As I started DMing I stumbled across some ideas in worldbuilding. Is it well known that Liches have a Phylactery? Should I ask for a history DC and if I should what would be a understandable DC?
If you’re world building, it’s entirely up to you. How common do you want the knowledge in your world? The first question is how common are they? The more liches, the more common the knowledge, would be the standard logic. But it really depends. How far do liches go to keep the existence of them secret? Is there only one lich in the world? Then I imagine it wouldn’t tell anyone about it’s phylactery. Is the world run by a bunch of lich kings? Then probably it’s fairly common knowledge, as the kings would have elaborate protections, if only to guard against the other lich kings.
I think in a standard world, where there are maybe a few liches, but not too many. It would be known, but maybe not common knowledge. Probably at wizard school they talk about liches. But it’s not something the average farmer would know about.
I think Xalthu hit the nail on the head--you have to think about your particular world and make the difficulty of a check based on that.
Just as a baseline, I am going to assume a world where the knowledge is not an absolute secret, but is something that many people might not know. Let us use Harry Potter as a baseline, since that's a story I assume you have probably read. In Harry Potter, horcruxes serve the same basic role as a phylactery. The knowledge is kept relatively secret--presumably those who make horcruxes do not want them destroyed and others who know about them want to keep them secret so fewer people attempt to make a horcrux. Still, we see at least two professors at Hogwarts know about them, and it is possible others might, and we see that Tom Riddle, a high school student, was able to find out enough information to start asking about them.
Using this as a baseline, where "liches" are rare but not unheard of, we can assume the knowledge is fairly rare, but it is conceivable someone might have come across something in their studies.
I would probably accept one of three types of check for this information. The easiest (though still likely hard, unless a character has specific knowledge that might reduce the difficulty) would be a Arcana or Religion check. Someone engaged in the practice of magic or the study of religion is more likely to have come across information in their studies. History would be the next highest, with a much harder difficulty. I could probably also be convinced to allow a Bard to do a performance check to see if he or she could remember a song/story about a lich, but I would make that DC much harder than the history check.
Specific knowledge that might make an individual's check easier could include whether that player is versed in necromancy--if they are a death-based class, that might make the check a little easier. Or if their backstory involves their growing up in a land near where the lich lives. Consider a real world example--someone who grew up in Slavic states likely would know the story of Koschei the Immortal, a character with traits of a lich, whereas someone from England was likely ignorant of the tale and would not be able to draw the lich connection.
If you want the party to have a difficult time on the check, but still want to advance the story, consider that you could give a half-success. The Religion/History/Arcana check might cause the player to remember a story about a lich being killed, but not how the lich was killed. That would prove it is possible, but make it so they have to go find a way to gain that information. You could even have another partial success higher than that--they remember the lich was killed and remember a certain mage/kingdom/temple/etc. was involved in the killing, so they both learn it is possible to kill the lich and get a clue as to where they could gain the information they need.
Also, people might have false or incomplete knowledge of such topics, so characters might not know what is true, what is just folklore/hearsay and what is the gibberish of a madman.
Also, people might have false or incomplete knowledge of such topics, so characters might not know what is true, what is just folklore/hearsay and what is the gibberish of a madman.
Absolutely. The source of the knowledge can be as important as its truth. A salty adventurer might tell tall tales that stretch the truth, but he's deadly serious about the lich's phylactery. Or you might have a bookish scholar of Kelemvor who professes to know about the undead, but the information he has is based entirely on a line of bookish scholars who have never seen so much as an animated skeleton for themselves.
Remember that a low roll on a History check doesn't just have to be "you don't know." You could say "you know [note the confidence of the language I used] that when a lich dies its soul goes into an urn," which then has the players smashing urns like Link faster than you can say "hyaaa!" when really this lich's phylactery is its amulet. A Detect Magic spell will reveal it's magical. It might even be usable by the players providing an AC bonus or whatever... but the lich is still inside. Or perhaps they know the lich's phylactery is its amulet, but if the amulet is destroyed the lich is restored to full power, so they'd best look after it. There's a number of possibilities.
The problem with my suggestions is that if your players write down everything, they might not feel like they have to get a second opinion. If they know they rolled badly and get some information, they might be more inclined to roll again at another time. Sometimes saying "you don't know" means another party member at another time will ask again.
I echo what others have said though: how common are liches in your setting, and how well known are they that their secrets may or may not slip through their defences? Let's not forget that liches aren't just intelligent wizard types, they're also very cunning, building defences to ensure their source of continued immortality is well protected. ^^
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
As I started DMing I stumbled across some ideas in worldbuilding.
Is it well known that Liches have a Phylactery?
Should I ask for a history DC and if I should what would be a understandable DC?
If you’re world building, it’s entirely up to you. How common do you want the knowledge in your world? The first question is how common are they? The more liches, the more common the knowledge, would be the standard logic. But it really depends. How far do liches go to keep the existence of them secret? Is there only one lich in the world? Then I imagine it wouldn’t tell anyone about it’s phylactery. Is the world run by a bunch of lich kings? Then probably it’s fairly common knowledge, as the kings would have elaborate protections, if only to guard against the other lich kings.
I think in a standard world, where there are maybe a few liches, but not too many. It would be known, but maybe not common knowledge. Probably at wizard school they talk about liches. But it’s not something the average farmer would know about.
I think Xalthu hit the nail on the head--you have to think about your particular world and make the difficulty of a check based on that.
Just as a baseline, I am going to assume a world where the knowledge is not an absolute secret, but is something that many people might not know. Let us use Harry Potter as a baseline, since that's a story I assume you have probably read. In Harry Potter, horcruxes serve the same basic role as a phylactery. The knowledge is kept relatively secret--presumably those who make horcruxes do not want them destroyed and others who know about them want to keep them secret so fewer people attempt to make a horcrux. Still, we see at least two professors at Hogwarts know about them, and it is possible others might, and we see that Tom Riddle, a high school student, was able to find out enough information to start asking about them.
Using this as a baseline, where "liches" are rare but not unheard of, we can assume the knowledge is fairly rare, but it is conceivable someone might have come across something in their studies.
I would probably accept one of three types of check for this information. The easiest (though still likely hard, unless a character has specific knowledge that might reduce the difficulty) would be a Arcana or Religion check. Someone engaged in the practice of magic or the study of religion is more likely to have come across information in their studies. History would be the next highest, with a much harder difficulty. I could probably also be convinced to allow a Bard to do a performance check to see if he or she could remember a song/story about a lich, but I would make that DC much harder than the history check.
Specific knowledge that might make an individual's check easier could include whether that player is versed in necromancy--if they are a death-based class, that might make the check a little easier. Or if their backstory involves their growing up in a land near where the lich lives. Consider a real world example--someone who grew up in Slavic states likely would know the story of Koschei the Immortal, a character with traits of a lich, whereas someone from England was likely ignorant of the tale and would not be able to draw the lich connection.
If you want the party to have a difficult time on the check, but still want to advance the story, consider that you could give a half-success. The Religion/History/Arcana check might cause the player to remember a story about a lich being killed, but not how the lich was killed. That would prove it is possible, but make it so they have to go find a way to gain that information. You could even have another partial success higher than that--they remember the lich was killed and remember a certain mage/kingdom/temple/etc. was involved in the killing, so they both learn it is possible to kill the lich and get a clue as to where they could gain the information they need.
I am very greatful for you answers! Thank you.
Also, people might have false or incomplete knowledge of such topics, so characters might not know what is true, what is just folklore/hearsay and what is the gibberish of a madman.
Absolutely. The source of the knowledge can be as important as its truth. A salty adventurer might tell tall tales that stretch the truth, but he's deadly serious about the lich's phylactery. Or you might have a bookish scholar of Kelemvor who professes to know about the undead, but the information he has is based entirely on a line of bookish scholars who have never seen so much as an animated skeleton for themselves.
Remember that a low roll on a History check doesn't just have to be "you don't know." You could say "you know [note the confidence of the language I used] that when a lich dies its soul goes into an urn," which then has the players smashing urns like Link faster than you can say "hyaaa!" when really this lich's phylactery is its amulet. A Detect Magic spell will reveal it's magical. It might even be usable by the players providing an AC bonus or whatever... but the lich is still inside. Or perhaps they know the lich's phylactery is its amulet, but if the amulet is destroyed the lich is restored to full power, so they'd best look after it. There's a number of possibilities.
The problem with my suggestions is that if your players write down everything, they might not feel like they have to get a second opinion. If they know they rolled badly and get some information, they might be more inclined to roll again at another time. Sometimes saying "you don't know" means another party member at another time will ask again.
I echo what others have said though: how common are liches in your setting, and how well known are they that their secrets may or may not slip through their defences? Let's not forget that liches aren't just intelligent wizard types, they're also very cunning, building defences to ensure their source of continued immortality is well protected. ^^
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft