This is the first time this particular combination is coming up for me, so any examples and explanations are quite welcome.
The PC is a 6th level Barbarian/Path of the Berserker.
His typical go-to weapon choices will be either
Option A)Greatsword or Option B)Shortsword and Handaxe
Now, I know that he can attack twice when taking the Attack action. And I know that he can use a Bonus action when meeting the requirements of TWF (light weapon in each hand) So, does that mean that when using Option A he can get 2 attacks as his action, and when using Option B he can get 3 attacks as his action?
Do I have that right? If so, how does Frenzy Attack play into that scenario?
Finally, is there a way on the character sheet to have the Actions show the right bonuses for fighting with 2 light weapons? Specifically, can it be set to not show/roll the STR modifier on the off-hand weapon?
2 attacks as your Attack action. If holding a light weapon in both hands and made at least 1 attack with one of them for your attack action then you can use a bonus action to attack with the other weapon.
If using a greatsword, you cannot take the bonus action attack as it does not meet the TWF rules.
Frenzied Rage:
2 attacks as your attack and you can make 1 melee weapon attack as a bonus action (this can be with any weapon and it doesn't matter if you attacked with your action or not). So regardless of which weapon options, it's 3 attacks in a turn.
--
On character sheet, for TWF, equip both weapons. For one of them click on it, choose customise and select "Dual Wield". It will now show under Bonus Actions with the str/dex mod removed from damage.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Barabarian takes the attack action and gets two attacks. It doesn't matter whether they are using a greatsword or wielding two weapons- they get 2 attacks with the appropriate weapon as part of their action.
The difference comes with using the BONUS action.
In frenzied rage:
The barbarian can take one more attack as a bonus action no matter what weapons they are using. The could get an additional attack with the greatsword or an additional attack with the shortsword or handaxe.
When wielding two light weapons:
The barbarian can make a bonus action attack with one of the light weapons they are holding.
The barbarian has ONE bonus action - it could be either for a Frenzied bonus attack OR if they are wielding two light weapons they could make a two weapon fighting bonus attack.
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So to summarize:
Greatsword - two attacks as part of the attack action + 1 bonus action attack if frenzied rage
Two weapon fighting - two attacks as part of the attack action + 1 bonus action attack EITHER from two weapon fighting OR from frenzied rage (if raging) but not both.
The bonus action attack from Two weapon fighting is always available when the barbarian takes the attack action and is wielding two weapon fighting weapons.
2 weapons = 2 Attacks on the Action + an Attack on the Bonus Action (minus the off-hand damage modifier)
If he's using Rage, then he adds the Rage damage modifier (+2 at his level)
If he uses Frenzy (from the Berserker path), he gets a Bonus Action to try to hit again (single melee weapon attack) which starts on the next turn after choosing to Frenzy while still in a Rage.
So, the next turn looks like this:
1 weapon = 2 Attacks on the Action + an Attack on the Bonus Action (with all modifiers)
2 weapons = 2 Attacks on the Action + an Attack on the Bonus Action (with all modifiers)
So when he is both Raging and Frenzying (makes me wanna play Werewolf...) there's absolutely no difference between how many attacks he gets regardless of what's in his hands.
If I wanted to break it down into some average damage numbers, I think it's along these lines:
Not Raging, using Greatsword: 20
Not Raging, using Short Sword & Handaxe: 16.5 (that loss of the STR mod doesn't make up for the greater Greatsword damage)
Raging, using Greatsword: 22
Raging, using Short Sword & Handaxe: 18.5
Frenzying, using Greatsword: 30
Frenzying, using Short Sword & Handaxe: 19.5
This really means that, with this particular character and those particular weapon options, the only reason to go TWF is for style. Certainly changing up the specific weapons can throw some more variety in there (ranged vs melee, bludgeoning vs slashing, etc.)
If I wanted to break it down into some average damage numbers, I think it's along these lines:
Not Raging, using Greatsword: 20
Not Raging, using Short Sword & Handaxe: 16.5 (that loss of the STR mod doesn't make up for the greater Greatsword damage)
Raging, using Greatsword: 22
Raging, using Short Sword & Handaxe: 18.5
Frenzying, using Greatsword: 30
Frenzying, using Short Sword & Handaxe: 19.5
This really means that, with this particular character and those particular weapon options, the only reason to go TWF is for style. Certainly changing up the specific weapons can throw some more variety in there (ranged vs melee, bludgeoning vs slashing, etc.)
Do I have that right?
I pretty much agree with everything else, but let me take a closer look at those numbers. I assume by the damage you calculated that you have a +3 from STR.
Not raging
Greatsword (2d6+3)×2= 20
2 handaxe/shortsword (1d6+3)×2+1d6= 16.5
Raging
Gs (2d6+5)×2= 24
2Ha/Ss (1d6+5)×2+1d6+2= 22.5
Frenzy
Gs (2d6+5)×3= 36
2Ha/Ss (1d6+5)×3= 25.5
Seems you weren't adding rage bonus to every attack. 2 weapon fighting actually is better with level 16 rage bonus (when not frenzy).
If your frenzied there is no reason to use two handed light weapons. You can use a non-light one handed weapon and a shield since the bonus action can be made with the same hand.
A warhammer would be a good example, your damage die would increase to a 1d8 instead of a 1d6 while making use of the shield for slightly higher AC. Kind of niche, but sometimes a barbarian actually wants to have some AC.
this means the berserker doesn’t have to deal with possibly limited numbers of magic items, as the DM has to work a little bit harder to supply wo weapon fighters. You can now potentially make use of cool shields too without sacrificing so much of your offense.
I wouldn’t say this is worth exhaustion though, especially now that the beast exists.
This is the first time this particular combination is coming up for me, so any examples and explanations are quite welcome.
The PC is a 6th level Barbarian/Path of the Berserker.
His typical go-to weapon choices will be either
Option A)Greatsword
or
Option B)Shortsword and Handaxe
Now, I know that he can attack twice when taking the Attack action. And I know that he can use a Bonus action when meeting the requirements of TWF (light weapon in each hand)
So, does that mean that when using Option A he can get 2 attacks as his action, and when using Option B he can get 3 attacks as his action?
Do I have that right?
If so, how does Frenzy Attack play into that scenario?
Finally, is there a way on the character sheet to have the Actions show the right bonuses for fighting with 2 light weapons? Specifically, can it be set to not show/roll the STR modifier on the off-hand weapon?
Thanks, folks!
As a Beserker Barbarian:
Normal / Raging:
2 attacks as your Attack action. If holding a light weapon in both hands and made at least 1 attack with one of them for your attack action then you can use a bonus action to attack with the other weapon.
If using a greatsword, you cannot take the bonus action attack as it does not meet the TWF rules.
Frenzied Rage:
2 attacks as your attack and you can make 1 melee weapon attack as a bonus action (this can be with any weapon and it doesn't matter if you attacked with your action or not). So regardless of which weapon options, it's 3 attacks in a turn.
--
On character sheet, for TWF, equip both weapons. For one of them click on it, choose customise and select "Dual Wield". It will now show under Bonus Actions with the str/dex mod removed from damage.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
The bonus attack from two weapon fighting uses your bonus action. Since frenzied attack also used bonus action, you only have 3 attacks either way.
Better off just using the great weapon in this case.
Another way to summarize it
Barabarian takes the attack action and gets two attacks. It doesn't matter whether they are using a greatsword or wielding two weapons- they get 2 attacks with the appropriate weapon as part of their action.
The difference comes with using the BONUS action.
In frenzied rage:
The barbarian can take one more attack as a bonus action no matter what weapons they are using. The could get an additional attack with the greatsword or an additional attack with the shortsword or handaxe.
When wielding two light weapons:
The barbarian can make a bonus action attack with one of the light weapons they are holding.
The barbarian has ONE bonus action - it could be either for a Frenzied bonus attack OR if they are wielding two light weapons they could make a two weapon fighting bonus attack.
--------------------------
So to summarize:
Greatsword - two attacks as part of the attack action + 1 bonus action attack if frenzied rage
Two weapon fighting - two attacks as part of the attack action + 1 bonus action attack EITHER from two weapon fighting OR from frenzied rage (if raging) but not both.
The bonus action attack from Two weapon fighting is always available when the barbarian takes the attack action and is wielding two weapon fighting weapons.
Ok, tell me if I've grasped this in its entirety.
This really means that, with this particular character and those particular weapon options, the only reason to go TWF is for style. Certainly changing up the specific weapons can throw some more variety in there (ranged vs melee, bludgeoning vs slashing, etc.)
Do I have that right?
I pretty much agree with everything else, but let me take a closer look at those numbers. I assume by the damage you calculated that you have a +3 from STR.
Seems you weren't adding rage bonus to every attack. 2 weapon fighting actually is better with level 16 rage bonus (when not frenzy).
Yup, great catch!
Thanks so much
If your frenzied there is no reason to use two handed light weapons. You can use a non-light one handed weapon and a shield since the bonus action can be made with the same hand.
A warhammer would be a good example, your damage die would increase to a 1d8 instead of a 1d6 while making use of the shield for slightly higher AC. Kind of niche, but sometimes a barbarian actually wants to have some AC.
this means the berserker doesn’t have to deal with possibly limited numbers of magic items, as the DM has to work a little bit harder to supply wo weapon fighters. You can now potentially make use of cool shields too without sacrificing so much of your offense.
I wouldn’t say this is worth exhaustion though, especially now that the beast exists.