To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you’re in.
Entering a square is actually defined. It requires having unused speed/movement.
Only if you are using movement to enter the square. You can enter a square without using movement, since there are in-game ways to move that aren't movement.
Can you quote something that specifically says you "enter" a square that isn't movement? I'm sure if there is a specific exception to the rule listed above then it would of course be valid. You are claiming to know one? Whatever it is, I'm sure if it specifically says it causes you to enter a square, in some non-movement way... then yeah, it would trigger on-enter stuff. Teleport for sure doesn't say that. But maybe something else you are thinking of does?
I mean, otherwise you're just straight up disregarding the rule here that "you must have at least 1 square of movement left" without an exception? It says "must" that's not malleable to whim. You'd need an exception that says you could enter without needing remaining movement, and without paying that movement to do so. Specifically.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You haven’t answered any of the points against your argument, you’ve just reiterated your incorrect position from the outset. That adds nothing. We’ve already shown you in black and white how you are wrong on all of the conclusions you drew from these rules.
Again, this isn’t engaging in the discussion, so it doesn’t really belong on this forum. It is at the mildest, bad argument.
TLDR: We know conclusively, for a fact, based on the text of the rules themselves:
Teleportation isn't movement, it has no speed, and can't be done with a move.
Entering a space requires moving into it, specifically by spending movement.
If you can't enter a space except by using movement, then you can't teleport, fall, or be pushed. Since you can only occupy a space by entering it (or being born there).
There is also the fact that your only definition for "entering a square" requires you to be playing on a grid. So if you aren't playing on a grid, according to the assertions of your argument, you can't enter or exit a space so never trigger OAs or AOEs.
To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you’re in.
Entering a square is actually defined. It requires having unused speed/movement.
Only if you are using movement to enter the square. You can enter a square without using movement, since there are in-game ways to move that aren't movement.
Can you quote something that specifically says you "enter" a square that isn't movement? I'm sure if there is a specific exception to the rule listed above then it would of course be valid. You are claiming to know one? Whatever it is, I'm sure if it specifically says it causes you to enter a square, in some non-movement way... then yeah, it would trigger on-enter stuff. Teleport for sure doesn't say that. But maybe something else you are thinking of does?
I mean, otherwise you're just straight up disregarding the rule here that "you must have at least 1 square of movement left" without an exception? It says "must" that's not malleable to whim. You'd need an exception that says you could enter without needing remaining movement, and without paying that movement to do so. Specifically.
So if you “teleport yourself to an unoccupied space you can see within range” then you can’t enter that space unless you have movement left. So you haven’t entered that space? So where are you then?
You haven’t answered any of the points against your argument, you’ve just reiterated your incorrect position from the outset. That adds nothing. We’ve already shown you in black and white how you are wrong on all of the conclusions you drew from these rules.
Again, this isn’t engaging in the discussion, so it doesn’t really belong on this forum. It is at the mildest, bad argument.
I'm not wrong. I'm not sure what exactly poisoned yalls thinking here precisely but just look up any 'does teleportation count as movement" threads and you'll see this is well established and long ago settled. Teleportation isn't movement. You can want it to be. You can homebrew it to be. You can levy any and all accusations at me you want to. But teleportation isn't a movement. it isn't a move. it doesn't have a speed. Just doesn't. I'm sorry.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Movement is not required to enter a space. Again, you seem to have some fundamental issue with separating distinct ideas. You assert movement is required to enter a space when the only rule you’ve provided to support that assertion is one telling you HOW MUCH movement is required when you MOVE into a space while using the grid rules. Any time you go from not being in a space to being in it, you have entered it under any understanding of English.
TLDR: We know conclusively, for a fact, based on the text of the rules themselves:
Teleportation isn't movement, it has no speed, and can't be done with a move.
Entering a space requires moving into it, specifically by spending movement.
If you can't enter a space except by using movement, then you can't teleport, fall, or be pushed. Since you can only occupy a space by entering it (or being born there).
There is also the fact that your only definition for "entering a square" requires you to be playing on a grid. So if you aren't playing on a grid, according to the assertions of your argument, you can't enter or exit a space so never trigger OAs or AOEs.
TLDR: We know conclusively, for a fact, based on the text of the rules themselves:
Teleportation isn't movement, it has no speed, and can't be done with a move.
Entering a space requires moving into it, specifically by spending movement.
If you can't enter a space except by using movement, then you can't teleport, fall, or be pushed.
Disagree. I see no reason for this to be true.
Since you can only occupy a space by entering it (or being born there).
Seem like something you're inventing. Got a quote from the rules that says this? I just went through the entire section on movement and positioning in detail and this... not in it.
There is also the fact that your only definition for "entering a square" requires you to be playing on a grid. So if you aren't playing on a grid, according to the assertions of your argument, you can't enter or exit a space so never trigger OAs or AOEs.
I didn't write the PHB I don't know what gave you that impression. But, that is the definition it provides. So, what are you going to do? Either follow it or go a different route I guess. I'm not going to tell you how to run your game man.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
TLDR: We know conclusively, for a fact, based on the text of the rules themselves:
Teleportation isn't movement, it has no speed, and can't be done with a move.
Entering a space requires moving into it, specifically by spending movement.
If you can't enter a space except by using movement, then you can't teleport, fall, or be pushed. Since you can only occupy a space by entering it (or being born there).
There is also the fact that your only definition for "entering a square" requires you to be playing on a grid. So if you aren't playing on a grid, according to the assertions of your argument, you can't enter or exit a space so never trigger OAs or AOEs.
I guess when you use good ole Thorn Whip to pull someone 10 feet closer to you. it's the entire world that shifts in relation to the two of you, since your target can't enter a new square without spending movement
Moving the entire planet is pretty powerful for a cantrip.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So if you “teleport yourself to an unoccupied space you can see within range” then you can’t enter that space unless you have movement left. So you haven’t entered that space? So where are you then?
Sure. I can see where the issue is, just follow the rules text in the spell you cast, it will give specific instructions for how to handle special exceptions to the rules it is exempting.
You and your group (or the target object) appear where you want to.
You just appear there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Movement is not required to enter a space. Again, you seem to have some fundamental issue with separating distinct ideas. You assert movement is required to enter a space when the only rule you’ve provided to support that assertion is one telling you HOW MUCH movement is required when you MOVE into a space while using the grid rules. Any time you go from not being in a space to being in it, you have entered it under any understanding of English.
You're welcome to disregard a rule that provides a specific requirement all you like. But when a rule says something MUST happen? That's not a 'if you feel like it" kind of thing. The game defines this term and you are totally free to not like it or disagree and do something else if you wanna. But in the Combat chapter of the PHB... "Enter" appears only four times, and all four are in this quote:
Entering a Square.
To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you’re in. (The rule for diagonal movement sacrifices realism for the sake of smooth play. The Dungeon Master’s Guide provides guidance on using a more realistic approach.)
If a square costs extra movement, as a square of difficult terrain does, you must have enough movement left to pay for entering it. For example, you must have at least 2 squares of movement left to enter a square of difficult terrain.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'm not wrong. I'm not sure what exactly poisoned yalls thinking here precisely but just look up any 'does teleportation count as movement" threads and you'll see this is well established and long ago settled. Teleportation isn't movement. You can want it to be. You can homebrew it to be. You can levy any and all accusations at me you want to. But teleportation isn't a movement. it isn't a move. it doesn't have a speed. Just doesn't. I'm sorry.
That is not even the discussion. You are asserting that you can't enter/exit a space except by using move speed. That is wrong.
You are asserting that falling into fire does not cause damage because you did not "enter" it. You are asserting that a sphere of annihilation being controlled by an enemy is no threat because it can't "enter" your space unless it uses its own movement.
No body cares whether teleportation is movement, we only care that going from one space to another is correctly defined as entering a space.
You keep (incorrectly) pointing to an optional rule as a definition in the game. If that rule were required for the game to function, it would not be optional.
Quote from Ravnodaus>>The game defines this term and you are totally free to not like it or disagree and do something else if you wanna. But in the Combat chapter of the PHB... "Enter" appears only four times, and all four are in this quote:
That section is defining how you can use your movement. It is not relevant to any situation that does not use movement, such as teleportation, push/pull effects, and so on.
Movement is not required to enter a space. Again, you seem to have some fundamental issue with separating distinct ideas. You assert movement is required to enter a space when the only rule you’ve provided to support that assertion is one telling you HOW MUCH movement is required when you MOVE into a space while using the grid rules. Any time you go from not being in a space to being in it, you have entered it under any understanding of English.
You're welcome to disregard a rule that provides a specific requirement all you like. But when a rule says something MUST happen? That's not a 'if you feel like it" kind of thing. The game defines this term and you are totally free to not like it or disagree and do something else if you wanna. But in the Combat chapter of the PHB... "Enter" appears only four times, and all four are in this quote:
Entering a Square.
To enter a square, you must have at least 1 square of movement left, even if the square is diagonally adjacent to the square you’re in. (The rule for diagonal movement sacrifices realism for the sake of smooth play. The Dungeon Master’s Guide provides guidance on using a more realistic approach.)
If a square costs extra movement, as a square of difficult terrain does, you must have enough movement left to pay for entering it. For example, you must have at least 2 squares of movement left to enter a square of difficult terrain.
Sure, but that doesn't mean you've given the 5E definition of enter. Context matters. In this case, for one thing, you're referring to text that only applies if you're playing on a grid, and the general rules of the game simply don't assume a grid. You can provoke OAs while not on a grid, for example, and spells that use the word "enter" still have the same text when you're gridless. If you want to find rules precedent for defining "enter" in the general case, you need to look for it in the standard rules, not the variant rules.
Quote from Ravnodaus>>The game defines this term and you are totally free to not like it or disagree and do something else if you wanna. But in the Combat chapter of the PHB... "Enter" appears only four times, and all four are in this quote:
That section is defining how you can use your movement. It is not relevant to any situation that does not use movement, such as teleportation, push/pull effects, and so on.
That section of the rules is also not relevant to any other part of the rules that doesn't require the use of the optional grid rules (which is just about all of them).
If only the devs had bothered to define this common English term so we would know what it means. But sadly they didn't.
TLDR: We know conclusively, for a fact, based on the text of the rules themselves:
Teleportation isn't movement, it has no speed, and can't be done with a move.
Entering a space requires moving into it, specifically by spending movement.
If you can't enter a space except by using movement, then you can't teleport, fall, or be pushed. Since you can only occupy a space by entering it (or being born there).
There is also the fact that your only definition for "entering a square" requires you to be playing on a grid. So if you aren't playing on a grid, according to the assertions of your argument, you can't enter or exit a space so never trigger OAs or AOEs.
I guess when you use good ole Thorn Whip to pull someone 10 feet closer to you. it's the entire world that shifts in relation to the two of you, since your target can't enter a new square without spending movement
Moving the entire planet is pretty powerful for a cantrip.
He gets pulled 10 ft closer and is now in a closer space. But he didn't enter it. Because he didn't use his movement to do so. You pulled him into it.
It really is about Verbs. Verbs are action words. You know?
Who is doing the doing. So to speak. Is he doing it? Ie moving? That's him entering the space.
Are you doing? By yanking the guy? That's you pulling him into the space.
Saying he entered the space says that he is doing an action, entering. When he isn't. He isn't doing anything. You are.
Rules seem to agree: Since you MUST use your movement to enter a space.
Can you still get tossed around? Pulled, shunted, kicked, dragged, pushed, thrown, etc? Of course. But where you end up isn't because "you entered it" it was because you got manhandled and bodily "forced into it".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
So if you thorn whip a creature into a moonbeam, you’re saying that, contrary to what the designers say in SAC, the creature does not take damage? Then you are saying you know better than the designers?
Unfortunately, in common English, you can not occupy any place that you haven’t entered.
Based on common English with no concern for context, based on how you are defining it there, someone grappling someone could move them in and out of reach of someone with polearm mastery, triggering attacks of opportunity every time they re-enter the reach of the polearm master.
Not sure how many DM's would agree with that interpretation of the victim entering the reach of the polearm master, but on a strict reading, with the definition of 'enter' you are using polearm mastery could act as a buzzsaw effect.
This is explicitly not the case because of the special rules associated with opportunityattacks. But otherwise, yes, you can grapple move a person into an area, sure.
Don’t forget that OAs cost a reaction (that each creature has only one of) and spells often state “first time on a turn.”
Can you quote something that specifically says you "enter" a square that isn't movement? I'm sure if there is a specific exception to the rule listed above then it would of course be valid. You are claiming to know one? Whatever it is, I'm sure if it specifically says it causes you to enter a square, in some non-movement way... then yeah, it would trigger on-enter stuff. Teleport for sure doesn't say that. But maybe something else you are thinking of does?
I mean, otherwise you're just straight up disregarding the rule here that "you must have at least 1 square of movement left" without an exception? It says "must" that's not malleable to whim. You'd need an exception that says you could enter without needing remaining movement, and without paying that movement to do so. Specifically.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You haven’t answered any of the points against your argument, you’ve just reiterated your incorrect position from the outset. That adds nothing. We’ve already shown you in black and white how you are wrong on all of the conclusions you drew from these rules.
Again, this isn’t engaging in the discussion, so it doesn’t really belong on this forum. It is at the mildest, bad argument.
If you can't enter a space except by using movement, then you can't teleport, fall, or be pushed. Since you can only occupy a space by entering it (or being born there).
There is also the fact that your only definition for "entering a square" requires you to be playing on a grid. So if you aren't playing on a grid, according to the assertions of your argument, you can't enter or exit a space so never trigger OAs or AOEs.
So if you “teleport yourself to an unoccupied space you can see within range” then you can’t enter that space unless you have movement left. So you haven’t entered that space? So where are you then?
I'm not wrong. I'm not sure what exactly poisoned yalls thinking here precisely but just look up any 'does teleportation count as movement" threads and you'll see this is well established and long ago settled. Teleportation isn't movement. You can want it to be. You can homebrew it to be. You can levy any and all accusations at me you want to. But teleportation isn't a movement. it isn't a move. it doesn't have a speed. Just doesn't. I'm sorry.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Movement is not required to enter a space. Again, you seem to have some fundamental issue with separating distinct ideas. You assert movement is required to enter a space when the only rule you’ve provided to support that assertion is one telling you HOW MUCH movement is required when you MOVE into a space while using the grid rules. Any time you go from not being in a space to being in it, you have entered it under any understanding of English.
Disagree. I see no reason for this to be true.
Seem like something you're inventing. Got a quote from the rules that says this? I just went through the entire section on movement and positioning in detail and this... not in it.
I didn't write the PHB I don't know what gave you that impression. But, that is the definition it provides. So, what are you going to do? Either follow it or go a different route I guess. I'm not going to tell you how to run your game man.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I guess when you use good ole Thorn Whip to pull someone 10 feet closer to you. it's the entire world that shifts in relation to the two of you, since your target can't enter a new square without spending movement
Moving the entire planet is pretty powerful for a cantrip.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Sure. I can see where the issue is, just follow the rules text in the spell you cast, it will give specific instructions for how to handle special exceptions to the rules it is exempting.
You just appear there.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You're welcome to disregard a rule that provides a specific requirement all you like. But when a rule says something MUST happen? That's not a 'if you feel like it" kind of thing. The game defines this term and you are totally free to not like it or disagree and do something else if you wanna. But in the Combat chapter of the PHB... "Enter" appears only four times, and all four are in this quote:
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
That is not even the discussion. You are asserting that you can't enter/exit a space except by using move speed. That is wrong.
You are asserting that falling into fire does not cause damage because you did not "enter" it. You are asserting that a sphere of annihilation being controlled by an enemy is no threat because it can't "enter" your space unless it uses its own movement.
No body cares whether teleportation is movement, we only care that going from one space to another is correctly defined as entering a space.
You keep (incorrectly) pointing to an optional rule as a definition in the game. If that rule were required for the game to function, it would not be optional.
That section is defining how you can use your movement. It is not relevant to any situation that does not use movement, such as teleportation, push/pull effects, and so on.
Sure, but that doesn't mean you've given the 5E definition of enter. Context matters. In this case, for one thing, you're referring to text that only applies if you're playing on a grid, and the general rules of the game simply don't assume a grid. You can provoke OAs while not on a grid, for example, and spells that use the word "enter" still have the same text when you're gridless. If you want to find rules precedent for defining "enter" in the general case, you need to look for it in the standard rules, not the variant rules.
That section of the rules is also not relevant to any other part of the rules that doesn't require the use of the optional grid rules (which is just about all of them).
If only the devs had bothered to define this common English term so we would know what it means. But sadly they didn't.
Unfortunately, in common English, you can not occupy any place that you haven’t entered.
This is a reminder of the following:
Thank you
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
He gets pulled 10 ft closer and is now in a closer space. But he didn't enter it. Because he didn't use his movement to do so. You pulled him into it.
It really is about Verbs. Verbs are action words. You know?
Who is doing the doing. So to speak. Is he doing it? Ie moving? That's him entering the space.
Are you doing? By yanking the guy? That's you pulling him into the space.
Saying he entered the space says that he is doing an action, entering. When he isn't. He isn't doing anything. You are.
Rules seem to agree: Since you MUST use your movement to enter a space.
Can you still get tossed around? Pulled, shunted, kicked, dragged, pushed, thrown, etc? Of course. But where you end up isn't because "you entered it" it was because you got manhandled and bodily "forced into it".
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
So if you thorn whip a creature into a moonbeam, you’re saying that, contrary to what the designers say in SAC, the creature does not take damage? Then you are saying you know better than the designers?
This is explicitly not the case because of the special rules associated with opportunity attacks. But otherwise, yes, you can grapple move a person into an area, sure.
Don’t forget that OAs cost a reaction (that each creature has only one of) and spells often state “first time on a turn.”