If a spell can "move" when it changes locations, why isn't magical teleportation considered a "move" when it causes you to change locations as well?
That's easy! The spell says it can move. The text of the spell itself describe how to "move" it.
Teleport doesn't use the word "move" whatsoever.
Spell do what they say they do. Not what you want them to do. (Unless you homebrew!)
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If your argument is that “spells do what they tell you” then where does any spell tell you that teleporting in doesn’t count as entering? In fact, someone pointed out that magic circle says the opposite— it specifically calls out teleportation as one way a creature might try to enter it.
Kotath, one person here doesn’t seem to understand that OAs have a limitation on teleportation because they say they do and for no other reason. They seem to believe it is intrinsic to the system. You seem to have missed that part of the conversation.
We are not only discussing OA or PAM, but also the rest of the system and how those things are different.
2) Interpreting Polearm Mastery in the same light as the spells being cited as evidence makes little to no sense. Why would being really great with a pike make you always ready to strike someone teleporting 5' away from you, about more than half of the weapon length past the weapon's point?
That's not because teleportation isn't movement, it's because teleportation doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. You can also just disengage to bypass polearm mastery.
To recap, the topics in this thread seem to be at this point:
Is teleportation a type of movement, that triggers "when X moves..." type of effects and interactions?
To the extent that there may be ways to change your location without "movement," does entering/exiting reach for Opportunity Attacks require movement specifically?
To the extent that there may be ways to change your location without "movement," does entering/exiting areas of effect of spells require movement specifically?
If your argument is that “spells do what they tell you” then where does any spell tell you that teleporting in doesn’t count as entering? In fact, someone pointed out that magic circle says the opposite— it specifically calls out teleportation as one way a creature might try to enter it.
Yes, the text from the rulebooks that proves that you can enter using teleport is "The creature can’t willingly *enter* the cylinder by nonmagical means. If the creature tries to use *teleportation* or interplanar travel to do so, it must first succeed on a Charisma saving throw."
The ways to "enter" by magical means listed here are teleportation and interplanar travel (like shifting in or out of the ethereal plane).
If your argument is that “spells do what they tell you” then where does any spell tell you that teleporting in doesn’t count as entering? In fact, someone pointed out that magic circle says the opposite— it specifically calls out teleportation as one way a creature might try to enter it.
As for whether teleporting counts as "entering" a location, there's also this from the DMG about teleportation circles:
Teleportation Circles
The presence of permanent teleportation circles in major cities helps cement their important place in the economy of a fantasy world. Spells such as plane shift, teleport, and teleportation circle connect with these circles, which are found in temples, academies, the headquarters of arcane organizations, and prominent civic locations. However, since every teleportation circle is a possible means of entry into a city, they’re guarded by military and magical protection.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To recap, the topics in this thread seem to be at this point:
Is teleportation a type of movement, that triggers "when X moves..." type of effects and interactions?
To the extent that there may be ways to change your location without "movement," does entering/exiting reach for Opportunity Attacks require movement specifically?
To the extent that there may be ways to change your location without "movement," does entering/exiting areas of effect of spells require movement specifically?
Thanks for the recap. I had no intention of reading all 100 posts that popped up in 1 morning... Now my answers:
Yes, but actually No. Teleporting moves you, but does not use speed or movement in any way that other effects usually refer to (including OA).
Yes. Opportunity attacks require the target to (willingly) move using their action, bonus action, reaction, or normal movement.
No. The rules never define enter/exit, but common sense tells us you can't occupy a space you haven't entered and you continue to occupy a space until you exit it.
Now the tricky one.... is the special opportunity attack provided by Polearm Mastery 'on entering your reach' triggered by teleportation effects that land someone within the wielder's reach?
There's nothing tricky about that one, as has been said repeatedly. The rules for opportunity attacks are clear.
You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction.
It doesn't matter if it's a "special" opportunity attack or a boring old regular one. Teleporting = no OA.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
To recap, the topics in this thread seem to be at this point:
Is teleportation a type of movement, that triggers "when X moves..." type of effects and interactions?
To the extent that there may be ways to change your location without "movement," does entering/exiting reach for Opportunity Attacks require movement specifically?
To the extent that there may be ways to change your location without "movement," does entering/exiting areas of effect of spells require movement specifically?
Thanks for the recap. I had no intention of reading all 100 posts that popped up in 1 morning... Now my answers:
Yes, but actually No. Teleporting moves you, but does not use speed or movement in any way that other effects usually refer to (including OA).
Yes. Opportunity attacks require the target to (willingly) move using their action, bonus action, reaction, or normal movement.
No. The rules never define enter/exit, but common sense tells us you can't occupy a space you haven't entered and you continue to occupy a space until you exit it.
Now the tricky one.... is the special opportunity attack provided by Polearm Mastery 'on entering your reach' triggered by teleportation effects that land someone within the wielder's reach?
I say that the "teleport does not provoke OAs" rule has not been specifically changed, so is still followed. Same for being shoved into reach.
Thanks for the recap. I had no intention of reading all 100 posts that popped up in 1 morning... Now my answers:
Yes, but actually No. Teleporting moves you, but does not use speed or movement in any way that other effects usually refer to (including OA).
Yes. Opportunity attacks require the target to (willingly) move using their action, bonus action, reaction, or normal movement.
No. The rules never define enter/exit, but common sense tells us you can't occupy a space you haven't entered and you continue to occupy a space until you exit it.
I don't agree that it's useful to answer 2 and 3 differently, the definition of "enter/exit" (no matter whether we're talking about AOE, a reach, or any other misc. shape/area/whatever) should always be the same.
There are other specific rules in Opportunity Attacks which prevent them from being taken when you enter/exit reach using teleportation or movement that doesn't use an action, bonus action, reaction, or "your move," without needing to fundamentally redefine what it means to enter/exit reach in a way that would exclude being pushed, teleporting, etc.
To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you’re in.
Entering a square is actually defined. It requires having unused speed/movement.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Thanks for the recap. I had no intention of reading all 100 posts that popped up in 1 morning... Now my answers:
Yes, but actually No. Teleporting moves you, but does not use speed or movement in any way that other effects usually refer to (including OA).
Yes. Opportunity attacks require the target to (willingly) move using their action, bonus action, reaction, or normal movement.
No. The rules never define enter/exit, but common sense tells us you can't occupy a space you haven't entered and you continue to occupy a space until you exit it.
I don't agree that it's useful to answer 2 and 3 differently, the definition of "enter/exit" (no matter whether we're talking about AOE, a reach, or any other misc. shape/area/whatever) should always be the same.
There are other specific rules in Opportunity Attacks which prevent them from being taken when you enter/exit reach using teleportation or movement that doesn't use an action, bonus action, reaction, or "your move," without needing to fundamentally redefine what it means to enter/exit reach in a way that would exclude being pushed, teleporting, etc.
But the questions are different. Question 2 is "does OA specifically require you to 'move' when entering/exiting reach?" Question 3 is "do AOEs specifically require you to 'move' when entering/exiting?"
The answer to question 2 is "yes, teleportation and forced movement (which is not specifically your 'movement' as asked by the question) don't trigger AOs." The answer to question 3 is "no, teleportation and forced movement (which is not specifically you 'movement' as asked by the question) will also trigger AOEs."
To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you’re in.
Entering a square is actually defined. It requires having unused speed/movement.
Thanks for disingenuously quoting variant rules out of context. This text is not defining entering but telling you how you can use your movement in context of using a grid for play. But If you are to take the next step in following this trainwreck of thought, that means If I use my entire speed during my turn, I’m effectively unable to be forced out of my current square by any means. That is not a tenable result.
To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you’re in.
Entering a square is actually defined. It requires having unused speed/movement.
That doesn't define entering, only sets the requirements for entering a square while using movement on a grid and assumes we already know what "entering a square" means.
To recap, the topics in this thread seem to be at this point:
Is teleportation a type of movement, that triggers "when X moves..." type of effects and interactions?
To the extent that there may be ways to change your location without "movement," does entering/exiting reach for Opportunity Attacks require movement specifically?
To the extent that there may be ways to change your location without "movement," does entering/exiting areas of effect of spells require movement specifically?
1) It is a type of moving, in the same way that falling, or being pulled by a spell, or etc is a type of moving, but it is not "movement" (as it relates to a creatures speed).
2) It requires movement that is 1) not teleportation (or teleportation like), and 2) that uses your "movement", action, reaction, or bonus action on a turn (not necessarily yours) to do. If there is a way to change location that meets both of those, but isn't "movement", it would trigger an OA. I note that willingness is moot in this regard, so if dissonant whispers forced you to move using your reaction, that's unwilling, but it does provoke OAs because it used your reaction. Falling, on the other hand, does not use one of those 4, so it doesn't.
3) No, unless said spell effect explicitly said otherwise. If you were outside a volume and now you are inside, you have entered. if you were inside a volume and now you are outside, you have exited. The means by which you do so don't matter unless the spell says they do. So willing movement, falling, teleportation, and unwilling movement like the above reaction to dissonant whispers would all trigger the AoE if you went from outside it to inside it as a result
To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you’re in.
Entering a square is actually defined. It requires having unused speed/movement.
Only if you are using movement to enter the square. You can enter a square without using movement, since there are in-game ways to move that aren't movement.
I apologize, I see that my recap post wasn't quite clear enough.
"Entering" or "Exiting" an area, what Rav has been arguing is that that entering/exiting requires movement to accomplish, not just changing locations by means which arguably might not be called movement (such as teleportation). Whether we are talking about entering/exiting a character's REACH, or an AOE, or any other area we may describe... the question is, is entering/exiting that area a reference to whether you come into it/leave it, or whether you specifically come into it/leave it with something called "movement".
I believe that most of us are on the same page that you enter/exit an area when your body comes into it/leave it, not just when you come into it/leave it specifically using something we recognize as movement. Also recognizing that when the area comes to/leaves you instead, that that isn't you entering/exiting the area.
The question over whether an Opportunity Attack succesfully triggers, that's a seperate step, and clearly answered by pointing to the rule that teleportation doesn't trigger, forced movements that don't use your action/bonus action/reaction don't trigger, etc.... what I'm trying to make clear is, BEFORE THAT STEP, I want to make clear that fundamentally, entering/exiting ANYTHING that we may be talking about is satisfied by coming into it/leaving it by any means, not just with something that is recognized as "movement." For example, if you are SUMMONED into an area (whether that area is a Reach, an AOE, whathaveyou), or CREATED there, you would also "enter" it, yes? You would not have triggered an OA, but you would agree that you have at least ENTERED that reach, yes?
Deep dive time, a full review of Movement and Position because we as a class need a good review of what is being discussed with actual rules text not preconceived half-remember rulings you've been homebrewing with for years or whatever. Skip to TLDR at the bottom if you want, I don't expect everyone to go through it all.
Movement and Position
In combat, characters and monsters are in constant motion, often using movement and position to gain the upper hand.
On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed. You can use as much or as little of your speed as you like on your turn, following the rules here.
Your movement can include jumping, climbing, and swimming. These different modes of movement can be combined with walking, or they can constitute your entire move. However you're moving, you deduct the distance of each part of your move from your speed until it is used up or until you are done moving.
Time to revisit basics. I'm all for back and forth, but let's just look at the text. This, above, is all about Movement and Position. What can we learn from this, the actual game rules?
On your turn you can move. This move 'uses' your speed to cause movement.
Beside normal walking, your movement can include jumping, climbing, and swimming.
However you move. You deduct the distance. From your speed. Until it is used up.
Notably missing fly here, and teleport (Magical effects come later, we'll get there). But we have established some very fundamental ground rules for how moves, movement, and speed interact with each other here. You can move, and spend your speed, to cause movement. We have 100% established that: movement uses up speed.
Let's keep going, keeping in mind what we've learned so far.
Breaking Up Your Move
You can break up your movement on your turn, using some of your speed before and after your action. For example, if you have a speed of 30 feet, you can move 10 feet, take your action, and then move 20 feet.
Here we reiterate that movement uses up our speed. But! If we have some left we can break it up throughout our turn. Useful. But once we have used up our speed... no more movement!
Moving Between Attacks
If you take an action that includes more than one weapon attack, you can break up your movement even further by moving between those attacks. For example, a fighter who can make two attacks with the Extra Attack feature and who has a speed of 25 feet could move 10 feet, make an attack, move 15 feet, and then attack again.
Nothin new here other than being able to spend and use up our speed in smaller increments and between even attacks within the same action. Good to know but not relevant here.
Using Different Speeds
If you have more than one speed, such as your walking speed and a flying speed, you can switch back and forth between your speeds during your move. Whenever you switch, subtract the distance you've already moved from the new speed. The result determines how much farther you can move. If the result is 0 or less, you can't use the new speed during the current move.
For example, if you have a speed of 30 and a flying speed of 60 because a wizard cast the fly spell on you, you could fly 20 feet, then walk 10 feet, and then leap into the air to fly 30 feet more.
Oh boy there is a lot to unpack here!
We can switch between types of movement if we have more than one speed.
The distance we have travelled so far this turn is subtracted from our speed when we switch between types of movement.
If that result is a 0 or less remaining, we can't use that type of movement during our current move. But we could still use another type of movement if it still had speed remaining.
I don't know about you guys but the terms seem to be following a very concise structured pattern here. Types of movement have speeds that you sped on your move. Oh and we've covered flying! Wait...were is teleport? Still missing, and, oh, hey, teleport doesn't have a speed... that is starting to feel problematic for how all of these rules say movements have speeds that you spend to move with.
If teleportation is a type of movement we'd need to spend some teleportation speed to use it... uh oh. That doesn't exist! Maybe if we continue on?
Difficult Terrain
Combat rarely takes place in bare rooms or on featureless plains. Boulder-strewn caverns, briar-choked forests, treacherous staircases--the setting of a typical fight contains difficult terrain.
Every foot of movement in difficult terrain costs 1 extra foot. This rule is true even if multiple things in a space count as difficult terrain.
Low furniture, rubble, undergrowth, steep stairs, snow, and shallow bogs are examples of difficult terrain. The space of another creature, whether hostile or not, also counts as difficult terrain.
Not a whole lot here other than how movement speed gets used up faster through difficult terrain. Really just driving that point home that movement speed is spent to move. Moving on.
Being Prone
Combatants often find themselves lying on the ground, either because they are knocked down or because they throw themselves down. In the game, they are prone. You can drop prone without using any of your speed. Standing up takes more effort; doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet of movement to stand up. You can't stand up if you don't have enough movement left or if your speed is 0.
To move while prone, you must crawl or use magic such as teleportation. Every foot of movement while crawling costs 1 extra foot. Crawling 1 foot in difficult terrain, therefore, costs 3 feet of movement.
Oh boy! Another good section. We have our very first reference to teleportation! But lets not get ahead of ourselves, there is some other juicy bits here too.
Fist off, who noticed that we've swapped words? We are now spending movement, while further up in the rules we were spending speed. Speed and movement are interchangeable within the rules. That's pretty huge
To move, we deduct the distance from our speed until it is used up... and/or we spend feet of movement up to an amount equal to our movement speed. Interchangeable. mechanically the same thing.
We can drop to prone... without using movement. The fact dropping prone is even here might suggest it is movement, but, the fact it specifically doesn't use movement says otherwise.
We can stand up from prone and this does use movement. So standing up is for sure a type of movement.
To move while prone we must crawl. Crawling uses up extra movement.
Our only alternative to crawling, while prone (or standing) is magic. The example type of magic given that might work is teleportation. Note it doesn't actually call teleportation movement, or even a move, or even for sure say it would actually guarantee you could move with it. It is a pretty open statement saying you're basically screwed unless you have some magic that somehow otherwise lets you move when you shouldn't normally be capable of doing so.
Notably, Teleportation doesn't use up any movement.
So, we learn a few things here. Speed and Movement are used interchangeably. Every type of movement has a speed, or lists an additional cost to your speed. Even guest appearances in this section as an example of a possible "magic" that could help you while prone... it still isn't a type of movement. It doesn't have a speed. You cannot use up your teleportation speed to move. In fact, I don't think it is even possible to use your move to teleport with any ability in the game.
But hey, there is still more movement rules and we might as well do a full refresher while we're this deep into it. Next up:
INTERACTING WITH OBJECTS AROUND YOU
Here are a few examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action:
draw or sheathe a sword
open or close a door
withdraw a potion from your backpack
pick up a dropped axe
take a bauble from a table
remove a ring from your finger
stuff some food into your mouth
plant a banner in the ground
fish a few coins from your belt pouch
drink all the ale in a flagon
throw a lever or a switch
pull a torch from a sconce
take a book from a shelf you can reach
extinguish a small flame
don a mask
pull the hood of your cloak up and over your head
put your ear to a door
kick a small stone
turn a key in a lock
tap the floor with a 10-foot pole
hand an item to another character
You can do misc stuff while doing actions and/or movement. Note that none of these things are themselves movement, or action, instead done in tandem with them. Moving on:
Moving Around Other Creatures
You can move through a nonhostile creature's space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature's space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature's space is difficult terrain for you.
Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can't willingly end your move in its space.
If you leave a hostile creature's reach during your move, you provoke an opportunity attack, as explained later in the section.
A few things to unpack here for sure.
You can move through other creature's spaces. If they're hostile there are some restrictions to that.
Can't end movement in another creature's space. Irrelevant here, but good to know.
Opportunity Attack time! Okay: If you "leave" their "reach" during your "move" you provoke the OA. More to follow. Okay!
This sets up more to follow, so we'll be referencing back to this section later. Onward!
Flying Movement
Flying creatures enjoy many benefits of mobility, but they must also deal with the danger of falling. If a flying creature is knocked prone, has its speed reduced to 0, or is otherwise deprived of the ability to move, the creature falls, unless it has the ability to hover or it is being held aloft by magic, such as by the fly spell.
Not much here for us. Good info about flying as a type of movement, special hazards. A notable instance of the phrase "by magic such as" again. Seems a suggestive example, not a restrictive rule. Moving on:
Creature Size
Each creature takes up a different amount of space. The Size Categories table shows how much space a creature of a particular size controls in combat. Objects sometimes use the same size categories.
Nada, onward:
Space
A creature's space is the area in feet that it effectively controls in combat, not an expression of its physical dimensions. A typical Medium creature isn't 5 feet wide, for example, but it does control a space that wide. If a Medium hobgoblin stands in a 5‐foot-wide doorway, other creatures can't get through unless the hobgoblin lets them.
A creature's space also reflects the area it needs to fight effectively. For that reason, there's a limit to the number of creatures that can surround another creature in combat. Assuming Medium combatants, eight creatures can fit in a 5-foot radius around another one.
Because larger creatures take up more space, fewer of them can surround a creature. If four Large creatures crowd around a Medium or smaller one, there's little room for anyone else. In contrast, as many as twenty Medium creatures can surround a Gargantuan one.
"Through", again. But not in any interesting way. Standard stuff, moving on.
Squeezing into a Smaller Space
A creature can squeeze through a space that is large enough for a creature one size smaller than it. Thus, a Large creature can squeeze through a passage that's only 5 feet wide. While squeezing through a space, a creature must spend 1 extra foot for every foot it moves there, and it has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws. Attack rolls against the creature have advantage while it's in the smaller space.
Okay, here is some new info for movements. We have a new one: Squeezing. Or, rather, is a modification on other types, really. In any case, spending feet again to move. I think its funny that at this point in the section it isn't even any longer trying. It doesn't even say what that extra foot is of. I get why, how tedious would it be to go through the entire thing and verify every word was written with technical precision? I certainly wouldn't know, I'd never scroll through all that text with a fine tooth comb analyzing its full technical ramification. Not this guy.
Jokes aside...we're almost done with the entire section on Movement and Position. Only one last bit to look at and, no spoilers, but, its a good one!
VARIANT: PLAYING ON A GRID
If you play out a combat using a square grid and miniatures or other tokens, follow these rules.
Each square on the grid represents 5 feet.
Rather than moving foot by foot, move square by square on the grid. This means you use your speed in 5-foot segments. This is particularly easy if you translate your speed into squares by dividing the speed by 5. For example, a speed of 30 feet translates into a speed of 6 squares.
If you use a grid often, consider writing your speed in squares on your character sheet.
To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you’re in. (The rule for diagonal movement sacrifices realism for the sake of smooth play. The Dungeon Master’s Guide provides guidance on using a more realistic approach.)
If a square costs extra movement, as a square of difficult terrain does, you must have enough movement left to pay for entering it. For example, you must have at least 2 squares of movement left to enter a square of difficult terrain.
Diagonal movement can’t cross the corner of a wall, large tree, or other terrain feature that fills its space.
To determine the range on a grid between two things—whether creatures or objects—start counting squares from a square adjacent to one of them and stop counting in the space of the other one. Count by the shortest route.
Well there it is.
Entering a square requires you have movement left, and it must be enough to pay for entering it to do so. Black and white. Plain as day.
Now... we have some dangling questions still from earlier not yet answered so from here we're going to skip around a bit. We need to know about Opportunity attacks and reach, still, after all. So moving on from the now 100% covered Movement and Position section.
What did we learn overall?
You can move on your turn by spending speed of whatever movement type you have available to you.
Spending speed and spending movement are essentially interchangeable. Either way you phrase it, you spend them in feet during a move.
Some conditions or situations cause you to spend more movement to move.
Dropping prone likely isn't movement but standing up probably is. They both, sorta, have a listed movement cost and are done on your move.
Teleportation doesn't have a speed, nor is done on your move. It isn't ever listed as a movement type. Though you can do it while prone I guess.
To "Enter a square" you need to have enough movement left to pay to move there. So, "Entering a square" requires movement.
Okay, on to OAs:
Opportunity Attacks
In a fight, everyone is constantly watching for a chance to strike an enemy who is fleeing or passing by. Such a strike is called an opportunity attack.
You can make an opportunity attack when a hostile creature that you can see moves out of your reach. To make the opportunity attack, you use your reaction to make one melee attack against the provoking creature. The attack occurs right before the creature leaves your reach.
You can avoid provoking an opportunity attack by taking the Disengage action. You also don't provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when someone or something moves you without using your movement, action, or reaction. For example, you don't provoke an opportunity attack if an explosion hurls you out of a foe's reach or if gravity causes you to fall past an enemy.
So, by default, OAs require the target to move. Specifically to move out of/leave reach. But, specifically to move. We can avoid these attacks in a couple ways:
Disengage action.
When you teleport, full stop. (The answer to this entire thread's OP)
When something else moves you, ie not your move, but only if it didn't use your movement, action, or reaction. Examples: Explosions and Gravity.
Seems pretty straightforward. The only way to, by default, provoke an Opportunity Attack is to move, using your own movement, not teleporting, not using the disengage action. Simply moving out of someone's reach. So if you spend movement to move, and leave their reach, OA. Check.
Finally, the Polearm Mastery feat text in question that kicked off this whole thread:
While you are wielding a glaive, halberd, pike, or quarterstaff, other creatures provoke an opportunity attack from you when they enter your reach.
Okay, we know Entering means spending movement to enter a square. And we know this PAM feat is a exception to the normal OA rules for provoking of moving out of reach and is instead for entering reach. We know that teleporting isn't a movement type, nor does it have a speed, nor can it be spent to enter a square. Teleporting also simply cannot provoke because specifically stated in rules directly. So not only is it not 'entering" the reach it can't provoke even if it did.
This was fun. Deep dives through a whole section can be helpful. It is good to see that my rulings are entirely and completely consistent with how the rules of this section of the game is written.
TLDR: We know conclusively, for a fact, based on the text of the rules themselves:
Teleportation isn't movement, it has no speed, and can't be done with a move.
Entering a space requires moving into it, specifically by spending movement.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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That's easy! The spell says it can move. The text of the spell itself describe how to "move" it.
Teleport doesn't use the word "move" whatsoever.
Spell do what they say they do. Not what you want them to do. (Unless you homebrew!)
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
If your argument is that “spells do what they tell you” then where does any spell tell you that teleporting in doesn’t count as entering? In fact, someone pointed out that magic circle says the opposite— it specifically calls out teleportation as one way a creature might try to enter it.
Kotath, one person here doesn’t seem to understand that OAs have a limitation on teleportation because they say they do and for no other reason. They seem to believe it is intrinsic to the system. You seem to have missed that part of the conversation.
We are not only discussing OA or PAM, but also the rest of the system and how those things are different.
That's not because teleportation isn't movement, it's because teleportation doesn't provoke opportunity attacks. You can also just disengage to bypass polearm mastery.
To recap, the topics in this thread seem to be at this point:
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Yes, the text from the rulebooks that proves that you can enter using teleport is "The creature can’t willingly *enter* the cylinder by nonmagical means. If the creature tries to use *teleportation* or interplanar travel to do so, it must first succeed on a Charisma saving throw."
The ways to "enter" by magical means listed here are teleportation and interplanar travel (like shifting in or out of the ethereal plane).
As for whether teleporting counts as "entering" a location, there's also this from the DMG about teleportation circles:
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Thanks for the recap. I had no intention of reading all 100 posts that popped up in 1 morning... Now my answers:
There's nothing tricky about that one, as has been said repeatedly. The rules for opportunity attacks are clear.
It doesn't matter if it's a "special" opportunity attack or a boring old regular one. Teleporting = no OA.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I say that the "teleport does not provoke OAs" rule has not been specifically changed, so is still followed. Same for being shoved into reach.
I don't agree that it's useful to answer 2 and 3 differently, the definition of "enter/exit" (no matter whether we're talking about AOE, a reach, or any other misc. shape/area/whatever) should always be the same.
There are other specific rules in Opportunity Attacks which prevent them from being taken when you enter/exit reach using teleportation or movement that doesn't use an action, bonus action, reaction, or "your move," without needing to fundamentally redefine what it means to enter/exit reach in a way that would exclude being pushed, teleporting, etc.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I think (I don’t want to speak for DxJxC) that the answers of 2 and 3 may be different and it is because of the OA rules that they are.
Entering a square is actually defined. It requires having unused speed/movement.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
But the questions are different. Question 2 is "does OA specifically require you to 'move' when entering/exiting reach?" Question 3 is "do AOEs specifically require you to 'move' when entering/exiting?"
The answer to question 2 is "yes, teleportation and forced movement (which is not specifically your 'movement' as asked by the question) don't trigger AOs." The answer to question 3 is "no, teleportation and forced movement (which is not specifically you 'movement' as asked by the question) will also trigger AOEs."
2 different questions, 2 different answers.
Thanks for disingenuously quoting variant rules out of context. This text is not defining entering but telling you how you can use your movement in context of using a grid for play. But If you are to take the next step in following this trainwreck of thought, that means If I use my entire speed during my turn, I’m effectively unable to be forced out of my current square by any means. That is not a tenable result.
That doesn't define entering, only sets the requirements for entering a square while using movement on a grid and assumes we already know what "entering a square" means.
1) It is a type of moving, in the same way that falling, or being pulled by a spell, or etc is a type of moving, but it is not "movement" (as it relates to a creatures speed).
2) It requires movement that is 1) not teleportation (or teleportation like), and 2) that uses your "movement", action, reaction, or bonus action on a turn (not necessarily yours) to do. If there is a way to change location that meets both of those, but isn't "movement", it would trigger an OA. I note that willingness is moot in this regard, so if dissonant whispers forced you to move using your reaction, that's unwilling, but it does provoke OAs because it used your reaction. Falling, on the other hand, does not use one of those 4, so it doesn't.
3) No, unless said spell effect explicitly said otherwise. If you were outside a volume and now you are inside, you have entered. if you were inside a volume and now you are outside, you have exited. The means by which you do so don't matter unless the spell says they do. So willing movement, falling, teleportation, and unwilling movement like the above reaction to dissonant whispers would all trigger the AoE if you went from outside it to inside it as a result
Only if you are using movement to enter the square. You can enter a square without using movement, since there are in-game ways to move that aren't movement.
I apologize, I see that my recap post wasn't quite clear enough.
"Entering" or "Exiting" an area, what Rav has been arguing is that that entering/exiting requires movement to accomplish, not just changing locations by means which arguably might not be called movement (such as teleportation). Whether we are talking about entering/exiting a character's REACH, or an AOE, or any other area we may describe... the question is, is entering/exiting that area a reference to whether you come into it/leave it, or whether you specifically come into it/leave it with something called "movement".
I believe that most of us are on the same page that you enter/exit an area when your body comes into it/leave it, not just when you come into it/leave it specifically using something we recognize as movement. Also recognizing that when the area comes to/leaves you instead, that that isn't you entering/exiting the area.
The question over whether an Opportunity Attack succesfully triggers, that's a seperate step, and clearly answered by pointing to the rule that teleportation doesn't trigger, forced movements that don't use your action/bonus action/reaction don't trigger, etc.... what I'm trying to make clear is, BEFORE THAT STEP, I want to make clear that fundamentally, entering/exiting ANYTHING that we may be talking about is satisfied by coming into it/leaving it by any means, not just with something that is recognized as "movement." For example, if you are SUMMONED into an area (whether that area is a Reach, an AOE, whathaveyou), or CREATED there, you would also "enter" it, yes? You would not have triggered an OA, but you would agree that you have at least ENTERED that reach, yes?
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Deep dive time, a full review of Movement and Position because we as a class need a good review of what is being discussed with actual rules text not preconceived half-remember rulings you've been homebrewing with for years or whatever. Skip to TLDR at the bottom if you want, I don't expect everyone to go through it all.
Time to revisit basics. I'm all for back and forth, but let's just look at the text. This, above, is all about Movement and Position. What can we learn from this, the actual game rules?
Notably missing fly here, and teleport (Magical effects come later, we'll get there). But we have established some very fundamental ground rules for how moves, movement, and speed interact with each other here. You can move, and spend your speed, to cause movement. We have 100% established that: movement uses up speed.
Let's keep going, keeping in mind what we've learned so far.
Here we reiterate that movement uses up our speed. But! If we have some left we can break it up throughout our turn. Useful. But once we have used up our speed... no more movement!
Nothin new here other than being able to spend and use up our speed in smaller increments and between even attacks within the same action. Good to know but not relevant here.
Oh boy there is a lot to unpack here!
I don't know about you guys but the terms seem to be following a very concise structured pattern here. Types of movement have speeds that you sped on your move. Oh and we've covered flying! Wait...were is teleport? Still missing, and, oh, hey, teleport doesn't have a speed... that is starting to feel problematic for how all of these rules say movements have speeds that you spend to move with.
If teleportation is a type of movement we'd need to spend some teleportation speed to use it... uh oh. That doesn't exist! Maybe if we continue on?
Not a whole lot here other than how movement speed gets used up faster through difficult terrain. Really just driving that point home that movement speed is spent to move. Moving on.
Oh boy! Another good section. We have our very first reference to teleportation! But lets not get ahead of ourselves, there is some other juicy bits here too.
So, we learn a few things here. Speed and Movement are used interchangeably. Every type of movement has a speed, or lists an additional cost to your speed. Even guest appearances in this section as an example of a possible "magic" that could help you while prone... it still isn't a type of movement. It doesn't have a speed. You cannot use up your teleportation speed to move. In fact, I don't think it is even possible to use your move to teleport with any ability in the game.
But hey, there is still more movement rules and we might as well do a full refresher while we're this deep into it. Next up:
You can do misc stuff while doing actions and/or movement. Note that none of these things are themselves movement, or action, instead done in tandem with them. Moving on:
A few things to unpack here for sure.
This sets up more to follow, so we'll be referencing back to this section later. Onward!
Not much here for us. Good info about flying as a type of movement, special hazards. A notable instance of the phrase "by magic such as" again. Seems a suggestive example, not a restrictive rule. Moving on:
Nada, onward:
"Through", again. But not in any interesting way. Standard stuff, moving on.
Okay, here is some new info for movements. We have a new one: Squeezing. Or, rather, is a modification on other types, really. In any case, spending feet again to move. I think its funny that at this point in the section it isn't even any longer trying. It doesn't even say what that extra foot is of. I get why, how tedious would it be to go through the entire thing and verify every word was written with technical precision? I certainly wouldn't know, I'd never scroll through all that text with a fine tooth comb analyzing its full technical ramification. Not this guy.
Jokes aside...we're almost done with the entire section on Movement and Position. Only one last bit to look at and, no spoilers, but, its a good one!
Well there it is.
Entering a square requires you have movement left, and it must be enough to pay for entering it to do so. Black and white. Plain as day.
Now... we have some dangling questions still from earlier not yet answered so from here we're going to skip around a bit. We need to know about Opportunity attacks and reach, still, after all. So moving on from the now 100% covered Movement and Position section.
What did we learn overall?
Okay, on to OAs:
So, by default, OAs require the target to move. Specifically to move out of/leave reach. But, specifically to move. We can avoid these attacks in a couple ways:
Seems pretty straightforward. The only way to, by default, provoke an Opportunity Attack is to move, using your own movement, not teleporting, not using the disengage action. Simply moving out of someone's reach. So if you spend movement to move, and leave their reach, OA. Check.
Finally, the Polearm Mastery feat text in question that kicked off this whole thread:
Okay, we know Entering means spending movement to enter a square. And we know this PAM feat is a exception to the normal OA rules for provoking of moving out of reach and is instead for entering reach. We know that teleporting isn't a movement type, nor does it have a speed, nor can it be spent to enter a square. Teleporting also simply cannot provoke because specifically stated in rules directly. So not only is it not 'entering" the reach it can't provoke even if it did.
This was fun. Deep dives through a whole section can be helpful. It is good to see that my rulings are entirely and completely consistent with how the rules of this section of the game is written.
TLDR: We know conclusively, for a fact, based on the text of the rules themselves:
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.