Typically effects that transport you also qualify as movement even if they're not actually moving. For exemple, when a hockey player is traded we say it's moved to another team (staff movement) and some player have non-movement clause. These refers to reposition from one place to another, just like on a battlefield teleportation or planeshift does. I know its a bit off topic but its just to illustrate the complexity of what non-movement movement can actually mean.
Apart from falling and being pushed/pulled/shoved, another exemple of non-movement movement by entering a space without actually moving or movement would be say when a creature removes you from a bag of holding or a handy haversack, and effects that make you swap position with another creature, such as Bait & Switch.
Bait & Switch: When you're within 5 feet of a creature on your turn, you can expend one superiority die and switch places with that creature, provided you spend at least 5 feet of movement and the creature is willing and isn't incapacitated. This movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.
This is actually an example of non-move movement. Nice find! So, swapping locations, bodily, by spending movement to do so: is movement. That is conclusive with this.
I don't think this is actually a teleport effect though. Even though you swap places I suspect the narrative explanation is more mundane than that. It certainly doesn't call it teleportation. Too bad, that'd have cleared this all up one way or the other if it had.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
This is actually an example of non-move movement. Nice find! So, swapping locations, bodily, by spending movement to do so: is movement. That is conclusive with this.
The creature the fighter swap position with moves without spending movement though.
I'm sorry, I'm confused Ravnodaus. Are you saying that Instinctive Pounce or most of other features that Chicken_Champ described actually use your speed? When you take you bonus action to rage and move up to half your speed, are you then left with only the remaining half to use as your move on your turn?
That is certainly nonsensical. What is the point of the feature then?
So, thinking more on this i think it might do good to simply revisit what D&D tells us a teleport even is.
What does Teleport do:
You and your group (or the target object) appear where you want to.
So the key, functional word for teleporting is "appearing".
Not moving.
Curiously, if you search the rules for the word "appear" you get it used a few time casually in reference to where some rules might "appear" elsewhere in the books and etc. But then it starts popping up in spells all over the place.
A standout example is Blink.
On a roll of 11 or higher, you vanish from your current plane of existence and appear in the Ethereal Plane (the spell fails and the casting is wasted if you were already on that plane). At the start of your next turn, and when the spell ends if you are on the Ethereal Plane, you return to an unoccupied space of your choice that you can see within 10 feet of the space you vanished from.
This contrast is especially telling. You never enter or leave anything, instead you're vanishing and appearing. Those are words describing visual manifestation, not movement!
To be sure:
You create up to four torch-sized lights within range, making them appear as torches, lanterns, or glowing orbs that hover in the air for the duration.
Appear also pops up in basically every summon spell too. It is basically synonymous with coming into existence or visually manifesting. That... isn't movement.
We can play a game of word/phrase substitution to really see this in effect. Let's pull up spells with the word 'appear in them and replace "appear" with either move/movement or with "coming into existence/visually manifesting" and just see which even makes any sense whatsoever.
Round One - Programmed Illusion
For example, you could create an illusion of yourself to move and warn off others who attempt to open a trapped door
For example, you could create an illusion of yourself tovisually manifestand warn off others who attempt to open a trapped door
For example, you could create an illusion of yourself to movement and warn off others who attempt to open a trapped door
For example, you could create an illusion of yourself to come into existence and warn off others who attempt to open a trapped door
Hmm. Okay okay, this spell effect was more visual than *poof* something real exists. Let's try a summon spell!
Round Two - Conjure Animals
You summon fey spirits that take the form of beasts and movein unoccupied spaces that you can see within range.
You summon fey spirits that take the form of beasts and visually manifest in unoccupied spaces that you can see within range.
You summon fey spirits that take the form of beasts and movement in unoccupied spaces that you can see within range.
You summon fey spirits that take the form of beasts and come into existence in unoccupied spaces that you can see within range.
Seems pretty conclusive to me. Do we need a round three?
Teleporting causes you to vanish from your space and appear in a new space. No movement happens.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'm sorry, I'm confused Ravnodaus. Are you saying that Instinctive Pounce or most of other features that Chicken_Champ described actually use your speed? When you take you bonus action to rage and move up to half your speed, are you then left with only the remaining half to use as your move on your turn?
That is certainly nonsensical. What is the point of the feature then?
No, I'm not saying that at all.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
But you are in fact conflating movement using your speed with any other movement throughout this monstrosity of a thread. That is most of the problem everyone else has with your interpretation.
Your argument is that teleportation doesn't use the word movement so it doesn't count as entering? I will point out that nothing in English or the rules requires entering an area to use the verb move either. If that's your argument, you are necessarily wrong because that is not how an average reader would be required to interpret that.
Your argument is that teleportation doesn't use the word movement so it doesn't count as entering? I will point out that nothing in English or the rules requires entering an area to use the verb move either. If that's your argument, you are necessarily wrong because that is not how an average reader would be required to interpret that.
If something appears within an area it didn't enter that area it simply started to exist within that area. Just so, when something vanishes from an area it hasn't left that area it simply stopped existing within the area.
Unless yall argue that Blink causes you to repeatedly suffer Opportunity Attacks? If that is your stance it's a wild one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
But you are in fact conflating movement using your speed with any other movement throughout this monstrosity of a thread. That is most of the problem everyone else has with your interpretation.
Movement is movement, there isn't some other kind of movement that isn't movement. Movement (using your speed) IS movement. I'm not conflating them, they're actually the same thing. You're running in circles here trying to argue that movement isn't... movement.
Anyway, tautologically true statements aside, See Blink Re: Opportunity Attacks. Unless you're arguing Blink triggers Opportunity Attacks, you'll need to accept that vanishing/appearing aren't leaving/entering and thus don't trigger opportunity attacks.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Your argument is that teleportation doesn't use the word movement so it doesn't count as entering? I will point out that nothing in English or the rules requires entering an area to use the verb move either. If that's your argument, you are necessarily wrong because that is not how an average reader would be required to interpret that.
Okay okay... ask yourself this question. If 'enters" isn't "moves into" then when someone with polearm master moves closer to an enemy they get an opportunity attack on the guy whenever it enters their reach. Right? yall arguing that "enters" doesn't require it's movement, just that it go from outside to inside the reach? Ok. Well, the polearm master just walks closer and then the target goes from outside to inside his reach. So...
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
But you are in fact conflating movement using your speed with any other movement throughout this monstrosity of a thread. That is most of the problem everyone else has with your interpretation.
Movement is movement, there isn't some other kind of movement that isn't movement. Movement (using your speed) IS movement. I'm not conflating them, they're actually the same thing. You're running in circles here trying to argue that movement isn't... movement.
Anyway, tautologically true statements aside, See Blink Re: Opportunity Attacks. Unless you're arguing Blink triggers Opportunity Attacks, you'll need to accept that vanishing/appearing aren't leaving/entering and thus don't trigger opportunity attacks.
See. you did it again here. Conflating speed and anything that causes you to move in the game. Again, otherwise you are arguing that Instinctive Pounce leaves you with less movement to use as your move. Or you don't understand your own position.
If something appears within an area it didn't enter that area it simply started to exist within that area. Just so, when something vanishes from an area it hasn't left that area it simply stopped existing within the area.
Unless yall argue that Blink causes you to repeatedly suffer Opportunity Attacks? If that is your stance it's a wild one.
Blink doesn't provoke when you move out of a space because you do so without using your movement, action, or reaction to do so. But when you Blink in and out, you are definitly entering or leaving a space/square you return to or vanish from.
But you are in fact conflating movement using your speed with any other movement throughout this monstrosity of a thread. That is most of the problem everyone else has with your interpretation.
Movement is movement, there isn't some other kind of movement that isn't movement. Movement (using your speed) IS movement. I'm not conflating them, they're actually the same thing. You're running in circles here trying to argue that movement isn't... movement.
Anyway, tautologically true statements aside, See Blink Re: Opportunity Attacks. Unless you're arguing Blink triggers Opportunity Attacks, you'll need to accept that vanishing/appearing aren't leaving/entering and thus don't trigger opportunity attacks.
See. you did it again here. Conflating speed and anything that causes you to move in the game. Again, otherwise you are arguing that Instinctive Pounce leaves you with less movement to use as your move. Or you don't understand your own position.
I'm not conflating anything. Stop throwing accusations and stick with the point.
Movement is movement. Speed is speed. A move is a move. These are all terms which reference something specific and they're not freely interchangeable.
Instinctive pounce allows you a move for half your speed in movement. This has no interaction with your normal move on your turn, why would it and why do you keep saying it should?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
We've been through this. Entering is a one way verb in 5E.
One way? One way...what? Movement?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
We've been through this. Entering is a one way verb in 5E. whirlwind shows that it has been the RAW since the phb was written.
Whirlwind though is a constant field effect. And seems badly written. If you move the whirlwind on to someone it seems they are unaffected, which makes zero sense given the rest of the spell description.
reread the spell. when you move the whirlwind onto a creature, the area enters the creatures space and they are immediately affected.
We've been through this. Entering is a one way verb in 5E.
One way? One way...what? Movement?
One way verb meaning "go into" as in not "become enveloped by." But again, I'm not here to fight about whether you are required to move to go into a place. You can homebrew all you like. I am here to point out again that OAs have special rules for teleports, but almost no other areas do. If you are arguing that whirlwind and OAs are the same regarding teleports, you are wrong.
If something appears within an area it didn't enter that area it simply started to exist within that area. Just so, when something vanishes from an area it hasn't left that area it simply stopped existing within the area.
Unless yall argue that Blink causes you to repeatedly suffer Opportunity Attacks? If that is your stance it's a wild one.
Blink doesn't provoke when you move out of a space because you do so without using your movement, action, or reaction to do so. But when you Blink in and out, you are difinitly entering/leaving a space/square you return or vanish from.
It still happens on your turn, by way of a spell you initiated. If that does not count on that basis, then neither does misty step, since you cast it on yourself too.
It doesn't matter it happen on your turn or someone else, OA only care if something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. Blinking is an action to cast, but blinking at the end of each of your turns is not done with any of it.
Mysty Step and other teleport don't provoke because it's teleportation, even if it uses movement, action, or reaction to do so.
Okay okay... ask yourself this question. If 'enters" isn't "moves into" then when someone with polearm master moves closer to an enemy they get an opportunity attack on the guy whenever it enters their reach. Right? yall arguing that "enters" doesn't require it's movement, just that it go from outside to inside the reach? Ok. Well, the polearm master just walks closer and then the target goes from outside to inside his reach. So...
You all granting this boon to fighters? I'm not.
That one is easy to field.
This time it isn't them misinterpreting but rather you. If someone teleports in to your space, it is by their action, so it is different than if you move such that they are now in your space. The movement you describe was by your action, so they did not enter your space so much as you moving them into your space (even if only by moving yourself).
Now I suppose you could argue that they did not enter so much as teleport entering them but frankly that is a problematic argument and weak at best.
Is it? Misty Step is a bonus action not an action. Also, why is that relevant?
Unless you mean agency?
If you mean agency, we... agree. I think only their moving into the space would qualify as "enters". That is their agency right there.
This is exactly what that example was supposed to reveal. You just need to go one step further and we'd be on the same page. The place things got derailed was at blue above.
They didn't move. You didn't move them. They didn't move, at all, when you walked closer to them. But now they're in your reach. Either they entered it or they didn't. Which, and why?
The answers to these questions in this thread have been wildly inconsistent.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This is actually an example of non-move movement. Nice find! So, swapping locations, bodily, by spending movement to do so: is movement. That is conclusive with this.
I don't think this is actually a teleport effect though. Even though you swap places I suspect the narrative explanation is more mundane than that. It certainly doesn't call it teleportation. Too bad, that'd have cleared this all up one way or the other if it had.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I don't think it's a teleport effect neither. If it doesn't say teleport, it's not!
The creature the fighter swap position with moves without spending movement though.
I'm sorry, I'm confused Ravnodaus. Are you saying that Instinctive Pounce or most of other features that Chicken_Champ described actually use your speed? When you take you bonus action to rage and move up to half your speed, are you then left with only the remaining half to use as your move on your turn?
That is certainly nonsensical. What is the point of the feature then?
So, thinking more on this i think it might do good to simply revisit what D&D tells us a teleport even is.
What does Teleport do:
So the key, functional word for teleporting is "appearing".
Not moving.
Curiously, if you search the rules for the word "appear" you get it used a few time casually in reference to where some rules might "appear" elsewhere in the books and etc. But then it starts popping up in spells all over the place.
A standout example is Blink.
This contrast is especially telling. You never enter or leave anything, instead you're vanishing and appearing. Those are words describing visual manifestation, not movement!
To be sure:
Appear also pops up in basically every summon spell too. It is basically synonymous with coming into existence or visually manifesting. That... isn't movement.
We can play a game of word/phrase substitution to really see this in effect. Let's pull up spells with the word 'appear in them and replace "appear" with either move/movement or with "coming into existence/visually manifesting" and just see which even makes any sense whatsoever.
Round One - Programmed Illusion
Hmm. Okay okay, this spell effect was more visual than *poof* something real exists. Let's try a summon spell!
Round Two - Conjure Animals
Seems pretty conclusive to me. Do we need a round three?
Teleporting causes you to vanish from your space and appear in a new space. No movement happens.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
No, I'm not saying that at all.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
But you are in fact conflating movement using your speed with any other movement throughout this monstrosity of a thread. That is most of the problem everyone else has with your interpretation.
Your argument is that teleportation doesn't use the word movement so it doesn't count as entering? I will point out that nothing in English or the rules requires entering an area to use the verb move either. If that's your argument, you are necessarily wrong because that is not how an average reader would be required to interpret that.
If something appears within an area it didn't enter that area it simply started to exist within that area. Just so, when something vanishes from an area it hasn't left that area it simply stopped existing within the area.
Unless yall argue that Blink causes you to repeatedly suffer Opportunity Attacks? If that is your stance it's a wild one.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Movement is movement, there isn't some other kind of movement that isn't movement. Movement (using your speed) IS movement. I'm not conflating them, they're actually the same thing. You're running in circles here trying to argue that movement isn't... movement.
Anyway, tautologically true statements aside, See Blink Re: Opportunity Attacks. Unless you're arguing Blink triggers Opportunity Attacks, you'll need to accept that vanishing/appearing aren't leaving/entering and thus don't trigger opportunity attacks.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Okay okay... ask yourself this question. If 'enters" isn't "moves into" then when someone with polearm master moves closer to an enemy they get an opportunity attack on the guy whenever it enters their reach. Right? yall arguing that "enters" doesn't require it's movement, just that it go from outside to inside the reach? Ok. Well, the polearm master just walks closer and then the target goes from outside to inside his reach. So...
You all granting this boon to fighters? I'm not.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
See. you did it again here. Conflating speed and anything that causes you to move in the game. Again, otherwise you are arguing that Instinctive Pounce leaves you with less movement to use as your move. Or you don't understand your own position.
Blink doesn't provoke when you move out of a space because you do so without using your movement, action, or reaction to do so. But when you Blink in and out, you are definitly entering or leaving a space/square you return to or vanish from.
We've been through this. Entering is a one way verb in 5E. whirlwind shows that it has been the RAW since the phb was written.
I'm not conflating anything. Stop throwing accusations and stick with the point.
Movement is movement. Speed is speed. A move is a move. These are all terms which reference something specific and they're not freely interchangeable.
Instinctive pounce allows you a move for half your speed in movement. This has no interaction with your normal move on your turn, why would it and why do you keep saying it should?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
One way? One way...what? Movement?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
reread the spell. when you move the whirlwind onto a creature, the area enters the creatures space and they are immediately affected.
One way verb meaning "go into" as in not "become enveloped by." But again, I'm not here to fight about whether you are required to move to go into a place. You can homebrew all you like. I am here to point out again that OAs have special rules for teleports, but almost no other areas do. If you are arguing that whirlwind and OAs are the same regarding teleports, you are wrong.
It doesn't matter it happen on your turn or someone else, OA only care if something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. Blinking is an action to cast, but blinking at the end of each of your turns is not done with any of it.
Mysty Step and other teleport don't provoke because it's teleportation, even if it uses movement, action, or reaction to do so.
Is it? Misty Step is a bonus action not an action. Also, why is that relevant?
Unless you mean agency?
If you mean agency, we... agree. I think only their moving into the space would qualify as "enters". That is their agency right there.
This is exactly what that example was supposed to reveal. You just need to go one step further and we'd be on the same page. The place things got derailed was at blue above.
They didn't move. You didn't move them. They didn't move, at all, when you walked closer to them. But now they're in your reach. Either they entered it or they didn't. Which, and why?
The answers to these questions in this thread have been wildly inconsistent.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.