If you take them as class spells for you casting class — I’m assuming you mean wizard. Each spell would be different. Poison spray is a cantrip. It’s going to depend on your DM if they’ll let you, basically take it twice. I might allow it, personally. It seems like you’re undercutting yourself by effectively taking the same cantrip twice, so it’s not like a big benefit.
For animal friendship, I don’t think wizards get access to that, so you’d have no way to have the spell with slots.
For suggestion, I’d say you can, if you memorize it like it was a normal spell. You have one use of it based on charisma based on race, and then the others based on casting it normally as a spell.
No, you are not immune to fear. It doesn’t say you are, so you are not. That line is more of a rp suggestion.
For Info purposes I am considering building a Yuan-ti Pureblood Artificer Armourer, Clan Crafter Background
Level 1 stats
Str 8 (-1), Dex 13 (1), Con 16 (3), Int 17 (3), Wis 12 (1), Cha 8 (-1)
Skills: Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation
Saving throws: Con, Int
Tools Thieves, Tinkers, Smiths, Leatherworkers and adding either Jewellers or glass worker at level 3
Languages: Common, Abysal, Draconic, Dwarven adding 3 more at level 4 by taking languages feat for an int increase of 1 to 18
as Yuan-ti have resistance to magical and poison on top of the artificers AC he should be quite hard to hit, but as I might need to use Resilient Feet to gain proficiency for Dex throws to help close a weakness to breath weapons etc, Dex modifier has been left as an odd number
My thought was
level 4 - Languages feat taking Int to 18
level 8 - 2 to Int taking it to 20
Level 12 - 2 to Con taking it to 18
Level 16 - 2 to Con taking it to 20
Level 19 - Resilient feat on Dex giving Proficiency and taking it to 14 ( but this I am very unsure of)
Also what extra languages should I take at level 4? Orc, Giant, Infernal?
If you take them as class spells for you casting class — I’m assuming you mean wizard. Each spell would be different. Poison spray is a cantrip. It’s going to depend on your DM if they’ll let you, basically take it twice. I might allow it, personally. It seems like you’re undercutting yourself by effectively taking the same cantrip twice, so it’s not like a big benefit.
For animal friendship, I don’t think wizards get access to that, so you’d have no way to have the spell with slots.
For suggestion, I’d say you can, if you memorize it like it was a normal spell. You have one use of it based on charisma based on race, and then the others based on casting it normally as a spell.
No, you are not immune to fear. It doesn’t say you are, so you are not. That line is more of a rp suggestion.
That's what I thought, was just trying to retain the spells for flavour more than an actual usage, but with a -1 for Charisma I don't think I would even bother putting them on the sheet
Also, VGtE says that the Yuan-ti are emotionless would that make them also immune to fear as it is an emotion?
Personally, I would define fear as much as an instinct as an emotion (you can use that line for your character if it comes up). But either way, no, yuan-ti are not immune to fear, since they don't have a trait that says so.
This is a matter of personal preference, but unless you are going for a linguist for roleplay reasons, I would take fey/shadow touched or even observant for the +1 INT.
I also recommend moving resilient up 1 or 2 ASIs (you might not even need more than 16 CON).
I also recommend moving resilient up 1 or 2 ASIs (you might not even need more than 16 CON).
I am disappointed... very disappointed ... I was really looking forward to playing with this build
This is supposed to be a Tank build, The Max Armour Class I can Get out of it is 24, and this includes ring of protection, and cloak of protection, I've thrown both of those away before now to free up attunement slots and still had an AC well higher than 24
This is only 3 Higher than a standard non magical fighter can reach without any magical items at all.
You would need every Con point you can get!
Sorry I am not continuing the build, the best thing an artificer can do is make stuff, give it away, then hide when combat approaches, because there is someone in the party that can use his stuff better than he can. Though by level 20 I would expect he would struggle to give it away :)
The only way I can see to make this build work, is to get hold of some +3 items from someone who can make them better than you, should be called the Artificer's Apprentice Class
I also recommend moving resilient up 1 or 2 ASIs (you might not even need more than 16 CON).
I am disappointed... very disappointed ... I was really looking forward to playing with this build
This is supposed to be a Tank build, The Max Armour Class I can Get out of it is 24, and this includes ring of protection, and cloak of protection, I've thrown both of those away before now to free up attunement slots and still had an AC well higher than 24
This is only 3 Higher than a standard non magical fighter can reach without any magical items at all.
You would need every Con point you can get!
Sorry I am not continuing the build, the best thing an artificer can do is make stuff, give it away, then hide when combat approaches, because there is someone in the party that can use his stuff better than he can. Though by level 20 I would expect he would struggle to give it away :)
The only way I can see to make this build work, is to get hold of some +3 items from someone who can make them better than you, should be called the Artificer's Apprentice Class
If you want more HP, I recommend the tough feat. That gives you 2 HP per level with 1 ASI. Now you can either take a different feat to further up your tankiness, or put CON to 18 and still have 1 more HP per level than if you had only done CON. And you have proficiency with saves, so you won't miss 1 or 2 points.
The only AC bonus a regular fighter has over armorer is defence fighting style. But the artificer can attune more AC boosting magic items (including some that require being a spellcaster) than a fighter, so more than makes up for it.
The AC boosting items you can infuse cap at +2, and are mostly +1 each, so magic items you find or craft can be better than your infusions. But you will still have more of them than anyone else...
On that note, +2 armor, +1 repulsion shield, +1 ring, +1 cloak. You should be able to get at least 25 AC with just your infusions. You also have access to mirror image making attacks less likely to hit you, and even if they do, you can get a ton of THP as a bonus action, and at level 20 can resist going down 6 times per long rest. And you can use blur to be even harder to hit.
Only a totem barbarian with max con and DEX is even close to as tanky.
And no mortal can make magic items better than an artificer. Just because you can only make a +2 shield before you've had a cup of coffee, doesn't mean you can't craft a +3 shield with more time. Ask your DM if you can craft magic items with your downtime, done. And even if you can't, you will still have the best AC in the party and finding a single +2 armor or shield or better will improve it by that much more.
In 10 hours the guy comes up with a cool idea and completely derides it. Haha.
People gotta start playing these things and stop pretending they’d know how it’d work at higher levels. A high-AC spellcaster is always valuable, especially when the DM finally plays smart monsters correctly (ie. actually targeting spellcasters instead of focus firing the raging Barbarian). I say stick with it and have a blast.
In 10 hours the guy comes up with a cool idea and completely derides it. Haha.
People gotta start playing these things and stop pretending they’d know how it’d work at higher levels. A high-AC spellcaster is always valuable, especially when the DM finally plays smart monsters correctly (ie. actually targeting spellcasters instead of focus firing the raging Barbarian). I say stick with it and have a blast.
That's all well and good to say, but you end up sat on magic items that others can make better use of.
The whole class is so limited, if you are playing a low magic game then the + armour goes to the tank, the chances of the artificer being the best tank is slim.
In high magic games he isn't powerful enough. just running the numbers, I can't see it being viable.
That's all well and good to say, but you end up sat on magic items that others can make better use of.
The whole class is so limited, if you are playing a low magic game then the + armour goes to the tank, the chances of the artificer being the best tank is slim.
In high magic games he isn't powerful enough. just running the numbers, I can't see it being viable.
Lets run those numbers again without magic items to see how you compare.
Fighter, 20 CON, plate and shield, defense fighting style, second wind: 21 AC, effectively 250 HP.
Barbarian bear totem, 24 CON, 20 DEX, shield, rage, reckless attack: effectively 18 AC (math for AC in spoiler, effectively 570 HP. Of course nothing can top that in terms of HP.
Artificer armorer, 20 CON, plate and shield, blur, mirror image, defensive field: effective AC 25.38 (math for AC in spoiler), effectively 323 HP
Calculating the effectiveness of dis/advantage requires knowing the hit modifier of the attack. I'm going to use +13 which gives a 50% hit chance against the barbarian when not reckless attacking.
Barbarian first: 24 base AC against +13 to hit with advantage is 75% which we plug into 20(1-%)+[hit mod] to find the effective AC with that hit chance of 18.
Now artificer: Plate and shield give 20 AC, with disadvantage a +13 to hit lands 51% of the time. That was the easy part.
Mirror image makes 75% of attacks miss, then 65%, then 50% with a 5% chance of missing the duplicate for each attack. So lets calculate your odds of even being the target of an attack out of 3 attacks... 1-(.75((.05×.75((.05×.75)+(.95×.65)))+(.95×.65((.05×.65)+(.95×.50)))))=74.65421875% (I'm pretty sure the math is right, but it was higher than I expected, if someone wants to double check and message me, go for it).
Now we just take your odds of the attack targeting you multiplied by the odds of the attack hitting you to get 38.0736516% chance of hit, which we plug into 20(1-%)+[hit mod] to find the effective AC with that hit chance of 25.38526969.
Final tankiness score: effective HP/hit%
Fighter: 384.6, barbarian: 760, Artificer: 848.4
Conclusion: the armorer is potentially even tankier than a bear totem barbarian without even taking into consideration higher bonuses to saves or bonus AC from magic items (which will only widen the gap further).
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You get 3 innate spells with the Yuan-ti race (Poison Spray, Animal friendship snakes only, Suggestion)
As innate spells they are cast using Charisma, which in this instance is a dump Stat (using Customised origins an 8 for a -1)
I appreciate they can't be used with intelligence using the innate casting rules, but can they be cast using Intelligence and spell slots?
Also, VGtE says that the Yuan-ti are emotionless would that make them also immune to fear as it is an emotion?
Dum Vivimus vivamus
If you take them as class spells for you casting class — I’m assuming you mean wizard. Each spell would be different. Poison spray is a cantrip. It’s going to depend on your DM if they’ll let you, basically take it twice. I might allow it, personally. It seems like you’re undercutting yourself by effectively taking the same cantrip twice, so it’s not like a big benefit.
For animal friendship, I don’t think wizards get access to that, so you’d have no way to have the spell with slots.
For suggestion, I’d say you can, if you memorize it like it was a normal spell. You have one use of it based on charisma based on race, and then the others based on casting it normally as a spell.
No, you are not immune to fear. It doesn’t say you are, so you are not. That line is more of a rp suggestion.
For Info purposes I am considering building a Yuan-ti Pureblood Artificer Armourer, Clan Crafter Background
Level 1 stats
Str 8 (-1), Dex 13 (1), Con 16 (3), Int 17 (3), Wis 12 (1), Cha 8 (-1)
Skills: Arcana, History, Insight, Investigation
Saving throws: Con, Int
Tools Thieves, Tinkers, Smiths, Leatherworkers and adding either Jewellers or glass worker at level 3
Languages: Common, Abysal, Draconic, Dwarven adding 3 more at level 4 by taking languages feat for an int increase of 1 to 18
as Yuan-ti have resistance to magical and poison on top of the artificers AC he should be quite hard to hit, but as I might need to use Resilient Feet to gain proficiency for Dex throws to help close a weakness to breath weapons etc, Dex modifier has been left as an odd number
My thought was
Also what extra languages should I take at level 4? Orc, Giant, Infernal?
Any suggestions would be very welcome :)
Dum Vivimus vivamus
That's what I thought, was just trying to retain the spells for flavour more than an actual usage, but with a -1 for Charisma I don't think I would even bother putting them on the sheet
Thanks for the confirmation, much appreciated
Dum Vivimus vivamus
Personally, I would define fear as much as an instinct as an emotion (you can use that line for your character if it comes up). But either way, no, yuan-ti are not immune to fear, since they don't have a trait that says so.
This is a matter of personal preference, but unless you are going for a linguist for roleplay reasons, I would take fey/shadow touched or even observant for the +1 INT.
I also recommend moving resilient up 1 or 2 ASIs (you might not even need more than 16 CON).
I am disappointed... very disappointed ... I was really looking forward to playing with this build
This is supposed to be a Tank build, The Max Armour Class I can Get out of it is 24, and this includes ring of protection, and cloak of protection, I've thrown both of those away before now to free up attunement slots and still had an AC well higher than 24
This is only 3 Higher than a standard non magical fighter can reach without any magical items at all.
You would need every Con point you can get!
Sorry I am not continuing the build, the best thing an artificer can do is make stuff, give it away, then hide when combat approaches, because there is someone in the party that can use his stuff better than he can. Though by level 20 I would expect he would struggle to give it away :)
The only way I can see to make this build work, is to get hold of some +3 items from someone who can make them better than you, should be called the Artificer's Apprentice Class
Dum Vivimus vivamus
If you want more HP, I recommend the tough feat. That gives you 2 HP per level with 1 ASI. Now you can either take a different feat to further up your tankiness, or put CON to 18 and still have 1 more HP per level than if you had only done CON. And you have proficiency with saves, so you won't miss 1 or 2 points.
The only AC bonus a regular fighter has over armorer is defence fighting style. But the artificer can attune more AC boosting magic items (including some that require being a spellcaster) than a fighter, so more than makes up for it.
The AC boosting items you can infuse cap at +2, and are mostly +1 each, so magic items you find or craft can be better than your infusions. But you will still have more of them than anyone else...
On that note, +2 armor, +1 repulsion shield, +1 ring, +1 cloak. You should be able to get at least 25 AC with just your infusions. You also have access to mirror image making attacks less likely to hit you, and even if they do, you can get a ton of THP as a bonus action, and at level 20 can resist going down 6 times per long rest. And you can use blur to be even harder to hit.
Only a totem barbarian with max con and DEX is even close to as tanky.
And no mortal can make magic items better than an artificer. Just because you can only make a +2 shield before you've had a cup of coffee, doesn't mean you can't craft a +3 shield with more time. Ask your DM if you can craft magic items with your downtime, done. And even if you can't, you will still have the best AC in the party and finding a single +2 armor or shield or better will improve it by that much more.
In 10 hours the guy comes up with a cool idea and completely derides it. Haha.
People gotta start playing these things and stop pretending they’d know how it’d work at higher levels. A high-AC spellcaster is always valuable, especially when the DM finally plays smart monsters correctly (ie. actually targeting spellcasters instead of focus firing the raging Barbarian).
I say stick with it and have a blast.
That's all well and good to say, but you end up sat on magic items that others can make better use of.
The whole class is so limited, if you are playing a low magic game then the + armour goes to the tank, the chances of the artificer being the best tank is slim.
In high magic games he isn't powerful enough. just running the numbers, I can't see it being viable.
Dum Vivimus vivamus
Lets run those numbers again without magic items to see how you compare.
Fighter, 20 CON, plate and shield, defense fighting style, second wind: 21 AC, effectively 250 HP.
Barbarian bear totem, 24 CON, 20 DEX, shield, rage, reckless attack: effectively 18 AC (math for AC in spoiler, effectively 570 HP. Of course nothing can top that in terms of HP.
Artificer armorer, 20 CON, plate and shield, blur, mirror image, defensive field: effective AC 25.38 (math for AC in spoiler), effectively 323 HP
Calculating the effectiveness of dis/advantage requires knowing the hit modifier of the attack. I'm going to use +13 which gives a 50% hit chance against the barbarian when not reckless attacking.
Barbarian first: 24 base AC against +13 to hit with advantage is 75% which we plug into 20(1-%)+[hit mod] to find the effective AC with that hit chance of 18.
Now artificer: Plate and shield give 20 AC, with disadvantage a +13 to hit lands 51% of the time. That was the easy part.
Mirror image makes 75% of attacks miss, then 65%, then 50% with a 5% chance of missing the duplicate for each attack. So lets calculate your odds of even being the target of an attack out of 3 attacks... 1-(.75((.05×.75((.05×.75)+(.95×.65)))+(.95×.65((.05×.65)+(.95×.50)))))=74.65421875% (I'm pretty sure the math is right, but it was higher than I expected, if someone wants to double check and message me, go for it).
Now we just take your odds of the attack targeting you multiplied by the odds of the attack hitting you to get 38.0736516% chance of hit, which we plug into 20(1-%)+[hit mod] to find the effective AC with that hit chance of 25.38526969.
Final tankiness score: effective HP/hit%
Fighter: 384.6, barbarian: 760, Artificer: 848.4
Conclusion: the armorer is potentially even tankier than a bear totem barbarian without even taking into consideration higher bonuses to saves or bonus AC from magic items (which will only widen the gap further).