Is the communication from the Forest Gnome ability, Speak with Small Beasts, a one way or two way thing? (I'm ignoring the interpretation of "simple ideas" for this thread.).
For some context, here is the spell Speak with Animals, which I must admit works against my desired interpretation of Speak with Small Beasts.
Speak with Small Beasts. Through sounds and gestures, you can communicate simple ideas with Small or smaller beasts. Forest gnomes love animals and often keep squirrels, badgers, rabbits, moles, woodpeckers, and other creatures as beloved pets.
You gain the ability to comprehend and verbally communicate with beasts for the duration. The knowledge and awareness of many beasts is limited by their intelligence, but at minimum, beasts can give you information about nearby locations and monsters, including whatever they can perceive or have perceived within the past day. You might be able to persuade a beast to perform a small favor for you, at the GM's discretion.
You have the ability to communicate in a limited manner with beasts and plants. They can understand the meaning of your words, though you have no special ability to understand them in return. You have advantage on all Charisma checks you make to influence them.
Since Speech of Beast and Leaf is very explicit about the communication being one directional, I think it is safe to interpret the Gnome ability more generously.
Given the 3 examples of animal communication exemplified, I would say that speak with small beasts is able to communicate in both directions, but only simple concepts:
Yes/no
Food/prey
Predator
Plant/animal/bug/etc
Sizes up to large accurately
Seasons
Day/night
Moon phases
Shiny
That kind of thing. Asking if a caravan went by an hour ago would mostly be beyond their understanding, but asking if humans, large beasts, and a bigger thing went by together on this day would probably work.
I personally lean towards it being a one way feature. You are capable of communicating simple ideas and concepts in such a way that they understand it, but nowhere is it mentioned that you understand them in turn. Speak With Animals explicitly states that you are able to understand the other party as they try and communicate with you.
The definition of "Beast" is something that is not found in the real world, in D&D, there's no difference between a Beast and an Animal. The only real consideration is that it requires an intelligence of 6 or greater to learn a language or to speak it. I found that little tidbit in the rules for Find Steed. Otherwise, you end up following DxJxC's list. (I loved the bit about "shiny")
The definition of "Beast" is something that is not found in the real world, in D&D, there's no difference between a Beast and an Animal. The only real consideration is that it requires an intelligence of 6 or greater to learn a language or to speak it. I found that little tidbit in the rules for Find Steed. Otherwise, you end up following DxJxC's list. (I loved the bit about "shiny")
In D&D "Beast" is a defined type of creatures. Usually what we would call animals yes but I at least find it helpful to remember where the rules have strict definitions.
From the MM.
Beasts are nonhumanoid creatures that are a natural part of the fantasy ecology. Some of them have magical powers, but most are unintelligent and lack any society or language. Beasts include all varieties of ordinary animals, dinosaurs, and giant versions of animals.
The definition of "Beast" is something that is not found in the real world, in D&D, there's no difference between a Beast and an Animal. The only real consideration is that it requires an intelligence of 6 or greater to learn a language or to speak it. I found that little tidbit in the rules for Find Steed. Otherwise, you end up following DxJxC's list. (I loved the bit about "shiny")
PCs can have an intelligence below 6, and there is no mention of them being nonverbal as a result. You can communicate with a familiar telepathically and some of them have an int of 2.
The steed in find steed gets a 6 int, yes, but that just means they are smarter than a typical steed, not that 6 is the minimum for communicating.
The definition of "Beast" is something that is not found in the real world, in D&D, there's no difference between a Beast and an Animal. The only real consideration is that it requires an intelligence of 6 or greater to learn a language or to speak it. I found that little tidbit in the rules for Find Steed. Otherwise, you end up following DxJxC's list. (I loved the bit about "shiny")
PCs can have an intelligence below 6, and there is no mention of them being nonverbal as a result. You can communicate with a familiar telepathically and some of them have an int of 2.
The steed in find steed gets a 6 int, yes, but that just means they are smarter than a typical steed, not that 6 is the minimum for communicating.
Geann's been posting about intelligence minimums all over today. I guess they're excited about something they found, lol.
For what it's worth, Feeblemind makes your intelligence 1 and makes you unable to read, speak, or understand language. That's two separate effects. One could surmise that this means having an intelligence of 1 is not in itself sufficient to make you unable to read, speak, or understand language.
I personally lean towards it being a one way feature. You are capable of communicating simple ideas and concepts in such a way that they understand it, but nowhere is it mentioned that you understand them in turn. Speak With Animals explicitly states that you are able to understand the other party as they try and communicate with you.
It's intended to be two-way, so that Forest Gnomes can also receive specific warnings from their forest "neighbors" about intruders approaching the area. The limiting factor is that it can't be with a Medium or larger beast.
I also play a Forest Gnome ;) A lot depends on speaking and asking in a way that would make sense to the animal, and limited by the concepts the animal can communicate (you're more or less using their "language" to talk.)
I personally lean towards it being a one way feature. You are capable of communicating simple ideas and concepts in such a way that they understand it, but nowhere is it mentioned that you understand them in turn. Speak With Animals explicitly states that you are able to understand the other party as they try and communicate with you.
It's intended to be two-way, so that Forest Gnomes can also receive specific warnings from their forest "neighbors" about intruders approaching the area. The limiting factor is that it can't be with a Medium or larger beast.
I also play a Forest Gnome ;) A lot depends on speaking and asking in a way that would make sense to the animal, and limited by the concepts the animal can communicate (you're more or less using their "language" to talk.)
Hey! Sorry to bring this thread from the dead, but got a question... I've started a campaign where my wife is a forest gnome, and has enjoyed making use of this feature. I'm not sure where the limitations are.. I've broadly gone yes/no stuff, but she began asking things like "Are there people in there" (read: are there enemies in there), "how many", etc.
As a player of a forest gnome, how has this been handled at your table or how would you expect it to be handled?
I personally lean towards it being a one way feature. You are capable of communicating simple ideas and concepts in such a way that they understand it, but nowhere is it mentioned that you understand them in turn. Speak With Animals explicitly states that you are able to understand the other party as they try and communicate with you.
It's intended to be two-way, so that Forest Gnomes can also receive specific warnings from their forest "neighbors" about intruders approaching the area. The limiting factor is that it can't be with a Medium or larger beast.
I also play a Forest Gnome ;) A lot depends on speaking and asking in a way that would make sense to the animal, and limited by the concepts the animal can communicate (you're more or less using their "language" to talk.)
Hey! Sorry to bring this thread from the dead, but got a question... I've started a campaign where my wife is a forest gnome, and has enjoyed making use of this feature. I'm not sure where the limitations are.. I've broadly gone yes/no stuff, but she began asking things like "Are there people in there" (read: are there enemies in there), "how many", etc.
As a player of a forest gnome, how has this been handled at your table or how would you expect it to be handled?
"Are there things in there that are like me?" is simple enough for a rat to answer for sure - the only problem is you need to deal with the rat's definition of "like". "How many" is dangerous - a hamster is unlikely to have a strong understanding of counting or natural numbers. "One, some, many, lots" are about the limits of what I'd expect to get in terms of quantity.
Feel free to have your rabbits give more information about things that make sense - maybe they have 100 different not-words for carrot and can speak in terms so complex your wife can't keep up. But for sophont-realm questions, by and large they should have a fundamentally alien outlook compared to a humanoid, not to mention being stupid in humanoid terms. They won't really remember the past or contemplate the future - they'll very much live in the now.
I personally lean towards it being a one way feature. You are capable of communicating simple ideas and concepts in such a way that they understand it, but nowhere is it mentioned that you understand them in turn. Speak With Animals explicitly states that you are able to understand the other party as they try and communicate with you.
It's intended to be two-way, so that Forest Gnomes can also receive specific warnings from their forest "neighbors" about intruders approaching the area. The limiting factor is that it can't be with a Medium or larger beast.
I also play a Forest Gnome ;) A lot depends on speaking and asking in a way that would make sense to the animal, and limited by the concepts the animal can communicate (you're more or less using their "language" to talk.)
Hey! Sorry to bring this thread from the dead, but got a question... I've started a campaign where my wife is a forest gnome, and has enjoyed making use of this feature. I'm not sure where the limitations are.. I've broadly gone yes/no stuff, but she began asking things like "Are there people in there" (read: are there enemies in there), "how many", etc.
As a player of a forest gnome, how has this been handled at your table or how would you expect it to be handled?
Sure! The main thing is to answer from the point of view of the beast. A creature with low intelligence wouldn't be able to give a very definite number answer - think "1", "2", "many"; possibly "more than us!" or "fewer than us!" If asked "is there a secret passage into the hideout?", a rat could lead the party to one... that's only big enough for a rat to pass through. Or like if a hawk were asked, "Where did you come from?" "Egg!" Asking "how many people in there?" could be interpreted as "how many of your kind are in there?" Or they could describe humanoids, but without a good understanding of what clothing is, or describe a bearded person as having "a furry face". They wouldn't understand the concept of a week, a day is "bright time", a night is "dark time". They could remember things wrong (just like regular people.) Respond with "huh?" or a blank stare is the question is too complicated.
It's best if you make the player need to consider how to ask the right questions. A creature may not feel like helping, they may want food before talking, they could get impatient and leave if asked too many confusing questions that mean nothing to them. Feel free to ask for an Animal Handling check for a creature that would be rattled if the PC approached them, and if the gnome is trying to convince them to do something above and beyond, ask for a Persuasion check.
Anyway, that's a start for how to approach the matter. Small beasts are not going to be perfect little tactical scouts :)
Is the communication from the Forest Gnome ability, Speak with Small Beasts, a one way or two way thing? (I'm ignoring the interpretation of "simple ideas" for this thread.).
For some context, here is the spell Speak with Animals, which I must admit works against my desired interpretation of Speak with Small Beasts.
I’m assuming it’s two way. Otherwise it would be lecture to small beasts. Speak with implies conversation which takes two.
Compare to the similar Firbolg ability:
Since Speech of Beast and Leaf is very explicit about the communication being one directional, I think it is safe to interpret the Gnome ability more generously.
Given the 3 examples of animal communication exemplified, I would say that speak with small beasts is able to communicate in both directions, but only simple concepts:
That kind of thing. Asking if a caravan went by an hour ago would mostly be beyond their understanding, but asking if humans, large beasts, and a bigger thing went by together on this day would probably work.
I personally lean towards it being a one way feature. You are capable of communicating simple ideas and concepts in such a way that they understand it, but nowhere is it mentioned that you understand them in turn. Speak With Animals explicitly states that you are able to understand the other party as they try and communicate with you.
The definition of "Beast" is something that is not found in the real world, in D&D, there's no difference between a Beast and an Animal. The only real consideration is that it requires an intelligence of 6 or greater to learn a language or to speak it. I found that little tidbit in the rules for Find Steed. Otherwise, you end up following DxJxC's list. (I loved the bit about "shiny")
<Insert clever signature here>
In D&D "Beast" is a defined type of creatures. Usually what we would call animals yes but I at least find it helpful to remember where the rules have strict definitions.
From the MM.
PCs can have an intelligence below 6, and there is no mention of them being nonverbal as a result.
You can communicate with a familiar telepathically and some of them have an int of 2.
The steed in find steed gets a 6 int, yes, but that just means they are smarter than a typical steed, not that 6 is the minimum for communicating.
Geann's been posting about intelligence minimums all over today. I guess they're excited about something they found, lol.
For what it's worth, Feeblemind makes your intelligence 1 and makes you unable to read, speak, or understand language. That's two separate effects. One could surmise that this means having an intelligence of 1 is not in itself sufficient to make you unable to read, speak, or understand language.
It's intended to be two-way, so that Forest Gnomes can also receive specific warnings from their forest "neighbors" about intruders approaching the area. The limiting factor is that it can't be with a Medium or larger beast.
I also play a Forest Gnome ;) A lot depends on speaking and asking in a way that would make sense to the animal, and limited by the concepts the animal can communicate (you're more or less using their "language" to talk.)
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Hey! Sorry to bring this thread from the dead, but got a question... I've started a campaign where my wife is a forest gnome, and has enjoyed making use of this feature. I'm not sure where the limitations are.. I've broadly gone yes/no stuff, but she began asking things like "Are there people in there" (read: are there enemies in there), "how many", etc.
As a player of a forest gnome, how has this been handled at your table or how would you expect it to be handled?
"Are there things in there that are like me?" is simple enough for a rat to answer for sure - the only problem is you need to deal with the rat's definition of "like". "How many" is dangerous - a hamster is unlikely to have a strong understanding of counting or natural numbers. "One, some, many, lots" are about the limits of what I'd expect to get in terms of quantity.
Feel free to have your rabbits give more information about things that make sense - maybe they have 100 different not-words for carrot and can speak in terms so complex your wife can't keep up. But for sophont-realm questions, by and large they should have a fundamentally alien outlook compared to a humanoid, not to mention being stupid in humanoid terms. They won't really remember the past or contemplate the future - they'll very much live in the now.
Sure! The main thing is to answer from the point of view of the beast. A creature with low intelligence wouldn't be able to give a very definite number answer - think "1", "2", "many"; possibly "more than us!" or "fewer than us!" If asked "is there a secret passage into the hideout?", a rat could lead the party to one... that's only big enough for a rat to pass through. Or like if a hawk were asked, "Where did you come from?" "Egg!" Asking "how many people in there?" could be interpreted as "how many of your kind are in there?" Or they could describe humanoids, but without a good understanding of what clothing is, or describe a bearded person as having "a furry face". They wouldn't understand the concept of a week, a day is "bright time", a night is "dark time". They could remember things wrong (just like regular people.) Respond with "huh?" or a blank stare is the question is too complicated.
It's best if you make the player need to consider how to ask the right questions. A creature may not feel like helping, they may want food before talking, they could get impatient and leave if asked too many confusing questions that mean nothing to them. Feel free to ask for an Animal Handling check for a creature that would be rattled if the PC approached them, and if the gnome is trying to convince them to do something above and beyond, ask for a Persuasion check.
Anyway, that's a start for how to approach the matter. Small beasts are not going to be perfect little tactical scouts :)
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I use speak with small beasts. I weigh 40 lbs. I ask two harpy eagles to carry me away.