attack rolls by the druid for the conjured animals. But they ended up dropping 60 plus points of damage on the boss. That ended up being half of her hit points. The boss was a homebrew, and I'm sure she wasn't balanced. Really just looking for advice on countering conjured animals. Not looking to kill the party, but to at least have my boss fights be respectable. Thanks all
One thing is, did you let the player pick the animals? In general in a summon, the DM does. In this case, the player could pick the Cr of them, but you still pick the specific creatures. Probably you want to think of a system for this beforehand, so you don’t just pick a strong or weak option, and do it neutrally.
Also AoE attacks can usually wipe up a large number of these little creatures. But it’s a fine line. You want to be able to counter it if the players keep using the same tactics, but you need to be able to give them the win if they come up with something clever.
It is also concentration, so hitting the druid could cause them all to disappear. So AOE and ranged attacks. Some sort of flight or movement ability for this situation is good too, area denial, crowd control, etc.
Most big bad evil guys are spellcasters for reasons like this. Even when they are melee focused, they usually have special movement abilities and/or ranged options for this.
Lair actions and minions are also good to have in this situation.
I have a question about using this spell along with Wild Shape.
Considering the description of the spell, “They obey any verbal commands that you issue to them (no action required by you). If you don't issue any commands to them, they defend themselves from hostile creatures, but otherwise take no actions.”
If I cast this spell, and whatever creatures show up, I verbally command to “attack any of my enemies”, or perhaps “attack any and all Orcs” (if I needed to be specific), and then Wild Shaped into a beast (implying I can no longer verbally command them). Would this be an acceptable use case? Would the beasts then methodically (perhaps at the DM’s discretion) successively attack the enemies as I did my wild shape beastie thing?
As a DM I am very generous with allowing the player to summon whatever they what with the balancing factor of they are just animals. So the animals can’t “attack my enemies” or move into positions for advanced combat tactics and such. Generally it has to be a command or set of commands given to all of the animals not broken up or complicated like “Fido you help a billy attack orc number 2 after Lassie locks it down.” That being said, I have the caster need to give the animals constant on going commands.
As a DM I am very generous with allowing the player to summon whatever they what with the balancing factor of they are just animals. So the animals can’t “attack my enemies” or move into positions for advanced combat tactics and such. Generally it has to be a command or set of commands given to all of the animals not broken up or complicated like “Fido you help a billy attack orc number 2 after Lassie locks it down.” That being said, I have the caster need to give the animals constant on going commands.
That makes sense, and what I figured would be the case. Just trying to optimize my usage of the spell. What I think I'm going to do, as a means of roleplaying, (working with my DM of course) is to try that, and have it fail. That way my character will properly know it.
As a DM I am very generous with allowing the player to summon whatever they what with the balancing factor of they are just animals. So the animals can’t “attack my enemies” or move into positions for advanced combat tactics and such. Generally it has to be a command or set of commands given to all of the animals not broken up or complicated like “Fido you help a billy attack orc number 2 after Lassie locks it down.” That being said, I have the caster need to give the animals constant on going commands.
That makes sense, and what I figured would be the case. Just trying to optimize my usage of the spell. What I think I'm going to do, as a means of roleplaying, (working with my DM of course) is to try that, and have it fail. That way my character will properly know it.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Just my two sense. It’s such a great spell no matter how the DM/player/table runs it. I will say this, however. I allow a wild shaped druid to command the animals while wild shaped of the wild shaped form is the same as the conjured animals! Like all wolves.
As a DM I am very generous with allowing the player to summon whatever they what with the balancing factor of they are just animals. So the animals can’t “attack my enemies” or move into positions for advanced combat tactics and such. Generally it has to be a command or set of commands given to all of the animals not broken up or complicated like “Fido you help a billy attack orc number 2 after Lassie locks it down.” That being said, I have the caster need to give the animals constant on going commands.
That makes sense, and what I figured would be the case. Just trying to optimize my usage of the spell. What I think I'm going to do, as a means of roleplaying, (working with my DM of course) is to try that, and have it fail. That way my character will properly know it.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Just my two sense. It’s such a great spell no matter how the DM/player/table runs it. I will say this, however. I allow a wild shaped druid to command the animals while wild shaped of the wild shaped form is the same as the conjured animals! Like all wolves.
Oh! Now that is a really good interpretation! Nice. Thank you.
Hey all, I'm still a relatively new DM. My group blew threw an NPC I created, largely by the Circle of the Shepherds druid's Conjure animals spell. Is there anything officially from Wizards on this spell being overpowered or fixes? I know that part of the problem was that my other baddies to assist the boss were charmed/frozen. There was also some good attack rolls by the druid for the conjured animals. But they ended up dropping 60 plus points of damage on the boss. That ended up being half of her hit points. The boss was a homebrew, and I'm sure she wasn't balanced. Really just looking for advice on countering conjured animals. Not looking to kill the party, but to at least have my boss fights be respectable. Thanks all
Here's some advice: https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/254-spell-spotlight-conjure-animals
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
One thing is, did you let the player pick the animals? In general in a summon, the DM does. In this case, the player could pick the Cr of them, but you still pick the specific creatures. Probably you want to think of a system for this beforehand, so you don’t just pick a strong or weak option, and do it neutrally.
Also AoE attacks can usually wipe up a large number of these little creatures.
But it’s a fine line. You want to be able to counter it if the players keep using the same tactics, but you need to be able to give them the win if they come up with something clever.
It is also concentration, so hitting the druid could cause them all to disappear. So AOE and ranged attacks. Some sort of flight or movement ability for this situation is good too, area denial, crowd control, etc.
Most big bad evil guys are spellcasters for reasons like this. Even when they are melee focused, they usually have special movement abilities and/or ranged options for this.
Lair actions and minions are also good to have in this situation.
thanks all. really helpful stuff ill be able to apply easily, Thanks for taking the ime
I have a question about using this spell along with Wild Shape.
Considering the description of the spell, “They obey any verbal commands that you issue to them (no action required by you). If you don't issue any commands to them, they defend themselves from hostile creatures, but otherwise take no actions.”
If I cast this spell, and whatever creatures show up, I verbally command to “attack any of my enemies”, or perhaps “attack any and all Orcs” (if I needed to be specific), and then Wild Shaped into a beast (implying I can no longer verbally command them). Would this be an acceptable use case? Would the beasts then methodically (perhaps at the DM’s discretion) successively attack the enemies as I did my wild shape beastie thing?
Thanks.
As a DM I am very generous with allowing the player to summon whatever they what with the balancing factor of they are just animals. So the animals can’t “attack my enemies” or move into positions for advanced combat tactics and such. Generally it has to be a command or set of commands given to all of the animals not broken up or complicated like “Fido you help a billy attack orc number 2 after Lassie locks it down.” That being said, I have the caster need to give the animals constant on going commands.
That makes sense, and what I figured would be the case. Just trying to optimize my usage of the spell. What I think I'm going to do, as a means of roleplaying, (working with my DM of course) is to try that, and have it fail. That way my character will properly know it.
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
Just my two sense. It’s such a great spell no matter how the DM/player/table runs it. I will say this, however. I allow a wild shaped druid to command the animals while wild shaped of the wild shaped form is the same as the conjured animals! Like all wolves.
Oh! Now that is a really good interpretation! Nice. Thank you.
Two dire wolves or brown bears on the battlefield at level 5 is...awesome!
Recall that the spell is concentration. Only one instance at a time.
I meant either or. Dire wolves or brown bears.