Yeenhogu is not a god, he is a demon lord. In older editions there were Gnolls linked to a hyena god, yeenhogu and both and some escaped demonic chains. In ebberon many Gnolls escaped fiendish chains and became a unified mercenary swarm. Gnolls are to be hated when connected to fiends and in awe when they escape and start slaying fiends. Gnolls are BEST redemption arc ever.
I mean, if you don’t want to run your game that way it’s your prerogative, but it’s very much a staple of any kind of fantastic fiction, not some failing of the D&D writers in particular. Also, exactly to what degree gnolls qualify as “sentient” under the common use of the term is arguably up in the air. One could make a case that within the official material they’re closer to organic automatons. They’re animals given a crude uplift and a basic set of directives and impulses hard-coded into their minds.
As a final point, one of the drawing points of fantasy/sci-fi for some is the opportunity to explore other modes of being. People reject “always Evil” because that’s not how human beings work, but we’re not talking about human beings here. We’re talking about beings directly spawned by magic. It seems a bit narrow to say the human experience is the only mode of existence in such a setting.
No, you're right, it's a failing of writers in general - while the D&D writers are universally awful, this particular failing isn't theirs alone.
It's not a failing. I'm not saying you have to enjoy or use the trope, but it is a valid one to write from. Not every other form of being in the cosmos has to be socially compatible with others so that they can "come to town to trade", as it were. The appeal of the Borg as a narrative point in Star Trek TNG was that there was no reasoning with them or finding common ground. They either assimilated you or destroyed you outright and that was that. No deep and nuanced backstory or justification, it was just what they were and what they did. In a setting that usually plays with nuance and circumstance and suchlike, the challenge of a race that's completely outside that frame of reference was new and interesting for the setting. While some later materials diverged from that point, those materials arguably diluted the impact of the Borg.
It's not a failing. I'm not saying you have to enjoy or use the trope, but it is a valid one to write from. Not every other form of being in the cosmos has to be socially compatible with others so that they can "come to town to trade", as it were. The appeal of the Borg as a narrative point in Star Trek TNG was that there was no reasoning with them or finding common ground. They either assimilated you or destroyed you outright and that was that. No deep and nuanced backstory or justification, it was just what they were and what they did. In a setting that usually plays with nuance and circumstance and suchlike, the challenge of a race that's completely outside that frame of reference was new and interesting for the setting. While some later materials diverged from that point, those materials arguably diluted the impact of the Borg.
It is a failing. It's a copout. It's weak, pathetic writing that creates 2-dimensional enemies, 2-dimensional stories - and seems to satisfy a lot of consumers of books, movies, computer games who simply want empty calories. Their loss.
The borg are not the exception you seem to think they are. Their background is as deep as that of the klingons - not that I have an exact word count.
But you're wrong. Every race 'comes to town to trade' - as it were - once in a while, because no race is entirely self-sufficient. So everyone, basically without exception, occasionally visits other races, to fill their grain stores, or buy ingots, or silk, or spice, or cutlery. Even mind flayers or drow (although they may not come in person). Possibly not dragons, liches, cthonian elder beings and elemental princes. But everyone else.
I can see why someone might not want to explain where some enemy race - could be gnolls, orcs, goblins, giants, ogres, whatever - get their food from, where their farms are. But it is literally impossible for any living thing to indefinitely sustain itself solely on raiding. So either you're lazy, or you decide what a race does in ... downtime. And that's what I'm doing.
I'm not saying you have to enjoy it, or agree with it. But that's why this thread.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
It's objectively possible for a living being sustain itself solely on predation. Case in point: literally every predator species in existence.
And that's because prey animals don't organise counter raids, and murder you where you sleep.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Right. Lets see a group of villagers try raiding an illithid compound, or a gnoll camp. Honestly, both groups would probably be enthusiastic about the idea. It's like Doordash; the food comes to you. Humanoids are not the apex predators of a classic D&D setting; the majority of the population amounts to fodder if even a moderate CR monster rolls through, and if something like a ancient dragon, elder brain, or gnoll warband sets its sights on anything short of a decently sized fortified city, they're just straight up done for unless high level adventurers or an equivalent force are around.
Look, like I've said, if you want to make every being in your setting functionally a human with a rubber forehead or big ears or whatever, go for it. But it is objectively not poor writing to explore alien mindsets sufficiently divorced from the only one we have real-world experience with that mutual coexistence is not possible. As far as "no race being self-sufficient" goes, killing you and taking your stuff works pretty well for self-sufficiency, if they can pull it off. Again, that was Borg 101, and before a bunch of secondary material got added after the fact that was the entire crux of the conflict. The Borg had, via assimilation, attained a base tech level so far ahead of anyone in the Alpha or Beta Quadrant that without Q giving the Enterprise a heads up about their existence and capabilities, they'd have assimilated them too and gone on unchecked. And, as a cursory glance through the Monster Manual or MotM will clearly demonstrate, the same basic dynamic is entirely within the realm of possibility for several non-humanoid antagonist races, by the numbers. A commoner has 4 HP; pretty much any attack connects, they're dead. Guards, which cover both things like town watch and basic foot soldiers, have 11 HP; gnolls have 22. You put guards against even just basic gnolls with anything less than 2 to 1 numbers in their favor, and it's a foregone conclusion.
The idea that there's no way a monstrous race can support themselves by raiding and oppression is seriously contradicted by their capabilities. To return to the Borg example again, the original massive climactic battle against them only featured a single Borg cube, and it took a decent portion of protagonist power for the Enterprise to pull a win in the final seconds after it had already smashed 40 ships in one go. Granted, comparing capabilities is a white room exercise and anything further gets into "my imaginary friend can beat up yours" as it's based on worldbuilding, but the idea that a singularly hostile monstrous race could not possibly survive in the D&D setting doesn't hold up. The capability objectively exists within the material, it's just a matter of whether or not any given setting allows it to play out. To reiterate, none of this means you have to play a race in this manner, but by the same token this manner is not invalid either as a narrative point or as a viable possibility with the mechanics of the system.
Humanoids are not the apex predators of a classic D&D setting
That is, in fact, precisely what they are. I cannot point to a single setting where humans don't rule the world, and while there are individual monsters that are more powerful than individual dirtfarmers, the monsters are invariably reduced to troves of treasure and xp.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Acromos, understandably you want Gnolls to be a race in your hb world, which none of us cam do anything about. However, in STANDARD D&D context, they are a creature, rather than a race. They are not a playable race, whereas orcs and goblins and even yuan ti are. This shows how Wotc messed up originally by labelling them as "humanoids". They aren't. Yuan ti, the emotionless snake people are, since they have their roots in human civilisations. Gnolls are just demonic hyenas.
I don't think anyone here is saying that they can't be a humanoid race in your homebrew setting. But you seem to have misconceived the STANDARD D&D classification of them: just tools of a demon lord. If they were the spawn of an archangel instead, would you still see a problem with their holiness and complete lack of evil?
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
Just to poke back into this thread.....if you want a 3rd parties take on playable Gnolls have a look into Koblod Press, they have a series of articles on Gnolls in their 5e compatible setting, link here: https://koboldpress.com/gnasty-gnolls-lore-and-adventurers/
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* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
Just to poke back into this thread.....if you want a 3rd parties take on playable Gnolls have a look into Koblod Press, they have a series of articles on Gnolls in their 5e compatible setting, link here: https://koboldpress.com/gnasty-gnolls-lore-and-adventurers/
Interesting read, thanks. Very hyena based, for obvious reasons. And more varied, less monolithic than the official 5e story, even if they maintain the demonic heritage thing. Adding vultures as something they raise and care for is interesting; sure, they should have animals besides hyenas, like vultures, maybe some snakes or scorpions or whatever else fits their environment. More so, since I consided a form of druidic faith to be their core religion.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Well, I thought that gnolls were hyenas who were given humanoid form and insatiable hunger in order to spread Yeenoghu's destruction and to feed his hunger. They are practically demons and they are filled with such horrible hunger that they can't hold a conversation without trying to eat the other person alive. This severely limits their societal growth. However, if you want you can change this and make them more interesting.
In African mythology, there are many monsters that are based on hyenas. Really it isn't surprising. Hyenas are dangerous beasts with bone crunching jaws, often caked in blood and gore, that fill the night with their cackling. No wonder people thought they were monsters. Here are a few hyena themed creatures.
There was the Nandi bear, a creature that came from the Nandi people. The Nandi Bear is said to be a giant bear that can stand on its hind legs, has a hyena-like face, and reddish fur. Its claws are long, and it has high shoulders and a sloping back. Sometimes they are also described as having six-digits, and a single eye. It is said to scalp people, and eat their brains. The Nandi bear is considered to be a cryptid, and many believe it actually exists. Because of its brain eating habits, I would say that this creature would make a good mind flayer related Dnd monster. Maybe mind flayers have infected gnolls or hyenas, causing them to mutate and become hideous monsters who attack on sight and eat the brains of their victims. Then, when the bear has aged to the point of near death, it travels to the elder brain and falls into its pool, dissolving and giving it all the nutrients from the brains that it has collected.
There are also creatures that I will call Hyenaweres (I forget the real name). They aren't werehyenas, because hyenaweres are hyenas that become human, not humans that become hyenas. They are said to take the role of magic users, and one account tells of a man that would rub himself with a stick to become a hyena at night, and then rub himself with the stick again to become a human in the morning. Hyenaweres do attack people, and their favorite prey are lovers. People really did believe in this monster though, and some thought that there were whole villages with the population made up of hyenaweres. These creatures could be gnolls who are gifted with magic. They use their powers to make themselves blend in with the crowd and conceal their fearsome appearance.
The Kishi is a strange beast that acts similarly to a succubus. They look like humans and lure others in, and then reveal that they have a hyena mouth on the back of their head. They then proceed to devour their victims with the hyena mouth on the back of their head which is as strong as a normal hyenas bite (incredibly strong). Seductive hyena demons.
Vampiric hyenas are also a thing. Greeks believed that if a dead werewolf's body was not destroyed, then it would transform into a vampiric hyena and haunt battlefields, sucking the blood from dead and wounded soldiers. Others thought that was what hyenas did normally.
I also remember reading a tale about a hyena that wanted to scare someone (as if they aren't scary enough) so he did the obvious prankster move. He took off his skin, exposing the slimy muscles, white bones, and pulsing veins underneath, such a classic trickster move. This terrified his target, but it also left the hyenas soft, fleshy, vital bits exposed and he was easily killed.
Dnd already has gnolls, so these could easily be used to spice them up. Maybe giving them some extra powers and monsters that fight for them. I personally would love to see the look on a player's face when the gnoll they are fighting decides to take off its skin. I think that would lower its armor class, but it should make the players get the frightened condition. Then, once the gnoll has been killed and they leave the crime scene, they hear rumors of a vampiric hyena that has been attacking travelers at night. (Always dispose of the body) Later they find out that the neighboring gnoll tribe has made an alliance with a mind flayer colony, and now Nandi Bears are wreaking havoc.
I'm still doing some reading on this but have found a refernce to a Diety called Gorellik who taught Gnolls to respect power and force and this led to his downfall and the Gnolls going off to worship other entities, link to wiki here: https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/Gorellik
So you could have a world where Gnolls still revere Gorellik, they would still be Chaotic Evil but you have an alternative entity they worship. Poweful leaders rise and bring everyone in line, possibly bringing some sembalnce of law to the chaos of the normal way of life, until the leader dies and then the united gnolls disperse into rival factions until a new powerful leader rises and the cycle repeats.....kind of like Orks in Warhammer 40k, which means you could have Gnoll Spellcasters being Weirdboy-esque and Gnoll Artificers being a bit Mekboy-esque in nature and no-one is quite sure why or how their magic and inventions work, they just do.
Re The_Summoning_Dark's refernce to Hyenawere's above, if you wanted to use those you could use the Jackalwere in the Monster Manual to represent those with a small tweak to lore descriptions.
Good stuff, thanks, I like the hyenaweres. The stick-rubbing is interesting, maybe it could be some sort of magical fetish - I wonder, maybe it's something the gnolls offer to slaves they particularly like, so they can be sort of half-gnoll.
Gorellik also sounds interesting. Like I said, my main gnoll faith is a druidic survival-of-the-fittest thing, gory to the eyeballs, but there's certainly room for more than one deity. My homebrew world doesn't just have many - it has all the religions.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Sometimes a narrative simply calls for antagonists that exist to be uncritically opposed and slain.
That's a crappy narrative though
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It's a little one-sided, right? And .. once you've slain whatever constitutes a sufficient number, not a lot you can do with it then. It's like: 'Yup, narrative's done, you killed them all.' And right as that conversation stops, a wounded stranger stumbles into the taproom, a panicked cry on his lips: 'The borgs! The borgs are coming!'
I admit that I mostly consider mind flayers to be beyond redemption (like, on a largely unrelated note) - but for that very reason, I'm proud that I once had one that fought the PC's to a stalemate, and it ended in a sort of uneasy truce. It promised to only enslave volunteers. And then everyone was like, shrugged and went: 'Well - it's not ideal, but we'll take it ... because this whole area is now a blasted hellscape, so let's maybe just live and let live.'
Marketing is hard when you're a tentacle-faced brain eater, but total bliss sells, we all know this to be true.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
It's a little one-sided, right? And .. once you've slain whatever constitutes a sufficient number, not a lot you can do with it then. It's like: 'Yup, narrative's done, you killed them all.' And right as that conversation stops, a wounded stranger stumbles into the taproom, a panicked cry on his lips: 'The borgs! The borgs are coming!'
I admit that I mostly consider mind flayers to be beyond redemption (like, on a largely unrelated note) - but for that very reason, I'm proud that I once had one that fought the PC's to a stalemate, and it ended in a sort of uneasy truce. It promised to only enslave volunteers. And then everyone was like, shrugged and went: 'Well - it's not ideal, but we'll take it ... because this whole area is now a blasted hellscape, so let's maybe just live and let live.'
Gnolls and Kruthik have similar niches in that they exist to destroy societies. And sometimes survival is the narrative, or at least the setting against which the protagonists' struggles are magnified. You could, quite easily, replay Aliens with the characters as the marines investigating a small settlement and the gnolls as the xenomorphs, and still have a good story. The xeno queen was clearly intelligent enough to recognize a threat/bargain when she saw one. The gnolls must collect food- if they run out, the weakest gnoll becomes food, and that makes the pack less capable of gathering food, leading to a death spiral. If they have extra food, they feed their hyenas in a ritual to create more gnolls.
Gnolls and Kruthik have similar niches in that they exist to destroy societies. And sometimes survival is the narrative, or at least the setting against which the protagonists' struggles are magnified. You could, quite easily, replay Aliens with the characters as the marines investigating a small settlement and the gnolls as the xenomorphs, and still have a good story. The xeno queen was clearly intelligent enough to recognize a threat/bargain when she saw one.
The gnolls must collect food- if they run out, the weakest gnoll becomes food, and that makes the pack less capable of gathering food, leading to a death spiral. In my setting, a battle for control of a pack is sacred single combat that ends with 1 chief and one undead witherling. The witherling gathers necrotic energy with each of its kills. Eventually, the chief commands their hyena pack to eat the witherling when it has gathered enough power. These hyenas then become new gnolls. This gives them a grotesque caricature of a life cycle that reinforces their need to constantly predate.
Gnolls and Kruthik have similar niches in that they exist to destroy societies. And sometimes survival is the narrative, or at least the setting against which the protagonists' struggles are magnified. You could, quite easily, replay Aliens with the characters as the marines investigating a small settlement and the gnolls as the xenomorphs, and still have a good story. The xeno queen was clearly intelligent enough to recognize a threat/bargain when she saw one.
The gnolls must collect food- if they run out, the weakest gnoll becomes food, and that makes the pack less capable of gathering food, leading to a death spiral. In my setting, a battle for control of a pack is sacred single combat that ends with 1 chief and one undead witherling. The witherling gathers necrotic energy with each of its kills. Eventually, the chief commands their hyena pack to eat the witherling when it has gathered enough power. These hyenas then become new gnolls. This gives them a grotesque caricature of a life cycle that reinforces their need to constantly predate.
Interesting. In an old homebrew world of mine, that's quite similar to how goblins procreate. Goblins - in that world - were created by hags, in a cauldron. They'd only be able to create one, but that goblin would, the master goblin. But the goblin master could create more, by corrupting human babies.
Eh, they were quite horrible creatures. Now I use goblins much more widely, as a slightly comic relief sideshow type character. I think I like that better. When I was younger, I wanted my games to be gory and scary - now I want them to be interesting, and fun =)
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
You could, quite easily, replay Aliens with the characters as the marines investigating a small settlement and the gnolls as the xenomorphs, and still have a good story.
You realize the xenomorphs are not the actual villains in Aliens, right?
If you want to treat gnolls are something more akin to a force of nature than an intelligent species, that's fine, but that's not actually a story -- or at least, not a good one, unless it's just one element of the larger narrative
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Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I find your interpretation of gnolls in your homebrew world to be quite intriguing. It's refreshing to see a different take on a race that is often portrayed as mindlessly destructive in traditional fantasy settings. Your inclusion of cultural elements such as child rearing, religious practices, and art adds depth and complexity to the gnolls, making them a more interesting and well-rounded race.
I particularly like the dynamic between the male and female gnolls in your society. The male-dominated society with violent competition among the males, contrasted with the females controlling most other aspects, creates an interesting power dynamic. It's also fascinating how the breeding cycle of the gnolls directly influences their raiding and hunting activities, giving a logical explanation for their behavior.
The emphasis on craftsmanship and the use of exceptional materials in gnoll culture is a nice touch. It adds a layer of uniqueness and showcases their resourcefulness in utilizing what they have available to create powerful and noteworthy items.
I appreciate the inclusion of their religious beliefs, which align with their survival instincts and the concept of "might makes right." It adds depth to their motivations and worldview.
Overall, your portrayal of gnolls in your homebrew world is a refreshing departure from the typical mindless destructive creatures often seen in fantasy. Your attention to detail and the thought put into their culture and society make them a much more interesting and engaging race. Well done!
Why thank you =)
I particularly like the breeding cycle too. Like The_Murgen said, they're kinda like the Alien: At the same time each year, a whole slew of young are born, and they grow super quickly, and have ferocious appetites. So in a way, you almost can't blame the gnolls for hustling to keep up - even though it's at the expense of other innocents.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
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Yeenhogu is not a god, he is a demon lord. In older editions there were Gnolls linked to a hyena god, yeenhogu and both and some escaped demonic chains. In ebberon many Gnolls escaped fiendish chains and became a unified mercenary swarm. Gnolls are to be hated when connected to fiends and in awe when they escape and start slaying fiends. Gnolls are BEST redemption arc ever.
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It's not a failing. I'm not saying you have to enjoy or use the trope, but it is a valid one to write from. Not every other form of being in the cosmos has to be socially compatible with others so that they can "come to town to trade", as it were. The appeal of the Borg as a narrative point in Star Trek TNG was that there was no reasoning with them or finding common ground. They either assimilated you or destroyed you outright and that was that. No deep and nuanced backstory or justification, it was just what they were and what they did. In a setting that usually plays with nuance and circumstance and suchlike, the challenge of a race that's completely outside that frame of reference was new and interesting for the setting. While some later materials diverged from that point, those materials arguably diluted the impact of the Borg.
It is a failing. It's a copout. It's weak, pathetic writing that creates 2-dimensional enemies, 2-dimensional stories - and seems to satisfy a lot of consumers of books, movies, computer games who simply want empty calories. Their loss.
The borg are not the exception you seem to think they are. Their background is as deep as that of the klingons - not that I have an exact word count.
But you're wrong. Every race 'comes to town to trade' - as it were - once in a while, because no race is entirely self-sufficient. So everyone, basically without exception, occasionally visits other races, to fill their grain stores, or buy ingots, or silk, or spice, or cutlery. Even mind flayers or drow (although they may not come in person). Possibly not dragons, liches, cthonian elder beings and elemental princes. But everyone else.
I can see why someone might not want to explain where some enemy race - could be gnolls, orcs, goblins, giants, ogres, whatever - get their food from, where their farms are. But it is literally impossible for any living thing to indefinitely sustain itself solely on raiding. So either you're lazy, or you decide what a race does in ... downtime. And that's what I'm doing.
I'm not saying you have to enjoy it, or agree with it. But that's why this thread.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
It's objectively possible for a living being sustain itself solely on predation. Case in point: literally every predator species in existence.
And that's because prey animals don't organise counter raids, and murder you where you sleep.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Right. Lets see a group of villagers try raiding an illithid compound, or a gnoll camp. Honestly, both groups would probably be enthusiastic about the idea. It's like Doordash; the food comes to you. Humanoids are not the apex predators of a classic D&D setting; the majority of the population amounts to fodder if even a moderate CR monster rolls through, and if something like a ancient dragon, elder brain, or gnoll warband sets its sights on anything short of a decently sized fortified city, they're just straight up done for unless high level adventurers or an equivalent force are around.
Look, like I've said, if you want to make every being in your setting functionally a human with a rubber forehead or big ears or whatever, go for it. But it is objectively not poor writing to explore alien mindsets sufficiently divorced from the only one we have real-world experience with that mutual coexistence is not possible. As far as "no race being self-sufficient" goes, killing you and taking your stuff works pretty well for self-sufficiency, if they can pull it off. Again, that was Borg 101, and before a bunch of secondary material got added after the fact that was the entire crux of the conflict. The Borg had, via assimilation, attained a base tech level so far ahead of anyone in the Alpha or Beta Quadrant that without Q giving the Enterprise a heads up about their existence and capabilities, they'd have assimilated them too and gone on unchecked. And, as a cursory glance through the Monster Manual or MotM will clearly demonstrate, the same basic dynamic is entirely within the realm of possibility for several non-humanoid antagonist races, by the numbers. A commoner has 4 HP; pretty much any attack connects, they're dead. Guards, which cover both things like town watch and basic foot soldiers, have 11 HP; gnolls have 22. You put guards against even just basic gnolls with anything less than 2 to 1 numbers in their favor, and it's a foregone conclusion.
The idea that there's no way a monstrous race can support themselves by raiding and oppression is seriously contradicted by their capabilities. To return to the Borg example again, the original massive climactic battle against them only featured a single Borg cube, and it took a decent portion of protagonist power for the Enterprise to pull a win in the final seconds after it had already smashed 40 ships in one go. Granted, comparing capabilities is a white room exercise and anything further gets into "my imaginary friend can beat up yours" as it's based on worldbuilding, but the idea that a singularly hostile monstrous race could not possibly survive in the D&D setting doesn't hold up. The capability objectively exists within the material, it's just a matter of whether or not any given setting allows it to play out. To reiterate, none of this means you have to play a race in this manner, but by the same token this manner is not invalid either as a narrative point or as a viable possibility with the mechanics of the system.
That is, in fact, precisely what they are. I cannot point to a single setting where humans don't rule the world, and while there are individual monsters that are more powerful than individual dirtfarmers, the monsters are invariably reduced to troves of treasure and xp.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Acromos, understandably you want Gnolls to be a race in your hb world, which none of us cam do anything about. However, in STANDARD D&D context, they are a creature, rather than a race. They are not a playable race, whereas orcs and goblins and even yuan ti are. This shows how Wotc messed up originally by labelling them as "humanoids". They aren't. Yuan ti, the emotionless snake people are, since they have their roots in human civilisations. Gnolls are just demonic hyenas.
I don't think anyone here is saying that they can't be a humanoid race in your homebrew setting. But you seem to have misconceived the STANDARD D&D classification of them: just tools of a demon lord. If they were the spawn of an archangel instead, would you still see a problem with their holiness and complete lack of evil?
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
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Just to poke back into this thread.....if you want a 3rd parties take on playable Gnolls have a look into Koblod Press, they have a series of articles on Gnolls in their 5e compatible setting, link here: https://koboldpress.com/gnasty-gnolls-lore-and-adventurers/
Interesting read, thanks. Very hyena based, for obvious reasons. And more varied, less monolithic than the official 5e story, even if they maintain the demonic heritage thing. Adding vultures as something they raise and care for is interesting; sure, they should have animals besides hyenas, like vultures, maybe some snakes or scorpions or whatever else fits their environment. More so, since I consided a form of druidic faith to be their core religion.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Well, I thought that gnolls were hyenas who were given humanoid form and insatiable hunger in order to spread Yeenoghu's destruction and to feed his hunger. They are practically demons and they are filled with such horrible hunger that they can't hold a conversation without trying to eat the other person alive. This severely limits their societal growth. However, if you want you can change this and make them more interesting.
In African mythology, there are many monsters that are based on hyenas. Really it isn't surprising. Hyenas are dangerous beasts with bone crunching jaws, often caked in blood and gore, that fill the night with their cackling. No wonder people thought they were monsters. Here are a few hyena themed creatures.
There was the Nandi bear, a creature that came from the Nandi people. The Nandi Bear is said to be a giant bear that can stand on its hind legs, has a hyena-like face, and reddish fur. Its claws are long, and it has high shoulders and a sloping back. Sometimes they are also described as having six-digits, and a single eye. It is said to scalp people, and eat their brains. The Nandi bear is considered to be a cryptid, and many believe it actually exists. Because of its brain eating habits, I would say that this creature would make a good mind flayer related Dnd monster. Maybe mind flayers have infected gnolls or hyenas, causing them to mutate and become hideous monsters who attack on sight and eat the brains of their victims. Then, when the bear has aged to the point of near death, it travels to the elder brain and falls into its pool, dissolving and giving it all the nutrients from the brains that it has collected.
There are also creatures that I will call Hyenaweres (I forget the real name). They aren't werehyenas, because hyenaweres are hyenas that become human, not humans that become hyenas. They are said to take the role of magic users, and one account tells of a man that would rub himself with a stick to become a hyena at night, and then rub himself with the stick again to become a human in the morning. Hyenaweres do attack people, and their favorite prey are lovers. People really did believe in this monster though, and some thought that there were whole villages with the population made up of hyenaweres. These creatures could be gnolls who are gifted with magic. They use their powers to make themselves blend in with the crowd and conceal their fearsome appearance.
The Kishi is a strange beast that acts similarly to a succubus. They look like humans and lure others in, and then reveal that they have a hyena mouth on the back of their head. They then proceed to devour their victims with the hyena mouth on the back of their head which is as strong as a normal hyenas bite (incredibly strong). Seductive hyena demons.
Vampiric hyenas are also a thing. Greeks believed that if a dead werewolf's body was not destroyed, then it would transform into a vampiric hyena and haunt battlefields, sucking the blood from dead and wounded soldiers. Others thought that was what hyenas did normally.
I also remember reading a tale about a hyena that wanted to scare someone (as if they aren't scary enough) so he did the obvious prankster move. He took off his skin, exposing the slimy muscles, white bones, and pulsing veins underneath, such a classic trickster move. This terrified his target, but it also left the hyenas soft, fleshy, vital bits exposed and he was easily killed.
Dnd already has gnolls, so these could easily be used to spice them up. Maybe giving them some extra powers and monsters that fight for them. I personally would love to see the look on a player's face when the gnoll they are fighting decides to take off its skin. I think that would lower its armor class, but it should make the players get the frightened condition. Then, once the gnoll has been killed and they leave the crime scene, they hear rumors of a vampiric hyena that has been attacking travelers at night. (Always dispose of the body) Later they find out that the neighboring gnoll tribe has made an alliance with a mind flayer colony, and now Nandi Bears are wreaking havoc.
I'm still doing some reading on this but have found a refernce to a Diety called Gorellik who taught Gnolls to respect power and force and this led to his downfall and the Gnolls going off to worship other entities, link to wiki here: https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/Gorellik
So you could have a world where Gnolls still revere Gorellik, they would still be Chaotic Evil but you have an alternative entity they worship. Poweful leaders rise and bring everyone in line, possibly bringing some sembalnce of law to the chaos of the normal way of life, until the leader dies and then the united gnolls disperse into rival factions until a new powerful leader rises and the cycle repeats.....kind of like Orks in Warhammer 40k, which means you could have Gnoll Spellcasters being Weirdboy-esque and Gnoll Artificers being a bit Mekboy-esque in nature and no-one is quite sure why or how their magic and inventions work, they just do.
Re The_Summoning_Dark's refernce to Hyenawere's above, if you wanted to use those you could use the Jackalwere in the Monster Manual to represent those with a small tweak to lore descriptions.
EDIT: also foudn this wiki: https://greyhawkonline.com/greyhawkwiki/Gnoll which gois into a small amount of detail about Gnoll society.
EDIT to the EDIT:...I also found this blog which covers a few interesting bits through the various editions of D&D: https://thecampaign20xx.blogspot.com/2017/12/dungeons-dragons-guide-to-gnolls.html
Good stuff, thanks, I like the hyenaweres. The stick-rubbing is interesting, maybe it could be some sort of magical fetish - I wonder, maybe it's something the gnolls offer to slaves they particularly like, so they can be sort of half-gnoll.
Gorellik also sounds interesting. Like I said, my main gnoll faith is a druidic survival-of-the-fittest thing, gory to the eyeballs, but there's certainly room for more than one deity. My homebrew world doesn't just have many - it has all the religions.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
That's a crappy narrative though
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's a little one-sided, right? And .. once you've slain whatever constitutes a sufficient number, not a lot you can do with it then. It's like: 'Yup, narrative's done, you killed them all.' And right as that conversation stops, a wounded stranger stumbles into the taproom, a panicked cry on his lips: 'The borgs! The borgs are coming!'
I admit that I mostly consider mind flayers to be beyond redemption (like, on a largely unrelated note) - but for that very reason, I'm proud that I once had one that fought the PC's to a stalemate, and it ended in a sort of uneasy truce. It promised to only enslave volunteers. And then everyone was like, shrugged and went: 'Well - it's not ideal, but we'll take it ... because this whole area is now a blasted hellscape, so let's maybe just live and let live.'
Marketing is hard when you're a tentacle-faced brain eater, but total bliss sells, we all know this to be true.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Gnolls and Kruthik have similar niches in that they exist to destroy societies. And sometimes survival is the narrative, or at least the setting against which the protagonists' struggles are magnified. You could, quite easily, replay Aliens with the characters as the marines investigating a small settlement and the gnolls as the xenomorphs, and still have a good story. The xeno queen was clearly intelligent enough to recognize a threat/bargain when she saw one.
The gnolls must collect food- if they run out, the weakest gnoll becomes food, and that makes the pack less capable of gathering food, leading to a death spiral. In my setting, a battle for control of a pack is sacred single combat that ends with 1 chief and one undead witherling. The witherling gathers necrotic energy with each of its kills. Eventually, the chief commands their hyena pack to eat the witherling when it has gathered enough power. These hyenas then become new gnolls. This gives them a grotesque caricature of a life cycle that reinforces their need to constantly predate.
Interesting. In an old homebrew world of mine, that's quite similar to how goblins procreate. Goblins - in that world - were created by hags, in a cauldron. They'd only be able to create one, but that goblin would, the master goblin. But the goblin master could create more, by corrupting human babies.
Eh, they were quite horrible creatures. Now I use goblins much more widely, as a slightly comic relief sideshow type character. I think I like that better. When I was younger, I wanted my games to be gory and scary - now I want them to be interesting, and fun =)
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
You realize the xenomorphs are not the actual villains in Aliens, right?
If you want to treat gnolls are something more akin to a force of nature than an intelligent species, that's fine, but that's not actually a story -- or at least, not a good one, unless it's just one element of the larger narrative
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Why thank you =)
I particularly like the breeding cycle too. Like The_Murgen said, they're kinda like the Alien: At the same time each year, a whole slew of young are born, and they grow super quickly, and have ferocious appetites. So in a way, you almost can't blame the gnolls for hustling to keep up - even though it's at the expense of other innocents.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.