I apologize if this question has already been asked and answered on this forum. I searched but didn't immediately find an answer.
Here's my question ... If you change the Ability Score Increase trait (following the rules laid out in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) for your character's race/subrace, do you also change the spellcasting ability if the race/subrace has innate spellcasting? For example, if I change my PHB (Asmodeus) Tiefling's Ability Score Increase trait from +2 Charisma to +2 Wisdom (keeping +1 Intelligence as is), does the spellcasting ability for the Infernal Legacy spells also change from Charisma to Wisdom?
So, for example, a high-Wisdom Tiefling cleric (+2 Charisma changed to +2 Wisdom) would be stuck using Charisma (dump stat) for racial spells? In other words, following Tasha's new optional rules, a character that wants to follow "their own path" (TCoE, p. 7) can have new ability scores ... which is GREAT. But, unfortunately, the character's innate spellcasting is based on a predetermined ability (Charisma for Tieflings, Constitution for Genasi, etc.). That's too bad. Seems like you should be able to change the racial spellcasting ability as well. How are DMs handling this issue?
So, for example, a high-Wisdom Tiefling cleric (+2 Charisma changed to +2 Wisdom) would be stuck using Charisma (dump stat) for racial spells? In other words, following Tasha's new optional rules, a character that wants to follow "their own path" (TCoE, p. 7) can have new ability scores ... which is GREAT. But, unfortunately, the character's innate spellcasting is based on a predetermined ability (Charisma for Tieflings, Constitution for Genasi, etc.). That's too bad. Seems like you should be able to change the racial spellcasting ability as well. How are DMs handling this issue?
I think you're misunderstanding the intent of the rule. The idea is not to trivialize optimization of characters, and it's not to erase the meaning of the different stats by making them interchangeable. It's twofold: 1) to dissociate old preconceptions as a way to stop promoting discriminatory mindsets (i.e. get rid of the "orcs are dumb savages, so they're worth less than smart graceful elves" mentality), and 2) to allow you to play more exceptional (as opposed to standard) members of races (i.e. playing a smart graceful orc, who decided to pursue a magical path rather than a martial one). If you decide to play a less Charismatic Tiefling, you'll naturally excel less at activities relying on Charisma, which include social skills and their racial spellcasting. That's as "too bad" as a str/con Fighter who isn't very good at Persuasion, or a standard Berserker Barbarian whose Intimidating Presence DC is lower than you'd like, since they didn't invest in Charisma.
I like to think of Charisma as "force of being" or "strength of will" or "existance" rather than just persuasiveness/suave/attractive. A lot of racial abilities are charisma based because they are inherent relying on your idea of SELF. This is also why things like banishment are charisma saves. You're not resisting with your state of mind (int/wis) your resisting with the idea of "I EXIST HERE. THIS IS ME"
Typing this out makes me realize its REALLY hard to explain lol.
I promise it makes more sense in my head! but it explains why a lot of racial features rely on charisma and why if it were any other ability, it wouldn't fit the feel of the ability scores as well.
(I hope this made a little sense cause damn, It sounds weird written out lol)
Seems like you should be able to change the racial spellcasting ability as well. How are DMs handling this issue?
I haven't allowed players to change their tiefling character's innate spellcasting attribute from Charisma, but I have allowed players to chose alternate the innate spells that their tiefling heritage provides to them. This option isn't specifically allowed by Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, but it is something that I have allowed (as the DM) to provide some addition versatility in my campaigns. Then again, I've been a big fan of the Planescape setting and follow the original concepts that tieflings are part something lower planar versus being strictly tied to the Nine Hells (Baator).
My personal house rules for this is pretty straightforward:
Tiefling gains one cantrip as a 1st-level characer
Tiefling gains one 1st-level spell (which is cast at 2nd-level) as a 3rd-level character. Spell can be cast once before needing a long rest.
Tiefling gains one 2nd-level spell as a 5th-level character. Spell can be cast once before needing a long rest.
So, basically, they're just trading out their spells for something of similar level/power that would more closely fit their character design and/or fiendish heritage. One of my players, for example, decided their tiefling was a descendent of Orcus. So, they had chill touch, hex, and ray of enfeeblement as their tiefling legacy spells.
I apologize if this question has already been asked and answered on this forum. I searched but didn't immediately find an answer.
Here's my question ... If you change the Ability Score Increase trait (following the rules laid out in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) for your character's race/subrace, do you also change the spellcasting ability if the race/subrace has innate spellcasting? For example, if I change my PHB (Asmodeus) Tiefling's Ability Score Increase trait from +2 Charisma to +2 Wisdom (keeping +1 Intelligence as is), does the spellcasting ability for the Infernal Legacy spells also change from Charisma to Wisdom?
The purpose of the Tasha's rules is to create members of the race as PCs that are exceptional in areas that are less characteristic for the race itself (thus breaking stereotypes and preconceived ideas of what D&D races are supposed to be like). Thus a tiefling that is wise rather than charismatic. However, Tasha's is not intended as an optimization tool to modify all racial features to conform to a character concept where racial features depend on the stats the character chooses.
In the case of the tiefling, the spells are based on charisma or the character's force of will which is a racial characteristic and not one due to a particular member of the race having abilities that differ from the average members of the species.
A DM can rule however they like and I personally think the homebrew above that lets the character choose their racial characteristic spells is quite cool and thematic depending on the particular origin of that particular character. However, in games I run, if I allow the Tasha's reorganization of stat bonuses, the other racial characteristics will remain unchanged, including the relevant stat for racial spell casting.
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I apologize if this question has already been asked and answered on this forum. I searched but didn't immediately find an answer.
Here's my question ... If you change the Ability Score Increase trait (following the rules laid out in Tasha's Cauldron of Everything) for your character's race/subrace, do you also change the spellcasting ability if the race/subrace has innate spellcasting? For example, if I change my PHB (Asmodeus) Tiefling's Ability Score Increase trait from +2 Charisma to +2 Wisdom (keeping +1 Intelligence as is), does the spellcasting ability for the Infernal Legacy spells also change from Charisma to Wisdom?
Spellcasting ability of race spells stay the same.
So, for example, a high-Wisdom Tiefling cleric (+2 Charisma changed to +2 Wisdom) would be stuck using Charisma (dump stat) for racial spells? In other words, following Tasha's new optional rules, a character that wants to follow "their own path" (TCoE, p. 7) can have new ability scores ... which is GREAT. But, unfortunately, the character's innate spellcasting is based on a predetermined ability (Charisma for Tieflings, Constitution for Genasi, etc.). That's too bad. Seems like you should be able to change the racial spellcasting ability as well. How are DMs handling this issue?
I think you're misunderstanding the intent of the rule. The idea is not to trivialize optimization of characters, and it's not to erase the meaning of the different stats by making them interchangeable. It's twofold: 1) to dissociate old preconceptions as a way to stop promoting discriminatory mindsets (i.e. get rid of the "orcs are dumb savages, so they're worth less than smart graceful elves" mentality), and 2) to allow you to play more exceptional (as opposed to standard) members of races (i.e. playing a smart graceful orc, who decided to pursue a magical path rather than a martial one). If you decide to play a less Charismatic Tiefling, you'll naturally excel less at activities relying on Charisma, which include social skills and their racial spellcasting. That's as "too bad" as a str/con Fighter who isn't very good at Persuasion, or a standard Berserker Barbarian whose Intimidating Presence DC is lower than you'd like, since they didn't invest in Charisma.
I like to think of Charisma as "force of being" or "strength of will" or "existance" rather than just persuasiveness/suave/attractive. A lot of racial abilities are charisma based because they are inherent relying on your idea of SELF. This is also why things like banishment are charisma saves. You're not resisting with your state of mind (int/wis) your resisting with the idea of "I EXIST HERE. THIS IS ME"
Typing this out makes me realize its REALLY hard to explain lol.
I promise it makes more sense in my head! but it explains why a lot of racial features rely on charisma and why if it were any other ability, it wouldn't fit the feel of the ability scores as well.
(I hope this made a little sense cause damn, It sounds weird written out lol)
I haven't allowed players to change their tiefling character's innate spellcasting attribute from Charisma, but I have allowed players to chose alternate the innate spells that their tiefling heritage provides to them. This option isn't specifically allowed by Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, but it is something that I have allowed (as the DM) to provide some addition versatility in my campaigns. Then again, I've been a big fan of the Planescape setting and follow the original concepts that tieflings are part something lower planar versus being strictly tied to the Nine Hells (Baator).
My personal house rules for this is pretty straightforward:
So, basically, they're just trading out their spells for something of similar level/power that would more closely fit their character design and/or fiendish heritage. One of my players, for example, decided their tiefling was a descendent of Orcus. So, they had chill touch, hex, and ray of enfeeblement as their tiefling legacy spells.
If it doesn't say it, it doesn't do it.
The purpose of the Tasha's rules is to create members of the race as PCs that are exceptional in areas that are less characteristic for the race itself (thus breaking stereotypes and preconceived ideas of what D&D races are supposed to be like). Thus a tiefling that is wise rather than charismatic. However, Tasha's is not intended as an optimization tool to modify all racial features to conform to a character concept where racial features depend on the stats the character chooses.
In the case of the tiefling, the spells are based on charisma or the character's force of will which is a racial characteristic and not one due to a particular member of the race having abilities that differ from the average members of the species.
A DM can rule however they like and I personally think the homebrew above that lets the character choose their racial characteristic spells is quite cool and thematic depending on the particular origin of that particular character. However, in games I run, if I allow the Tasha's reorganization of stat bonuses, the other racial characteristics will remain unchanged, including the relevant stat for racial spell casting.