So I was just wondering if anyone else doesn't like large multiverses in D&D. I personally dislike them because they make the adventures of the material realm look insignificant and lame, allow me to explain. *ahem* so you know how the official books talk about the material realm and all the cool magic and stuff, and its usually shown as Lord of the Ringsey, Harry Potter n stuff fantasy? That's the way I like my fantasy, purely fantasy with no added sci-fi. But occasionally the books will mention Mind Flayers, Gith, Eldritch Horrors, and even freaking space craft. I hate these things (not Beholders and Aboleths bc they aren't space faring sci-fi aliens last time I checked) bc they just seem like they don't belong in a medieval fantasy land. Like im cool with the feywild and domains of dread bc those things make sense with fantasy settings and belong there, unlike the squid aliens from another dimension that eat and work for brains and own spaceships.
TLDR: I don't like aliens and other dimensions in my fantasy games, wondering who else agrees
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my name is not Bryce
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Certified Dark Sun enjoyer
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For every user who writes 5 paragraph essays as each of their posts: Remember to touch grass occasionally
Umm. Spelljammer is awesome but i see where you are coming from.
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This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic byVitaly S Alexius
If you're the DM, the game can have whatever boundaries you want. However, fact is, finding a crashed alien space ship with energy weapons, robots and I think power armor has been a conceivable thing in D&D since Gary Gygax first wrote up Expedition to the Barrier Peaks ~1976.
Where your game goes I don't think matters as long as everyone's having a good time. My own DMing, when I was a lot younger I was probably more a Tolkien purist. Nowadays I play a setting that uses the Forgotten Realms, though the lyrics Chris Cornell wrote solo and with Audioslave are known by a lot of Bards, and there are other anachronistic touches. But the FR is a starting point, once the characters meet a certain coterie of NPCs the characters arrive in the homebrew world of Abandomiom, which is literally a broken world that travels the cosmos as a rogue comet. The overarching theme is kinda Lovecraft rehabilitated via the Book of Job and Stephen Crane, throw in a BBEG who's more modest empathetic ambivalent guy who instead of learning to govern read too much Samuel Beckett and played a book on disc version of White's Candle in the Wind backwards too many times, and an excavation on the origins of souls and why so many things want to collect them to a soundtrack dominated by everything Greg Lake ever sang as well as the finale track to American Psycho the Musical. Players and I are having fun. In between those two phases I played in lots of game worlds. The details of the setting didn't make or break the game so much as how the games were played by all involved.
Different settings allow players to explore or contend with different things. You want to explore concepts best entertained and contained in a "traditional fantasy setting." And you can mine that forever if you want. Or maybe you get bored and find. out the Lost Library of Kwalish is actually kinda cool ... I mean that City of Glass alone.
Let's not forget Harry Potter had train stations and flying cars....
I can understand not liking having "sci-fi" elements in a mostly "medieval" setting (noting that Spelljammer isn't purely sci-fi), and I would mostly agree if we had literal space marines or star destroyers (I know I'm mixing universes) in D&D. But as far as Spelljammer is concerned I don't mind, it's weird but it's not too far off.
As far other dimension are concerned, I love it. Same I can understand having reservation, I can quickly makes things really weird, but that's part of the fun in my opinion.
The way I see it, Spelljammer & Planescape (as far as D&D is concerned) allow me to have more choice for the aventures I want to make than simply having Toril and nothing else, but I doesn't mean everything as the be on a multiverse scale, I have no issue having a local scale threat in a multiversic setting.
If it helps, remember that most people in the Forgotten Realms don't know much to anything about the other planes, and even less about Wild Space and the Crystal spheres beyond Realmspace.
I mean I can relate to some extent, but stuff like mind flayers have been with D&D since the very earliest editions so it seems kind of weird to say they "don't fit" when they're just as deeply-ingrained in the game's lore and tradition as orcs, dragons, elves, clerics, and magic missiles.
I guess I'm a bit of a purist myself since I don't really use sci-fi elements all that often in my games either unless I'm running a module that calls for them, but I still have nothing against such elements and don't begrudge other people using them in their games. Remember that the great thing about D&D is you're 100% free to ignore or change anything in the books you don't like.
The idea of other worlds and planes, meanwhile, has roots in most human mythologies going back millennia so I don't really see what's so inherently "sci-fi" about just the idea of a vast multiverse. And yes, I also often pick and choose which planes I'm going to include/ignore for my own campaigns, but the existence of some other realms beyond the world I'm running is almost always a given.
The point of the greater multiverse is to present options for different sorts of adventures. Which ones you use in your games is entirely up to you.
Also, I'm not very familiar with Spelljammer but what I've heard does intrigue me. I get the impression that it's less like a classic sci-fi space opera and more like fantasy airships flying around an infinite night sky a la Peter Pan. I may be wrong. I really should look up some actual hard info on it...
space. is. full. of. explosive gas. like light a match and everyone in a million miles explodey fires. i need a warforged with fire immune.
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This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic byVitaly S Alexius
space. is. full. of. explosive gas. like light a match and everyone in a million miles explodey fires. i need a warforged with fire immune.
I just did some googling and combined with this comment I'm now imagining the phlogiston as the result of the gods of various realms expelling their farts through crystal wall portals a la opening a window on Taco Tuesday...
Well, I like spelljammer and other dimensions and stuff by themselves but I don't like when they exist in a typical fantasy. I personally think that fantasy is fine on its own without spelljammer but I'm all about purely spelljammer games (I tried to run a spelljammer campaign once but nobody i knew wanted to) And im running a steampunk Jojo game where alternate universes exist so I don't totally reject mild sci-fi in D&D. I just feel like when it exists in a normal fantasy world it kinda kills the medeival vibe for me.
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my name is not Bryce
Actor
Certified Dark Sun enjoyer
usually on forum games and not contributing to conversations ¯\_ (ツ)_/
For every user who writes 5 paragraph essays as each of their posts: Remember to touch grass occasionally
I just feel like when it exists in a normal fantasy world it kinda kills the medeival vibe for me.
Again, as a DM it is your privilege to set boundaries. If the parameters of your game don't transgress a material plane, you're not doing anything wrong, you're running a world that makes sense to the sort of game you want played. And a lot of games are set up that way. D&D world building allows you to set the kaleidoscope to a certain arrangement, or let it spin and drift into different direction. How you play or make wonder with it is a matter of choice and taste.
Just for a brain stretch though, I'd say you may want to pause and wonder what you mean by a "normal fantasy world" and a "medieval vibe." I mean is Lord of the Rings normal fantasy? I Conan? King Arthur? Terry Pratchett? I think the issue nowadays is that "fantasy" has so many other easy referents that aren't considered alternative or different takes anymore. D&D was developed in the midst of a turn away from or critque of "traditional knights and armor" fantasy and if you look at what's actually in the game's DNA, I don't think it was every really played in "normal medieval fantasy" mode. I mean check out the bibliographies in the PHB and DMG, a lot of them aren't really centered, or at least certainly not "respectful" of traditional medieval fantasy tropes. But again, that hasn't stopped many a table establishing a grounded historical reference point to their world. It's a toy box, not a mandate.
If you're the DM, the game can have whatever boundaries you want. However, fact is, finding a crashed alien space ship with energy weapons, robots and I think power armor has been a conceivable thing in D&D since Gary Gygax first wrote up Expedition to the Barrier Peaks ~1976.
Nope, even earlier. If we're talking just published D&D, its been around since Supplement II: Blackmoor's adventure The Temple of the Frog in 1975. And that was something from Dave Arneson's original Blackmoor game, so its literally part of the DNA of Dungeons & Dragons.
I love the giant multiverse. I want the whole kit - a multitude of planes, crystal speres, phlogiston and endless adventure. During my decades of playing it hasn't diminished the low level thrill of saving a village from goblins. It rather emphazise the zero to hero level system that's implicit in D&D and is part of the fun for my table.
If you're the DM, the game can have whatever boundaries you want. However, fact is, finding a crashed alien space ship with energy weapons, robots and I think power armor has been a conceivable thing in D&D since Gary Gygax first wrote up Expedition to the Barrier Peaks ~1976.
Nope, even earlier. If we're talking just published D&D, its been around since Supplement II: Blackmoor's adventure The Temple of the Frog in 1975. And that was something from Dave Arneson's original Blackmoor game, so its literally part of the DNA of Dungeons & Dragons.
I actually meant to include since 'at least" "~" means "around," but I appreciate the reference. But yeah D&D DNA was never purely. medieval high fantasy, it was a product of the fantasy of its times, which was all over the place.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I actually meant to include since 'at least" "~" means "around," but I appreciate the reference. But yeah D&D DNA was never purely. medieval high fantasy, it was a product of the fantasy of its times, which was all over the place.
That's why I prefer the term "pseudo-medieval" instead. Heck, its not even really medieval since there weren't really any Serfs (at least not in the 'default') back in the day if you engaged in Domain Play (at least you didn't have serfs if you were smart).
PEASANTS, SERFS, AND SLAVES In feudalistic societies, no person not of gentle or noble birth would be allowed weapons of offense, other than those for hunting. Therefore, swords, lances, maces, etc. would be totally banned. In societies which heavily oppress the commoners, serfs and/or slaves will be even more restricted than common peasants. They can have no weapon of any sort whatsoever. They cannot leave their area, be it a farm, estate, village, or whatever. They are chattel.
Peasants, serfs, and slaves generally resent this treatment. Revolts of these sorts of peoples are common in history. Any character who forces peasantry, serfdom, or slavery upon any inhabitants of an area he or she controls will have to be very careful to guard against uprisings. The oppressed folk will most certainly attempt an uprising Once every five years, minimum. If there is weakness noted, there will be an uprising immediately. Peasants will demand more freedom, rights, and lesser taxes; serfs will be attempting to gain peasant status; slaves will simply desire to slay their former masters and escape to somewhere where they can be free. Exact details of such uprisings are not possible here, but you should be able to determine them without undue difficulty. The oppressed populace will give rise to about 1 fighter for every 5 total, as men, women, and just about anybody able to carry a club or a knife will join in. Arms and armor (if any) will be scant and crude. Troops will be 0 level, peasant class. Tactical ability will usually tend to be nil. The exception is if some mercenary group aids peasants, or if some slaves have had military experience.
If a rising does occur, the player character must suppress it as soon as possible. If it lasts more than one month, the revolting folk will gain experience, organization, recruits, and better weapons and armor. Therefore, for each full month of successful revolt, add 10% to the number of people in revolt, assume 10% of the total force becomes equal to regular men-at-arms in training and armor and weapons, and allow them greater tactical ability. After six months of successful revolt, the rebellion can be assumed to have taken on the status of a civil war, and the revolutionaries will be able to field something approximating a regular military force. - 1E AD&D DMG, p.94
Of course, research that has come to light since this was written over 40 years ago shows that peasants in Medieval Europe most certainly had weapons, even if it was only a handbill or a war bow, and access to armor like Gambeson (which actually is shown to be quite effective, moreso than actual cured leather of similar thickness).
The post-apocalyptic nature of the default original Dungeons & Dragons back in the day sort of made it like a combination of The Hundred Years War, the Black Death and 6th-10th century Saxon England (with its multiple kingdoms) all rolled into one. And the population densities of the actual published Greyhawk puts the Flanaess somewhere between modern Wyoming at 6 per mile and Alaska at 1.28 per mile at around ~4.6. To give a comparison, Medieval England had an average population density of like 10 per mile. And most of the populace given will be clustered in a few areas (such as the capital). Those 30mile hexes made a huge difference. And if you factor in bandits/outlaws being dispersed fiefdom armies, you're still not adding that much to the overall population. There's a LOT of open wilderness out there and the King doesn't own it all......so serfdom is almost impossible when you sit and think about it.
Of course, research that has come to light since this was written over 40 years ago shows that peasants in Medieval Europe most certainly had weapons, even if it was only a handbill or a war bow, and access to armor like Gambeson (which actually is shown to be quite effective, moreso than actual cured leather of similar thickness).
Trust me, a bunch of dudes in a Wisconsin basement developing their hobby into a cottage business just didn't get their history right. Historians in the 70s were aware of armed peasants etc. (Sort of ironic because the U. Wisconsin system is no slouch in its language and literatures programs). A lot of Dragon magazine actually had on a number of occasions (usually lay) quasi-scholarly interventions coaching DMs how to get "medievalism" right contra the manuals. Come to think of it there was a pretty good Dragon article on maintaining a Yeomanry in ones fiefdom. Game was always more fantasist than simulationist in world build.
The post-apocalyptic nature of the default original Dungeons & Dragons back in the day sort of made it like a combination of The Hundred Years War, the Black Death and 6th-10th century Saxon England (with its multiple kingdoms) all rolled into one. And the population densities of the actual published Greyhawk puts the Flanaess somewhere between modern Wyoming at 6 per mile and Alaska at 1.28 per mile at around ~4.6. To give a comparison, Medieval England had an average population density of like 10 per mile. And most of the populace given will be clustered in a few areas (such as the capital). Those 30mile hexes made a huge difference. And if you factor in bandits/outlaws being dispersed fiefdom armies, you're still not adding that much to the overall population. There's a LOT of open wilderness out there and the King doesn't own it all......so serfdom is almost impossible when you sit and think about it.
So, would you say those "who would rule" didn't so much manage broad geographic nation states, so much as provide secure city states where those within their walls (whether residents or passing through) could in good faith conduct commerce safely? To go back to post apocalypse nature, basically cities were basically Bartertown, and every Lord an Aunty Entity? I mean she did wear chainmail after all.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
So, would you say those "who would rule" didn't so much manage broad geographic nation states, so much as provide secure city states where those within their walls (whether residents or passing through) could in good faith conduct commerce safely? To go back to post apocalypse nature, basically cities were basically Bartertown, and every Lord an Aunty Entity? I mean she did wear chainmail after all.
I think most people mistakenly assume the system in place is akin to true Feudalism where the King owns every bit of land and the system of vassalage allows him to dole out the lands to such nobles as he can. Its more like, as said previously, the Saxon system during the post-Roman era: a King is sort of limited in what he can do. He has to depend on the nobles he has under his direct authority to maintain that authority. They might, if push came to shove, oust him. When you consider the situation of The Great Kingdom of the Aerdy, its even more wacky since its basically D&D's version of The Holy Roman Empire. Even the Overking in Rauxes can be resisted. And add to this all the skullduggery of groups like The Scarlet Brotherhood on top of humanoids who constantly raid into the borderlands areas on top of some truly terrifying monsters that occasionally pop up like Spirit Naga (N1: Cult of the Reptile God) and your run of the mill dirtbags like The Slave Lords who represent corsairs and bandits alike. And then you have weird cults like The Cult of Evil Chaos (situated in The Caves of Chaos) in The Principality of Ulek (on the border of The Pomarj) and The Temple of Elemental Evil (in the borderlands of Veluna).
There is a reason for Domain Play that has everything to do with bringing these wild lands under the dominion of humans and demihumans, making sure that the light of civilization isn't snuffed out. Outside the big cities (so a few hexes of territory at most to feed everyone in a kingdom), its mostly wilderness. You have a few scattered thorps and hamlets within any given group of hexes and a whole lot of either monster or bandit infested lands (and more of the latter than the former, in fact).
So I was just wondering if anyone else doesn't like large multiverses in D&D. I personally dislike them because they make the adventures of the material realm look insignificant and lame, allow me to explain. *ahem* so you know how the official books talk about the material realm and all the cool magic and stuff, and its usually shown as Lord of the Ringsey, Harry Potter n stuff fantasy? That's the way I like my fantasy, purely fantasy with no added sci-fi. But occasionally the books will mention Mind Flayers, Gith, Eldritch Horrors, and even freaking space craft. I hate these things (not Beholders and Aboleths bc they aren't space faring sci-fi aliens last time I checked) bc they just seem like they don't belong in a medieval fantasy land. Like im cool with the feywild and domains of dread bc those things make sense with fantasy settings and belong there, unlike the squid aliens from another dimension that eat and work for brains and own spaceships.
TLDR: I don't like aliens and other dimensions in my fantasy games, wondering who else agrees
my name is not Bryce
Actor
Certified Dark Sun enjoyer
usually on forum games and not contributing to conversations ¯\_ (ツ)_/
For every user who writes 5 paragraph essays as each of their posts: Remember to touch grass occasionally
Umm. Spelljammer is awesome but i see where you are coming from.
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic by Vitaly S Alexius
If you're the DM, the game can have whatever boundaries you want. However, fact is, finding a crashed alien space ship with energy weapons, robots and I think power armor has been a conceivable thing in D&D since Gary Gygax first wrote up Expedition to the Barrier Peaks ~1976.
Where your game goes I don't think matters as long as everyone's having a good time. My own DMing, when I was a lot younger I was probably more a Tolkien purist. Nowadays I play a setting that uses the Forgotten Realms, though the lyrics Chris Cornell wrote solo and with Audioslave are known by a lot of Bards, and there are other anachronistic touches. But the FR is a starting point, once the characters meet a certain coterie of NPCs the characters arrive in the homebrew world of Abandomiom, which is literally a broken world that travels the cosmos as a rogue comet. The overarching theme is kinda Lovecraft rehabilitated via the Book of Job and Stephen Crane, throw in a BBEG who's more modest empathetic ambivalent guy who instead of learning to govern read too much Samuel Beckett and played a book on disc version of White's Candle in the Wind backwards too many times, and an excavation on the origins of souls and why so many things want to collect them to a soundtrack dominated by everything Greg Lake ever sang as well as the finale track to American Psycho the Musical. Players and I are having fun. In between those two phases I played in lots of game worlds. The details of the setting didn't make or break the game so much as how the games were played by all involved.
Different settings allow players to explore or contend with different things. You want to explore concepts best entertained and contained in a "traditional fantasy setting." And you can mine that forever if you want. Or maybe you get bored and find. out the Lost Library of Kwalish is actually kinda cool ... I mean that City of Glass alone.
Let's not forget Harry Potter had train stations and flying cars....
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Harry Potter was actually a very inconsistent setting.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I can understand not liking having "sci-fi" elements in a mostly "medieval" setting (noting that Spelljammer isn't purely sci-fi), and I would mostly agree if we had literal space marines or star destroyers (I know I'm mixing universes) in D&D. But as far as Spelljammer is concerned I don't mind, it's weird but it's not too far off.
As far other dimension are concerned, I love it. Same I can understand having reservation, I can quickly makes things really weird, but that's part of the fun in my opinion.
The way I see it, Spelljammer & Planescape (as far as D&D is concerned) allow me to have more choice for the aventures I want to make than simply having Toril and nothing else, but I doesn't mean everything as the be on a multiverse scale, I have no issue having a local scale threat in a multiversic setting.
If it helps, remember that most people in the Forgotten Realms don't know much to anything about the other planes, and even less about Wild Space and the Crystal spheres beyond Realmspace.
I mean I can relate to some extent, but stuff like mind flayers have been with D&D since the very earliest editions so it seems kind of weird to say they "don't fit" when they're just as deeply-ingrained in the game's lore and tradition as orcs, dragons, elves, clerics, and magic missiles.
I guess I'm a bit of a purist myself since I don't really use sci-fi elements all that often in my games either unless I'm running a module that calls for them, but I still have nothing against such elements and don't begrudge other people using them in their games. Remember that the great thing about D&D is you're 100% free to ignore or change anything in the books you don't like.
The idea of other worlds and planes, meanwhile, has roots in most human mythologies going back millennia so I don't really see what's so inherently "sci-fi" about just the idea of a vast multiverse. And yes, I also often pick and choose which planes I'm going to include/ignore for my own campaigns, but the existence of some other realms beyond the world I'm running is almost always a given.
The point of the greater multiverse is to present options for different sorts of adventures. Which ones you use in your games is entirely up to you.
Also, I'm not very familiar with Spelljammer but what I've heard does intrigue me. I get the impression that it's less like a classic sci-fi space opera and more like fantasy airships flying around an infinite night sky a la Peter Pan. I may be wrong. I really should look up some actual hard info on it...
space. is. full. of. explosive gas. like light a match and everyone in a million miles explodey fires. i need a warforged with fire immune.
This Mug immediately shared with me a transcendental tale of an Infinite Mug that anchors the Universe and keeps it from folding in on itself. I filed this report under "illogical nonsense" and asked why its sign is in Times New Roman font, when it is basic knowledge that Arial Black is a far superior font. I wondered: How did this mug even get past the assembly line with its theistic beliefs and poor font choices?
quote from Romantically Apocalyptic by Vitaly S Alexius
I just did some googling and combined with this comment I'm now imagining the phlogiston as the result of the gods of various realms expelling their farts through crystal wall portals a la opening a window on Taco Tuesday...
Well, I like spelljammer and other dimensions and stuff by themselves but I don't like when they exist in a typical fantasy. I personally think that fantasy is fine on its own without spelljammer but I'm all about purely spelljammer games (I tried to run a spelljammer campaign once but nobody i knew wanted to) And im running a steampunk Jojo game where alternate universes exist so I don't totally reject mild sci-fi in D&D. I just feel like when it exists in a normal fantasy world it kinda kills the medeival vibe for me.
my name is not Bryce
Actor
Certified Dark Sun enjoyer
usually on forum games and not contributing to conversations ¯\_ (ツ)_/
For every user who writes 5 paragraph essays as each of their posts: Remember to touch grass occasionally
Again, as a DM it is your privilege to set boundaries. If the parameters of your game don't transgress a material plane, you're not doing anything wrong, you're running a world that makes sense to the sort of game you want played. And a lot of games are set up that way. D&D world building allows you to set the kaleidoscope to a certain arrangement, or let it spin and drift into different direction. How you play or make wonder with it is a matter of choice and taste.
Just for a brain stretch though, I'd say you may want to pause and wonder what you mean by a "normal fantasy world" and a "medieval vibe." I mean is Lord of the Rings normal fantasy? I Conan? King Arthur? Terry Pratchett? I think the issue nowadays is that "fantasy" has so many other easy referents that aren't considered alternative or different takes anymore. D&D was developed in the midst of a turn away from or critque of "traditional knights and armor" fantasy and if you look at what's actually in the game's DNA, I don't think it was every really played in "normal medieval fantasy" mode. I mean check out the bibliographies in the PHB and DMG, a lot of them aren't really centered, or at least certainly not "respectful" of traditional medieval fantasy tropes. But again, that hasn't stopped many a table establishing a grounded historical reference point to their world. It's a toy box, not a mandate.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Nope, even earlier. If we're talking just published D&D, its been around since Supplement II: Blackmoor's adventure The Temple of the Frog in 1975. And that was something from Dave Arneson's original Blackmoor game, so its literally part of the DNA of Dungeons & Dragons.
I love the giant multiverse. I want the whole kit - a multitude of planes, crystal speres, phlogiston and endless adventure. During my decades of playing it hasn't diminished the low level thrill of saving a village from goblins. It rather emphazise the zero to hero level system that's implicit in D&D and is part of the fun for my table.
I actually meant to include since 'at least" "~" means "around," but I appreciate the reference. But yeah D&D DNA was never purely. medieval high fantasy, it was a product of the fantasy of its times, which was all over the place.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
That's why I prefer the term "pseudo-medieval" instead. Heck, its not even really medieval since there weren't really any Serfs (at least not in the 'default') back in the day if you engaged in Domain Play (at least you didn't have serfs if you were smart).
PEASANTS, SERFS, AND SLAVES
In feudalistic societies, no person not of gentle or noble birth would be allowed weapons of offense, other than those for hunting. Therefore, swords, lances, maces, etc. would be totally banned. In societies which heavily oppress the commoners, serfs and/or slaves will be even more restricted than common peasants. They can have no weapon of any sort whatsoever. They cannot leave their area, be it a farm, estate, village, or whatever. They are chattel.
Peasants, serfs, and slaves generally resent this treatment. Revolts of these sorts of peoples are common in history. Any character who forces peasantry, serfdom, or slavery upon any inhabitants of an area he or she controls will have to be very careful to guard against uprisings. The oppressed folk will most certainly attempt an uprising Once every five years, minimum. If there is weakness noted, there will be an uprising immediately. Peasants will demand more freedom, rights, and lesser taxes; serfs will be attempting to gain peasant status; slaves will simply desire to slay their former masters and escape to somewhere where they can be free. Exact details of such uprisings are not possible here, but you should be able to determine them without undue difficulty. The oppressed populace will give rise to about 1 fighter for every 5 total, as men, women, and just about anybody able to carry a club or a knife will join in. Arms and armor (if any) will be scant and crude. Troops will be 0 level, peasant class. Tactical ability will usually tend to be nil. The exception is if some mercenary group aids peasants, or if some slaves have had military experience.
If a rising does occur, the player character must suppress it as soon as possible. If it lasts more than one month, the revolting folk will gain experience, organization, recruits, and better weapons and armor. Therefore, for each full month of successful revolt, add 10% to the number of people in revolt, assume 10% of the total force becomes equal to regular
men-at-arms in training and armor and weapons, and allow them greater tactical ability. After six months of successful revolt, the rebellion can be assumed to have taken on the status of a civil war, and the revolutionaries will be able to field something approximating a regular military force. - 1E AD&D DMG, p.94
Of course, research that has come to light since this was written over 40 years ago shows that peasants in Medieval Europe most certainly had weapons, even if it was only a handbill or a war bow, and access to armor like Gambeson (which actually is shown to be quite effective, moreso than actual cured leather of similar thickness).
The post-apocalyptic nature of the default original Dungeons & Dragons back in the day sort of made it like a combination of The Hundred Years War, the Black Death and 6th-10th century Saxon England (with its multiple kingdoms) all rolled into one. And the population densities of the actual published Greyhawk puts the Flanaess somewhere between modern Wyoming at 6 per mile and Alaska at 1.28 per mile at around ~4.6. To give a comparison, Medieval England had an average population density of like 10 per mile. And most of the populace given will be clustered in a few areas (such as the capital). Those 30mile hexes made a huge difference. And if you factor in bandits/outlaws being dispersed fiefdom armies, you're still not adding that much to the overall population. There's a LOT of open wilderness out there and the King doesn't own it all......so serfdom is almost impossible when you sit and think about it.
Trust me, a bunch of dudes in a Wisconsin basement developing their hobby into a cottage business just didn't get their history right. Historians in the 70s were aware of armed peasants etc. (Sort of ironic because the U. Wisconsin system is no slouch in its language and literatures programs). A lot of Dragon magazine actually had on a number of occasions (usually lay) quasi-scholarly interventions coaching DMs how to get "medievalism" right contra the manuals. Come to think of it there was a pretty good Dragon article on maintaining a Yeomanry in ones fiefdom. Game was always more fantasist than simulationist in world build.
So, would you say those "who would rule" didn't so much manage broad geographic nation states, so much as provide secure city states where those within their walls (whether residents or passing through) could in good faith conduct commerce safely? To go back to post apocalypse nature, basically cities were basically Bartertown, and every Lord an Aunty Entity? I mean she did wear chainmail after all.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Well, most of the Sword Coast is limited to citystates.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I think most people mistakenly assume the system in place is akin to true Feudalism where the King owns every bit of land and the system of vassalage allows him to dole out the lands to such nobles as he can. Its more like, as said previously, the Saxon system during the post-Roman era: a King is sort of limited in what he can do. He has to depend on the nobles he has under his direct authority to maintain that authority. They might, if push came to shove, oust him. When you consider the situation of The Great Kingdom of the Aerdy, its even more wacky since its basically D&D's version of The Holy Roman Empire. Even the Overking in Rauxes can be resisted. And add to this all the skullduggery of groups like The Scarlet Brotherhood on top of humanoids who constantly raid into the borderlands areas on top of some truly terrifying monsters that occasionally pop up like Spirit Naga (N1: Cult of the Reptile God) and your run of the mill dirtbags like The Slave Lords who represent corsairs and bandits alike. And then you have weird cults like The Cult of Evil Chaos (situated in The Caves of Chaos) in The Principality of Ulek (on the border of The Pomarj) and The Temple of Elemental Evil (in the borderlands of Veluna).
There is a reason for Domain Play that has everything to do with bringing these wild lands under the dominion of humans and demihumans, making sure that the light of civilization isn't snuffed out. Outside the big cities (so a few hexes of territory at most to feed everyone in a kingdom), its mostly wilderness. You have a few scattered thorps and hamlets within any given group of hexes and a whole lot of either monster or bandit infested lands (and more of the latter than the former, in fact).